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thebearcat Offline
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Recent Recruiting Classes
I know there's a recruiting forum but this is more of a reflection on recent classes.

I think one problem with our offense and one reason for concern for next year specifically, the 2011 recruiting class. these guys should be seniors next year and leaders and the heart of the team

Jermaine Sanders, G'lawn Guyn, Shaq Thomas, Kelvin Gaines, Jeremiah Davis, and Octavius Ellis

In 2012 our one and only recruit was juco Titus Tubles.

In two years of recruiting, we have 3 players to show for it. And none of those three have really shown much. Guyn will probably start at PG. Shaq will start. I dont know what we have in Sanders.

This year's freshman class was good and two more from this year join next year plus three newcomers.

But I feel like we lost a lot in 2011-2012 and that may have set us back a bit this year and next year.

just curious if anyone else feels that recent recruiting maybe is the cause for struggles this year and possibly looking ahead or if maybe I am looking at this wrong.
 
03-20-2014 10:58 PM
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bearcatdp Offline
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RE: Recent Recruiting Classes
We're going to be young, athletic and big next year. Guyn and Sanders don't strike me as the leader type of guys but maybe Shaq Thomas is. I like what I saw out of Johnson and Caupain this year so hopefully the young guys mature over the next 8 months.
 
03-21-2014 10:44 AM
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EffinBJ Offline
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RE: Recent Recruiting Classes
(03-21-2014 10:44 AM)bearcatdp Wrote:  We're going to be young, athletic and big next year. Guyn and Sanders don't strike me as the leader type of guys but maybe Shaq Thomas is. I like what I saw out of Johnson and Caupain this year so hopefully the young guys mature over the next 8 months.

Shaq is, at the moment, sulky, and entirely unlike a leader. He makes bonehead gambles defensively that break down a complicated defensive scheme (a scheme that works), and he's pretty much a black hole on offense.

He's also immensely talented. If he learns when to look for his shot, and when not to, if he adds strength and can finish his drives, and if he keeps his head in the game, he can be one of the players that can provide the offense that has been so lacking.

He kind of reminds me of Armein Kirkland. For better and worse.
 
03-21-2014 11:27 AM
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CincyBro Offline
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RE: Recent Recruiting Classes
What this team needs more than anything is an injection of " HIGH BB IQ. "
 
03-21-2014 11:57 AM
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bearcats23 Offline
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RE: Recent Recruiting Classes
Guyn gives us absolutely nothing. He had a couple decent games in a row where he was knocking down shots, but he is more of a liability than an asset out there.

Turnover machine that has trouble going left, can't penetrate the defense, and can't create his own shot.

He can hit an occasional three if left wide open and shooting off the pass (30.9% on the year, not exactly stellar), and he's a pretty good defender. And he seems like a good kid. That's about all I can say positive for the guy.

Not to be harsh but I honesty don't know if there's another team in our league, yes, the mighty American Conference, where Guyn would start. If he starts and plays more minutes over Caupain next year I will be deeply dissapointed.
 
03-21-2014 12:01 PM
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bearcats23 Offline
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RE: Recent Recruiting Classes
OK I feel bad dissing a college player like that, I'm sure Guyn is a good guy, and there's no doubt he plays hard, I just don't think he is as skilled or talented as Caupain. That is all.
 
03-21-2014 12:08 PM
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Intimidate Dominate Celebrate Offline
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RE: Recent Recruiting Classes
The thing that separates UC from the top programs in the country are the top 50 talent. Sure Mick has got some guys (Gates, Stephenson, Lawrence) but this level of talent needs to come in consistently at UC if they're going to take the next step.

Mick is a great recruiter in the sense he has an eye for talent and he can find the diamond in the rough (guys like SK, Caupain, Clark) but there's a reason every big school isn't in on the guys Mick brings in, they have a deficiency somewhere (bball skills, athletic ability, IQ)

If Mick can begin to attract more top 50 guys, rather than top 100 guys, while hitting a McD AA every once in a while UC will be the team we're watching consistently on the 2nd weekend.

Saw a stat somewhere every national championship team has had at least one McDonald's All American. Coaching is easier when your talent is better than the everyone else.
 
