Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Could the B1G take MSG from the new Big East? Esp if they add UConn.
Author Message
Big Ron Buckeye Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 659
Joined: Jun 2008
Reputation: 25
I Root For: THE Ohio State
Location:
Post: #1
Could the B1G take MSG from the new Big East? Esp if they add UConn.
Ok, so I am admittedly a Ohio State/B1G fan but I think this is a question worth considering. If the new Big East can't fill up the Madison Square Garden or generate big time buzz in the city with its new league makeup, does Delany and pals have a good argument to get into the rotation in Manhattan?
For starters the B1G will rotate between Midwest and Eastern sites for their conference Tourney and obviously Chicago, Indianapolis, DC, and NYC are in the mix. I think Indy gets dropped from the Bball rotation and gets the permanent football conf championship game. That gives the much larger more international city of Chicago the Tourney once every 2 years. DC & NYC would get the tourney once every 4 years in that scenario.
An interesting idea to toss around though would be that if the Big Ten draws better in NYC than the new Big East, could they bump the new Big East? Furthermore if UConn gets AAU status and picks up a B1G invite, could that tip the scales to having just Chicago and NYC as the sole sites even if that means the new Big East has to move every other year?
03-08-2014 05:51 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


lumberpack4 Offline
Banned

Posts: 4,336
Joined: Jun 2013
I Root For: ACC
Location:
Post: #2
RE: Could the B1G take MSG from the new Big East? Esp if they add UConn.
Ron, UCONN is not going to get the invites needed to join the "club". The club has 63 members, and you need 48 votes. The Boston area schools have no reason to vote for UConn, nor the Southern Block, nor the California Block. UCONN does not begin to have the quantity of graduate research needed to get the necessary votes. Also for anyone to be added to the AAU, someone has to be kicked out. Kansas and a handful of smaller institutions are under the review gun that led to the ouster of Nebraska and the voluntary exit of Syracuse.

AAU is just a club whose main thrust now is to aggregate federal research dollars and keep those dollars in those institutions hands. The last two voted in were GT and Boston U. The last two to voted upon and not getting in were NC State and Cincy. NC State missed by one vote in 2010 according to the scuttle. Look at the metrics of GT, Boston U, NC State, and Cincy. Look at the total research dollars delivered by all groups outside the USDA, then look at faculty publishing, patents, and relationships between higher ups and all five major AAU groups - The Big 10 group, the California Group, The Boston Area Group, The NY Group, and the Southerners no one group can vote you in, but a blackball from a single subgroup will keep you out.

Go here to see what you are up against:

http://mup.asu.edu/research_data.html

The most recent tables show for example under total research:

1 - John's Hopkins
28 - GT
50 - VT
51 - Cincy
58 - NC State
63 - Boston U
128 - UConn

Even if you add UConn's total with their medical college they only get to the upper 80's.

Now if you take a second step and divide the dollar level of research by the size of the university, you get a more precise number that identifies the dollars of research per student, per faculty member, etc.

The bottom line is that Kansas, and Brandeis are the two under the gun now. If they slide through, two or three more will take their place, but once the AAU has dropped the next 3-5, there is no-one else that really looks to get the boot. Since AAU has indicated they want to stay around 60 schools and they have 63 or so with two from Canada, there is little room to move up.

Scuttle says VT will get a vote next time around - in about two years. They have a good chance but like the vote with NC State, it will be close.
(This post was last modified: 03-08-2014 06:44 PM by lumberpack4.)
03-08-2014 06:29 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
lumberpack4 Offline
Banned

