(03-15-2014 08:34 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 08:27 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  Oooops, didn't mea to add an "e".

Then go in and correct it!

Sounds good but I didn't have much luck editing. Another way to say what you did would be: " You can edit the title if you blah blah blah. Hope that helps and thanks for the kind words".

(03-15-2014 08:59 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  Kalamazoo is 4 to 4 1/2 hours away. It took the team over 11 hours to make that trip by bus because of an accident. They got in at 5:30 a.m. Friday morning and played Akron that night.

Yea, that traffic jam was no joke. At the same time on Thursday, all the major east/west routes in northern central Ohio were closed. I was traveling in that area for work Thursday morning and was caught in it. Then saw 15+ miles of what looked like near standstill Thursday evening.

(03-15-2014 09:12 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 08:34 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 08:27 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  Oooops, didn't mea to add an "e".

Then go in and correct it!

Sounds good but I didn't have much luck editing. Another way to say what you did would be: " You can edit the title if you blah blah blah. Hope that helps and thanks for the kind words".

My bad Sensitive. I stand admonished. Your intent was clear. I do appreciate the sentiments. I hope the Rockets do get a favorable NIT offer and make the best of it. The kids deserve a chance at post season play.

(03-15-2014 09:23 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 09:12 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 08:34 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 08:27 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  Oooops, didn't mea to add an "e".

Then go in and correct it!

Sounds good but I didn't have much luck editing. Another way to say what you did would be: " You can edit the title if you blah blah blah. Hope that helps and thanks for the kind words".

My bad Sensitive. I stand admonished. Your intent was clear. I do appreciate the sentiments. I hope the Rockets do get a favorable NIT offer and make the best of it.
The kids deserve a chance at post season play.

That's MR. Sensitive to you! Anyway I still can't get rid of the "e" and I'm feeling all Dan Quaylish about it.

(03-15-2014 08:55 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 08:49 PM)chuckwalker Wrote:  As a Clevelander one number I wasn't too happy with was 5,278- that was the attendance for tonight's final. WAY under any other year played on a Saturday (I think in the past 9K was about the lowest)

Toledo vs WMU is certainly not the top draw- BUT
1) It was the top 2 teams in the conference
2) Toledo was tops or second in home attendance and is just 2 hours away
3) If Kzoo is only 4 hours away

I am afraid this game has lost its place among the Cleveland calendar. While I think there is merit to this tournament set up for the teams- I think the old 8 to Cleveland- Thursday/Friday/Saturday was better for the weekend. I also think the loss of the STO contract hurt the local attendance- STO is a channel of choice in greater Cleveland- TWC (if you get it) not so much. I know college basketball in general is losing appeal. But I was shocked at how empty it was tonight (and yesterday with Akron in the semis only had 6,800). The tournament also lost its title sponsor with First Energy- it was presented by Barbasol- but it wasn't a title sponsor- Barbasol logo was not on the court. The MAC office has done a lot of good things over the last couple years- but I am worried this basketball tournament has lost its spot.

I'll say it again - the Huntington Center in Toledo would be great for the tournament - both men and women. Holds 8k for hockey, so could be 8,500-9,000 for basketball. Create a great atmosphere in a sold out arena.

This

(03-15-2014 10:34 PM)Kimbosucks Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 08:55 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 08:49 PM)chuckwalker Wrote:  As a Clevelander one number I wasn't too happy with was 5,278- that was the attendance for tonight's final. WAY under any other year played on a Saturday (I think in the past 9K was about the lowest)

Toledo vs WMU is certainly not the top draw- BUT
1) It was the top 2 teams in the conference
2) Toledo was tops or second in home attendance and is just 2 hours away
3) If Kzoo is only 4 hours away

I am afraid this game has lost its place among the Cleveland calendar. While I think there is merit to this tournament set up for the teams- I think the old 8 to Cleveland- Thursday/Friday/Saturday was better for the weekend. I also think the loss of the STO contract hurt the local attendance- STO is a channel of choice in greater Cleveland- TWC (if you get it) not so much. I know college basketball in general is losing appeal. But I was shocked at how empty it was tonight (and yesterday with Akron in the semis only had 6,800). The tournament also lost its title sponsor with First Energy- it was presented by Barbasol- but it wasn't a title sponsor- Barbasol logo was not on the court. The MAC office has done a lot of good things over the last couple years- but I am worried this basketball tournament has lost its spot.

I'll say it again - the Huntington Center in Toledo would be great for the tournament - both men and women. Holds 8k for hockey, so could be 8,500-9,000 for basketball. Create a great atmosphere in a sold out arena.

This

Western team had its best season in 10 years and they were still below average in attendance for the MAC in Kalamazoo. The problem is Western's fans (among many other apathetic MAC fan bases), not the location of the tournament.

Figures you'd have misspelling in the thread title when it's started by a fan from Toledoe.


Posted from the CSNbbs App.

I went to the MAC tournament many years ago when it was hosted by UT at Savage Arena, and yes, the attendance was pretty good with a good atmosphere for the game, but the tournament in Cleveland has been a huge success since and normally we have a fairly local MAC team (Akron, Kent, or OU which has a great fan base) in the semi's and finals which typically results in excellent attendance. Having a Michigan-based MAC team in the finals obviously hurts the attendance, but in most years we'll see an Ohio-based MAC school in the finals, so I wouldn't panic over one year of poor attendance.

