this is gonna sound so crazy but hear me out, I'm more worried about them defensively next year... They are gonna be so young and inexperienced. Their biggest problem the last 2 years on offense has been spacing, look at the good offensive teams in college basketball, duke, creighton, Iowa st, mich st... Etc they all have stretch 4's/ pick and pop bigs, jabari, mcdermott, payne, kane etc... Allows for more movement, driving lanes, drive and dishes. Titus and Jack were so sketchy outside of 5 feet the defense doesn't ever get disconnected or stretched. Lawrence has that ability, gotta improve a lot... The 2 guys coming in, Clark and Moore are in that mold, they can step out shoot it and handle it a little. I like KJ's stroke, sanders can hit open shots. I just think the inability to space the floor for 2 years has been their biggest issue. That's why the sweet 16 team, mick went 4 around 1. Gave yancy room to operate with Parker, SK, cash, and Dixon around him.... They had good flow on offense. I like this roster going forward offensively and I'm willing to trust the defensive savant that mick is

(03-21-2014 01:09 AM)batmn0323 Wrote:  this is gonna sound so crazy but hear me out, I'm more worried about them defensively next year... They are gonna be so young and inexperienced. Their biggest problem the last 2 years on offense has been spacing, look at the good offensive teams in college basketball, duke, creighton, Iowa st, mich st... Etc they all have stretch 4's/ pick and pop bigs, jabari, mcdermott, payne, kane etc... Allows for more movement, driving lanes, drive and dishes. Titus and Jack were so sketchy outside of 5 feet the defense doesn't ever get disconnected or stretched. Lawrence has that ability, gotta improve a lot... The 2 guys coming in, Clark and Moore are in that mold, they can step out shoot it and handle it a little. I like KJ's stroke, sanders can hit open shots. I just think the inability to space the floor for 2 years has been their biggest issue. That's why the sweet 16 team, mick went 4 around 1. Gave yancy room to operate with Parker, SK, cash, and Dixon around him.... They had good flow on offense. I like this roster going forward offensively and I'm willing to trust the defensive savant that mick is

You bring up a good point, but one thing I think youre not considering is the crazy length that we will have on D next year. That alone will help our D with defections. I remember back a few years ago when our talent on the roster was much poorer and mick still had them playing good sound D. I wouldnt be surprised in the least if Mick decided to play a bit more zone next year to help protect our young bigs in the middle from quick foul trouble. It will be interesting

(03-21-2014 01:09 AM)batmn0323 Wrote:  this is gonna sound so crazy but hear me out, I'm more worried about them defensively next year... They are gonna be so young and inexperienced. Their biggest problem the last 2 years on offense has been spacing, look at the good offensive teams in college basketball, duke, creighton, Iowa st, mich st... Etc they all have stretch 4's/ pick and pop bigs, jabari, mcdermott, payne, kane etc... Allows for more movement, driving lanes, drive and dishes. Titus and Jack were so sketchy outside of 5 feet the defense doesn't ever get disconnected or stretched. Lawrence has that ability, gotta improve a lot... The 2 guys coming in, Clark and Moore are in that mold, they can step out shoot it and handle it a little. I like KJ's stroke, sanders can hit open shots. I just think the inability to space the floor for 2 years has been their biggest issue. That's why the sweet 16 team, mick went 4 around 1. Gave yancy room to operate with Parker, SK, cash, and Dixon around him.... They had good flow on offense. I like this roster going forward offensively and I'm willing to trust the defensive savant that mick is

I think it will be like that at the beginning of the season. However, come tourney time, we should be sound due to our young team gaining more experience. The question is will it be too late for a bid the NCAA Tourney.

(03-21-2014 01:09 AM)batmn0323 Wrote:  this is gonna sound so crazy but hear me out, I'm more worried about them defensively next year... They are gonna be so young and inexperienced. Their biggest problem the last 2 years on offense has been spacing, look at the good offensive teams in college basketball, duke, creighton, Iowa st, mich st... Etc they all have stretch 4's/ pick and pop bigs, jabari, mcdermott, payne, kane etc... Allows for more movement, driving lanes, drive and dishes. Titus and Jack were so sketchy outside of 5 feet the defense doesn't ever get disconnected or stretched. Lawrence has that ability, gotta improve a lot... The 2 guys coming in, Clark and Moore are in that mold, they can step out shoot it and handle it a little. I like KJ's stroke, sanders can hit open shots. I just think the inability to space the floor for 2 years has been their biggest issue. That's why the sweet 16 team, mick went 4 around 1. Gave yancy room to operate with Parker, SK, cash, and Dixon around him.... They had good flow on offense. I like this roster going forward offensively and I'm willing to trust the defensive savant that mick is

Not crazy at all. Obvious in fact

I think it's why we are all so excited about the likes of Moore and Clark. Seems like both of them can hit out to 20 feet. And, both seem to have athleticism enough to switch.

