(03-13-2014 02:29 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(03-13-2014 01:40 PM)odusteeler Wrote:  They have 5.5 scholarships. The limit is 9.9. That's barely half the allotment. But you say they are investing...okay. If you can demonstrate that, I'll kiss your boots!

They were below 5 scholarships a year ago.

But save your saliva.

Quote:UNI has always had strong wrestling.

They hit some very down years. Not a criticism of the entire program, just a fact that they had a bad stretch.

Quote: GMU & AU can't privide that.

AU had a top 5 finish a couple of years back. It's nutty to say they can't provide that.

Right now UMd is taking the local talent, for obvious reasons. But Maryland wrestling is growing, and NoVA wrestling is being kindled.

Quote:The closest thing ODU has to a natural rival is VT. We used to have pretty intense matches with Rider, Binghamton, & Hofstra when we were CAA. But guess what? They didn't draw as well as the new conference foes because of name recognition & individual matchups. The new rivalries will develop as the teams grow their competitive histories.

Yeah, I remember Marshall fans making similar comments.

Quote:You can postulate & theorize all you want. Your arguments have no factual basis.

I'm curious as to what ODU attendance was/is.

Provide me a link to the scholarship data! They've been at 5.5 for decades.

AU had a top 5 finish when Cody was the coach. He's now the head coach at Oklahoma. They're a nice program, but won't draw unless there are significant individual matchups.

I'll find te NWCA link for attendance figures.

Maryland has 5 qualifiers this season. Guess how many are from Maryland?....One.

Supporting your facts with generalizations is comical. You obviously don't have a clue about wrestling, so I'll save us both some time and end this. The alignment models that work for football & basketball - where casual fans come out in high percentages - don't always work best for the non-revenue sports - where casual fans are harder to find. Try to broaden your perspective a little.

Here you go my friend:

http://news.theopenmat.com/2014/03/iowa-...r-2013-14/

(03-13-2014 04:14 PM)odusteeler Wrote:  Here you go my friend:

http://news.theopenmat.com/2014/03/iowa-...r-2013-14/

Thanks. That's one year's worth. And ODU maxed against VPI.
Iowa St- 932
VPI- 1489
EMU- 703
UVA- 720
NIU- 629* *"thanks to all the Old Dominion teams who came tonight"
CMU- 506
UNI- 757

Hardly indicative that being in the MAC has really sparked their attendance. Their best numbers came against local teams (like I said) and against traditional power ISU. Their lowest attendance figures were all against MAC teams. UNI had a good turnout, but they had gained national attention by that point. You claim I know nothing, when an honest analysis of the situation demonstrates exactly what I said, although the limited interest in UVa (very strong team this year) was surprising.

As for the GMU scholarship count, it's what Russell told me last summer when I specifically asked.

As for not knowing anything about wrestling, it's true I know little about ODU wrestling. Maybe that's your real gripe.

(03-14-2014 08:30 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(03-13-2014 04:14 PM)odusteeler Wrote:  Here you go my friend:

http://news.theopenmat.com/2014/03/iowa-...r-2013-14/

Thanks. That's one year's worth. And ODU maxed against VPI.
Iowa St- 932
VPI- 1489
EMU- 703
UVA- 720
NIU- 629* *"thanks to all the Old Dominion teams who came tonight"
CMU- 506
UNI- 757

Hardly indicative that being in the MAC has really sparked their attendance. Their best numbers came against local teams (like I said) and against traditional power ISU. Their lowest attendance figures were all against MAC teams. UNI had a good turnout, but they had gained national attention by that point. You claim I know nothing, when an honest analysis of the situation demonstrates exactly what I said, although the limited interest in UVa (very strong team this year) was surprising.

As for the GMU scholarship count, it's what Russell told me last summer when I specifically asked.

As for not knowing anything about wrestling, it's true I know little about ODU wrestling. Maybe that's your real gripe.