Posts: 4,336
Joined: Jun 2013
I Root For: ACC
Location:
Post: #3
RE: Could the B1G take MSG from the new Big East? Esp if they add UConn.
To make you feel better, the B10 took Nebraska while Michigan and others knew NU was going to be tossed out of AAU. In that vein, Kansas will likely be tossed due to fading demographics at some point in the next 20 years unless the rules are changed. The AAU requirement for the B10 is not real - don't put stock in that.
(This post was last modified: 03-08-2014 06:52 PM by lumberpack4.)
03-08-2014 06:52 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Big Ron Buckeye Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 659
Joined: Jun 2008
Reputation: 25
I Root For: THE Ohio State
Location:
Post: #4
RE: Could the B1G take MSG from the new Big East? Esp if they add UConn.
Thanks for the reply LumberPack4.
I'm not in academia so I don't hear the scuttlebutt regarding the AAU and the politics behind membership so thanks for the informative post. Maybe I'm delusional but I really like UConn to the B1G to make a big dent in the NYC DMA, and solidly get the league into New England. It's a long term project but the most densely populated region in the contry is ripe for the taking if you can get good presence and a steady diet of big name programs coming to town or better yet have those programs in the are become powerful themselves.
Back to the academics, I know the Big Ten is huge on research, and while I've seen a lot of posts speak about US News rankings which focus on undergrad I agree with you that a school's research profile is a far better indicator of consideration if all of the other boxes checked so to speak.
With that being said, do you think UConn makes a good candidate otherwise in Big Ten Expansion?
03-08-2014 07:54 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BruceMcF Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 13,109
Joined: Jan 2013
Reputation: 763
I Root For: Reds/Buckeyes/.
Location:
Post: #5
RE: Could the B1G take MSG from the new Big East? Esp if they add UConn.
Quick answer ... not on its own, no. Whether one year in three, or four, or eight, on its own an infrequent BigTen tournament would not bump the New Big East as an annual event.
03-08-2014 08:08 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bitcruncher Offline
pepperoni roll psycho...
*

Posts: 61,859
Joined: Jan 2006
Reputation: 526
I Root For: West Virginia
Location: Knoxville, TN
Post: #6
RE: Could the B1G take MSG from the new Big East? Esp if they add UConn.
Boss Hijack strikes again. We've gotten sidetracked. The OP was whether or not the B1G could take MSG from the new Big East. The UConn issue was a minor side issue to the OP, since nobody expects the B1G to invite the Huskies. But the only thing everyone wants to discuss is something that isn't central to the equation.

As to the original question, it's a good question. It wouldn't surprise me if the B1G did end up using MSG for their tournament, especially if the Big East can't fill it. That's an interesting question.
03-08-2014 08:12 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


brista21 Offline
The Birthplace of College Football
*

Posts: 10,042
Joined: Apr 2005
Reputation: 262
I Root For: Rutgers
Location: North Jersey

Donators
Post: #7
RE: Could the B1G take MSG from the new Big East? Esp if they add UConn.
Long term I think the Big East, ACC and Big Ten end up in a rotation for MSG.
03-08-2014 08:46 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BruceMcF Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 13,109
Joined: Jan 2013
Reputation: 763
I Root For: Reds/Buckeyes/.
Location:
Post: #8
RE: Could the B1G take MSG from the new Big East? Esp if they add UConn.
(03-08-2014 08:12 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  It wouldn't surprise me if the B1G did end up using MSG for their tournament, especially if the Big East can't fill it. That's an interesting question.
Whether or not the Big East can fill it every year, the Big Ten is guaranteed to be unable to fill it every year, since they'll play over half of the time west of the Appalachias.
03-08-2014 08:53 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Big Ron Buckeye Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 659
Joined: Jun 2008
Reputation: 25
I Root For: THE Ohio State
Location:
Post: #9
RE: Could the B1G take MSG from the new Big East? Esp if they add UConn.
(03-08-2014 08:53 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Whether or not the Big East can fill it every year, the Big Ten is guaranteed to be unable to fill it every year, since they'll play over half of the time west of the Appalachias.

