Let's face some facts here....

1) This whole crazy concept is NOT about football. In fact, hardly anything to do with football. It's writers and bloggers who have turned it in to this.

2) It's about academics. Giving kids with B to B+ grades an oppurtunity to go to a good school and not leave the State. As you can see, Illinois has some pretty hard requirements, pretty smart kids even if you exclude all the foreign exchange. The thought is to have a school with a level of admissions higher that NIU in the range of an Iowa, Indiana, MSU. How do you do that? Make the school better....more attractive...more research money coming...more donors... and ulimately, a better conference association does help.

3) NIU academically is nowhere near B10. In fact NIU is much closer to SIU, EIU and WIU than it is to even ISU! Say whatever you want, that NIU offers this that and the next thing, it's CHANCE. As someone on here says, numbers don't lie.NIU is dropping academically (maybe staying the same) other schools going up.

My belief...it's NEVER going to be an NIU. Nor a UIC, if only by Chicago.It's a comuter school, lesser academics. NIU seems destined to be an outlet for middle of the roadd to maybe average students, with plenty falling below average to lessen the value of the education. If you take away those kids, where are they going to go? Is the State going to make other schools bigger? ISU has some plusses. They would likely weed out some kids in a tradeoff to the likes of the directional schools. They have more room lateral movement. Issue would be proximity to UI. WIU would have to take on great growth, in the middle of nowhere. EIU is a hick town, close to UI. That leaves SIU and SIUE. Both are in 25k towns, and would have St. Louis market, which I think is a key. But are they going to get kids from across the river to come there? Be able to compete in an out of state market, take over UI downstate in any category?

To me, logic says new school. With the expansion of the Naperville-88 to 55 area I can see it in 25 years becoming even a bigger "little" brother to Chicago, I see it in that area. Honestly, this school IS need for CHICAGO AREA and ALL OF ILLINOIS. Frankly, ISU, NIU and the other directional schools mean ZERO when trying to get a job in Chicago with the influx of B10 kids that come to Chicago looking for jobs. This isn't about our team is better than yours, NIU's academics. Any school in talks can't hold it's own vs any B10 school. And vs Illinois? Not even close. You are an employer and a resume says NIU and UI, who you going to hire. You say NIU since"I am from NIU,,haha" well, jokes on us since that's what all the Illinois grads hiring, as well as smart HR people are saying. The gap in this state is growing at the college level, and it needs to stop.

ACT Scores
Composite English Math
25% 75% 25% 75% 25% 75%

Illinois
26 31 26 32 26 32
Indiana
24 29 23 30 24 29
Iowa
22 28 22 28 22 28
Michigan
28 32 28 34 27 33
Michigan State
23 28 22 29 23 28
Minnesota
25 30 24 31 25 30
Nebraska
22 29 21 29 22 29
Northwestern
31 34 31 35 32 35
Ohio State
26 30 25 32 26 31
Penn State
25 29 25 30 25 30
Purdue
24 30 23 30 25 31
Wisconsin
26 30 26 31 26 31

Northern Illinois

19 25 18 25 17 25

ISU

22 25 21 26 21 26

SIU

18 24 17 24 17 24

EIU

19 24 18 24 17 24

WIU

18 23 18 23 18 23

There is an interrelationship between sports and academics. That's been proven. Even if there weren't, if the goal is to get a school into the B1G there would need to be a big expansion in athletic facilities to handle it. NIU has the practice facilities built in football and the largest stadium which requires the least cost to expand to 40k or whatever the B1G would want. NIU's athletic facilities are further along than any of the others. The B1G says it requires AAU membership (yes, Notre Dame would be accepted but that exception applies only to Notre Dame). To do that you need more than ACT scores. You need research and graduate/professional offerings, the kind that you can only find at NIU and SIU. Neither are near the level of the B1G and the investment would be costly. NIU has the edge due to its athletic facilities and higher research activity, but I can understand the argument that SIU brings the STL market and there is already a B1G school in Chicago (despite how weak of a draw Northwestern has). Location could actually be a hindrance for NIU in discussions like this.

ISU, CSU, EIU and WIU are non starters for AAU membership. They don't have anything on the graduate level. No engineering school, law school, med school, and no research is done there. UIC has the professional offerings and high research activity but you'd have to start a football team and build facilities from scratch.

