I can remember the '85 Tech team that finished the season ranked #5 in the major polls but got stuck with a 4 seed in the NCAA tourney. We played Pittsburg there in the opening round and their local papers had articles about how they were going to show us what Big East BB was all about - we won by 25 or so. In the next round we played the #3 seed Ohio St and beat them by 10. Of course we lost to #1 or #2 seeded Oklahoma and Tisdale in OT on a last second shot that rolled around the rim forever in the sweet 16. We had some really good team in the 80's and early 90's. ESPN never gives us little guys any credit and I always pull for all of them in the NCAA's!

(03-10-2014 08:22 PM)winston70 Wrote:  I can remember the '85 Tech team that finished the season ranked #5 in the major polls but got stuck with a 4 seed in the NCAA tourney. We played Pittsburg there in the opening round and their local papers had articles about how they were going to show us what Big East BB was all about - we won by 25 or so. In the next round we played the #3 seed Ohio St and beat them by 10. Of course we lost to #1 or #2 seeded Oklahoma and Tisdale in OT on a last second shot that rolled around the rim forever in the sweet 16. We had some really good team in the 80's and early 90's. ESPN never gives us little guys any credit and I always pull for all of them in the NCAA's!

Was that during the Malone years?

(03-10-2014 08:26 PM)Niner National Wrote:  

(03-10-2014 08:22 PM)winston70 Wrote:  I can remember the '85 Tech team that finished the season ranked #5 in the major polls but got stuck with a 4 seed in the NCAA tourney. We played Pittsburg there in the opening round and their local papers had articles about how they were going to show us what Big East BB was all about - we won by 25 or so. In the next round we played the #3 seed Ohio St and beat them by 10. Of course we lost to #1 or #2 seeded Oklahoma and Tisdale in OT on a last second shot that rolled around the rim forever in the sweet 16. We had some really good team in the 80's and early 90's. ESPN never gives us little guys any credit and I always pull for all of them in the NCAA's!

Was that during the Malone years?

Yes and we had a complete team that year. Willie Simmons was 6-11 and played center so Malone played the 4 in college. We had a very good PG that Speedy is trying to catch on some records that still stand. We also had a couple of really solid 3's. If we were ever going to win it all that was the year. We actually played OU earlier in the season there and lost but the game was delayed for over 30 minutes because Malone broke the basketball goal and it had to replaced.

I disagree with the article that USM doesn't have bad losses. I think their loss to UAB is a bad loss, especially the margin. Same for the margin of loss to Louisville. RPI doesn't look at Margin, but other factors the committee looks at does.

(03-10-2014 06:50 PM)Niner National Wrote:  

(03-10-2014 06:37 PM)nastybunch Wrote:  Southern Miss will be in if they are in the finals. I don't pay attention to talking heads. If we lose before the finals, we'll be a number 1 or 2 seed in the NIT if we get by UTEP and then lose, and will be a three or four seed if we do lose to UTEP.

You don't have to listen to talking heads. You just have to look at past precedent.

OOC matters and your OOC schedule was a joke. You are in exactly the same position you were last year and you didn't get a bid then, so I don't know why you are so confident this year will be different.

I really hope USM gets a bid if they don't win the tournament because I want CUSA to get more than 1 team in, I just don't see it happening when the most promising chance we have for an at large has their best OOC win against North Dakota State. USM challenged themselves one time in all of OOC play and weren't even competitive.

More competitive than #19 Connecticut. Those kinds of games happen from time to time.

The #37 RPI team isn't a signature win simply because their name isn't amongst the you-know-who's?

Oh, but remember, the talking heads say that margin if losses doesn't matter....right!!!

(03-10-2014 07:16 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  

(03-10-2014 07:12 PM)Noodles Wrote:  Explain to me without sounding like an ESPN douchebag why our road win at NDSU isn't considered a big win? #38 RPI, best shooting team in the country, yet it doesn't count because their name isn't Iowa or Memphis?

It's a good win but not necessarily a big win. Simply put, NDSU is not marquee name in college basketball. And if NDSU doesn't win the autobid to the Dance, that win over them would mean nothing for USM in the bigger scheme of things.

A road win against RPI #37 is a big win for anybody. But only the you-know-who teams will get credit for it. That's bullsh!t.

