Jerry's got a very good point IMO.

Jerry West no fan of NBA’s highly-touted draft class

Quote:If Jerry West still ran an NBA franchise, he wouldn’t be tanking for this year’s draft class. In fact, the Hall of Famer and former NBA executive said he was unimpressed by this group of freshmen, calling it “poor.”

Apparently, Jabari Parker, Joel Embiid, Aaron Gordon and Andrew Wiggins don’t do it for West.

“And everyone is talking about a great draft class this year, I think it’s just the opposite,” West said in an interview on ESPN Radio with Scott Van Pelt and Ryen Rusillo. ”I think it’s a poor one myself.”

West is down on the NBA as a whole, and he thinks organizations depending on these young players is a major problem.

The class is still going to be pretty good in the NBA though. A lot of these guys have the size/strength to be top tier players, they just need to be a bit more seasoned.

This is really an ESPN issue IMO. ESPN hyped them up to be this super amazing, best ever class to fill air time and create hype for the college season.

These kids won't be as good as people think. There's no emphasis on teamwork for them. It's all about themselves, and they come into the NBA with poor fundamentals. Jerry's right.

(03-12-2014 03:24 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  These kids won't be as good as people think. There's no emphasis on teamwork for them. It's all about themselves, and they come into the NBA with poor fundamentals. Jerry's right.

Kzryzeski laid down the law with Parker and he's been awesome since January. I think either he or Smart will make good contributions right out of the gate to whatever team they're on.

As far as the rest, Randle, Wiggins, Embiid...they still need some work. In the right enviornment they'll be fine next year though. They're going to have to grow up quick because they'll no longer be able to rely solely on physical talent alone anymore.

(03-12-2014 03:04 PM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  The class is still going to be pretty good in the NBA though. A lot of these guys have the size/strength to be top tier players, they just need to be a bit more seasoned.

Yeah, they'll do just fine in the NBA. In a perfect world, they'd get to the NBA at age 21-22 after playing college ball for 3 years, but any of these guys could be a big star in the NBA. As with anyone else, getting on a team that's right for them and staying relatively injury-free are the biggest factors.

(03-12-2014 03:29 PM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  

(03-12-2014 03:24 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  These kids won't be as good as people think. There's no emphasis on teamwork for them. It's all about themselves, and they come into the NBA with poor fundamentals. Jerry's right.

Kzryzeski laid down the law with Parker and he's been awesome since January. I think either he or Smart will make good contributions right out of the gate to whatever team they're on.

As far as the rest, Randle, Wiggins, Embiid...they still need some work. In the right enviornment they'll be fine next year though. They're going to have to grow up quick because they'll no longer be able to rely solely on physical talent alone anymore.

Unless Smart has a better reign on his temper than he's shown during games when he's off his game, he's going to be in for a rude awakening. When Smart gets shut down, he gets upset. When he gets upset, his team has trouble.

I haven't watched Parker, since I don't watch ACC games. So I can't say either way about him. But I seriously doubt he's as good as you talk about, or he'd be in the discussion as the #1 pick. NBA execs and draft pundits would notice, if his game was so superior. According to all reports, it's still Embiid and Wiggins for the first 2 picks. So I kind of doubt Parker is as great as you think.

Parker's draft position could change, depending on the status of Embiid's back. But it won't change because of Parker's play, unless he has one hell of a tourney run. Embiid and Wiggins are still the class of this freshman class. But even they need work, and both should stay in school for another year or 2 of seasoning. They aren't NBA ready IMO, which is what Jerry has been saying all along. Charles Barkley has said the same thing on TV, as have many other former NBA players and execs.

(03-12-2014 04:01 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(03-12-2014 03:29 PM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  

(03-12-2014 03:24 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  These kids won't be as good as people think. There's no emphasis on teamwork for them. It's all about themselves, and they come into the NBA with poor fundamentals. Jerry's right.

Kzryzeski laid down the law with Parker and he's been awesome since January. I think either he or Smart will make good contributions right out of the gate to whatever team they're on.

As far as the rest, Randle, Wiggins, Embiid...they still need some work. In the right enviornment they'll be fine next year though. They're going to have to grow up quick because they'll no longer be able to rely solely on physical talent alone anymore.

Unless Smart has a better reign on his temper than he's shown during games when he's off his game, he's going to be in for a rude awakening. When Smart gets shut down, he gets upset. When he gets upset, his team has trouble.

I haven't watched Parker, since I don't watch ACC games. So I can't say either way about him. But I seriously doubt he's as good as you talk about, or he'd be in the discussion as the #1 pick. NBA execs and draft pundits would notice, if his game was so superior. According to all reports, it's still Embiid and Wiggins for the first 2 picks. So I kind of doubt Parker is as great as you think.

