(03-07-2014 06:04 PM)RecoveringHillbilly Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 03:36 PM)bullet Wrote:  And Nassau County is really in the NY market and Providence in the Boston market as far as pro sports.

Though, it is informative to show how the L.I. Metropolitan Division can be viewed like Newark. Also a part of the NY media market, but seen as having its own Newark Metropolitan Division (2,126,269) with professional and college teams.

And Stony Brook is quite out there, so it's very residential with 11,000 students living on campus. Army is closer to the Bronx than Stony Brook's campus is to Queens (50+ miles). A similar situation would be how FAU in Baton Raton is 45 miles from Miami, while also surrounded by a large population to draw from.

The foundation of sports fandom is tribalism, "Yay Us, Boo Them, Buy a T-Shirt." Long Island definitely qualifies as an identity, that a team could tap into.

(03-08-2014 02:41 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 06:04 PM)RecoveringHillbilly Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 03:36 PM)bullet Wrote:  And Nassau County is really in the NY market and Providence in the Boston market as far as pro sports.

Though, it is informative to show how the L.I. Metropolitan Division can be viewed like Newark. Also a part of the NY media market, but seen as having its own Newark Metropolitan Division (2,126,269) with professional and college teams.

And Stony Brook is quite out there, so it's very residential with 11,000 students living on campus. Army is closer to the Bronx than Stony Brook's campus is to Queens (50+ miles). A similar situation would be how FAU in Baton Raton is 45 miles from Miami, while also surrounded by a large population to draw from.

The foundation of sports fandom is tribalism, "Yay Us, Boo Them, Buy a T-Shirt." Long Island definitely qualifies as an identity, that a team could tap into.

There is not a lot to do in Long Island either, another factor.

The issue with SBU was thought to be a limit on expanding that stadium beyond 15,000 but for the MAC it might be OK as long as they can sell out every game with corporate tickets.

(03-08-2014 01:28 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  The MWC has more of an identity.

CUSA is largely a lost tribe with a bunch of schools new to FBS and mostly without reputations in Division 1, Western Kentucky excepted.

The MWC is a fine conference, but their flagship programs struggled in the bowl season. Fresno and Boise, the two football flagships of the conference, didn't end the season well. Fresno State got walloped by USC, and Boise lost to Oregon State. In the only bowl match-up between the MWC and C-USA, North Texas embarrassed UNLV on New Year's Day. Identities can change quickly.

We certainly have different views of C-USA. I believe C-USA is a combination of established conference rivals (Southern Miss, Marshall, Rice, UTEP, and UAB), along with programs with lots of potential, that just needed a larger stage, and/or regional rivals, in order to develop their brands (North Texas, LA Tech, UTSA, MTSU, WKU, Charlotte, Old Dominion, FAU, & FIU). Yes, UTSA is new to football, and Charlotte and ODU are moving up, but C-USA plays some good football.

(03-08-2014 02:08 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  After being in a Western-based league since pretty-much forever, UTEP made the decision to move to a league with 4 other TX-based members in April 2004. Everything I have heard or read from UTEP fans and leaders over the past decade since then has bolstered the idea that UTEP is glad they made the switch and has little-to-no interest in going back.

I think any school is always open to new opportunities. Especially when a school that is an extreme geographic outlier in their conference. But on balance, I think UTEP probably stays with C-USA for a long time.

To be fair, UTEP saw playing games against SMU, Houston, and Rice, (all ex-SWC schools) to be more attractive than a gutted WAC. Of those Texas opponents, only Rice remains. We simply don't know if UTEP would have left the current MW to play with Rice, N Texas, and UTSA. My opinion is that UTEP would probably be better off partnering with Texas St (or Rice) and moving to the MW. Texas St (or Rice) and a slate of more established MW teams would be fairly attractive football line up for UTEP. In basketball, there is no doubt UTEP would be better off going west.