If you dug a little deeper, you could explain the turnouts. Opening weekend of the season had Iowa St. & VT in late November. There was no high school wrestling to conflict with it. Two weeks later on Dec. 6 (Friday night), they wrestle EMU opening weekend of the high school season when everyone's away at tournaments. UVA & CMU were both on Sunday afternoons (Jan. 19 & Feb. 2). Guess what was happening those weekends? NFL Championship games. So some folks stayed home.

Is it poor scheduling? Perhaps. But they get scraps for time when sharing the arena with basketball. Nevertheless, there are two takeaways from the attendance figures. One - ODU's attendance correlates to the ranking of the opponent, not the location of the school (VT, Iowa St., UVA, & UNI drew the best). Two - ODU is 18th in the nation in overall attendance (90 heads behind Michigan), ahead of every MAC school except UNI. Why would the conference leadership want to get rid of us?

Where did you speak with Joe Russell about scholarships? If you're so concerned with the health of Mason's program, why don't you ask him why he's in the EWL instead of the EIWA, where AU, Navy, Penn, Drexel, Lehigh & Rutgers are? Those schools are much closer than Cleveland St. or Edinboro.

(03-14-2014 10:03 AM)odusteeler Wrote:  Is it poor scheduling? Perhaps. But they get scraps for time when sharing the arena with basketball. Nevertheless, there are two takeaways from the attendance figures. One - ODU's attendance correlates to the ranking of the opponent, not the location of the school (VT, Iowa St., UVA, & UNI drew the best). Two - ODU is 18th in the nation in overall attendance (90 heads behind Michigan), ahead of every MAC school except UNI. Why would the conference leadership want to get rid of us?

Simple: all you talk about is the benefits to ODU, and not to the conference. Of course you want ODU in the MAC, but how has the MAC benefitted.

To be fair I tried to look up attendance at other MAC schools, to see how interest in ODU compared w/ MAC teams...but they didn't list their dual match attendance. That would tell as much or more about ODU's benefit to the conference, but I have no info on that.

Quote:Where did you speak with Joe Russell about scholarships?

In the GMU wrestling room.

Quote: If you're so concerned with the health of Mason's program,

I'm concerned about the MAC and collegiate wrestling. You're taking this a bit personally. If you really want to be productive, do something about those ODU technique videos. They're not very good.

(03-14-2014 10:25 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 10:03 AM)odusteeler Wrote:  Is it poor scheduling? Perhaps. But they get scraps for time when sharing the arena with basketball. Nevertheless, there are two takeaways from the attendance figures. One - ODU's attendance correlates to the ranking of the opponent, not the location of the school (VT, Iowa St., UVA, & UNI drew the best). Two - ODU is 18th in the nation in overall attendance (90 heads behind Michigan), ahead of every MAC school except UNI. Why would the conference leadership want to get rid of us?

Simple: all you talk about is the benefits to ODU, and not to the conference. Of course you want ODU in the MAC, but how has the MAC benefitted.

To be fair I tried to look up attendance at other MAC schools, to see how interest in ODU compared w/ MAC teams...but they didn't list their dual match attendance. That would tell as much or more about ODU's benefit to the conference, but I have no info on that.

Quote:Where did you speak with Joe Russell about scholarships?

In the GMU wrestling room.

Quote: If you're so concerned with the health of Mason's program,

I'm concerned about the MAC and collegiate wrestling. You're taking this a bit personally. If you really want to be productive, do something about those ODU technique videos. They're not very good.

Those videos were good enough to beat every MAC team in the conference tourney.

ODU has made the conference better, as have Mizzou & UNI. We've provided an attendance boost, an additional top 25 team, and added qualifiers to the conference tournament. You should poll the coaches in the MAC to see how they feel about adding us. I don't think you'll find one person opposed.

(03-14-2014 10:41 AM)odusteeler Wrote:  Those videos were good enough to beat every MAC team in the conference tourney.

That's a pathetic statement.

Quote:ODU has made the conference better, as have Mizzou & UNI.

In what way?

Quote: We've provided an attendance boost,

In what way? Simply b/c another team was added? MAC might as well merge w/ the Pac 6 if that's your logic.

Quote:an additional top 25 team, and added qualifiers to the conference tournament.