(03-10-2014 08:09 PM)Noodles Wrote:  

(03-10-2014 07:56 PM)Niner National Wrote:  

(03-10-2014 07:28 PM)Noodles Wrote:  

(03-10-2014 07:23 PM)Niner National Wrote:  

(03-10-2014 07:18 PM)Noodles Wrote:  Yeah. They're leading Denver, RPI 140, 48-15 right now.

ESPN has ruined college sports.

This started a long time before ESPN.

Back in 77, when Charlotte went to the Final Four, we almost didn't get into the tournament. It took Adolph Rupp (who we played in the NIT final the year before after being left out of the tournament) telling the selection committee that they needed to take us before we were given any serious consideration.

We arguably had the best starting 5 in the nation that year, but almost didn't get in because we were an unknown despite being a damn good team the year before.

When there are limited spots, people generally err on the side of caution and take the bigger name program because they are generally more battle tested by virtue of playing in a conference with more talent.

And the more talent remark is highly debatable, since they get way more home-cooking from the home game officials since they don't go on the road and play Robert Morris. Send UNC to UAB and look at the scoreboard.

I mean in conference play. If you're Tennessee, you've played UK, Florida, and several other bubble teams.

If you're USM, you've played nobody in conference play that is anything better than a bubble team.

Not saying it is right, but it is hard to deny that someone in a power conference has faced better competition more consistently for the last 2/3 of the season.

Better competition, according to ESPN.
Sorry, I'm not buying into the hype. We are better than Oklahoma State, Tennessee, Missouri, Arkansas, Providence, Nebraska, Georgia.
Maybe we'll get the chance to prove it.

I would agree with all of those except Oklahoma State.

How's the C-USA tournament structured? Is it possible that USM and La Tech could face off in the finals? If so, I could easily imagine both in the NCAA Tournament.

(03-10-2014 09:42 PM)CajunFanatico Wrote:  How's the C-USA tournament structured? Is it possible that USM and La Tech could face off in the finals? If so, I could easily imagine both in the NCAA Tournament.

No. They'd face each other in the semis if they both get there.

(03-10-2014 09:42 PM)CajunFanatico Wrote:  How's the C-USA tournament structured? Is it possible that USM and La Tech could face off in the finals? If so, I could easily imagine both in the NCAA Tournament.

Tech is the 1 seed and USM is the 4 seed so if we both win our first game we play in the semis.

(03-10-2014 09:44 PM)Niner National Wrote:  

(03-10-2014 09:42 PM)CajunFanatico Wrote:  How's the C-USA tournament structured? Is it possible that USM and La Tech could face off in the finals? If so, I could easily imagine both in the NCAA Tournament.

No. They'd face each other in the semis if they both get there.

Well then, not so much.

(03-10-2014 09:30 PM)Funslinger Wrote:  

(03-10-2014 07:16 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  

(03-10-2014 07:12 PM)Noodles Wrote:  Explain to me without sounding like an ESPN douchebag why our road win at NDSU isn't considered a big win? #38 RPI, best shooting team in the country, yet it doesn't count because their name isn't Iowa or Memphis?

It's a good win but not necessarily a big win. Simply put, NDSU is not marquee name in college basketball. And if NDSU doesn't win the autobid to the Dance, that win over them would mean nothing for USM in the bigger scheme of things.

A road win against RPI #37 is a big win for anybody. But only the you-know-who teams will get credit for it. That's bullsh!t.

There's a team who is .500 in their conference, whose best OOC win was at home against North Dakota St. (second best: Delaware) that has been called by ESPN either a "solid" or "great" win, who was "locked up" by ESPN after getting swept by one of the two worst teams in their conference, who is projected to face a double-digit seed, and who, after seeing them on TV many times, I've come to the conclusion that they're really not good this year and whichever double-digit seed draws them in the second round ought to be licking their chops.

Name that team.

(03-10-2014 08:22 PM)winston70 Wrote:  I can remember the '85 Tech team that finished the season ranked #5 in the major polls but got stuck with a 4 seed in the NCAA tourney. We played Pittsburg there in the opening round and their local papers had articles about how they were going to show us what Big East BB was all about - we won by 25 or so. In the next round we played the #3 seed Ohio St and beat them by 10. Of course we lost to #1 or #2 seeded Oklahoma and Tisdale in OT on a last second shot that rolled around the rim forever in the sweet 16. We had some really good team in the 80's and early 90's. ESPN never gives us little guys any credit and I always pull for all of them in the NCAA's!

