In the Requiem for the Big East, they mentioned a few times that Paterno wanted to start an eastern-based all sports conference in the late 70s/early 80s.

Does anyone has any more info on this?...The proposed teams (other than Penn State) and why this never got off the ground?

Penn State
Pitt
Temple
Boston College
Syracuse
West Virginia
Rutgers
Maryland

That was what Paterno wanted.

(03-18-2014 09:01 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  Penn State
Pitt
Temple
Boston College
Syracuse
West Virginia
Rutgers
Maryland

That was what Paterno wanted.

As a Temple fan, this is my dream league...plus 2 other teams for a nice 10 team league (Va. Tech & UConn).

Surprised that Paterno was willing to include both Temple and Pitt.

(03-18-2014 09:08 PM)nightoftheowls Wrote:  

(03-18-2014 09:01 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  Penn State
Pitt
Temple
Boston College
Syracuse
West Virginia
Rutgers
Maryland

That was what Paterno wanted.

As a Temple fan, this is my dream league...plus 2 other teams for a nice 10 team league (Va. Tech & UConn).

Surprised that Paterno was willing to include both Temple and Pitt.

it was a much different era back then. psu was a lot more willing to wheel and deal with those schools at first. but within a few years PSU's ego effectively crushed their relationship with all those schools.

just remember that uconn football wouldn't become FBS for another 2 decades and their Basketball was a bottom feeder at this point in time.

(03-18-2014 09:14 PM)john01992 Wrote:  just remember that uconn football wouldn't become FBS for another 2 decades and their Basketball was a bottom feeder at this point in time.

Good point...With UConn, that's my 2014 dream league.

(03-18-2014 08:47 PM)nightoftheowls Wrote:  In the Requiem for the Big East, they mentioned a few times that Paterno wanted to start an eastern-based all sports conference in the late 70s/early 80s.

Does anyone has any more info on this?...The proposed teams (other than Penn State) and why this never got off the ground?

PSU wasnt willing to be equal partners. Syracue and BC werent willing to leave the BE to start a new all sport league. although they did want PSU to join the BE

I don't believe Paterno ever envisioned Maryland as a member of his proposed all sports eastern conference. Maybe Villanova, Delaware, Massachusetts or Rhode Island but not Maryland. I think Paterno may have considered the ACC as a southern-based, Mid-Atlantic conference. Perhaps that's the reason why he never sought ACC membership for PSU.

(03-18-2014 09:59 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  I don't believe Paterno ever envisioned Maryland as a member of his proposed all sports eastern conference. Maybe Villanova, Delaware, Massachusetts or Rhode Island but not Maryland. I think Paterno may have considered the ACC as a southern-based, Mid-Atlantic conference. Perhaps that's the reason why he never sought ACC membership for PSU.

No, he definitely wanted Maryland. The question is whether Maryland would have decided to leave the ACC at that point.

(03-18-2014 10:21 PM)MKPitt Wrote:  

(03-18-2014 09:59 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  I don't believe Paterno ever envisioned Maryland as a member of his proposed all sports eastern conference. Maybe Villanova, Delaware, Massachusetts or Rhode Island but not Maryland. I think Paterno may have considered the ACC as a southern-based, Mid-Atlantic conference. Perhaps that's the reason why he never sought ACC membership for PSU.

No, he definitely wanted Maryland. The question is whether Maryland would have decided to leave the ACC at that point.

Yeah, he wanted the Terps. He also mentioned OSU. I have a hard time figuring how bad the Big Ten had to be for the Buckeyes to drop all those rivals to add schools that had little to no history with them.

I don't think he wanted VT. Or, rather, VT wasn't on the radar as much as Army and Navy. And back then, the SA's were more game for it.

It was a pretty out-there idea. Temple had a guy, Ernie Casale (?), who had something similar in mind before Paterno, but when PSU passed, so did the SA's. That pretty much killed it.

As a kid I remember rumors of rumblings of Maryland not being thrilled with the ACC in the 1980s. By the 1980s, Maryland was much more I-95 than Tobacco Road.

(03-18-2014 09:01 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  Penn State
Pitt
Temple
Boston College
Syracuse
West Virginia
Rutgers
Maryland

That was what Paterno wanted.

Swap out Temple and WVU for UVA and VTech.

(03-18-2014 09:32 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  

(03-18-2014 08:47 PM)nightoftheowls Wrote:  In the Requiem for the Big East, they mentioned a few times that Paterno wanted to start an eastern-based all sports conference in the late 70s/early 80s.

Does anyone has any more info on this?...The proposed teams (other than Penn State) and why this never got off the ground?