Parker's draft position could change, depending on the status of Embiid's back. But it won't change because of Parker's play, unless he has one hell of a tourney run. Embiid and Wiggins are still the class of this freshman class. But even they need work, and both should stay in school for another year or 2 of seasoning. They aren't NBA ready IMO, which is what Jerry has been saying all along. Charles Barkley has said the same thing on TV, as have many other former NBA players and execs.

Well, Embiid is 7 feet 250 with good co-ordination...you can't teach that and unless teams are afraid of his back issues then there is no reason that he won't be the number one overall pick.

Not sure what NBA mocks you're looking at but this one has Parker ahead of Wiggins.

http://www.nbadraft.net/2014mock_draft

So...there are people out there who get paid to do this stuff that really like Parker. You admit yourself that you don't watch the ACC, which means that you isolate yourself from watching a conference that will likely have 4 Top 15 picks this year, as they do most seasons. Marcus Smart with all his issues is still projected Top 8 (probably will be higher when the tourny is over) pick and it seems pretty clear his teammates like him a lot and have rallied around his return.

All this disdain for this draft class (which should still be good, but not the best ever like ESPN wants you to believe) becaues WVUs most prolific basketball player made a comment and you're the biggest WVU homer on these boards?

I don't even like Duke or Kansas, but it's hard to deny these guys are quite talented. Everyone could use more seasoning coming out of college to the NBA, but Parker, Wiggins, Randle, Embiid would all be better suited in the NBA next year.

Danny Ainge has said on Boston radio that people have over rated this draft class as well.

(03-12-2014 04:27 PM)Minutemen429 Wrote:  Danny Ainge has said on Boston radio that people have over rated this draft class as well.

Danny Ainge...the guy who gutted his playoff caliber team so that he could get a high pick in this year's draft?

I think he's just hedging his bets so that he doesn't look as bad if the guy the Celtics draft doesn't pan out.

I'm not inclined to second guess Jerry West on anything when it comes to basketball. Are Parker, Wiggins, Randle and Embiid good players? Sure. Are they the best in this year's draft class? Smart money says they are. But are they going to come in and have an impact on the NBA right away? I have to take West's word for this.

Just as important, even if the top guys are great players, this draft doesn't look very deep. So many underclassmen have come out in the past few years, these kids haven't been tested in college against very many future pros. They are playing against mostly other freshmen and sophomores.

What I would be afraid of if I were the NBA isn't that this year's class might not live up to the hype. It's that it might still be the best class we'll see for a while. And they will have their own draft age policy to blame for that.

The NBA should do away with the one and done rule. Go either straight out of HS or adopt the NFL and MLB rules. Three years removed from high school. The NBA is wasting a ton of money on players who still have to develop and are not NBA ready for at least a couple of years. A large portion of draft picks end up in Europe somewhere or the D-League after they wash out of the NBA and have no education to fall back on.

It is a travesty that the NBA and college game have suffered because of the draft practices of the NBA.

I think that if Embiid's back issues don't become chronic, he could be a really good player.

(03-13-2014 06:29 AM)geauxcajuns Wrote:  The NBA should do away with the one and done rule. Go either straight out of HS or adopt the NFL and MLB rules. Three years removed from high school. The NBA is wasting a ton of money on players who still have to develop and are not NBA ready for at least a couple of years. A large portion of draft picks end up in Europe somewhere or the D-League after they wash out of the NBA and have no education to fall back on.

It is a travesty that the NBA and college game have suffered because of the draft practices of the NBA.

The NBA game has not suffered because of this. The NBA right now is as deep as it was in the mid 80s....if it's watered down a bit it's because they've added a few teams since then.

College only basketball fans live in fantasy land when they claim the NBA is suffereing. The NBA just had it's best playoff ratings since Jordan retired. There are ten bonafide superstars in the league right now. They're doing just fine.

(03-12-2014 03:04 PM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:  The class is still going to be pretty good in the NBA though. A lot of these guys have the size/strength to be top tier players, they just need to be a bit more seasoned.

If you are talking about down the line, then maybe. But that doesn't really help the teams that draft them and get a 2 or 3 year contract with them before they are free agents (depending on if the team picks up their options)

(03-13-2014 06:29 AM)geauxcajuns Wrote:  The NBA should do away with the one and done rule. Go either straight out of HS or adopt the NFL and MLB rules. Three years removed from high school. The NBA is wasting a ton of money on players who still have to develop and are not NBA ready for at least a couple of years.