Our championship team, one of the greatest and most celebrated teams in college basketball history, was 23-1 going into the Tourney and ranked either 2nd or 3rd in the country and was rewarded by having to play an opening round game against Oklahoma City. Imagine Wichita St. having to play in Dayton next Tuesday.

(03-10-2014 09:30 PM)Funslinger Wrote:  

(03-10-2014 07:16 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  

(03-10-2014 07:12 PM)Noodles Wrote:  Explain to me without sounding like an ESPN douchebag why our road win at NDSU isn't considered a big win? #38 RPI, best shooting team in the country, yet it doesn't count because their name isn't Iowa or Memphis?

It's a good win but not necessarily a big win. Simply put, NDSU is not marquee name in college basketball. And if NDSU doesn't win the autobid to the Dance, that win over them would mean nothing for USM in the bigger scheme of things.

A road win against RPI #37 is a big win for anybody.

Not in this case. And here's why, NDSU best win came on the road to Notre Dame by 4. Notre Dame currently has an RPI of 124. Here's the sad thing, that win will look better to the committee than USM win over NDSU at their place. Which is why the selection committee isn't going to look at USM win over NDSU and go, "wow, that was an impressive win!"

Now if NDSU had beaten Ohio St and St. Mary's, maybe the committee takes notice of NDSU a little more. Yes it sucks but it's just the way it is.

(03-10-2014 10:03 PM)STexMiner Wrote:  

(03-10-2014 09:30 PM)Funslinger Wrote:  

(03-10-2014 07:16 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  

(03-10-2014 07:12 PM)Noodles Wrote:  Explain to me without sounding like an ESPN douchebag why our road win at NDSU isn't considered a big win? #38 RPI, best shooting team in the country, yet it doesn't count because their name isn't Iowa or Memphis?

It's a good win but not necessarily a big win. Simply put, NDSU is not marquee name in college basketball. And if NDSU doesn't win the autobid to the Dance, that win over them would mean nothing for USM in the bigger scheme of things.

A road win against RPI #37 is a big win for anybody. But only the you-know-who teams will get credit for it. That's bullsh!t.

There's a team who is .500 in their conference, whose best OOC win was at home against North Dakota St. (second best: Delaware) that has been called by ESPN either a "solid" or "great" win, who was "locked up" by ESPN after getting swept by one of the two worst teams in their conference, who is projected to face a double-digit seed, and who, after seeing them on TV many times, I've come to the conclusion that they're really not good this year and whichever double-digit seed draws them in the second round ought to be licking their chops.

Name that team.

Ohio State is the closest I could find to fitting your description, but their numbers are a bit off, so I'm not 100% sure if that is right.

While their OOC resume isn't all that impressive, they do have wins over Michigan State, Iowa, Nebraska, Minnesota, and Wisconsin.

That's the difference with playing in the B10 vs CUSA. If you don't do anything in OOC, you still have opportunities for "good" wins. Since USM can't play themselves, they didn't really have any opportunities for good RPI wins in conference play. The next best RPI in the conference is in the 60's.

For us, in many seasons, OOC is the proving ground and avoiding bad losses in conference play is the proving ground that any good OOC wins were not flukes.

It's not a level playing field, but it is a lot more fair and forgiving than college football.

(03-10-2014 10:19 PM)Niner National Wrote:  

(03-10-2014 10:03 PM)STexMiner Wrote:  

(03-10-2014 09:30 PM)Funslinger Wrote:  

(03-10-2014 07:16 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  

(03-10-2014 07:12 PM)Noodles Wrote:  Explain to me without sounding like an ESPN douchebag why our road win at NDSU isn't considered a big win? #38 RPI, best shooting team in the country, yet it doesn't count because their name isn't Iowa or Memphis?

It's a good win but not necessarily a big win. Simply put, NDSU is not marquee name in college basketball. And if NDSU doesn't win the autobid to the Dance, that win over them would mean nothing for USM in the bigger scheme of things.

A road win against RPI #37 is a big win for anybody. But only the you-know-who teams will get credit for it. That's bullsh!t.

There's a team who is .500 in their conference, whose best OOC win was at home against North Dakota St. (second best: Delaware) that has been called by ESPN either a "solid" or "great" win, who was "locked up" by ESPN after getting swept by one of the two worst teams in their conference, who is projected to face a double-digit seed, and who, after seeing them on TV many times, I've come to the conclusion that they're really not good this year and whichever double-digit seed draws them in the second round ought to be licking their chops.

Name that team.

Ohio State is the closest I could find to fitting your description, but their numbers are a bit off, so I'm not 100% sure if that is right.