(03-25-2014 03:11 PM)Max Power Wrote:  There is an interrelationship between sports and academics. That's been proven. Even if there weren't, if the goal is to get a school into the B1G there would need to be a big expansion in athletic facilities to handle it. NIU has the practice facilities built in football and the largest stadium which requires the least cost to expand to 40k or whatever the B1G would want. NIU's athletic facilities are further along than any of the others. The B1G says it requires AAU membership (yes, Notre Dame would be accepted but that exception applies only to Notre Dame). To do that you need more than ACT scores. You need research and graduate/professional offerings, the kind that you can only find at NIU and SIU. Neither are near the level of the B1G and the investment would be costly. NIU has the edge due to its athletic facilities and higher research activity, but I can understand the argument that SIU brings the STL market and there is already a B1G school in Chicago (despite how weak of a draw Northwestern has). Location could actually be a hindrance for NIU in discussions like this.

ISU, CSU, EIU and WIU are non starters for AAU membership. They don't have anything on the graduate level. No engineering school, law school, med school, and no research is done there. UIC has the professional offerings and high research activity but you'd have to start a football team and build facilities from scratch.

What is it?

So kids are going to Iowa, Indiana just to watch football and basketball?

The logic is to have an academically better school. One above the current level of an NIU, ISU but below UI. If it was all about sports, B10 would have kicked NW out a long time ago. I am guessing it's much harder to changed standards drastically in a school and get funding than to spend maybe 25-50 million more than NIU would have to gain the same level of athletic facilities. And once they get to the B10, they get the football playoff and bowl money, they can do whatever they want. These schools will be getting 20 million dollars a year in no time from tv. Pretty soon a $20 million, let alone $8 million dollar athletic training facility for sports will be chump change.

I am getting sick of hearing about the Big 10 being this association of elite academic colleges, they are not. They are primarily a sports league. If Harvard, the elite of elite academic institutions wanted membership in the Big 10, it would be denied because the Big 10 would not want to give them a huge payday for having subpar sports teams. The AAU membership requirement is also bull*hit because they let Nebraska in knowing that they were in serious jeopardy of being kicked out of the AAU. If the ACC imploded the Big 10 would not be going after the academic elite programs like Duke and Virginia, they would be going for the football super powers of Florida State and Clemson. They would go after them because if the SEC got them, the Big 10 would fall further behind them. Is it just me or why is Jim Delany constantly comparing the Big 10 to the SEC or always seems to be competing with them? Oh yes, it is because of academics!

Applications were up at NIU after the Orange Bowl. The same happened at Valparaiso after Bryce Drew's shot, and at other schools with March runs. Donations spike too. Strong sports can be a boon for academics. Of course students aren't leaving for U Iowa just for sports. They offer a wide range of majors and extracurriculars and their academic reputation is strong. But sports is a component for many.

The stated goal is to get another Illinois university into the B1G. They're right that it appeals to students for the reasons I just mentioned. To get into the B1G, you need a 40k+ stadium, you need top of the line athletic facilities, you need high level research, you need expansive academic offerings and you need a solid reputation. It may be easier to get a public Ivy reputation off the bat by starting from scratch, but it's also far more expensive than just hiring some world renowned profs and researchers to head existing departments.

Northwestern has long been the academic pillar of the B1G. They put up with them like the SEC does for Vandy, and like the ACC did for Duke until Coach K came along, because it helps their prestige by association and strengthens their research networks. Of course the last 20 years they've been decent in football too.

Quote:I am guessing it's much harder to changed standards drastically in a school and get funding than to spend maybe 25-50 million more than NIU would have to gain the same level of athletic facilities. And once they get to the B10, they get the football playoff and bowl money, they can do whatever they want. These schools will be getting 20 million dollars a year in no time from tv. Pretty soon a $20 million, let alone $8 million dollar athletic training facility for sports will be chump change.

Going with building a Michigan State from scratch instead of expanding NIU (or SIU) would cost a lot more than $20-50 million.

That $20 million they get from TV is going right back into the budget. B1G athletic budgets range from $80MM-150MM.