Which is why they will not adopt MLB rules and they likely will not go back to allowing HS's to be eligible for the draft. When you look at the league stats over the years, you can see night and day what happened when HS players were allowed in the draft:


I tried to include stats that show game play, such as PPG, Offensive Rating (pts per 100 possessions), effective FG shooting (balances 2 and 3pt shots to account for more threes being taken now), and Pace Stats. All of these dipped when the draft started having more and younger underclassmen in the draft, and plummeted when HS came in. And most are on the rise since they were not allowed in.

The problems with HS players in the draft are many. A few to ponder:

• 1) you are drafting them based on watching them play HS competition, where they are often bigger than their counterparts
  
  2) Most of them are not ready to play, so you are taking up roster spots with guys who don't produce
  
  3) HS players fail at a much more significant rate, due to bad scouting and lack of proper development in an environment not suited for it
  
  4) Because of number 3, veteran players who normally would have naturally washed out of the league due to age and attrician, are now needed to fill roster voids left by draft classes that did not survive. If you will notice above, the average age in the league actually went up, not down, when HS'ers were part of the draft. This is why you still see so many aging vets (Nazr Muhammad, Grant Hill, Juwan Howard, Dikembe Mutombo, etc) who played well after they normally would not make a roster, or guys who were not very good, but still hung around, because of so many players drafted from 1996- 2005 who were not NBA material leaving a void.
  
  5) The combination of young players who cannot contribute COMBINED with older/lesser players who normally would not be in the league, drastically harmed the game play of the league, and thus attendance and ratings, which are not on the graph above, but also dipped and recovered in reverse of the draft ages.
  
  6) Of course this is why the NBAPA actually did not like the rule at first. They knew what the deal was, and that vets were able to stay around longer, because of the higher failure rate of HS players and 1 year players under the old system. Of course now that the interest has returned, they will not fight it when it goes to two years shortly.

With what we have seen since the 1 year rule went into affect, essentially pushing the top players from being HS and 1 year players, to 1 year and 2 year players, there is simply no way they will go back.

IMO the NBA's draft eligibility is the way it is now because they are making a cynical calculation.

The NBA would love to have a minimum age of 21 or 3-4 years in college. They don't want players straight out of high school, they'd love to go back to the days of guys like Jordan and Bird developing in college before reaching the NBA. But, I'm guessing, the NBA's lawyers have told them that if players sued to overturn a rule requiring age 21 or 3-4 years in college, the players would win.

So the NBA thinks 3-4 years waiting time wouldn't stand up in court. One year of waiting time might not stand up to a lawsuit, either, but any kid who files a lawsuit after finishing HS would be in court longer than one year, so waiting one year instead of filing a lawsuit is the fastest path to the NBA.

(03-13-2014 12:11 PM)Wedge Wrote:  IMO the NBA's draft eligibility is the way it is now because they are making a cynical calculation.

The NBA would love to have a minimum age of 21 or 3-4 years in college. They don't want players straight out of high school, they'd love to go back to the days of guys like Jordan and Bird developing in college before reaching the NBA. But, I'm guessing, the NBA's lawyers have told them that if players sued to overturn a rule requiring age 21 or 3-4 years in college, the players would win.

So the NBA thinks 3-4 years waiting time wouldn't stand up in court. One year of waiting time might not stand up to a lawsuit, either, but any kid who files a lawsuit after finishing HS would be in court longer than one year, so waiting one year instead of filing a lawsuit is the fastest path to the NBA.

They don't even need to go to college either. A few guys have gone overseas to play pro ball for a year instead.

(03-13-2014 12:11 PM)Wedge Wrote:  I'm guessing, the NBA's lawyers have told them that if players sued to overturn a rule requiring age 21 or 3-4 years in college, the players would win.

Legally, they have nothing to be concerned with. Because

1) It was collectively bargained with the players union
2) corporations have a right to choose employment requirements

The issue with moving it up too fast, or too far, was that for one, you would kill draft classes for a couple of years while making the conversion, if it was all done at once. Plus you want to create an environment where the age limit seems natural anyway. College basketball is not what it was, but it is getting more stocked with talent than it used to be from players returning already. Now it is getting to where more top prospects are staying two years, then it was back a few years ago. Plus you now have rookies who are having a lesser impact because there are still a lot of first year players in the draft, AND the NBA talent pool has gotten deeper because of the draft rules. which will further slow down the one and done, making the next transition even easier.

The NBA was actually going to address it in the last collective bargaining agreement, but by the time they finally got it worked out so that they could have a season, they did not want to delay the CBA by spending extra time talking about non-essential matters such as this, and they tabled the discussion for a later date.