We'll have good low-block scorers in Strickland (I hate that he hasn't been playing in awhile) and predumably Deberry.

But, they are still young, and will need to adjust defensively. We saw that with Troy quite a bit, and with Lawrence early on. But, JL really came on defensively as the season progressed. He is the rare 5* type, whose defense is well ahead of his offense. And, it makes sense, with the combination of how much time he missed making him sloppy on offense, and his athleticism/instincts favoring the defensive end. I guess this has turned into a "Lawrence defend" post LOL! He will be one of many legit options at the 4/5 positions going forward.

Actually I really do believe Mick wants to play more like Louisville. This year we started that way, but with Strickland unavailable, Lawrence taking a longer then expected to get it going and never really actually finding himself (And then getting injured) and then Morman getting hurt (Though he may have redshirted anyway) and JD3 dealing with the fallout from the fire, he just couldn't go all season like that.

I can see a style like that more often next season as we will be at least two deep at every position and have some guys that are interchangeable and can play multiple spots. Lots of flexibility, length and athleticism. I also think we will have more scoring options.

Every year we say, how are we going to overcome the loss of X and yet the next year we do. While other teams find themselves in the NIT (G'Town) or out of all tourneys (IU), UC just keeps over-achieving. Our recruiting classes keep getting better and better and we continue to head in the right direction.

I think we struggle in some of the early tests next year (We have some pretty tough matchups next season), but also have some good wins, but come tourney time, we could really be putting it together. The key will be to make sure we can keep our NCAA tourney streak alive and I believe we can, albeit we could be on the bubble, though if the guys take the next step, the talent is certainly there to surprise, but I think in two years, we may be looking at the best Bearcat team since the Kenyon team.

As the late great Al McGuire used to say, "The best thing about Freshmen, they become sophomores" and we have some talented Freshmen with a pretty high ceiling that got a taste of the NCAAs and want more.

(03-21-2014 08:35 AM)BigDawg Wrote:  Actually I really do believe Mick wants to play more like Louisville. This year we started that way, but with Strickland unavailable, Lawrence taking a longer then expected to get it going and never really actually finding himself (And then getting injured) and then Morman getting hurt (Though he may have redshirted anyway) and JD3 dealing with the fallout from the fire, he just couldn't go all season like that.

I can see a style like that more often next season as we will be at least two deep at every position and have some guys that are interchangeable and can play multiple spots. Lots of flexibility, length and athleticism. I also think we will have more scoring options.

Every year we say, how are we going to overcome the loss of X and yet the next year we do. While other teams find themselves in the NIT (G'Town) or out of all tourneys (IU), UC just keeps over-achieving. Our recruiting classes keep getting better and better and we continue to head in the right direction.

I think we struggle in some of the early tests next year (We have some pretty tough matchups next season), but also have some good wins, but come tourney time, we could really be putting it together. The key will be to make sure we can keep our NCAA tourney streak alive and I believe we can, albeit we could be on the bubble, though if the guys take the next step, the talent is certainly there to surprise, but I think in two years, we may be looking at the best Bearcat team since the Kenyon team.

As the late great Al McGuire used to say, "The best thing about Freshmen, they become sophomores" and we have some talented Freshmen with a pretty high ceiling that got a taste of the NCAAs and want more.

Great post. I still think Mick is looking for a one year rent a player transfer that can score. That is the missing piece on next year's roster.

If our defense isn't going to be great next year we better light it up when we have the ball....which is hard to imagine a UC team "lighting it up" but who knows.

I mean, we can't be THAT much worse offensively, so obviously the defense would be the place of worry for next years team.

Dayton is winning with skilled shooters, a clear offensive plan and defense. They shouldn't be more talented in raw ability than UC but they actually run an offense.

Most of the time watching UC on offense it seems like UC is freelancing not actually running an identifiable offense.

UC needs to recruit guys who can shoot well coming out of high school and want to play defense. Mick can teach defense to them but it's hard to make a guy who doesn't have a shooters touch much better on offense.

UC has lacked for shooters and it kills them in the tournament.