03-21-2014 12:16 PM
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Marcus Offline
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RE: Recent Recruiting Classes
(03-21-2014 12:16 PM)Intimidate Dominate Celebrate Wrote:  The thing that separates UC from the top programs in the country are the top 50 talent. Sure Mick has got some guys (Gates, Stephenson, Lawrence) but this level of talent needs to come in consistently at UC if they're going to take the next step.

Mick is a great recruiter in the sense he has an eye for talent and he can find the diamond in the rough (guys like SK, Caupain, Clark) but there's a reason every big school isn't in on the guys Mick brings in, they have a deficiency somewhere (bball skills, athletic ability, IQ)

If Mick can begin to attract more top 50 guys, rather than top 100 guys, while hitting a McD AA every once in a while UC will be the team we're watching consistently on the 2nd weekend.

My thoughts exactly. You cant fill out an entire roster of diamond in the rough type guys or guys in the 100-150 range. It's fine to have a number of those guys on the team but you need at least 3 or so of those upper echelon National Top 50 type guys on your team if you truly want to be a program that can consistently make it to the second weekend of the tournament. Like you said that level of talent needs to come in more consistently.
 
03-21-2014 12:35 PM
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Bearhawkeye Offline
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RE: Recent Recruiting Classes
It all comes down to the players so sure the more talent (broadly defined), the better and so yeah it would be great if we signed mostly top 50 players each year. But that doesn't always make for a great team (e.g. Kentucky) and more importantly probably isn't all that realistic.

Somebody here recently called Izzo the best coach in the country. That's debatable but he's clearly one of the best and here's some of his thoughts on the matter:

Quote: He has made a few tough decisions, starting with this: He is done chasing the best players in the country. Chasing one a year, that's fine, but beyond that? Not worth it.

The world of top-10 recruits is not Izzo's world. Fans speculate about cheating, and that surely happens, but that is only part of it. As Izzo says, "It's very difficult ... there are so many influential factors." There are too many hangers-on, too many voices in player's ears, too many agendas. Izzo is starting to realize: Even if he had landed some of those top players, he might not like coaching them.

We're on the right track imo. I like what we've got coming in next year and we may not be done yet. Just stay the course with Mick and the success will continue to grow.
 
(This post was last modified: 03-21-2014 03:52 PM by Bearhawkeye.)
03-21-2014 03:50 PM
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RE: Recent Recruiting Classes
3 guys in one recruiting class no longer with the program. That's the type of thing some on here killed Huggs for. However, it's just the nature of the beast. Going to happen sometimes.
 
03-21-2014 03:58 PM
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Bearcatbdub Offline
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RE: Recent Recruiting Classes
This program has a lot more to attract top recruits than it did 4 or 5 years ago. 4 straight tournament appearances, an all-american, a conference coach of the year, etc.

I expect the average level of player that will lend an ear to Mick's recruiting pitch will be a higher level.

The Big East dissolving really sucks, but it might be better to challenge for first place every year in the American than 5th or 6th place in The Beast. Coupled together with the teams we used to have to recruit against in our league.
 
03-21-2014 06:58 PM
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RE: Recent Recruiting Classes
2014/15 Roster
1 COREONTAE DeBERRY
C 6 9 260 JR
Has never played an NCAA game. JUCO big men usually take a year to develop.
2 QUADRI MOORE
C 6 9 230 FR
Has never played an NCAA game.
3 JAMAREE STRICKLAND
C 6 10 270 FR
Has never played an NCAA game, but has experience of one year in college and I assume has been working on body and conditioning.
4 GARY CLARK
PF 6 7 215 FR
Has never played an NCAA game.
5 JERMAINE LAWRENCE
PF 6 9 205 SO
1 year experience as back up. Staying physically healthy?
6 SHAQUILLE THOMAS
SF 6 7 205 JR
Experienced returning starter.
7 JERMAINE SANDERS
SF 6 5 210 SR
Returning back-up player.
8 TROY CAUPAIN
PG/SG 6 3 200 SO
Returning soph back-up point.
9 GE'LAWN GUYN
SG/PG 6 2 185 SR
Returning starting point guard. Physically healthy?
10 KEVIN JOHNSON
SG 6 2 180 SO
Returning soph back-up shooting guard. Physical stamina for significant increase in playing time?
11 DESHAUN MORMAN
SG 6 3 190 FR
Has never played an NCAA game, but has experience of one year in college.