(03-25-2014 04:35 PM)Kevin S Wrote:  I am getting sick of hearing about the Big 10 being this association of elite academic colleges, they are not. They are primarily a sports league. If Harvard, the elite of elite academic institutions wanted membership in the Big 10, it would be denied because the Big 10 would not want to give them a huge payday for having subpar sports teams. The AAU membership requirement is also bull*hit because they let Nebraska in knowing that they were in serious jeopardy of being kicked out of the AAU. If the ACC imploded the Big 10 would not be going after the academic elite programs like Duke and Virginia, they would be going for the football super powers of Florida State and Clemson. They would go after them because if the SEC got them, the Big 10 would fall further behind them. Is it just me or why is Jim Delany constantly comparing the Big 10 to the SEC or always seems to be competing with them? Oh yes, it is because of academics!

Still better than NIU.

Which is the entire point of this.

If anyone can't see the dropoff from UI to the next best thing is naive or lying to themselves. NIU keeps going at the pace it will be with EIU, SIU, who will soon be the Chicago States and Norhteastern Illinois who will soon enough be the equivalent of a GED.

(03-25-2014 04:35 PM)Kevin S Wrote:  I am getting sick of hearing about the Big 10 being this association of elite academic colleges, they are not. They are primarily a sports league. If Harvard, the elite of elite academic institutions wanted membership in the Big 10, it would be denied because the Big 10 would not want to give them a huge payday for having subpar sports teams. The AAU membership requirement is also bull*hit because they let Nebraska in knowing that they were in serious jeopardy of being kicked out of the AAU. If the ACC imploded the Big 10 would not be going after the academic elite programs like Duke and Virginia, they would be going for the football super powers of Florida State and Clemson. They would go after them because if the SEC got them, the Big 10 would fall further behind them. Is it just me or why is Jim Delany constantly comparing the Big 10 to the SEC or always seems to be competing with them? Oh yes, it is because of academics!

The other ACC schools the B1G was heavily linked with were North Carolina and Virginia, who both said no when they realized the ACC could remain intact.

Delaney is a UNC alum who would love nothing more than to bring his Tar Heels into the B1G, but that's not going to happen, at least not in the foreseeable future.

(03-25-2014 04:40 PM)Max Power Wrote:  Applications were up at NIU after the Orange Bowl. The same happened at Valparaiso after Bryce Drew's shot, and at other schools with March runs. Donations spike too. Strong sports can be a boon for academics. Of course students aren't leaving for U Iowa just for sports. They offer a wide range of majors and extracurriculars and their academic reputation is strong. But sports is a component for many.

The stated goal is to get another Illinois university into the B1G. They're right that it appeals to students for the reasons I just mentioned. To get into the B1G, you need a 40k+ stadium, you need top of the line athletic facilities, you need high level research, you need expansive academic offerings and you need a solid reputation. It may be easier to get a public Ivy reputation off the bat by starting from scratch, but it's also far more expensive than just hiring some world renowned profs and researchers to head existing departments.

Northwestern has long been the academic pillar of the B1G. They put up with them like the SEC does for Vandy, and like the ACC did for Duke until Coach K came along, because it helps their prestige by association and strengthens their research networks. Of course the last 20 years they've been decent in football too.

Quote:I am guessing it's much harder to changed standards drastically in a school and get funding than to spend maybe 25-50 million more than NIU would have to gain the same level of athletic facilities. And once they get to the B10, they get the football playoff and bowl money, they can do whatever they want. These schools will be getting 20 million dollars a year in no time from tv. Pretty soon a $20 million, let alone $8 million dollar athletic training facility for sports will be chump change.

Going with building a Michigan State from scratch instead of expanding NIU (or SIU) would cost a lot more than $20-50 million.

That $20 million they get from TV is going right back into the budget. B1G athletic budgets range from $80MM-150MM.

Basically to say NIU is far superior to it's State counterparts is like saying Mercury is closer to the Sun vs all the other planets. Together, a solar sytsem away from B10. Big picture, the cost of any other or even new school is minimal in realm of things.

Did admission standards dramatically go at BC, NIU or Valpo go up after these events? Of course not. They are next to meaningless in the realm f these universitie academically.

And yes, the money goes back in. They re-invest.

And if you really want to talk about the worth of football, other than the elite, they are LOSING money. That's where the "subsidies" come in. In 2012, all but 7 schools subsidized their athletics. Endowment funds, research make the world go round for most, a concept that is hard to conceive.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/s.../finances/

(03-25-2014 08:10 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  It's an interesting discussion as a long term goal of the State. If it happens, it's probably a 100 year project to get full value.