Mick talks about playing offense like UL but then reverts to a walk it up the floor offense. Happens every year. Doesn't focus on getting his guys to penetrate. He wants a low possession game. He was going to redshirt Moorman before he got hurt. Depends too much on one guy. Did not develop KJ and Caupain in the middle of the season. Why Guyn was starting is beyond me. Total zero on offense.

(03-23-2014 04:42 PM)pobearman Wrote:  Mick talks about playing offense like UL but then reverts to a walk it up the floor offense. Happens every year. Doesn't focus on getting his guys to penetrate. He wants a low possession game. He was going to redshirt Moorman before he got hurt. Depends too much on one guy. Did not develop KJ and Caupain in the middle of the season. Why Guyn was starting is beyond me. Total zero on offense.

I would agree with the comment on Guyn, but there was an offense being run. At times, it looked very sharp and fluid but those times were VERY rare and depended a lot on JJ. Caupain has the look of a floor general but needs to play with poise and aggression at all times. And there needs to be multiple weapons on the perimeter for a drive and kick or a post-passing offense to work.

Call me crazy but I think Mick understood what the limitations of this team were going to be and did an incredible job getting what he did out of them. The only mistake he made was sacrificing the development of Caupain and KJ in favor of defense (Guyn) but honestly, I think he felt it was his best chance to win overall and I think he felt he owed it to SK to feature his talents and maximize whatever win potential the team had.

Call me Bat Sh#t crazy, but I think next year's team has the chance to be 2x the team this team was by the end of the 2015 season.

(03-23-2014 04:49 PM)HattoriHanzo Wrote:  

(03-23-2014 04:42 PM)pobearman Wrote:  Mick talks about playing offense like UL but then reverts to a walk it up the floor offense. Happens every year. Doesn't focus on getting his guys to penetrate. He wants a low possession game. He was going to redshirt Moorman before he got hurt. Depends too much on one guy. Did not develop KJ and Caupain in the middle of the season. Why Guyn was starting is beyond me. Total zero on offense.

I would agree with the comment on Guyn, but there was an offense being run. At times, it looked very sharp and fluid but those times were VERY rare and depended a lot on JJ. Caupain has the look of a floor general but needs to play with poise and aggression at all times. And there needs to be multiple weapons on the perimeter for a drive and kick or a post-passing offense to work.

Call me crazy but I think Mick understood what the limitations of this team were going to be and did an incredible job getting what he did out of them. The only mistake he made was sacrificing the development of Caupain and KJ in favor of defense (Guyn) but honestly, I think he felt it was his best chance to win overall and I think he felt he owed it to SK to feature his talents and maximize whatever win potential the team had.

Call me Bat Sh#t crazy, but I think next year's team has the chance to be 2x the team this team was by the end of the 2015 season.

The roster is a mess. There's no way this team will be better unless there's some surprise transfer. This team loses it's best defensive player, it's most versatile defensive player, and one of the Top 10 players in school history. The "upperclass" will be dominated by guys who were over-recruited and will not suddenly "transform" into go to guys who will score and win games. I honestly don't believe either Guyn or Sanders would start for NKU. Thomas will be in his 4th year in the program and has unreal athletic ability, but doesn't seem to have the mental approach to be a consistent player or vocal leader.

As was pointed out in another thread, the 2011 and 2012 recruiting classes were absolutely horrible. Probably D- level. While this year's freshmen class and this year's recruiting class look far more promising, it's going to take time to develop both classes. While the incoming freshman big guys have potential, their not Wiggins/Parker types...and you can see how much freshmen with far more talent have struggled this year.

Per the above, as aggressive and tough as we are on defense..........we're just as passive and slow on offense. We play not to make a mistake, never really run, and rarely aggressively attack quickly. Combine that w/ the fact that Cronin will play Guyn even more next year...just because he is a Sr. and you'll get an average year. Probably 4th-6th in the even worse AAC and an NIT bid. Hopefully, the better talent in the sophomore/freshmen classes aren't sitting the bench like KJ did most of the year, so they can develop. We're two years away from being potentially really good again.

Watched the Wichita State team play today and they have like 6 or 7 guys who are legitimate scoring threats inside and out. They hit their shots, run the court well and don't turn the ball over. Hard to see anyone from this year's team starting on theirs, other than SK (and maybe the version of JJ that was playing mid-season). Pretty amazing the talent disparity, considering they are a "mid-major". I just hope the guys coming in next year can develop into a squad that plays ball like that. I'm not optimistic though, as it seems that these "great" high school scorers we recruit regress on the offensive side of the ball once they get to our program. I sort of feel like we've been watching the basketball equivalent to Minter/Dantonio ball for so many years now and we're all waiting for BK style basketball to finally show up.