(03-08-2014 02:08 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  After being in a Western-based league since pretty-much forever, UTEP made the decision to move to a league with 4 other TX-based members in April 2004. Everything I have heard or read from UTEP fans and leaders over the past decade since then has bolstered the idea that UTEP is glad they made the switch and has little-to-no interest in going back.

I think any school is always open to new opportunities. Especially when a school that is an extreme geographic outlier in their conference. But on balance, I think UTEP probably stays with C-USA for a long time.

UTEP is a BB school. MW BB is far better. They jump if they get the chance.

Paycheck is way better in MWC as well

(03-08-2014 11:14 PM)billings Wrote:  

(03-08-2014 02:08 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  After being in a Western-based league since pretty-much forever, UTEP made the decision to move to a league with 4 other TX-based members in April 2004. Everything I have heard or read from UTEP fans and leaders over the past decade since then has bolstered the idea that UTEP is glad they made the switch and has little-to-no interest in going back.

I think any school is always open to new opportunities. Especially when a school that is an extreme geographic outlier in their conference. But on balance, I think UTEP probably stays with C-USA for a long time.

UTEP is a BB school. MW BB is far better. They jump if they get the chance.

Paycheck is way better in MWC as well

It's also a university, though. Do they draw more students from Houston, Dallas, SAn ANtonio, or Denver, Albuquerque and California? And where do their donating alumni live, Dallas or Denver?

(03-03-2014 11:20 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(03-03-2014 11:01 AM)HuskyU Wrote:  

(03-03-2014 09:33 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  should be more like 25K as the minimum attendance.

That would kill off a good amount of the G5.

And that would be a mercy killing for most of them.

I split the difference at 20K, which I believe would leave the FBS at 105 schools (with a couple of FCS schools moving up and a bunch of G5s moving down).

I would relegate nearly all of the MAC to FCS, and would merge C-USA and the Sunbelt into a single southern conference. The NCAA would have to waive one of its rules about schools playing together for a certain number of years for this transition. My new Sunbelt (or C-USA if you prefer) would consist of (in descending order of attendance):

UT San Antonio
Arkansas State
Louisiana Tech
Southern Miss
LA-Monroe
LA-Lafayette
Troy
Rice
Tulane

A new eastern conference would consist of:

Navy
Army
Appalachian State
James Madison
Marshall
Ohio
Toledo
Old Dominion

I don't see the G5 leagues returning to more regional setups. The reason is that national conferences or at least conferences with multiple regions have more value than those limited to a small region.

The average size of a Division 1 conference is now 11 schools. G5 leagues know they aren't going to fool anyone in thinking they are equal in caliber to the P5 conferences. What they can do with strategically selected growth to 16 or 18 schools is build a perception that they are more valuable properties than small 10 school non-FBS conferences.

Larger conferences do split revenue pies among more mouths but there are economies of scale in having more Olympic sport offerings than a smaller conference. It can usually help defray travel costs.

I honestly think in the case of CUSA if you split that conference in half, each half would be worth about 25% of the TV revenue. The only reason why they have the TV deal as large as what it is because they are a 14 team mega conference across the south. That gives CBS Sports and Fox a lot more to work with market wise over the Ohio Valley or Southern Conference.

G5 leagues should be trying to pick up all the remaining valuable athletic pieces out there to put more distance on the WCC, MVC and A10.

AAC (Wichita St)
MWC (Gonzaga)
SBC (Missouri St, NDSU FB only, Liberty FB only)
MAC (UMass, JMU, Delaware, Illinois St)

The MAC and SBC should be 2 bid basketball conferences with a couple key additions. Sets up the MAC as a nice Midwest/East all sport conference and the SBC with a national football presence. Also if I was the SBC I would push to 14 football schools to protect against defections.

(03-03-2014 01:21 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  I was looking at the attendance figures in FCS and couldn't help but notice what a thin list of schools that averaged 10,000 last year.

This is a list of all 10k plus FCS schools (excluding Ivy and HBCU members).