The only way this happens is probably to force UIC to be this school, or to build a new University from the ground up, maybe in the Quad Cities area to not only gather IL students to poach from MN, IA and WI as well.

It's definitely a long range activity. UIC has a slight head start to being #2, but that gap could be closed in relatively short order by any institution given the rope needed to do so. Like a lot of things, it's a matter of political will to take one of the schools and repurpose it into the #2. It would pretty much be a blood battle between the schools if it actually were going to be real.

Building from the ground up probably wouldn't happen- but if a Knox or Augustana or one of the better little colleges happened to have a financial hiccup, I can imagine a buyout/expansion happening. Then you almost have a MiamiU-level school in a can.

(03-25-2014 08:21 PM)DogTracks Wrote:  

(03-25-2014 08:10 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  It's an interesting discussion as a long term goal of the State. If it happens, it's probably a 100 year project to get full value.

The only way this happens is probably to force UIC to be this school, or to build a new University from the ground up, maybe in the Quad Cities area to not only gather IL students to poach from MN, IA and WI as well.

It's definitely a long range activity. UIC has a slight head start to being #2, but that gap could be closed in relatively short order by any institution given the rope needed to do so. Like a lot of things, it's a matter of political will to take one of the schools and repurpose it into the #2. It would pretty much be a blood battle between the schools if it actually were going to be real.

Building from the ground up probably wouldn't happen- but if a Knox or Augustana or one of the better little colleges happened to have a financial hiccup, I can imagine a buyout/expansion happening. Then you almost have a MiamiU-level school in a can.

NIU 19000 students, 66 million endowment
Knox 1400 students, 81 million endowment
ISU 25000, 88 million
Augustana 2500, 115 million
UIC 28000(16500 undergrad, 11500 grad), 675 million

Guessing UIC is happy with their status, looks like Knox and Augustana are doing pretty well it seems.

Why not increase our entrance standards over the next decade to be on par with Iowa and Indiana. Would the state allow us to chart a different course? Is this something the NIU administration could unilaterally act upon or would we need political support? It seems as if ISU is trying hard to take the next step, even if they are now on their third president in three years.

(03-25-2014 05:10 PM)randyfensfanclub1 Wrote:  Basically to say NIU is far superior to it's State counterparts is like saying Mercury is closer to the Sun vs all the other planets. Together, a solar sytsem away from B10. Big picture, the cost of any other or even new school is minimal in realm of things.

I don't buy your analogy. How much does it cost to build a new law school for instance from the ground up as opposed to expanding or simply upgrading the faculty of an existing one? And if you want to build one acceptable to the B1G? Probably well north of $50MM. Cal-Irvine did this a few years ago and the state of IL would have to follow their model. You need to meet ABA accreditation requirements, including a state of the art law library with however many thousands of volumes And the law school is the cheap one to build. Medical schools and engineering schools are going to need a lot more than libraries and moot court rooms.

So unless your idea of minimal is $100 million, then I wouldn't call it minimal.

Another problem with building a school from scratch is there is no alumni base to raise money from. That's something UC Irvine is struggling with right now as their new dean tries to raise tens of millions for his brand new law school, even though the larger institution has been long established.

Quote:Did admission standards dramatically go at BC, NIU or Valpo go up after these events? Of course not. They are next to meaningless in the realm f these universitie academically.

And yes, the money goes back in. They re-invest.

And if you really want to talk about the worth of football, other than the elite, they are LOSING money. That's where the "subsidies" come in. In 2012, all but 7 schools subsidized their athletics. Endowment funds, research make the world go round for most, a concept that is hard to conceive.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/s.../finances/

I didn't say dramatically. But they do have an impact. Simply making the Orange Bowl and getting blown out increased NIU applications 11% last year, and the 25th percentile ACT score you posted has risen from 19 to 20. After Bradley made the Sweet 16 in 2006, they launched a campaign and raised $160MM. That isn't nothing.

But you're missing the point. The point is to get into the B1G, you need a big time football program and you need world class academic programs. The B1G values that, so you need it. I don't know why you're trying to convince me that football operates in the red and doesn't do much for academics. Even if I agreed with you, **it doesn't matter**. The B1G would demand an AAU level school with athletic facilities worthy of a power conference.