(03-15-2014 10:00 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 09:23 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 09:12 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 08:34 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 08:27 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  Oooops, didn't mea to add an "e".

Then go in and correct it!

Sounds good but I didn't have much luck editing. Another way to say what you did would be: " You can edit the title if you blah blah blah. Hope that helps and thanks for the kind words".

My bad Sensitive. I stand admonished. Your intent was clear. I do appreciate the sentiments. I hope the Rockets do get a favorable NIT offer and make the best of it.
The kids deserve a chance at post season play.

That's MR. Sensitive to you! Anyway I still can't get rid of the "e" and I'm feeling all Dan Quaylish about it.

As long as you dont come off like Al Gore your solid in my book.

(03-15-2014 11:41 PM)exCincy Kid1 Wrote:  I went to the MAC tournament many years ago when it was hosted by UT at Savage Arena, and yes, the attendance was pretty good with a good atmosphere for the game, but the tournament in Cleveland has been a huge success since and normally we have a fairly local MAC team (Akron, Kent, or OU which has a great fan base) in the semi's and finals which typically results in excellent attendance. Having a Michigan-based MAC team in the finals obviously hurts the attendance, but in most years we'll see an Ohio-based MAC school in the finals, so I wouldn't panic over one year of poor attendance.

There was an Ohio based MAC school in the finals and that school resides less than 90 minutes away from Cleveland. Nice try though, but your state wanted Toledo before Michigan was granted statehood. So, a compromise was made. You got Toledo and we got the U.P. Now you want to disown Toledo? Nice try but we don't want Toledo back.

You all claim that if Akron, Kent State or Ohio were in the game prove it. Put the game in Toledo where the Walleye play. That location would be more centrally located to all MAC schools, not just Ohio MAC schools. This is the MAC not the OVC, if you want it to cater to all Ohio teams than move to the OVC. Tournaments are not designed to make travel easy but to determine who the best in that tournament.

So sell the conference on how this location is better for fans: how many restaurants, bars and hotels are within walking distance compared to Quicken Loans? What would the fan atmosphere going to be like for those fans who go for multiple days? If it is not an inviting area for fans to hang out, fewer fans will go.

The MAC has shown it can put 10k plus in Cleveland with the right match ups. Why would it move to a smaller arena just because of a year when two teams played who drew poorly? This year was an exception. One would also assume if those teams continue to be strong, they will build a better traveling fan base. Toledo is about 100 miles to Cleveland. Athens is over 200 miles. No reason Toledo can't equal the KSU, Akron, and Ohio U fan turnouts in Cleveland--certainly there are a lot of UT alums in NE Ohio.

I don't think I am making my point correctly. Of course the attendance will always be best if the teams end up close to the venue. But I was at the MAC tournament final games in the Seagate Center in Toledo for games that drew 3,500. I was at Cobo Hall for game that was lucky to have 2,000 between Miami and Ball State. I think Columbus had a BSU vs WMU final with 3,000. The fact is Cleveland has been the best venue for 15 years- no doubt about it- and it isn't just Akron vs Kent. In fact- the highest attended game was Kent vs BG (14K)- my guess is that same game wouldn't have sold out the Huntington Center in Toledo. Ohio vs Buffalo played in front of 11K in the mid 2000's- neither team close to Cleveland- what do you think that draws in Toledo? 5K? Maybe.

My point is the amount of Clevelanders that just attend the game for fun (no team involved) has gone way way down over time, but especially in the last couple years. I went to games Wednesday night, Friday night and Saturday night this year and I have gone to most of the sessions since 2000.

The total attendance for the 4 sessions this year was 11K- half of last year's 22K. And while the finals was Toledo vs WMU- the semis included Akron and Thursday night included Akron vs. Ohio. Thursday night session drew 2K with Akron vs Ohio. That same game 5 years ago would have drawn 4K-5K - I remember a Thursday day session about 7 years ago that was 4,500 for Ohio vs Miami and thought it was a decline from prior years.

The tournament isn't about the right match ups. It's about finding who is the best team at that time and representing the MAC in the NCAA tournament. Cleveland is in Akron and Kent State's back yard. Of course they are going to draw over 10,000 on days they play. If yesterday's game would have been Bowling Green vs. Toledo at the arena the Toledo Walleye play in, in the ECHL there probably would have been more than 10,000 at the game.

Ohio, Kent State and Akron fans whine that Toledo isn't centrally located for the MAC Tournament. Well apparently you all don't do your homework so as a professional driver I did it for you.