1. Montana 24,380
2. James Madison 21,011
3. Montana St. 19,704
4. North Dakota St. 18,672
5. Delaware 18,108
6. Jacksonville St. 15,118
7. Liberty 15,031
8. Youngstown St 13,506
9. Citadel 13,155
10. Northern Iowa 12,572
11. McNeese St 12,072
12. South Dakota St. 10,694
13. Illinois St. 10,139

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_r...e/2013.pdf

Points from the data:

-With the Montana schools growing, I wouldn't put it past the MWC to take them in the event they get raided.

-The MAC could very easily take 3 schools of this list if they expanded to 16 with JMU, Delaware and Illinois St.

-The SBC sounds concerned about academics of Liberty and some of the other possibilities. The Citadel is the school they should be looking at with a 21,000 seat stadium. They would round out the SBC East nicely from a geographic perspective.

Forget Delaware and ISU for the MAC. ND ST & JMU would be great adds. NDST with 3 consecutive FCS titles would also get the MAC into the Minneapolis TV market as they have a big fanbase there. JMU has a larger undergrad enrollment than Virginia and would be the 2nd largest FBS program in a state that is loaded with talent that the MAC Ohio & Michigan teams need to improve

(03-09-2014 09:00 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  I don't see the G5 leagues returning to more regional setups. The reason is that national conferences or at least conferences with multiple regions have more value than those limited to a small region.

Dubious. Does anyone believe that the Sun Belt is more valuable with Idaho and NMSU than without them?

The G-5 conferences have limited value because their schools have limited value. Possibly if you picked the top 12 schools out of G-5, you might get $3M per year, but that's because you're combining the strongest schools and biggish markets like Connecticut and San Diego County, not because you've created national reach.

Quote:The average size of a Division 1 conference is now 11 schools. G5 leagues know they aren't going to fool anyone in thinking they are equal in caliber to the P5 conferences. What they can do with strategically selected growth to 16 or 18 schools is build a perception that they are more valuable properties than small 10 school non-FBS conferences.

Depends on the 10 schools.

Quote:Larger conferences do split revenue pies among more mouths but there are economies of scale in having more Olympic sport offerings than a smaller conference. It can usually help defray travel costs.

I honestly think in the case of CUSA if you split that conference in half, each half would be worth about 25% of the TV revenue. The only reason why they have the TV deal as large as what it is because they are a 14 team mega conference across the south. That gives CBS Sports and Fox a lot more to work with market wise over the Ohio Valley or Southern Conference.

If you're talking about 2 7-school conferences, then probably. If you're talking about reshuffling CUSA and the Sun Belt, splitting at the Mississippi, then probably not.

Quote:G5 leagues should be trying to pick up all the remaining valuable athletic pieces out there

Isn't that pretty much automatically true?

Quote:to put more distance on the WCC, MVC and A10.

AAC (Wichita St)
MWC (Gonzaga)
SBC (Missouri St, NDSU FB only, Liberty FB only)
MAC (UMass, JMU, Delaware, Illinois St)

The MAC and SBC should be 2 bid basketball conferences with a couple key additions. Sets up the MAC as a nice Midwest/East all sport conference and the SBC with a national football presence. Also if I was the SBC I would push to 14 football schools to protect against defections.

I suppose the MAC and Sun Belt, and CUSA, should be strategizing long-term against the chance of a FBS-NCAA split, increasing their basketball value. But that's probably a long way away, and the commissioners and a lot of the presidents will be gone by then.

(03-09-2014 07:13 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-08-2014 11:14 PM)billings Wrote:  

(03-08-2014 02:08 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  After being in a Western-based league since pretty-much forever, UTEP made the decision to move to a league with 4 other TX-based members in April 2004. Everything I have heard or read from UTEP fans and leaders over the past decade since then has bolstered the idea that UTEP is glad they made the switch and has little-to-no interest in going back.

I think any school is always open to new opportunities. Especially when a school that is an extreme geographic outlier in their conference. But on balance, I think UTEP probably stays with C-USA for a long time.

