Oh, and since I've stopped avoiding this thread, this is not the worst case for the BE. We're still likely to have the National Player of the Year Dougie McBuckets playing in the BET final, Xavier solidified a bid and PRovidence is looking likely. If Xavier had gone down, or Creighton along with Villanova, that would be a worst-case.

If we were writing a movie script, would we want one of Villanova/ST John/Georgetown in the semifinals? Yes. Ideally, we'd want New Big East power Creighton vs an Old Big East power in the finals. But this isn't WWE, you play the games. And the Garden is rocking, so things will be fine.

(03-14-2014 04:27 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  First of all, Cincinnati is a good program. It's just that Cincy's periods of greatness didn't overlap with their Big East membership.

Second of all, #7 all time in wins.

And zero championships.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

(03-13-2014 09:47 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(03-13-2014 09:40 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  

(03-13-2014 07:57 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(03-13-2014 05:28 PM)Dasville Wrote:  

(03-13-2014 05:17 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  Georgetown, Butler, Villanova, St. John's, and one of Marq and Xavier will all go winless in the conference tourney.

Creighton and one of Marq and Xavier are the only two name teams that have a shot at winning a conference tourney game.

Obviously there is still the NCAA tourney to regain respect, this is only one tourney in year one of the media contract so there is plenty of time to right the ship. However, I can't imagine a realistic scenario that hurts Fox's position more. Personally, I was hoping for an 80's style made for TV brawl in MSG with conference hardware on the line.

Maybe next year...

Potential big "local interest" does not = marginal "national interest". The catholic 7 would have been better off sticking to the incoming AAC teams and keeping it the "Big East".

IMO, the three C7 schools that were nationally relevant got that way because they were part of a Big East that included schools like UConn, Syracuse, West Virginia, Pitt, Notre Dame, Louisville and Cincinnati. Without them, I expect recruiting to suffer, and all the Creightons in the world won't keep the New Big East on a level ahead of the A-10 or MVC.

Cincinatti? really?

i'd say they are a pretty solid program.

they arent bad, but since joining the BE they are hardly at the same level as louisville uconn or syracuse. Cincy had only one seed higher than 7 (in BE tourney)since it joined the BE. just my opinion

(03-14-2014 01:30 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(03-13-2014 09:37 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  yes sure is the worse case scenario when the 2nd 3rd and 4th seeds are all still alive...
maybe next year the 5th and 7th seeds can play in the championship game since they may have "historic" programs...

A Duke v. Wake ACCCG in football would be horrible for the Atlantic Coast Conference, even if those teams did field the best teams in the conference. Don't let your absolute blindness get in the way of the fact that it's better for the conference when teams with fan support/the hope of fan support win. In other words, don't bite the hand that feeds you. However, it's almost poetic/cliché that a Provence fan doesn't understand that point...

at least providence beat BC this year.
i understand that

(03-14-2014 05:25 PM)mlb Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 04:27 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  First of all, Cincinnati is a good program. It's just that Cincy's periods of greatness didn't overlap with their Big East membership.

Second of all, #7 all time in wins.

And zero championships.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Yeah, unless you count their two NCAA titles.

(03-14-2014 07:26 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 05:25 PM)mlb Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 04:27 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  First of all, Cincinnati is a good program. It's just that Cincy's periods of greatness didn't overlap with their Big East membership.

Second of all, #7 all time in wins.

And zero championships.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Yeah, unless you count their two NCAA titles.

I was referring to St. John's and PC. I know UCs info.

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(03-13-2014 05:17 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  Georgetown, Butler, Villanova, St. John's, and one of Marq and Xavier will all go winless in the conference tourney.

Creighton and one of Marq and Xavier are the only two name teams that have a shot at winning a conference tourney game.

Obviously there is still the NCAA tourney to regain respect, this is only one tourney in year one of the media contract so there is plenty of time to right the ship. However, I can't imagine a realistic scenario that hurts Fox's position more. Personally, I was hoping for an 80's style made for TV brawl in MSG with conference hardware on the line.

Maybe next year...

The Big East is the #4 RPI conference, and has drawn a big crowd to MSG. Looks good for the conference though very forgettable year for my Hoyas.

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

Its going to be really hard for the Big East to maintain its national appeal when only Georgetown, Villanova and Xavier have any.