I'm all for increasing the scores to get into the University. There's no reason we shouldn't raise academic standards to start competing for the better students and win them away from Iowa, UofI and we should be stealing the best of them from ISU. There's no reason we shouldn't. We have some amazing programs at NIU. Our Law School is great, business program, Engineering, teaching. All great. Theater used to be really good, not sure where it is now, and I know they need to work on some the LA&S programs, but they can get there. We have some great research facilities Fermi Lab, and many others that we have partnered with, but we need to strive to improve the graduate level research so we can get those students. We need to increase the endowment and sports WILL play a big role in that, but we need the academics to back it up, and that's where the board of directors needs to determine what they want NIU to be. Are we just another WIU, EIU, SIU, or do we want to be something more? All of use here want it to be something more, and the students on here really need to be the ones pushing teachers and administrators for more. Alumni need to show with their donations what they want the University to become. Go to those alumni luncheons and put it in the Leaderships ears that we want NIU to become something more. It's not a quick road by any means especially with the state being broke, but we can all do something to help get NIU to be great on and off the field.

(03-26-2014 10:14 AM)Max Power Wrote:  

(03-25-2014 05:10 PM)randyfensfanclub1 Wrote:  Basically to say NIU is far superior to it's State counterparts is like saying Mercury is closer to the Sun vs all the other planets. Together, a solar sytsem away from B10. Big picture, the cost of any other or even new school is minimal in realm of things.

I don't buy your analogy. How much does it cost to build a new law school for instance from the ground up as opposed to expanding or simply upgrading the faculty of an existing one? And if you want to build one acceptable to the B1G? Probably well north of $50MM. Cal-Irvine did this a few years ago and the state of IL would have to follow their model. You need to meet ABA accreditation requirements, including a state of the art law library with however many thousands of volumes And the law school is the cheap one to build. Medical schools and engineering schools are going to need a lot more than libraries and moot court rooms.

So unless your idea of minimal is $100 million, then I wouldn't call it minimal.

Another problem with building a school from scratch is there is no alumni base to raise money from. That's something UC Irvine is struggling with right now as their new dean tries to raise tens of millions for his brand new law school, even though the larger institution has been long established.

Quote:Did admission standards dramatically go at BC, NIU or Valpo go up after these events? Of course not. They are next to meaningless in the realm f these universitie academically.

And yes, the money goes back in. They re-invest.

And if you really want to talk about the worth of football, other than the elite, they are LOSING money. That's where the "subsidies" come in. In 2012, all but 7 schools subsidized their athletics. Endowment funds, research make the world go round for most, a concept that is hard to conceive.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/s.../finances/

I didn't say dramatically. But they do have an impact. Simply making the Orange Bowl and getting blown out increased NIU applications 11% last year, and the 25th percentile ACT score you posted has risen from 19 to 20. After Bradley made the Sweet 16 in 2006, they launched a campaign and raised $160MM. That isn't nothing.

But you're missing the point. The point is to get into the B1G, you need a big time football program and you need world class academic programs. The B1G values that, so you need it. I don't know why you're trying to convince me that football operates in the red and doesn't do much for academics. Even if I agreed with you, **it doesn't matter**. The B1G would demand an AAU level school with athletic facilities worthy of a power conference.

1) I was refering to upgrade in athletic venue, not school as a whole. And while NIU is better acadmically then other State schools (well not ISU as a whole, but that' not the point) they are together are in a nother solar sytem far from B10, as a GROUP in most academic areas. (Yes to those out there, I know NIU has good accounting and Physical Therapy, etc.)
2) The logic from what I understand is to associate the school with B10 to give it credibility and income. There is a validity to an argument they would likely make that just increasing NIU or any other schools acadmically is like dressing up a pig. On the other side of it is like saying you buy a toaster at Macy's for $100 it is better...10X then one you can buy at Kohl's for $10. Or a better analogy for NIU football fans, that 90% of sports fans outside of MAC, Chicago and maybe Champaign and W. Lafayette think just because you are a member of the B10, you are better than NIU in football. NIU IS benefiting for recent success, but it is minor and the odds of it lasting are against it.
3) No doubt NIU is closer in football to B10 then any other. But that is not to say another school could achieve success quickly, just not as quickly as NIU. NIU goes from mostly 2 star and some 3 star players to mostly 3's and some 4's.