UTEP is a BB school. MW BB is far better. They jump if they get the chance.

Paycheck is way better in MWC as well

It's also a university, though. Do they draw more students from Houston, Dallas, SAn ANtonio, or Denver, Albuquerque and California? And where do their donating alumni live, Dallas or Denver?

http://cierpdata.utep.edu/OnlineFactBook...egion.aspx

Their undergraduate enrollment this year is ~23000.
Based on their factbook data, 19,000 come from El Paso County.

The second highest Texas county is Dallas at 86. Followed by the rest of the list,
86 students from Dallas County
83 students from Harris County (Houston)
82 students came from Bexar County (San Antonio)
67 students from Tarrant (Fort Worth)
52 students from Travis (Austin)

By comparison they have more students coming in from
Mexico - 1481
New Mexico - 268
California - 163
Arizona - 60


I've always heard that UTEP stays in a Texas conference so they can play in front of alumni crowds throughout the state, but their footprint seems to be localized out west. There are 23 Division I programs (including 12 FBS teams) in Texas, they could join the MWC and play an OOC game in the eastern half of the state every year.

The MWC has the advantage of having several actual Flagship schools rather than the 3rd-12th school in a given state and a geographic area with much less P5 competition. An expanded MWC with a pair of TX schools like UTEP and TXST could be a real force eventually:

(03-10-2014 01:58 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  

(03-09-2014 07:13 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-08-2014 11:14 PM)billings Wrote:  

(03-08-2014 02:08 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  After being in a Western-based league since pretty-much forever, UTEP made the decision to move to a league with 4 other TX-based members in April 2004. Everything I have heard or read from UTEP fans and leaders over the past decade since then has bolstered the idea that UTEP is glad they made the switch and has little-to-no interest in going back.

I think any school is always open to new opportunities. Especially when a school that is an extreme geographic outlier in their conference. But on balance, I think UTEP probably stays with C-USA for a long time.

UTEP is a BB school. MW BB is far better. They jump if they get the chance.

Paycheck is way better in MWC as well

It's also a university, though. Do they draw more students from Houston, Dallas, SAn ANtonio, or Denver, Albuquerque and California? And where do their donating alumni live, Dallas or Denver?

http://cierpdata.utep.edu/OnlineFactBook...egion.aspx

Their undergraduate enrollment this year is ~23000.
Based on their factbook data, 19,000 come from El Paso County.

The second highest Texas county is Dallas at 86. Followed by the rest of the list,
86 students from Dallas County
83 students from Harris County (Houston)
82 students came from Bexar County (San Antonio)
67 students from Tarrant (Fort Worth)
52 students from Travis (Austin)

By comparison they have more students coming in from
Mexico - 1481
New Mexico - 268
California - 163
Arizona - 60


I've always heard that UTEP stays in a Texas conference so they can play in front of alumni crowds throughout the state, but their footprint seems to be localized out west. There are 23 Division I programs (including 12 FBS teams) in Texas, they could join the MWC and play an OOC game in the eastern half of the state every year.

So what you are saying is after counting the 19,000 from El Paso, this is the breakdown by state:

the rest of Texas - 370
New Mexico - 268
California - 163
Arizona - 60

Also, you didn't provide the breakdown for where their alumni live. I work with two UTEP graduates in Fort Worth. When we played them this past football season, they brought around 3,000 to 4,000 fans to Apogee. They have much larger alumni populations in Dallas, Houston, and San Antonio, then you are giving them credit for.

(03-10-2014 01:58 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  

(03-09-2014 07:13 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-08-2014 11:14 PM)billings Wrote:  

(03-08-2014 02:08 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  After being in a Western-based league since pretty-much forever, UTEP made the decision to move to a league with 4 other TX-based members in April 2004. Everything I have heard or read from UTEP fans and leaders over the past decade since then has bolstered the idea that UTEP is glad they made the switch and has little-to-no interest in going back.

