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Creighton and the Big East
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darkdragon99 Offline
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Post: #1
Creighton and the Big East
So Creighton embarassed the Big East by getting killed by a football school. Now obviously the Big East doesnt regret getting Creighton because they are Catholic and they fill their big arena but if they think Creighton is gonna be a standard-bearer for their conference year after year they may be disapointed. Villanova and Georgetown are still gonna have to lead the way and they have to pray for St. John's to return to relevance.
(This post was last modified: 03-24-2014 09:22 AM by darkdragon99.)
03-24-2014 09:17 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Creighton and the Big East
Not saying it would have made a difference because Baylor was far superior, but how in the hell does a 6 seed get to play in their own backyard?
03-24-2014 09:25 AM
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darkdragon99 Offline
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RE: Creighton and the Big East
Nebraska-Omaha is D1 now and The Cornhuskers made the tournament this year. Creighton has competiton in state now.
03-24-2014 09:37 AM
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bigblueblindness Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Creighton and the Big East
(03-24-2014 09:17 AM)darkdragon99 Wrote:  So Creighton embarassed the Big East by getting killed by a football school. Now obviously the Big East doesnt regret getting Creighton because they are Catholic and they fill their big arena but if they think Creighton is gonna be a standard-bearer for their conference year after year they may be disapointed. Villanova and Georgetown are still gonna have to lead the way and they have to pray for St. John's to return to relevance.

Calling Baylor a football school would have put you in the loony bin a decade ago. If you haven't noticed, they have been good at basketball for a few years now.
03-24-2014 09:45 AM
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bigblueblindness Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Creighton and the Big East
(03-24-2014 09:25 AM)esayem Wrote:  Not saying it would have made a difference because Baylor was far superior, but how in the hell does a 6 seed get to play in their own backyard?

The rest of the non-North Carolina based ACC has been asking the same question for years concerning the ACC Tournament.
03-24-2014 09:46 AM
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RE: Creighton and the Big East
I though Baylor was a women's basketball school. :)
03-24-2014 09:51 AM
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john01992 Offline
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RE: Creighton and the Big East
the writing has been on the wall for quite awhile. in this day in age you need the wealth/exposure that football brings to be competitive in basketball.

in the last 20 years only 2 schools have made the ncaa title game without having an FBS team (uconn & butler).

on top we have seen umass/uconn move up and nova tried to move up as well.

the (new) big east is part of a dying breed and the only thing the C7 accomplished in the past 15-20 years with the big east was delaying what will be their inevitable downfall.
03-24-2014 10:21 AM
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Post: #8
RE: Creighton and the Big East
(03-24-2014 10:21 AM)john01992 Wrote:  the writing has been on the wall for quite awhile. in this day in age you need the wealth/exposure that football brings to be competitive in basketball.

in the last 20 years only 2 schools have made the ncaa title game without having an FBS team (uconn & butler).

on top we have seen umass/uconn move up and nova tried to move up as well.

the (new) big east is part of a dying breed and the only thing the C7 accomplished in the past 15-20 years with the big east was delaying what will be their inevitable downfall.

There's been a dramatic shift towards the power conference teams in the last 20 years. With increased revenues, it will probably become more pronounced. The new Big East is an attempt to break that mold. Remains to be seen whether it works, but its a good effort.
03-24-2014 10:53 AM
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1845 Bear Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Creighton and the Big East
(03-24-2014 10:21 AM)john01992 Wrote:  the writing has been on the wall for quite awhile. in this day in age you need the wealth/exposure that football brings to be competitive in basketball.

in the last 20 years only 2 schools have made the ncaa title game without having an FBS team (uconn & butler).

on top we have seen umass/uconn move up and nova tried to move up as well.

the (new) big east is part of a dying breed and the only thing the C7 accomplished in the past 15-20 years with the big east was delaying what will be their inevitable downfall.