I'm not sure how you figure that. Inasmuch as the Big Ten states have been in decline relative to their southern peers for the better part of the past half century, the Big Ten Universities have been cranking out more grads than any other conference for a long time. If you're well educated and no opportunties are available to you in your area, you'll move. So you have B1G Ten alumni literally all over the country. Especially in the Northeast Megalopolis. Delany was saying that prior to adding Maryland and Rutgers that the B1G had in excess of half a million alums from Northern Virginia to Southern New England. I've seen in the past two years Maryland play Kentucky and UConn in Brooklyn, they were deep. Penn St, Michigan, Ohio St, Wisconsin, Indiana all have massive alum within a reasonable drive. Not sure how you come to the conclusion that B1G won't fill up an arena in the east.
03-08-2014 09:26 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
lumberpack4 Offline
Banned

Posts: 4,336
Joined: Jun 2013
I Root For: ACC
Location:
Post: #10
RE: Could the B1G take MSG from the new Big East? Esp if they add UConn.
(03-08-2014 09:26 PM)Big Ron Buckeye Wrote:  
(03-08-2014 08:53 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Whether or not the Big East can fill it every year, the Big Ten is guaranteed to be unable to fill it every year, since they'll play over half of the time west of the Appalachias.

I'm not sure how you figure that. Inasmuch as the Big Ten states have been in decline relative to their southern peers for the better part of the past half century, the Big Ten Universities have been cranking out more grads than any other conference for a long time. If you're well educated and no opportunties are available to you in your area, you'll move. So you have B1G Ten alumni literally all over the country. Especially in the Northeast Megalopolis. Delany was saying that prior to adding Maryland and Rutgers that the B1G had in excess of half a million alums from Northern Virginia to Southern New England. I've seen in the past two years Maryland play Kentucky and UConn in Brooklyn, they were deep. Penn St, Michigan, Ohio St, Wisconsin, Indiana all have massive alum within a reasonable drive. Not sure how you come to the conclusion that B1G won't fill up an arena in the east.

Do the math on the cost of a five day stay in NYC.

Then do that math again.

Then do that math one more time.

While the allure of MSG is great, these tournaments are a crap shoot for fans if the fix is not in and the talent is spread fairly evenly at the top of the leagues. The tournement does mean as much as it used to due to the expansion of the NCAA field. When the only way to get to the NCAA was to win the ACC title in the tournament, the ACC tournament was one of the toughest tickets in the nation.

The closest B10 teams to MSG stink at basketball. Penn State and Rutgers stink. While there are lot of Ohio State and Michigan fans in NYC, you will be asking them to buy tickets and attend basketball games over several days in NYC.

Four nights in the NYC area will cost at least $1,000 at a decent hotel. Your tickets will cost another $1,000 or so at least. Your meals will cost at least $500. Airfare from Columbus or Detroit will cost another $500. Very quickly you are at $3000 for said tournament.

To sell it out, Maryland has to be in the top third of the league, Rutgers in the top half and Penn State must not stink. That's like an inside straight.

Now all these things are "sold out". The real question is if there is secondary market demand to put butts in the seats. UConn would help with that no doubt.
(This post was last modified: 03-08-2014 09:51 PM by lumberpack4.)
03-08-2014 09:48 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Big Ron Buckeye Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 659
Joined: Jun 2008
Reputation: 25
I Root For: THE Ohio State
Location:
Post: #11
RE: Could the B1G take MSG from the new Big East? Esp if they add UConn.
(03-08-2014 09:48 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  
(03-08-2014 09:26 PM)Big Ron Buckeye Wrote:  
(03-08-2014 08:53 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Whether or not the Big East can fill it every year, the Big Ten is guaranteed to be unable to fill it every year, since they'll play over half of the time west of the Appalachias.

I'm not sure how you figure that. Inasmuch as the Big Ten states have been in decline relative to their southern peers for the better part of the past half century, the Big Ten Universities have been cranking out more grads than any other conference for a long time. If you're well educated and no opportunties are available to you in your area, you'll move. So you have B1G Ten alumni literally all over the country. Especially in the Northeast Megalopolis. Delany was saying that prior to adding Maryland and Rutgers that the B1G had in excess of half a million alums from Northern Virginia to Southern New England. I've seen in the past two years Maryland play Kentucky and UConn in Brooklyn, they were deep. Penn St, Michigan, Ohio St, Wisconsin, Indiana all have massive alum within a reasonable drive. Not sure how you come to the conclusion that B1G won't fill up an arena in the east.