A lot riding on at least three players being able to step up their games. For sure Shaq, point and shooting guard.

It is easy to see why Mick and his assistants are looking to sign at least one more seasoned player for the back court.

Gonna be an up 04-cheers and down 03-banghead season.
 
03-22-2014 10:52 AM
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Bearcatbdub Offline
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RE: Recent Recruiting Classes
I will take the lumps next year. 2-3 years into the future I expect great things out of this group.
 
03-22-2014 06:15 PM
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beck Offline
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RE: Recent Recruiting Classes
(03-22-2014 10:52 AM)OneUChoopsfan Wrote:  2014/15 Roster
1 COREONTAE DeBERRY
C 6 9 260 JR
Has never played an NCAA game. JUCO big men usually take a year to develop.
2 QUADRI MOORE
C 6 9 230 FR
Has never played an NCAA game.
3 JAMAREE STRICKLAND
C 6 10 270 FR
Has never played an NCAA game, but has experience of one year in college and I assume has been working on body and conditioning.
4 GARY CLARK
PF 6 7 215 FR
Has never played an NCAA game.
5 JERMAINE LAWRENCE
PF 6 9 205 SO
1 year experience as back up. Staying physically healthy?
6 SHAQUILLE THOMAS
SF 6 7 205 JR
Experienced returning starter.
7 JERMAINE SANDERS
SF 6 5 210 SR
Returning back-up player.
8 TROY CAUPAIN
PG/SG 6 3 200 SO
Returning soph back-up point.
9 GE'LAWN GUYN
SG/PG 6 2 185 SR
Returning starting point guard. Physically healthy?
10 KEVIN JOHNSON
SG 6 2 180 SO
Returning soph back-up shooting guard. Physical stamina for significant increase in playing time?
11 DESHAUN MORMAN
SG 6 3 190 FR
Has never played an NCAA game, but has experience of one year in college.

A lot riding on at least three players being able to step up their games. For sure Shaq, point and shooting guard.

It is easy to see why Mick and his assistants are looking to sign at least one more seasoned player for the back court.

Gonna be an up 04-cheers and down 03-banghead season.

1. I think Gary Clark is closer to 6"6 than he is to 6"9, at least according to other sites, but I hope you are right.
2. Of course the newcomers have no NCAA experience....
 
03-23-2014 08:25 AM
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JPBearcat3 Offline
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RE: Recent Recruiting Classes
All this is assuming everyone is back next year. I don't have any inside info, but all too often the roster at the end of the season doesn't include a guy we thought was coming back.
 
03-23-2014 07:28 PM
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nachoman91 Offline
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RE: Recent Recruiting Classes
(03-21-2014 03:50 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  It all comes down to the players so sure the more talent (broadly defined), the better and so yeah it would be great if we signed mostly top 50 players each year. But that doesn't always make for a great team (e.g. Kentucky) and more importantly probably isn't all that realistic.

Somebody here recently called Izzo the best coach in the country. That's debatable but he's clearly one of the best and here's some of his thoughts on the matter:

Quote: He has made a few tough decisions, starting with this: He is done chasing the best players in the country. Chasing one a year, that's fine, but beyond that? Not worth it.

The world of top-10 recruits is not Izzo's world. Fans speculate about cheating, and that surely happens, but that is only part of it. As Izzo says, "It's very difficult ... there are so many influential factors." There are too many hangers-on, too many voices in player's ears, too many agendas. Izzo is starting to realize: Even if he had landed some of those top players, he might not like coaching them.

We're on the right track imo. I like what we've got coming in next year and we may not be done yet. Just stay the course with Mick and the success will continue to grow.

I don't think anyone here thinks UC needs to suddenly start landing multiple 5-star recruits every year to be successful. Its just that your whole team can be all 3-star recruits.

Right now comparing UC to Mich St.....
UC has (1) 5-star recruit and (1) 4-star recruit on the entire roster
Mich St has (3) 5-star recruits and (4) 4-star recruits

HUGE difference.