I disagree. Assuming you can make up for some of the budget elsewhere they will still be fine. Their athletic budgets are in the 20-30mm ranges even before the FOX deal starts paying them 4 million each. That kind of budget is right behind where the middle tier of the AAC & MWC are WITH football. The C7 will be fine enough financially IMO.
03-24-2014 10:53 AM
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mlb Offline
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RE: Creighton and the Big East
Financially the Big East schools will be fine. The question is how will they recruit without the ESPN promotion machine behind them? They already lost a coach to it.
03-24-2014 10:56 AM
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10thMountain Offline
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RE: Creighton and the Big East
Quote:by a football school.

Art has done a masterful job resurrecting the Bear FB program, but lets not be too hasty here! 03-wink
03-24-2014 10:58 AM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Creighton and the Big East
(03-24-2014 10:21 AM)john01992 Wrote:  the writing has been on the wall for quite awhile. in this day in age you need the wealth/exposure that football brings to be competitive in basketball.

in the last 20 years only 2 schools have made the ncaa title game without having an FBS team (uconn & butler).


Yeah but some of the others schools that did make it, only have a football team in name only. Memphis, Kentucky, UNLV, Duke, to name a few (albeit the last one has improved). Also, those schools actually make more money from basketball than football.

But in reality it is just a simple math equation. The schools that have the most money, field football teams. They have the biggest advantages. There are only a few big money schools (or decent sized anyway) that don't play football, and they are almost all located in the Big East. And for the most part, they have been successful.

It's less about having football (as often that money is reinvested in football anyway) and more about simply having money and exposure, which are in the biggest schools. Who all play football.
(This post was last modified: 03-24-2014 11:03 AM by adcorbett.)
03-24-2014 11:01 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Creighton and the Big East
(03-24-2014 10:21 AM)john01992 Wrote:  in the last 20 years only 2 schools have made the ncaa title game without having an FBS team (uconn & butler).

That's a distortion. Non-FBS programs have been doing well in the NCAAs. In the last 5 years, there have been 5 Final Four teams from schools that don't have FBS football:

2009 - Villanova
2010 - Butler
2011 - Butler and VCU
2013 - Wichita State
03-24-2014 11:02 AM
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RE: Creighton and the Big East
UConn and Butler are the only schools who won't be in the P5 next year to make the championship game since 1990.
From 1976-1990 UNLV, Seton Hall, Villanova, Georgetown (3 times), Indiana St., Marquette and Houston (twice) made the championship game.
In the UCLA era, UTEP, Marquette, Villanova, Dayton, Jacksonville, UTEP, Memphis and FSU (who wasn't a power football school at the time) made the championship game along with UCLA 10 times and 7 P5 schools (UNC, Duke, NCSU, Michigan, Purdue and UK twice).
Prior to that 19 of the 50 (and a higher % subsequent to WWII) in the finals aren't P5 schools now.
03-24-2014 11:05 AM
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adcorbett Offline
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RE: Creighton and the Big East
Bullet what Wedge is referring to is that you are using a one game separator. The other difference is they played less games to get that far in the time frame separated. In the NCAA tournament, outside of champions, the Final Four is typically used as the barometer. And using that barometer, there isn't a drastic difference in how far teams without football teams have fared.
03-24-2014 11:08 AM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Creighton and the Big East
(03-24-2014 11:02 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(03-24-2014 10:21 AM)john01992 Wrote:  in the last 20 years only 2 schools have made the ncaa title game without having an FBS team (uconn & butler).

That's a distortion. Non-FBS programs have been doing well in the NCAAs. In the last 5 years, there have been 5 Final Four teams from schools that don't have FBS football:

2009 - Villanova
2010 - Butler
2011 - Butler and VCU
2013 - Wichita State

you wanna talk about distortion.......look at your post. go back another 5 years........

2008 ==> all FBS teams
2007 ==> gtown
2006 ==> george mason
2005 ==> all FBS teams
2004 ==> all FBS teams

and do gtown & nova really count? they may not be FBS but their brand & exposure in that era was built up by being the only FCS schools in a BCS conference.
03-24-2014 11:10 AM
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john01992 Offline
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RE: Creighton and the Big East
(03-24-2014 10:53 AM)S11 Wrote:  
(03-24-2014 10:21 AM)john01992 Wrote:  the writing has been on the wall for quite awhile. in this day in age you need the wealth/exposure that football brings to be competitive in basketball.

in the last 20 years only 2 schools have made the ncaa title game without having an FBS team (uconn & butler).

on top we have seen umass/uconn move up and nova tried to move up as well.

the (new) big east is part of a dying breed and the only thing the C7 accomplished in the past 15-20 years with the big east was delaying what will be their inevitable downfall.