I think any school is always open to new opportunities. Especially when a school that is an extreme geographic outlier in their conference. But on balance, I think UTEP probably stays with C-USA for a long time.

UTEP is a BB school. MW BB is far better. They jump if they get the chance.

Paycheck is way better in MWC as well

It's also a university, though. Do they draw more students from Houston, Dallas, SAn ANtonio, or Denver, Albuquerque and California? And where do their donating alumni live, Dallas or Denver?

http://cierpdata.utep.edu/OnlineFactBook...egion.aspx

Their undergraduate enrollment this year is ~23000.
Based on their factbook data, 19,000 come from El Paso County.

The second highest Texas county is Dallas at 86. Followed by the rest of the list,
86 students from Dallas County
83 students from Harris County (Houston)
82 students came from Bexar County (San Antonio)
67 students from Tarrant (Fort Worth)
52 students from Travis (Austin)

By comparison they have more students coming in from
Mexico - 1481
New Mexico - 268
California - 163
Arizona - 60


I've always heard that UTEP stays in a Texas conference so they can play in front of alumni crowds throughout the state, but their footprint seems to be localized out west. There are 23 Division I programs (including 12 FBS teams) in Texas, they could join the MWC and play an OOC game in the eastern half of the state every year.

This is my feeling as well. El Paso is so far from the rest of the population centers of Texas that's its really more like New Mexico than Texas. Going west to the MW wouldn't be that big of a deal for UTEP. Like you said, they could continue to schedule other Texas teams in OOC if they want exposure in the eastern half of Texas.

(03-10-2014 02:29 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-10-2014 01:58 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  

(03-09-2014 07:13 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-08-2014 11:14 PM)billings Wrote:  

(03-08-2014 02:08 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  After being in a Western-based league since pretty-much forever, UTEP made the decision to move to a league with 4 other TX-based members in April 2004. Everything I have heard or read from UTEP fans and leaders over the past decade since then has bolstered the idea that UTEP is glad they made the switch and has little-to-no interest in going back.

I think any school is always open to new opportunities. Especially when a school that is an extreme geographic outlier in their conference. But on balance, I think UTEP probably stays with C-USA for a long time.

UTEP is a BB school. MW BB is far better. They jump if they get the chance.

Paycheck is way better in MWC as well

It's also a university, though. Do they draw more students from Houston, Dallas, SAn ANtonio, or Denver, Albuquerque and California? And where do their donating alumni live, Dallas or Denver?

http://cierpdata.utep.edu/OnlineFactBook...egion.aspx

Their undergraduate enrollment this year is ~23000.
Based on their factbook data, 19,000 come from El Paso County.

The second highest Texas county is Dallas at 86. Followed by the rest of the list,
86 students from Dallas County
83 students from Harris County (Houston)
82 students came from Bexar County (San Antonio)
67 students from Tarrant (Fort Worth)
52 students from Travis (Austin)

By comparison they have more students coming in from
Mexico - 1481
New Mexico - 268
California - 163
Arizona - 60


I've always heard that UTEP stays in a Texas conference so they can play in front of alumni crowds throughout the state, but their footprint seems to be localized out west. There are 23 Division I programs (including 12 FBS teams) in Texas, they could join the MWC and play an OOC game in the eastern half of the state every year.

This is my feeling as well. El Paso is so far from the rest of the population centers of Texas that's its really more like New Mexico than Texas. Going west to the MW wouldn't be that big of a deal for UTEP. Like you said, they could continue to schedule other Texas teams in OOC if they want exposure in the eastern half of Texas.

There are only so many jobs in El Paso for their Alumni to work at. Many of them move to the major cities in Texas. Playing an OOC game every season in eastern Texas isn't going to keep those fans happy, and won't help in recruiting either. UTEP benefits from conferencing with programs in Dallas, Houston, and San Antonio.