I took the five schools that are farthest away:
West: DeKalb, IL (NIU)
East: Buffalo, NY
North: Mt. Pleasnt, MI (CMU)
South: Muncie, IN (Ball State)
Ohio: Athens, OH (Ohio)

And I searched the distance to both Cleveland and Toledo:

DeKalb to Cleveland 406 miles (farthest distance to the current tournament location)
DeKalb to Toledo. 306 miles

Buffalo to Cleveland 193 miles
Buffalo to Toledo. 308 miles (farthes distance by two miles to central location)

Mt. Pleasant to Cleveland 300 miles
Mt. Pleasant to Toledo 182 miles

Muncie to Cleveland 280 miles
Muncie to Toledo 180 miles

Athens to Cleveland 217 miles
Athens to Toledo 228 miles

Wow, right now as it stands one team has to go more than 400 miles and to teams have less than 50 miles to drive. If the game was moved to the Arena the Walleye play in, no team would be more than 308 miles away and two teams would be less than 30 miles away and poor Ohio Bobcats fans would have to add one bone crushing, gasoline guzzling mile. Oh, the horror.

Nobody is saying it isn't centrally located: I have noted many times on this forum that the geographic center of the conference is approximately Findlay, OH. What Cleveland offers besides a much larger population base is a facility that can handle large crowds when needed and has great amenities within walking distance of the arena. The larger fan bases have set up camp in the many great bars in the area, there is lots of hotel space and all right there. It's a great atmosphere. It's as much fun between the games as the games themselves. I have had some of the best times I have ever had following college basketball down at Flannery's Pub packed with KSU fans, and gone to the Winking Lizard et. al. to meet up with other fan bases, talk hoops with all sorts of people.

I have no idea if this facility in Toledo has a good location for the event or not. Somebody that knows it want to chime in? What is there within walking distance? Are there places for MAC fans to congregate? Hotels?

Buffalo and NIU are going to have longer travel, period. But they just seem longer because the MAC is one of the most compact conferences in the country. The other distances just aren't significant. 100 miles or so just isn't that big a deal one way or another. If there is a better area to hold the tournament in that can outdo the Q and its surrounding amenities, great. Let's go there. I just don't know where that is. I have no problem with the distance: I live about 100 miles closer to Toledo than Cleveland anyway.

I do know that if you just put the tourney in an arena without the surrounding support, it will draw flies. The MAC has already done that: that's why it was moved to Cleveland where it has been a great success. Even in a poor attendance year, it is better than the older venues the MAC tried.

I had a great time in Cleveland and it was a first-rate production all the way. Decently long drive from Kalamazoo, but someone's always going to be far away.

I don't know much about downtown Toledo but I did a Google search for Huntington Center, Toledo, OH and from what I saw it is a pretty nice place. And if the attendance is down at Cleveland maybe moving it to an 8,000 seat stadium is the right move. What is better for the conference an 8,000 seat stadium that is 3/4 full or 20,500 seat stadium that is 3/4 empty?

(03-16-2014 11:15 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  I had a great time in Cleveland and it was a first-rate production all the way. Decently long drive from Kalamazoo, but someone's always going to be far away.

This.

Is there anyone who goes who doesn't think it's a great setup? Any new place would need to be better, not just miles closer.

If distance is the biggest factor we could have it at Findlay University:

(03-16-2014 09:29 AM)axeme Wrote:  So sell the conference on how this location is better for fans: how many restaurants, bars and hotels are within walking distance compared to Quicken Loans? What would the fan atmosphere going to be like for those fans who go for multiple days? If it is not an inviting area for fans to hang out, fewer fans will go.

The MAC has shown it can put 10k plus in Cleveland with the right match ups. Why would it move to a smaller arena just because of a year when two teams played who drew poorly? This year was an exception. One would also assume if those teams continue to be strong, they will build a better traveling fan base. Toledo is about 100 miles to Cleveland. Athens is over 200 miles. No reason Toledo can't equal the KSU, Akron, and Ohio U fan turnouts in Cleveland--certainly there are a lot of UT alums in NE Ohio.

First off congrats to WMU !! By far the best rep for the MAC in the NCAA tourney.

Downtown Toledo, though not on a par with Cleveland has three downtown hotels (approximately 1000 rooms) within a few blocks of Huntington Center. There are also a multitude of eating establishments/bars in the warehouse district. Both cities have casinos nearby and Toledo can offer a world class museum and zoo 5-10 minutes away from the arena. Toledo, on a smaller scale than Cleveland still has a lot to offer for the general fan experience. As far as arena size, Huntington Center is considerably smaller than Quicken Loans (8-9000 seats for basketball and concerts) but is much newer and definitely a first class venue like the Q.
As you pointed out in another post, Findlay, Ohio is the central point (location wise) of the MAC and Toledo is only 40 miles to the north on I-75...

(03-16-2014 11:10 AM)axeme Wrote:  Nobody is saying it isn't centrally located: I have noted many times on this forum that the geographic center of the conference is approximately Findlay, OH.

Actually somebody said that it was hogwash to say Toledo was more centrally located. I think the mileage comparison was in response to that. Cleveland is OK , but like Toledo it's a home game for two schools. For conference exposure and fan experience Cleveland clearly gets the nod.

The Idea that the event would be housed at a MAC teams home is absurd...I've got 11 other head coaches whose heads would explode.
As a Bronco, I'll leave the conjecture regarding blah, blah, blah to you folks..In the meantime, I think I'll bask in the glory of being MAC champs...
GO BRONCS...