I disagree. Assuming you can make up for some of the budget elsewhere they will still be fine. Their athletic budgets are in the 20-30mm ranges even before the FOX deal starts paying them 4 million each. That kind of budget is right behind where the middle tier of the AAC & MWC are WITH football. The C7 will be fine enough financially IMO.

imo i think what it comes down to is the exposure. that is ultimately what drives recruiting & donations and that's will the biggest sting will come from.

schools like gtown/nova will be able to survive. but the rest of the non BB schools are going to get absolutely crushed. and if gtown/nova keep losing their exposure with FS1 they too will fall on hard times.
03-24-2014 11:22 AM
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Post: #18
RE: Creighton and the Big East
(03-24-2014 11:08 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  Bullet what Wedge is referring to is that you are using a one game separator. The other difference is they played less games to get that far in the time frame separated. In the NCAA tournament, outside of champions, the Final Four is typically used as the barometer. And using that barometer, there isn't a drastic difference in how far teams without football teams have fared.

There is quite a difference post Tarkanian. There have only been 15 non-P5 schools in 23 years since 1991 and only 9 not FBS (I'm counting UConn as FBS all 4 years before you get nit-picky).
UConn-4
Memphis
Cincinnati
Marquette
Villanova
Georgetown
Butler-2
Wichita St.
VCU
UMass
George Mason
Butler-2
03-24-2014 11:25 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Creighton and the Big East
(03-24-2014 09:25 AM)esayem Wrote:  Not saying it would have made a difference because Baylor was far superior, but how in the hell does a 6 seed get to play in their own backyard?

It shouldn't happen. The higher seeds should always be protected, especially in the first round. To an extent, that usually benefits the really high seeds, like UF, Wisconsin, Duke, 'Cuse, UCLA, getting games in their home state, but it should dissipate across the field as it goes on.

But, you get games where it's truly neutral or favors the lower seed...that's not how it's supposed to happen. Like, why is UConn playing in the east as a 7 seed in a location that's almost neutral for them and whoever they would have played in the first weekend? I mean, my hat's off to them cutting through the Big 5 teams, but I don't think they should have been there to begin with, same as SJU. And for their troubles...now they spend next weekend in MSG? A 7 seed? ISU has their work cut out for them, and if UConn gets by them, so will the winner of MSU-UVA. And if it had worked to the ideal 1-2, Villanova was more the home team than UVA. Uhhh?

Obviously, after last season and all of those upsets, some evaluations needed to be made, but this year is really bad for seeding and venue selection. But, it's not loaded with big upsets, so it's getting it mostly right.
03-24-2014 11:27 AM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Creighton and the Big East
(03-24-2014 11:01 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  
(03-24-2014 10:21 AM)john01992 Wrote:  the writing has been on the wall for quite awhile. in this day in age you need the wealth/exposure that football brings to be competitive in basketball.

in the last 20 years only 2 schools have made the ncaa title game without having an FBS team (uconn & butler).


Yeah but some of the others schools that did make it, only have a football team in name only. Memphis, Kentucky, UNLV, Duke, to name a few (albeit the last one has improved). Also, those schools actually make more money from basketball than football.

But in reality it is just a simple math equation. The schools that have the most money, field football teams. They have the biggest advantages. There are only a few big money schools (or decent sized anyway) that don't play football, and they are almost all located in the Big East. And for the most part, they have been successful.

It's less about having football (as often that money is reinvested in football anyway) and more about simply having money and exposure, which are in the biggest schools. Who all play football.

and yet those schools still get major exposure from being in a major conference, an increase in tv payouts, & donations. plus they are relevant outside of the BB season.

having a 4-8 FBS team is still much better than being an FCS or non football school.
03-24-2014 11:37 AM
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