(03-10-2014 02:27 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(03-10-2014 01:58 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  

(03-09-2014 07:13 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-08-2014 11:14 PM)billings Wrote:  

(03-08-2014 02:08 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  After being in a Western-based league since pretty-much forever, UTEP made the decision to move to a league with 4 other TX-based members in April 2004. Everything I have heard or read from UTEP fans and leaders over the past decade since then has bolstered the idea that UTEP is glad they made the switch and has little-to-no interest in going back.

I think any school is always open to new opportunities. Especially when a school that is an extreme geographic outlier in their conference. But on balance, I think UTEP probably stays with C-USA for a long time.

UTEP is a BB school. MW BB is far better. They jump if they get the chance.

Paycheck is way better in MWC as well

It's also a university, though. Do they draw more students from Houston, Dallas, SAn ANtonio, or Denver, Albuquerque and California? And where do their donating alumni live, Dallas or Denver?

http://cierpdata.utep.edu/OnlineFactBook...egion.aspx

Their undergraduate enrollment this year is ~23000.
Based on their factbook data, 19,000 come from El Paso County.

The second highest Texas county is Dallas at 86. Followed by the rest of the list,
86 students from Dallas County
83 students from Harris County (Houston)
82 students came from Bexar County (San Antonio)
67 students from Tarrant (Fort Worth)
52 students from Travis (Austin)

By comparison they have more students coming in from
Mexico - 1481
New Mexico - 268
California - 163
Arizona - 60


I've always heard that UTEP stays in a Texas conference so they can play in front of alumni crowds throughout the state, but their footprint seems to be localized out west. There are 23 Division I programs (including 12 FBS teams) in Texas, they could join the MWC and play an OOC game in the eastern half of the state every year.

So what you are saying is after counting the 19,000 from El Paso, this is the breakdown by state:

the rest of Texas - 370
New Mexico - 268
California - 163
Arizona - 60

Also, you didn't provide the breakdown for where their alumni live. I work with two UTEP graduates in Fort Worth. When we played them this past football season, they brought around 3,000 to 4,000 fans to Apogee. They have much larger alumni populations in Dallas, Houston, and San Antonio, then you are giving them credit for.

It doesn't surprise me that they brought 4,000 to Apogee. I've heard that they have alumni bases in DFW, Houston, SA, and Austin and those fans love their Miners. That's why they want to stay in a conference with other Texas teams. However, unlike their enrollment data, they do not list any kind of membership numbers on their website.

Their alumni page shows the geographic chapters are based in Austin, Dallas, El Paso, Houston, San Antonio, and Juarez. They don't mention groups outside the state which leads me to believe that the numbers in places like Denver or ABQ are smaller/unorganized.

The total number of undergraduate Texans at UTEP is 20,119 with 19,378 coming from El Paso County. The rest of Texas accounts for 741 students. The "370" number comes from only those 5 counties.

(03-10-2014 02:44 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  

(03-10-2014 02:27 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(03-10-2014 01:58 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  

(03-09-2014 07:13 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-08-2014 11:14 PM)billings Wrote:  UTEP is a BB school. MW BB is far better. They jump if they get the chance.

Paycheck is way better in MWC as well

It's also a university, though. Do they draw more students from Houston, Dallas, SAn ANtonio, or Denver, Albuquerque and California? And where do their donating alumni live, Dallas or Denver?

http://cierpdata.utep.edu/OnlineFactBook...egion.aspx

Their undergraduate enrollment this year is ~23000.
Based on their factbook data, 19,000 come from El Paso County.

The second highest Texas county is Dallas at 86. Followed by the rest of the list,
86 students from Dallas County
83 students from Harris County (Houston)
82 students came from Bexar County (San Antonio)
67 students from Tarrant (Fort Worth)
52 students from Travis (Austin)

By comparison they have more students coming in from
Mexico - 1481
New Mexico - 268
California - 163
Arizona - 60


I've always heard that UTEP stays in a Texas conference so they can play in front of alumni crowds throughout the state, but their footprint seems to be localized out west. There are 23 Division I programs (including 12 FBS teams) in Texas, they could join the MWC and play an OOC game in the eastern half of the state every year.