4) And $..this state knows how to spend it. A new school, right or wrong, in time creates 10,000 construction jobs in the #1 payola union state and politically corrupt kickback state. This would be a few billion dollars over 10 years probably. There is always a way.
And back to location, I think it's either near STL, near Chicago. It's funny if you really think about all the arguments of why people don't go to NIU football, even NW, but then translate it into demographics. I really think if you made a new school near Naperville from day one you would instantly form an identity with that area of 250k people, Chicago and students from day one. More than pre-B10 alumni of NIU would, and more than you would gain locally in DeKalb-Rockford and even Chicago area. Just my opinion. Absolutely nothing against NIU,DeKalb. Just going by track record.

I guess I'm not quite sure what your point is. Is NIU closer to SIU than it is to Michigan State in terms of athletic budget and academics? Yeah. But if the question is the least expensive way to get a Michigan State level school, beefing up NIU is the answer. A brand new 40k stadium vs a second deck at Huskie Stadium, tens of millions on practice facilities that NIU already has... It's not just the players.

Now you raise the point that it's more stimulating to the economy to spend 10 figures on a new Michigan State from scratch. Yeah, that'll be an argument, but that kind of capital project will be a hard sell at this time. Of course any of this is a hard sell, but if this commission finds that expanding NIU or SIU would cost $500MM while building from scratch in Naperville would cost $2B, voting for the latter would be tough.

SIU is an interesting choice, because the B1G might want the increased exposure in STL but the stated goal of these legislators is to keep Illinois kids from leaving for Iowa and Purdue. If you want to keep them from leaving you're probably better off building it in Naperville like you said or expanding NIU because SIU is even further away for most of these Chicago area kids who are fleeing out of state.

(03-26-2014 01:09 PM)Max Power Wrote:  1) I guess I'm not quite sure what your point is. Is NIU closer to SIU than it is to Michigan State in terms of athletic budget and academics? Yeah. But if the question is the least expensive way to get a Michigan State level school, beefing up NIU is the answer. A brand new 40k stadium vs a second deck at Huskie Stadium, tens of millions on practice facilities that NIU already has... It's not just the players.

2) Now you raise the point that it's more stimulating to the economy to spend 10 figures on a new Michigan State from scratch. Yeah, that'll be an argument, but that kind of capital project will be a hard sell at this time. Of course any of this is a hard sell, but if this commission finds that expanding NIU or SIU would cost $500MM while building from scratch in Naperville would cost $2B, voting for the latter would be tough.

3)SIU is an interesting choice, because the B1G might want the increased exposure in STL but the stated goal of these legislators is to keep Illinois kids from leaving for Iowa and Purdue. If you want to keep them from leaving you're probably better off building it in Naperville like you said or expanding NIU because SIU is even further away for most of these Chicago area kids who are fleeing out of state.

1) Non-issue. Short term as far as competition is all. An extra $100 million? And the project would likely be a 40k seating facility, with oppurtunity to expand. Not taking one concrete side making it 40k.


2) When you have unions, job oppurtunity in a growing area, even some private sector interest backing and selling, I can see it happening. It's an undertaking not seen any time in recent history.

3) Not necessarily about mileage. About in state tuition. I think in general someone will w/o a doubt pay less, stay in State if given the option. Difference in distance and time would not be much and less of a factor.


I will reiterate, the point is NIU is not a the ultimate logaical choice. No matter which school is chosen, if any, would would require substantial $. That it has to be a decision that taking one, what does it do to the others, even U of I? Do you want to shrink an NIU or ISU and expand others? You may need to. You have to decide the entrance criteria, what majors and how many would come from other in state schools? Other out of State schools.

It is not simply NIU football is better, NIU academics better. That is what I have found ridiculous from the very start of this thread, and I am not saying you. While great to have pride, and we on here do. But we and others are a small %. NIU is frankly not the school that I think many want it to be, or think it is and moreover was. As someone said, they know area kids who don't even look at NIU.Why is that? My nephew has zero interest in it as a B+ student. In the late 80's, for me it was you want to stay in state and don't get intto UI, it's NIU. No NIU, ISU. Followed by EIU then maybe UIC/SIU. That's reality. Perhaps it an unfair perception, but I have heard over and over about comparing simple degrees from an UI vs an ISU/NIU vs. any other degree. It's about education. I just wonder how many larger states have such a dropoff from your top public institution to the next.