Do the math on the cost of a five day stay in NYC.

Then do that math again.

Then do that math one more time.

While the allure of MSG is great, these tournaments are a crap shoot for fans if the fix is not in and the talent is spread fairly evenly at the top of the leagues. The tournement does mean as much as it used to due to the expansion of the NCAA field. When the only way to get to the NCAA was to win the ACC title in the tournament, the ACC tournament was one of the toughest tickets in the nation.

The closest B10 teams to MSG stink at basketball. Penn State and Rutgers stink. While there are lot of Ohio State and Michigan fans in NYC, you will be asking them to buy tickets and attend basketball games over several days in NYC.

Four nights in the NYC area will cost at least $1,000 at a decent hotel. Your tickets will cost another $1,000 or so at least. Your meals will cost at least $500. Airfare from Columbus or Detroit will cost another $500. Very quickly you are at $3000 for said tournament.

To sell it out, Maryland has to be in the top third of the league, Rutgers in the top half and Penn State must not stink. That's like an inside straight.

Now all these things are "sold out". The real question is if there is secondary market demand to put butts in the seats. UConn would help with that no doubt.

Touche'
So for the B1G to take NYC and the Garden, gotta have UConn...
03-08-2014 10:26 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


GE and MTS Offline
Moderator
*

Posts: 3,656
Joined: Apr 2012
Reputation: 83
I Root For: Liberty/Penn St
Location: FBS!!!
Post: #12
RE: Could the B1G take MSG from the new Big East? Esp if they add UConn.
I think the Big Ten needs time in order to take MSG from the Big East. The Big East is not what it once was, and may never regain the luster of arguably the best basketball conference. In the meantime, if Rutgers and Penn State make significant strides in basketball, that may create enough of a demand for them at MSG. However, the Big Ten would have to fend off the ACC who could add UConn (who I think has almost no shot at joining the Big Ten).

So could the Big Ten take MSG from the Big East? Yes. Do they need UConn? No. Is it likely? Not for a decade or more in my opinion.
03-08-2014 10:33 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bluesox Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,295
Joined: Jan 2006
Reputation: 84
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #13
RE: Could the B1G take MSG from the new Big East? Esp if they add UConn.
The better ? is why in the world would the big 10 go to NYC over chicago and Indy? i mean maybe once every 10 years could work but the big 10 is a midwest conference, chicago trumps nyc in that a case.
03-08-2014 10:51 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Minutemen429 Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 863
Joined: Feb 2011
Reputation: 37
I Root For: UMass
Location:
Post: #14
RE: Could the B1G take MSG from the new Big East? Esp if they add UConn.
Lumberjack is obviously obsessed with UConn, just look at his posts, but UConn will not make the the BIG number 1in New York just like Cuse doesn't make the ACC number one in New York
03-08-2014 11:19 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DefCONNOne Offline
That damn MLS!!

Posts: 11,005
Joined: Jul 2013
I Root For: UCONN
Location: MLS HQ
Post: #15
RE: Could the B1G take MSG from the new Big East? Esp if they add UConn.
(03-08-2014 11:19 PM)Minutemen429 Wrote:  Lumberjack is obviously obsessed with UConn, just look at his posts, but UConn will not make the the BIG number 1in New York just like Cuse doesn't make the ACC number one in New York

What's this? 04-jawdrop A voice of reason, and no negativity, regarding UCONN? With such unbiased posters like bitcruncer, lumberpack, all the 'Cuse fans, all the Louisville fans, the 2 or 3 fans of BC and UNC grabbing heaping shovelfulls of dirt and throwing it on the (alleged) UCONN grave; you'll have to forgive me for being shocked at anything remotely positive re:UCONN.
03-08-2014 11:35 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Rube Dali Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,018
Joined: Jan 2014
Reputation: 46
I Root For: UST, BSU, Minn
Location: Maplewood, MN
Post: #16
RE: Could the B1G take MSG from the new Big East? Esp if they add UConn.
(03-08-2014 10:51 PM)bluesox Wrote:  The better ? is why in the world would the big 10 go to NYC over chicago and Indy? i mean maybe once every 10 years could work but the big 10 is a midwest conference, chicago trumps nyc in that a case.