Creighton, while definitely worthy of the conference isn't a brand anyone gets excited to watch. Butler was a Horizon League school until a few seasons ago. Providence and Seton Hall are traditional laughing stocks of the Big East. People in the states those schools are located in love them and recognize they are serious basketball schools. Otherwise few are paying attention.

Marquette, DePaul and St. John's have name value that is maximized when playing Georgetown, Villanova or Xavier. They are fine when scheduled up against bigger names.

That is why the BE would be well served if the 11th and 12th schools were Memphis and UConn. A couple of mega names people WANT to see.

(03-14-2014 04:52 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  If we were writing a movie script, would we want one of Villanova/ST John/Georgetown in the semifinals? Yes. Ideally, we'd want New Big East power Creighton vs an Old Big East power in the finals. But this isn't WWE, you play the games. And the Garden is rocking, so things will be fine.

If you were in a NYC sports bar and requested to watch the Villanova game the response would be "oh they are on, let me find the channel for you"

If you were in a NYC sports bar and requested to watch the Creighton game the response would be "Creighton? What's that is that Soccer?"

If you requested St. John's the bartender would put it but be pissed that he has to take up a TV with such a crappy game.

Great crowd and atmosphere for Providence-Creighton. MSG is the best, I think the Big East's demise is greatly exaggerated.

"Worst-case scenario" for the Big East has ended with 4 likely tournament teams instead of the 2 or 3 most people expected. Sucks for them.

For anyone who believes the Big East is in demise, in a year in which the pundits predicted a "down year":
-we will get 4 teams out of 10 in the tourney (2 of which will get high seeds)
-#4 rated conference ahead of ACC, American and SEC
-we have the National Player of the Year
-the BET at MSG had great crowds (better attendance than last year) and games called by Gus Johnson and Bill Raftery
-TV contract that pays us more than any non football school by ALOT
-Big East 2014 recruiting class that has more top 100 recruits than any conference except the ACC (and we only have 10 teams).

Not bad for a down year. I think the Big East will be fine.

Perhaps

='Kittonhead' pid='10547998' dateline='1394871599']
Its going to be really hard for the Big East to maintain its national appeal when only Georgetown, Villanova and Xavier have any.

Creighton, while definitely worthy of the conference isn't a brand anyone gets excited to watch. Butler was a Horizon League school until a few seasons ago. Providence and Seton Hall are traditional laughing stocks of the Big East. People in the states those schools are located in love them and recognize they are serious basketball schools. Otherwise few are paying attention.

Marquette, DePaul and St. John's have name value that is maximized when playing Georgetown, Villanova or Xavier. They are fine when scheduled up against bigger names.

That is why the BE would be well served if the 11th and 12th schools were Memphis and UConn. A couple of mega names people WANT to see.
[/quote]

Perhaps you should be more concernedqwith how appealing your own conference will be without Louisville and eventually UConn and cincy. At let's not forget beingout oof the new York market once Rutgers leaves

(03-16-2014 08:51 AM)gosports1 Wrote:  Perhaps you should be more concerned with how appealing your own conference will be without Louisville and eventually UConn and Cincy. And let's not forget being out of the New York market once Rutgers leaves.

The departures of UL and Rutgers have already been factored in, which is why although The American has the best media revenues in the Go5, it fell far short of where they wanted to be.

UC leaving the American will hurt, but it will still be a multi-bid conference.

(03-14-2014 06:46 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 01:30 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(03-13-2014 09:37 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  yes sure is the worse case scenario when the 2nd 3rd and 4th seeds are all still alive...
maybe next year the 5th and 7th seeds can play in the championship game since they may have "historic" programs...

A Duke v. Wake ACCCG in football would be horrible for the Atlantic Coast Conference, even if those teams did field the best teams in the conference. Don't let your absolute blindness get in the way of the fact that it's better for the conference when teams with fan support/the hope of fan support win. In other words, don't bite the hand that feeds you. However, it's almost poetic/cliché that a Provence fan doesn't understand that point...

at least providence beat BC this year.
i understand that

Do you mean like this?
http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400502790

And while we're on the topic of common opponents, how did the 'Nova games go for you? We beat them by 16.