Per Twitter this afternoon: Sen. Murphy & Connelly's bill (SB3526) to study creating a new Big 10 university in Illinois passed the Senate 51-1-2 & heads to the House.

(03-26-2014 01:58 PM)randyfensfanclub1 Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 01:09 PM)Max Power Wrote:  1) I guess I'm not quite sure what your point is. Is NIU closer to SIU than it is to Michigan State in terms of athletic budget and academics? Yeah. But if the question is the least expensive way to get a Michigan State level school, beefing up NIU is the answer. A brand new 40k stadium vs a second deck at Huskie Stadium, tens of millions on practice facilities that NIU already has... It's not just the players.

2) Now you raise the point that it's more stimulating to the economy to spend 10 figures on a new Michigan State from scratch. Yeah, that'll be an argument, but that kind of capital project will be a hard sell at this time. Of course any of this is a hard sell, but if this commission finds that expanding NIU or SIU would cost $500MM while building from scratch in Naperville would cost $2B, voting for the latter would be tough.

3)SIU is an interesting choice, because the B1G might want the increased exposure in STL but the stated goal of these legislators is to keep Illinois kids from leaving for Iowa and Purdue. If you want to keep them from leaving you're probably better off building it in Naperville like you said or expanding NIU because SIU is even further away for most of these Chicago area kids who are fleeing out of state.

1) Non-issue. Short term as far as competition is all. An extra $100 million? And the project would likely be a 40k seating facility, with oppurtunity to expand. Not taking one concrete side making it 40k.


2) When you have unions, job oppurtunity in a growing area, even some private sector interest backing and selling, I can see it happening. It's an undertaking not seen any time in recent history.

3) Not necessarily about mileage. About in state tuition. I think in general someone will w/o a doubt pay less, stay in State if given the option. Difference in distance and time would not be much and less of a factor.


I will reiterate, the point is NIU is not a the ultimate logaical choice. No matter which school is chosen, if any, would would require substantial $. That it has to be a decision that taking one, what does it do to the others, even U of I? Do you want to shrink an NIU or ISU and expand others? You may need to. You have to decide the entrance criteria, what majors and how many would come from other in state schools? Other out of State schools.

It is not simply NIU football is better, NIU academics better. That is what I have found ridiculous from the very start of this thread, and I am not saying you. While great to have pride, and we on here do. But we and others are a small %. NIU is frankly not the school that I think many want it to be, or think it is and moreover was. As someone said, they know area kids who don't even look at NIU.Why is that? My nephew has zero interest in it as a B+ student. In the late 80's, for me it was you want to stay in state and don't get intto UI, it's NIU. No NIU, ISU. Followed by EIU then maybe UIC/SIU. That's reality. Perhaps it an unfair perception, but I have heard over and over about comparing simple degrees from an UI vs an ISU/NIU vs. any other degree. It's about education. I just wonder how many larger states have such a dropoff from your top public institution to the next.

If Michigan State is in the big 10, academic standards are not that important.

(04-01-2014 03:32 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 01:58 PM)randyfensfanclub1 Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 01:09 PM)Max Power Wrote:  1) I guess I'm not quite sure what your point is. Is NIU closer to SIU than it is to Michigan State in terms of athletic budget and academics? Yeah. But if the question is the least expensive way to get a Michigan State level school, beefing up NIU is the answer. A brand new 40k stadium vs a second deck at Huskie Stadium, tens of millions on practice facilities that NIU already has... It's not just the players.

2) Now you raise the point that it's more stimulating to the economy to spend 10 figures on a new Michigan State from scratch. Yeah, that'll be an argument, but that kind of capital project will be a hard sell at this time. Of course any of this is a hard sell, but if this commission finds that expanding NIU or SIU would cost $500MM while building from scratch in Naperville would cost $2B, voting for the latter would be tough.

3)SIU is an interesting choice, because the B1G might want the increased exposure in STL but the stated goal of these legislators is to keep Illinois kids from leaving for Iowa and Purdue. If you want to keep them from leaving you're probably better off building it in Naperville like you said or expanding NIU because SIU is even further away for most of these Chicago area kids who are fleeing out of state.

1) Non-issue. Short term as far as competition is all. An extra $100 million? And the project would likely be a 40k seating facility, with oppurtunity to expand. Not taking one concrete side making it 40k.


2) When you have unions, job oppurtunity in a growing area, even some private sector interest backing and selling, I can see it happening. It's an undertaking not seen any time in recent history.