PSU wasnt willing to be equal partners. Syracue and BC werent willing to leave the BE to start a new all sport league. although they did want PSU to join the BE

This is a largely forgotten and critical piece of the context of the Big East's decision-making. The headline is always, "The Big East rejected Penn State in 1980s! How were they that stupid?!" The fine print, though, was that Paterno's proposal for an eastern league was that schools would keep 100% of their own football revenue (which obviously was a massive advantage for PSU with its top tier football program) while having equal revenue sharing for basketball (another huge advantage for PSU with its bottom tier basketball program). The league would have been so financially stacked in PSU's favor that Texas looks like brothers-in-arms with the rest of the Big 12 by comparison. Make no mistake about it: the eastern league would not have been set up with anything close to the equal revenue sharing that the Big Ten and SEC had (and have)l, and that's why it wasn't ever formed.

(03-19-2014 09:14 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-18-2014 09:32 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  PSU wasnt willing to be equal partners. Syracue and BC werent willing to leave the BE to start a new all sport league. although they did want PSU to join the BE

This is a largely forgotten and critical piece of the context of the Big East's decision-making. The headline is always, "The Big East rejected Penn State in 1980s! How were they that stupid?!" The fine print, though, was that Paterno's proposal for an eastern league was that schools would keep 100% of their own football revenue (which obviously was a massive advantage for PSU with its top tier football program) while having equal revenue sharing for basketball (another huge advantage for PSU with its bottom tier basketball program). The league would have been so financially stacked in PSU's favor that Texas looks like brothers-in-arms with the rest of the Big 12 by comparison. Make no mistake about it: the eastern league would not have been set up with anything close to the equal revenue sharing that the Big Ten and SEC had (and have)l, and that's why it wasn't ever formed.

I thought that was the reason the three football schools didn't join Paterno's league, NOT why the Big East presidents voted down the inclusion of Penn State to the Big East.

I was looking forward to "Requiem for the BE", and it was good - if you were a 'Cuse or Hoya fan. They paid too little attention IMO to the football deal. You can Google "Penn State Big East" and find some interesting articles on that subject. Basically, Joe wanted the schools mentioned above, including UMD, in 1979, then tried about 1981-82 to join the now-established BE. He needed 6 votes but received only 5. Supposedly 3 BB schools voted against PSU. Later some speculation arose that Syracuse voted him down, bur Tranghese denied that.

Too bad. It would have made a good 8-10 team FB league and slowed expansion by the P5 conferences.

(03-19-2014 09:14 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-18-2014 09:32 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  

(03-18-2014 08:47 PM)nightoftheowls Wrote:  In the Requiem for the Big East, they mentioned a few times that Paterno wanted to start an eastern-based all sports conference in the late 70s/early 80s.

Does anyone has any more info on this?...The proposed teams (other than Penn State) and why this never got off the ground?

PSU wasnt willing to be equal partners. Syracue and BC werent willing to leave the BE to start a new all sport league. although they did want PSU to join the BE

This is a largely forgotten and critical piece of the context of the Big East's decision-making. The headline is always, "The Big East rejected Penn State in 1980s! How were they that stupid?!" The fine print, though, was that Paterno's proposal for an eastern league was that schools would keep 100% of their own football revenue (which obviously was a massive advantage for PSU with its top tier football program) while having equal revenue sharing for basketball (another huge advantage for PSU with its bottom tier basketball program). The league would have been so financially stacked in PSU's favor that Texas looks like brothers-in-arms with the rest of the Big 12 by comparison. Make no mistake about it: the eastern league would not have been set up with anything close to the equal revenue sharing that the Big Ten and SEC had (and have)l, and that's why it wasn't ever formed.

But that was for Paterno's conference. If PSU joined the Big East, they would have gone in on the Big East terms. To Georgetown and St. John's, PSU would have been another Seton Hall or Connecticut (at that time).

If PSU had gone in, they still might have gone to the Big 10 later in the 80s. There's no guarantee that the Big East would have started football, or that by the time they did consider it, State Penn would already have left.

(03-19-2014 09:01 AM)Hitch Wrote:  Swap out Temple and WVU for UVA and VTech

Most people don't know this, but Temple football was actually at the top of their game in the late 1970s...in 1979, they finished the year ranked in the top #25 and drew pretty well at the old Veterans Stadium.

Unfortunately, when head coach Wayne Hardin retired in early 1980s, everything went downhill for the next 25 years until Al Golden arrived.

(03-19-2014 05:58 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  As a kid I remember rumors of rumblings of Maryland not being thrilled with the ACC in the 1980s. By the 1980s, Maryland was much more I-95 than Tobacco Road.

Maryland's never been happy with the officiating, which it believed favored Carolina and Duke, and the fact that the tournament was infrequently located outside of North Carolina. Otherwise everything was fine. Also, Maryland opposed expansion.