I disagree, the B1G should never go to MSG(or Brooklyn, or DC, or Philly, or Pittsburgh for that matter).
03-08-2014 11:38 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement


gosports1 Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,845
Joined: Sep 2008
Reputation: 153
I Root For: providence
Location:
Post: #17
RE: Could the B1G take MSG from the new Big East? Esp if they add UConn.
I believe the powers that be at msg have made it clearrthey wantlong tterm commitment. So if the b10 wants to rotate their sites they are out of luck. Unless of course they go in with anotherlleague to fill in the odd year that the b10 goes to Chicago or wherever
(This post was last modified: 03-08-2014 11:42 PM by gosports1.)
03-08-2014 11:41 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Big Ron Buckeye Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 659
Joined: Jun 2008
Reputation: 25
I Root For: THE Ohio State
Location:
Post: #18
RE: Could the B1G take MSG from the new Big East? Esp if they add UConn.
(03-08-2014 10:33 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  I think the Big Ten needs time in order to take MSG from the Big East. The Big East is not what it once was, and may never regain the luster of arguably the best basketball conference. In the meantime, if Rutgers and Penn State make significant strides in basketball, that may create enough of a demand for them at MSG. However, the Big Ten would have to fend off the ACC who could add UConn (who I think has almost no shot at joining the Big Ten).

So could the Big Ten take MSG from the Big East? Yes. Do they need UConn? No. Is it likely? Not for a decade or more in my opinion.

I think the ACC is in the same boat as the Big Ten. The heart and soul of the conference is quite a distance away. So just like I think that the Big Ten will have every other Tourney in their back yard I think the same holds true for the ACC. In Theory the B1G and ACC could rotate between NYC (either Brooklyn or Manhattan) and their traditional stompin grounds and the new Big East has the other site as permanent.
03-09-2014 01:03 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Frank the Tank Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 18,722
Joined: Jun 2008
Reputation: 1775
I Root For: Illinois/DePaul
Location: Chicago
Post: #19
RE: Could the B1G take MSG from the new Big East? Esp if they add UConn.
This discussion seems to keep coming up because some fans seem to want to kick the Big East out of MSG for whatever reason, but it's very simple: MSG wants a conference that's going to come *every* year. The Big East is obviously willing to do that, but the Big Ten and ACC would only want to go to NYC on a sporadic basis (as they need to be in Chicago/Indy and Greensboro for the bulk of the time). That's a pretty big deal - the Big East is willing to sign a contract to pay rent at MSG for 10-plus years. The ticket selling onus is much more on the conference - MSG doesn't really care about the attendance as long as they're receiving market-rate rent annually. So, the fact that the ACC or Big Ten could sell more tickets doesn't mean that much to MSG itself if the Big East is willing to pay market rate rent every year without interruption.
(This post was last modified: 03-09-2014 07:34 AM by Frank the Tank.)
03-09-2014 07:32 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
chargeradio Offline
Vamos Morados
*

Posts: 7,468
Joined: Mar 2007
Reputation: 121
I Root For: ALA, KY, USA
Location: Louisville, KY
Post: #20
Could the B1G take MSG from the new Big East? Esp if they add UConn.
Could the Big East add anyone to help them with attendance at MSG? St. Louis is probably the consensus #11, but could #12 be someone closer to NYC than Dayton or Richmond?
03-09-2014 08:26 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2024 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2024 MyBB Group.