3) Not necessarily about mileage. About in state tuition. I think in general someone will w/o a doubt pay less, stay in State if given the option. Difference in distance and time would not be much and less of a factor.


I will reiterate, the point is NIU is not a the ultimate logaical choice. No matter which school is chosen, if any, would would require substantial $. That it has to be a decision that taking one, what does it do to the others, even U of I? Do you want to shrink an NIU or ISU and expand others? You may need to. You have to decide the entrance criteria, what majors and how many would come from other in state schools? Other out of State schools.

It is not simply NIU football is better, NIU academics better. That is what I have found ridiculous from the very start of this thread, and I am not saying you. While great to have pride, and we on here do. But we and others are a small %. NIU is frankly not the school that I think many want it to be, or think it is and moreover was. As someone said, they know area kids who don't even look at NIU.Why is that? My nephew has zero interest in it as a B+ student. In the late 80's, for me it was you want to stay in state and don't get intto UI, it's NIU. No NIU, ISU. Followed by EIU then maybe UIC/SIU. That's reality. Perhaps it an unfair perception, but I have heard over and over about comparing simple degrees from an UI vs an ISU/NIU vs. any other degree. It's about education. I just wonder how many larger states have such a dropoff from your top public institution to the next.

If Michigan State is in the big 10, academic standards are not that important.

Really? Have you taken a class there?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(04-01-2014 03:40 PM)utpotts Wrote:  

(04-01-2014 03:32 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 01:58 PM)randyfensfanclub1 Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 01:09 PM)Max Power Wrote:  1) I guess I'm not quite sure what your point is. Is NIU closer to SIU than it is to Michigan State in terms of athletic budget and academics? Yeah. But if the question is the least expensive way to get a Michigan State level school, beefing up NIU is the answer. A brand new 40k stadium vs a second deck at Huskie Stadium, tens of millions on practice facilities that NIU already has... It's not just the players.

2) Now you raise the point that it's more stimulating to the economy to spend 10 figures on a new Michigan State from scratch. Yeah, that'll be an argument, but that kind of capital project will be a hard sell at this time. Of course any of this is a hard sell, but if this commission finds that expanding NIU or SIU would cost $500MM while building from scratch in Naperville would cost $2B, voting for the latter would be tough.

3)SIU is an interesting choice, because the B1G might want the increased exposure in STL but the stated goal of these legislators is to keep Illinois kids from leaving for Iowa and Purdue. If you want to keep them from leaving you're probably better off building it in Naperville like you said or expanding NIU because SIU is even further away for most of these Chicago area kids who are fleeing out of state.

1) Non-issue. Short term as far as competition is all. An extra $100 million? And the project would likely be a 40k seating facility, with oppurtunity to expand. Not taking one concrete side making it 40k.


2) When you have unions, job oppurtunity in a growing area, even some private sector interest backing and selling, I can see it happening. It's an undertaking not seen any time in recent history.

3) Not necessarily about mileage. About in state tuition. I think in general someone will w/o a doubt pay less, stay in State if given the option. Difference in distance and time would not be much and less of a factor.


I will reiterate, the point is NIU is not a the ultimate logaical choice. No matter which school is chosen, if any, would would require substantial $. That it has to be a decision that taking one, what does it do to the others, even U of I? Do you want to shrink an NIU or ISU and expand others? You may need to. You have to decide the entrance criteria, what majors and how many would come from other in state schools? Other out of State schools.

It is not simply NIU football is better, NIU academics better. That is what I have found ridiculous from the very start of this thread, and I am not saying you. While great to have pride, and we on here do. But we and others are a small %. NIU is frankly not the school that I think many want it to be, or think it is and moreover was. As someone said, they know area kids who don't even look at NIU.Why is that? My nephew has zero interest in it as a B+ student. In the late 80's, for me it was you want to stay in state and don't get intto UI, it's NIU. No NIU, ISU. Followed by EIU then maybe UIC/SIU. That's reality. Perhaps it an unfair perception, but I have heard over and over about comparing simple degrees from an UI vs an ISU/NIU vs. any other degree. It's about education. I just wonder how many larger states have such a dropoff from your top public institution to the next.

If Michigan State is in the big 10, academic standards are not that important.

Really? Have you taken a class there?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Please, ignore him.