(03-14-2014 04:52 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Oh, and since I've stopped avoiding this thread, this is not the worst case for the BE. We're still likely to have the National Player of the Year Dougie McBuckets playing in the BET final, Xavier solidified a bid and PRovidence is looking likely. If Xavier had gone down, or Creighton along with Villanova, that would be a worst-case.

If we were writing a movie script, would we want one of Villanova/ST John/Georgetown in the semifinals? Yes. Ideally, we'd want New Big East power Creighton vs an Old Big East power in the finals. But this isn't WWE, you play the games. And the Garden is rocking, so things will be fine.

1. "Just about the worst case scenario" isn't the same as "the worst case scenario."
2. Every good thing that you mentioned happened after the thread was started.
3. The fact that it isn't scripted has no bearing on the fact that almost all the name teams dropped early.
-If it's any consolation, UNC and SU dropped from the ACC tourney prematurely, which probably didn't help ratings.

(03-16-2014 05:02 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  2. Every good thing that you mentioned happened after the thread was started.

So the events that led up to the Big East getting four NCAA bids, the same number as The American received (and one of those bids have played their last game in The American) were quite clearly not "among the worst case scenarios" ... because in the real "worst case scenarios", the outcome would have been worse.

Instead, it was a premature declaration of the sky falling, when the sky did not, in fact, fall.

(03-16-2014 06:57 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(03-16-2014 05:02 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  2. Every good thing that you mentioned happened after the thread was started.

So the events that led up to the Big East getting four NCAA bids, the same number as The American received (and one of those bids have played their last game in The American) were quite clearly not "among the worst case scenarios" ... because in the real "worst case scenarios", the outcome would have been worse.

Instead, it was a premature declaration of the sky falling, when the sky did not, in fact, fall.

From a TV perspective, it just about was. It wasn't premature. It was factually accurate, and it remains factually accurate.

Beyond all of that, the four teams that got in were: Villanova, Creighton, Xavier, and Prov.

'Nova and Creighton were NCAA-bound from the regular season, and there's a very, very good chance that so were at least one of Xavier and Prov., if not both. Pointing to the number of teams in the NCAA tourney as proof that the BIG EAST tourney was a success is at best illogical.

The cons of losing a high NCAAT seed and taking a probable* ratings hit in the name of sending four teams to a tourney when they all probably would have gone anyway is anything but just about the worst case scenario for the conference. Had two top teams** played, ratings would have been strong and the tourney as a whole would have had more prestige. Had two awful teams played, somewhere between 5-6 teams would have made the tourney. Instead, basically every nationally-know team flamed out and *maybe* one extra team made the dance. That's just about the worst case scenario for the BIG EAST. In fact, I would venture to say that the only significant and undeniable good thing to break the BIG EAST's way in this tourney is the fact that McBuckets made it to the final, which, for the second time, happened after I made my initial post.***

*I say "probable" because I haven't seen the actual numbers
**In terms of following/national appeal
***And contrary to what you seem to believe, my post didn't end with "and there's absolutely no silver lining that can possibly happen as a result of future events." In fact, I even acknowledged that Creighton hadn't played yet in my initial post, thus explicitly excluding them from the scope of my statement.

(03-16-2014 04:41 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 06:46 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 01:30 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(03-13-2014 09:37 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  yes sure is the worse case scenario when the 2nd 3rd and 4th seeds are all still alive...
maybe next year the 5th and 7th seeds can play in the championship game since they may have "historic" programs...

A Duke v. Wake ACCCG in football would be horrible for the Atlantic Coast Conference, even if those teams did field the best teams in the conference. Don't let your absolute blindness get in the way of the fact that it's better for the conference when teams with fan support/the hope of fan support win. In other words, don't bite the hand that feeds you. However, it's almost poetic/cliché that a Provence fan doesn't understand that point...

at least providence beat BC this year.
i understand that

Do you mean like this?
http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400502790

And while we're on the topic of common opponents, how did the 'Nova games go for you? We beat them by 16.

why so angry? im sure having a team like BC handing syracuse its first loss, must have really stung...

Providence vs Creighton in the championship. 2 teams who have no history playing each other and sorry but as a neutral and long time Big East fan I couldnt get excited about it at all. Providence, RI, and Omaha, NE are worlds apart and here they are in the same conference just because they are both catholic. Sorry but I cant wrap my head around it.