Moreover, Mich St has had at least one 4 and 5 star recruit in each of the last three classes so they are very balanced with upper talent up and down the classes. Thats another HUGE difference.
 
03-24-2014 07:46 AM
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RE: Recent Recruiting Classes
I am not worried about how many stars a player is rated. I trust that coaches know who the good players are will recruit them. UC is a program that has developed good players into great players so grabbing a bunch of 5 star prospects that are one and done isn't going to happen. I am interested to see how returning players improve next season. Upperclassman improvement has been a key factor in the programs return to national scene. SK, Parker, Bishop, Jackson, and Dixon were so much better at the end of their careers than they were when they arrived on campus.
 
03-24-2014 08:06 AM
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Marcus Offline
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RE: Recent Recruiting Classes
(03-24-2014 07:46 AM)nachoman91 Wrote:  
(03-21-2014 03:50 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:  It all comes down to the players so sure the more talent (broadly defined), the better and so yeah it would be great if we signed mostly top 50 players each year. But that doesn't always make for a great team (e.g. Kentucky) and more importantly probably isn't all that realistic.

Somebody here recently called Izzo the best coach in the country. That's debatable but he's clearly one of the best and here's some of his thoughts on the matter:

Quote: He has made a few tough decisions, starting with this: He is done chasing the best players in the country. Chasing one a year, that's fine, but beyond that? Not worth it.

The world of top-10 recruits is not Izzo's world. Fans speculate about cheating, and that surely happens, but that is only part of it. As Izzo says, "It's very difficult ... there are so many influential factors." There are too many hangers-on, too many voices in player's ears, too many agendas. Izzo is starting to realize: Even if he had landed some of those top players, he might not like coaching them.

We're on the right track imo. I like what we've got coming in next year and we may not be done yet. Just stay the course with Mick and the success will continue to grow.

I don't think anyone here thinks UC needs to suddenly start landing multiple 5-star recruits every year to be successful. Its just that your whole team can be all 3-star recruits.

Right now comparing UC to Mich St.....
UC has (1) 5-star recruit and (1) 4-star recruit on the entire roster
Mich St has (3) 5-star recruits and (4) 4-star recruits

HUGE difference.

Moreover, Mich St has had at least one 4 and 5 star recruit in each of the last three classes so they are very balanced with upper talent up and down the classes. Thats another HUGE difference.

This. The talent disparity is definitely there. They simply need to upgrade from a talent perspective. Mick is doing a fine job with what he has, but to reach that next level they need to land higher level players far more consistently.
 
03-24-2014 08:08 AM
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nachoman91 Offline
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RE: Recent Recruiting Classes
(03-24-2014 08:06 AM)bearcatlawjd Wrote:  I am not worried about how many stars a player is rated. I trust that coaches know who the good players are will recruit them. UC is a program that has developed good players into great players so grabbing a bunch of 5 star prospects that are one and done isn't going to happen. I am interested to see how returning players improve next season. Upperclassman improvement has been a key factor in the programs return to national scene. SK, Parker, Bishop, Jackson, and Dixon were so much better at the end of their careers than they were when they arrived on campus.

To ignore the recruiting rankings and star system in basketball is sticking your head in the sand. Sure, the coaches know who the good players are, but landing them is the difficult part and Mick simply isn't landing enough talent to be a consistent threat.

Sure, there are going to be teams left in the tournament that have won despite having lower ranked recruits. But by and large those are anomolies. The final four, final two, and national champions .... ON AVERAGE .... will have much higher ranked recruits than UC does.

And stop using the one-and-done analogies. Those are the elite top 5 players every year. No one is saying Mick needs to recruit those guys. There's still 95 other players out there with a 4 or 5 star ranking that is the upper level talent it takes to win consistently.
 
03-24-2014 08:29 AM
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RE: Recent Recruiting Classes
(03-24-2014 08:29 AM)nachoman91 Wrote:  Sure, there are going to be teams left in the tournament that have won despite having lower ranked recruits. But by and large those are anomolies. The final four, final two, and national champions .... ON AVERAGE .... will have much higher ranked recruits than UC does.

Those teams that are successful in the tourney with lower rated recruits tend to be Senior heavy with guys that have been with a Coach/System 4 or 5 years.
 
03-24-2014 08:49 AM
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