You guys have mostly nailed it with some minor corrections:

1.) Paterno wanted a 10-team league, not an eight team league. The teams he envisioned comprising his league were:
1.) Penn State
2.) Pitt
3.) Syracuse
4.) Boston College
5.) West Virginia
6.) Rutgers
7.) Temple
8.) Army
9.) Navy
10.) Maryland

There was never any talk of non-Northeastern indies like Miami, Florida State, South Carolina, etc., joining the league. It was purely Northeastern in every way. Paterno always claimed that Maryland was willing to go but who knows if that was actually true? That man said a lot of things that were not exactly truthful so who knows? One thing I can tell you is that nobody from Maryland ever corroborated his claims.

Maybe that Southern expansion would have come later and wouldn't that have been neat had it come to pass? However that's all Dungeons and Dragons stuff. That super alignment was not even close to being on the Paterno League radar at the time.

Also, at that time UConn was a complete non-factor. We all saw them in the same way one today might look at say, Delaware or Vermont. Also, Virginia Tech had yet to blossom and was viewed in the same light as say, East Carolina; a nice little program but certainly not big time.

That seems ludicrous in retrospect but that was the mentality of the time: that Army and Temple were bonafide big time schools but Virginia Tech was not.

2.) Frank nailed the primary problem and that was that Penn State wanted all of the benefits that go along with conference membership without actually making any of the sacrifices that come along with such an arrangement.

I certainly don't blame the man for trying as that was his job - to maximize Penn State's wealth and power. The truth is Paterno was masterful at that particular art and did it as well as any college figure I have ever seen. Paterno was way ahead of his time in using the meadia to his advantage and understanding how to create propaganda by controlling the message. The only other coach in history that even compares was Knute Rockne, who was so far ahead of his time on the propaganda front that he has to be considered a genius.

People either don't know this or have long since forgotten but at that time we are discussing (late 70s, early 80s), in addition to being Penn State's football coach, Paterno also served as his school's athletic director. I think it has become crystal clear to most everyone by now that he served as the school's unofficial athletics director right up until his retirement/death but he was their official AD during the period whn these discussions were taking place and he was not a man known for his ability to compromise. It was CLEARLY his way or the highway and that that didn't comply, were simply excommunicated.

Frank laid out everything very well in explaining why the Paterno League never came together but by 1981-82, he had realized that he had overplayed his hand and lost most of his leverage. That's when he tried to make nicey-nice with the Big East.

The problem of course was that by then nobody trusted the man who had for the years leading up to that point did everything he could to strong arm and/or undermine those schools.

That is the real reason he couldn't get that sixth vote. The Georgetowns and Villanovas of the world were very worried about letting the fox in the hen house - and for good reason. Anyone remotely familiar with the man and his history can tell you that it would have been a matter or a year or two before he would have started dictating everything he could about the league and its direction. Also, he would have definitely - not probably, definitely - used that B1G invite as leverage against the Big East to see who could have given him the best deal. That's just who he always was: utterly brilliant but nearly impossible to trust.

Here's a story to illustrate my point.

Prior to joining the Big East, Pitt was in a league called the Eastern Athletic Association or the Eastern 8. Today that league is the Atlantic 10 but it was a completely different league back then.

From Pitt's perspective it was awesome because our arch rivals were always Penn State, West Virginia and Duquesne and they were all members of the E8. There were other members as well including Villanova, George Washington and Rutgers but to us the focus was always on Pitt, PSU, WVU and DU. We even used to play the conference tournament in the old Civic Arena and they were wild, great games with passionate fan bases and LOTS of fist fights on the court and in the stands. It was awesome!

Also, you have to understand that at the time, all four programs were relatively similar with Duquesne probably being the best of that bunch on average. That seems odd in retrospect but at that time the Dukes were probably the best program in the area followed by WVU, then Pitt and last was always Penn State.

Anyway, Paterno and Penn State always seemed to have some problem with some aspect of the league. They would constantly file protests about opposing teams' behavior or the officials or the fans' behavior or the tournament's location. It just never stopped.

So the one year at the league's meetings they demanded some change or another and it came up for a vote and the league's membership voted 7-1 against whatever change Paterno was demanding.

In response to that legislative setback, one night in the middle of the night during the middle of the league's meetings, as everyone slept in their hotel rooms, Penn State's SID at the time Tim Curley - whom Paterno would later anoint as AD - literally slipped Penn State's letter of resignation under everyone's door and they skipped town.

I don't remember what the issue was because frankly, it doesn't matter. The point is that is NOT how you treat your partners and it goes a long way in helping to provide context for why there was such little trust for Paterno and Penn State when they began trying to sell their all sports league concept. I think it also tells you why Penn State remained a free agent until 1989 when they joined the Big Ten.

I can't believe I forgot Army and Navy. You get so used to thinking in today's views sometimes. Army/Navy along with Penn State and Pitt were Eastern Football.