While their OOC resume isn't all that impressive, they do have wins over Michigan State, Iowa, Nebraska, Minnesota, and Wisconsin.

That's the difference with playing in the B10 vs CUSA. If you don't do anything in OOC, you still have opportunities for "good" wins. Since USM can't play themselves, they didn't really have any opportunities for good RPI wins in conference play. The next best RPI in the conference is in the 60's.

For us, in many seasons, OOC is the proving ground and avoiding bad losses in conference play is the proving ground that any good OOC wins were not flukes.

It's not a level playing field, but it is a lot more fair and forgiving than college football.

Ding ding ding. Full disclosure. I really, really dislike Ohio St. And pardon me for not getting too excited about wins over Nebraska and Minnesota.

There's the problem. There's very little incentive if you can get those RPI wins in conference.

USM is 26-5 and our RPI is in the mid-to-low 30s. We should be an at-large because we have some good wins over very good teams:

@ DePaul (Marquee name)
@ 24-6 North Dakota State RPI 37
24-7 Georgia State RPI 76
25-6 La Tech RPI 71
22-9 UTEP RPI 102

...and don't tell me " the DePaul win doesn't mean anything because they suck"......well, if you claim the selection committee will put more weight on a NDSU win over 15-16 Notre Dame than a NDSU win over 21-9 Western Michigan, 25-9 Delaware, 23-10 Towson or 24-9 IPFW just because Notre Dame is a "marquee" name.....then our win AT DePaul (which is a "marquee" name when it comes to college basketball) should be put into consideration too.

(03-10-2014 10:35 PM)STexMiner Wrote:  Ding ding ding. Full disclosure. I really, really dislike Ohio St. And pardon me for not getting too excited about wins over Nebraska and Minnesota.

There's the problem. There's very little incentive if you can get those RPI wins in conference.

A few years ago the MVC had it all figured out. That conference once sent five teams to the Dance and the team with the best RPI in the MVC that year (Mizzou St) didn't even make the Dance.

The problem with CUSA is that we have teams that are more football focus than basketball. And yes, football drives the bus so I get it. But when your school already has a limited budget and most of that budget goes to football, then basketball is going to get left behind.

In essence, schools like WKU, Marshall, ODU, UAB, La Tech, USM, MTSU, Charlotte & UTEP are going to have to start representing in their OOC games and building strong RPIs heading into conference play. UAB has an excellent chance to do this playing in the Battle for Atlantis in November.

(03-10-2014 11:01 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  

(03-10-2014 10:35 PM)STexMiner Wrote:  Ding ding ding. Full disclosure. I really, really dislike Ohio St. And pardon me for not getting too excited about wins over Nebraska and Minnesota.

There's the problem. There's very little incentive if you can get those RPI wins in conference.

A few years ago the MVC had it all figured out. That conference once sent five teams to the Dance and the team with the best RPI in the MVC that year (Mizzou St) didn't even make the Dance.

The problem with CUSA is that we have teams that are more football focus than basketball. And yes, football drives the bus so I get it. But when your school already has a limited budget and most of that budget goes to football, then basketball is going to get left behind.

In essence, schools like WKU, Marshall, ODU, UAB, La Tech, USM, MTSU, Charlotte & UTEP are going to have to start representing in their OOC games and building strong RPIs heading into conference play. UAB has an excellent chance to do this playing in the Battle for Atlantis in November.

I really wish UTEP steps it up next year. If we have a much quieter summer than last year, we're going to be a pretty good team next year. Washburn, Cooper, and Lang will all be seniors and Hunter and Willms will have another summer to grow. Willms will also have a chance to get healthy, as he's been playing with a torn labrum all year. We should be all right.

We also need to step it up on the scheduling end. I'll state the obvious. No matter what's swirling around the team at the time, we can be losing to the likes of New Orleans. More importantly, we can't spend the month of December playing a bunch of sub-500 teams. Part of it is luck. We'd be doing OK if we played the teams on our schedule last year. Colorado St., Denver, Northwestern St., and Western Illinois were all 20+ win teams last year, but all took significant steps back this year. I know we'll have our home and home with NMSU and we'll have Arizona at the Don. Who knows what they'll look like next year, but they'll still be Arizona. I think we''l also be at Colorado St and have Washington St. at home. What I'd like to see going forward is getting some home and homes with teams like Cal-Irvine, Long Beach, Weber St. Try to game the RPI a little bit.