Optimists 10
Pessimists 2

I don't expect these guys to light the world in fire at the beginning of the season , but I wouldn't be surprised to see them sneak into the tournament. Lots of question marks on this team, but Mick has a knack of turning ? into tournament appearances.

(03-23-2014 05:14 PM)mbl95 Wrote:  

(03-23-2014 04:49 PM)HattoriHanzo Wrote:  

(03-23-2014 04:42 PM)pobearman Wrote:  Mick talks about playing offense like UL but then reverts to a walk it up the floor offense. Happens every year. Doesn't focus on getting his guys to penetrate. He wants a low possession game. He was going to redshirt Moorman before he got hurt. Depends too much on one guy. Did not develop KJ and Caupain in the middle of the season. Why Guyn was starting is beyond me. Total zero on offense.

I would agree with the comment on Guyn, but there was an offense being run. At times, it looked very sharp and fluid but those times were VERY rare and depended a lot on JJ. Caupain has the look of a floor general but needs to play with poise and aggression at all times. And there needs to be multiple weapons on the perimeter for a drive and kick or a post-passing offense to work.

Call me crazy but I think Mick understood what the limitations of this team were going to be and did an incredible job getting what he did out of them. The only mistake he made was sacrificing the development of Caupain and KJ in favor of defense (Guyn) but honestly, I think he felt it was his best chance to win overall and I think he felt he owed it to SK to feature his talents and maximize whatever win potential the team had.

Call me Bat Sh#t crazy, but I think next year's team has the chance to be 2x the team this team was by the end of the 2015 season.

The roster is a mess. There's no way this team will be better unless there's some surprise transfer. This team loses it's best defensive player, it's most versatile defensive player, and one of the Top 10 players in school history. The "upperclass" will be dominated by guys who were over-recruited and will not suddenly "transform" into go to guys who will score and win games. I honestly don't believe either Guyn or Sanders would start for NKU. Thomas will be in his 4th year in the program and has unreal athletic ability, but doesn't seem to have the mental approach to be a consistent player or vocal leader.

As was pointed out in another thread, the 2011 and 2012 recruiting classes were absolutely horrible. Probably D- level. While this year's freshmen class and this year's recruiting class look far more promising, it's going to take time to develop both classes. While the incoming freshman big guys have potential, their not Wiggins/Parker types...and you can see how much freshmen with far more talent have struggled this year.

Per the above, as aggressive and tough as we are on defense..........we're just as passive and slow on offense. We play not to make a mistake, never really run, and rarely aggressively attack quickly. Combine that w/ the fact that Cronin will play Guyn even more next year...just because he is a Sr. and you'll get an average year. Probably 4th-6th in the even worse AAC and an NIT bid. Hopefully, the better talent in the sophomore/freshmen classes aren't sitting the bench like KJ did most of the year, so they can develop. We're two years away from being potentially really good again.

I'm not sure where you get the roster is a mess. Good balance now of size and depth. In need of an athletic scoring threat, that's about it. This year our entire inside game was JJ. Next year there's real size and skill. Shaq Thomas was part of one of those classes you speak of and nobody doubts his potential.
The loss of that Top-10 player will be a blessing in many ways. Remember what happened the year after we lost the national POY? The players that were left were forced to get better and find other answers. The result was a subsequent Sweet 16 team and the following year, a #1 seed.
It's never just a matter of "oh, we lost this guy so we'll regress next year". This year's team lacked a true, experienced PG and offensive cohesion. Given another year of development, along with the incoming players, and a big step up by JL, and next year's team can surpass the achievements of this year's team by year end. You can disagree, I'll stick by that statement. Ultimately, the Coaches and Players that comprise the team will decide who's right.

(03-23-2014 06:26 PM)Bearcatbdub Wrote:  Optimists 10
Pessimists 2

I don't expect these guys to light the world in fire at the beginning of the season , but I wouldn't be surprised to see them sneak into the tournament. Lots of question marks on this team, but Mick has a knack of turning ? into tournament appearances.

Right. The fact is, we don't know. We don't know how big a leap Shaq will make, or Lawrence. We don't know how good Morman will be after redshirting, or how long it will take Clark and Quadri to figure out this level. How much better will Caupain be? KJ? Will we snag Graham or another skilled guard? Many questions left to be answered, and I'd rather let the team answer them than spend all offseason lamenting how bad we're going to be.

Everyone thought the sky was falling after Kenyon and DerMarr left, then Satterfield, and so on. That's why they work hard, practice, get coached, and play the games.