To what end? How did that benefit the MAC?

Quote: You should poll the coaches in the MAC to see how they feel about adding us. I don't think you'll find one person opposed.

I should. But that's not exactly what I posed. I said both would do better apart from each other. That's what should be considered.

UMass as a MAC football team is damn stupid. I've been opposed to that from the beginning.

ODU as a MAC wrestling team is nowhere near as bad. Might even be convinced it's good, w/ real evidence. But until then, there are good reasons to believe this doesn't serve the MAC, even if ODU appreciates the charity.

Qualifying allotments are based on regular season RPIs. So, essentially if there are 3 good wrestlers at the weight in the conference, then the conference will be awarded 3 auto qualifiers for that weight (the top 3 placers). But those spots are available to everyone at the tourney. So ODU (& UNI & Mizzou) have added auto bids to the MAC that wouldn't be there otherwise.

Your original post was not as much directed at the MAC, rather about how ODU should develop local rivalries with Mason & American. I've pointed out the flaw in that argument. Until those schools start putting real resources behind their programs, it won't move the needle in Norfolk.

At the end of the day, your administrators thought it was a good move to add ODU. The benefits outweighed the costs. So I guess I'm on their side - the correct one. But you are right in that I don't really care about the MAC as a whole. Just as it exists through the prizm of wrestling.

(03-14-2014 12:27 PM)odusteeler Wrote:  Qualifying allotments are based on regular season RPIs. So, essentially if there are 3 good wrestlers at the weight in the conference, then the conference will be awarded 3 auto qualifiers for that weight (the top 3 placers). But those spots are available to everyone at the tourney. So ODU (& UNI & Mizzou) have added auto bids to the MAC that wouldn't be there otherwise.

Your original post was not as much directed at the MAC, rather about how ODU should develop local rivalries with Mason & American. I've pointed out the flaw in that argument. Until those schools start putting real resources behind their programs, it won't move the needle in Norfolk.

At the end of the day, your administrators thought it was a good move to add ODU. The benefits outweighed the costs. So I guess I'm on their side - the correct one. But you are right in that I don't really care about the MAC as a whole. Just as it exists through the prizm of wrestling.

Aim High Monarchs

(03-14-2014 12:27 PM)odusteeler Wrote:  Your original post was not as much directed at the MAC, rather about how ODU should develop local rivalries with Mason & American. I've pointed out the flaw in that argument. Until those schools start putting real resources behind their programs, it won't move the needle in Norfolk.

Except your proof doesn't exist. The MAC didn't move the needle in Norfolk either. But it did cost $.

Quote:At the end of the day, your administrators thought it was a good move to add ODU.

Pfft. I dare you to prove MAC administrators "thought" about anything. Ever.

Quote:But you are right in that I don't really care about the MAC as a whole. Just as it exists through the prizm of wrestling.

Exactly. MAC doesn't have the luxury of offering charity to you, UMass, or any other team. That's why it's ridiculous that they keep doing it.

(03-14-2014 05:01 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(03-14-2014 12:27 PM)odusteeler Wrote:  Your original post was not as much directed at the MAC, rather about how ODU should develop local rivalries with Mason & American. I've pointed out the flaw in that argument. Until those schools start putting real resources behind their programs, it won't move the needle in Norfolk.

Except your proof doesn't exist. The MAC didn't move the needle in Norfolk either. But it did cost $.

Quote:At the end of the day, your administrators thought it was a good move to add ODU.

Pfft. I dare you to prove MAC administrators "thought" about anything. Ever.

Quote:But you are right in that I don't really care about the MAC as a whole. Just as it exists through the prizm of wrestling.

Exactly. MAC doesn't have the luxury of offering charity to you, UMass, or any other team. That's why it's ridiculous that they keep doing it.

Can't speak to UMass, nor do I care. What is rediculous is that you can't see the value added by Mizzou, UNI, & ODU. UNI & ODU are the only 2 MAC teams that wre listed on the attendance link I gave you. When you say the MAC don't move the needle in Norfolk, I guess they don't move the needle for themselves either.