So what you are saying is after counting the 19,000 from El Paso, this is the breakdown by state:

the rest of Texas - 370
New Mexico - 268
California - 163
Arizona - 60

Also, you didn't provide the breakdown for where their alumni live. I work with two UTEP graduates in Fort Worth. When we played them this past football season, they brought around 3,000 to 4,000 fans to Apogee. They have much larger alumni populations in Dallas, Houston, and San Antonio, then you are giving them credit for.

It doesn't surprise me that they brought 4,000 to Apogee. I've heard that they have alumni bases in DFW, Houston, SA, and Austin and those fans love their Miners. That's why they want to stay in a conference with other Texas teams. However, unlike their enrollment data, they do not list any kind of membership numbers on their website.

Their alumni page shows the geographic chapters are based in Austin, Dallas, El Paso, Houston, San Antonio, and Juarez. They don't mention groups outside the state which leads me to believe that the numbers in places like Denver or ABQ are smaller/unorganized.

The total number of undergraduate Texans at UTEP is 20,119 with 19,378 coming from El Paso County. The rest of Texas accounts for 741 students. The "370" number comes from only those 5 counties.

It may not matter, but the truth is those 4K UTEP fans that showed up at Apogee helped North Texas far more than UTEP. UTEP (and El Paso) would have been better off if half that number had road tripped for a game in El Paso. That might happen more if the Miners are not playing regularly in Houston, Dallas, and San Antonio. I don't have time to look, but it would be interesting to see if their football attendance has increased or dropped since joining CUSA.

EDIT--I could only find limited numbers on the NCAA site from that long ago--but the numbers were much higher a couple of years after joining CUSA than the year prior to joining CUSA. Of course, most of those teams they played are no longer in CUSA---that said, the numbers were over 10K higher--so its a very significant difference. That might have to do with UTEP having a better team in those years---hard to tell. It would tend to indicate there may be something to having more Texas teams on the schedule. Of course, the strange thing is, in the last year in the MW, they played some Texas teams.....so idk....

(03-10-2014 02:27 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(03-10-2014 01:58 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  

(03-09-2014 07:13 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-08-2014 11:14 PM)billings Wrote:  

(03-08-2014 02:08 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  After being in a Western-based league since pretty-much forever, UTEP made the decision to move to a league with 4 other TX-based members in April 2004. Everything I have heard or read from UTEP fans and leaders over the past decade since then has bolstered the idea that UTEP is glad they made the switch and has little-to-no interest in going back.

I think any school is always open to new opportunities. Especially when a school that is an extreme geographic outlier in their conference. But on balance, I think UTEP probably stays with C-USA for a long time.

UTEP is a BB school. MW BB is far better. They jump if they get the chance.

Paycheck is way better in MWC as well

It's also a university, though. Do they draw more students from Houston, Dallas, SAn ANtonio, or Denver, Albuquerque and California? And where do their donating alumni live, Dallas or Denver?

http://cierpdata.utep.edu/OnlineFactBook...egion.aspx

Their undergraduate enrollment this year is ~23000.
Based on their factbook data, 19,000 come from El Paso County.

The second highest Texas county is Dallas at 86. Followed by the rest of the list,
86 students from Dallas County
83 students from Harris County (Houston)
82 students came from Bexar County (San Antonio)
67 students from Tarrant (Fort Worth)
52 students from Travis (Austin)

By comparison they have more students coming in from
Mexico - 1481
New Mexico - 268
California - 163
Arizona - 60


I've always heard that UTEP stays in a Texas conference so they can play in front of alumni crowds throughout the state, but their footprint seems to be localized out west. There are 23 Division I programs (including 12 FBS teams) in Texas, they could join the MWC and play an OOC game in the eastern half of the state every year.

So what you are saying is after counting the 19,000 from El Paso, this is the breakdown by state:

the rest of Texas - 370
New Mexico - 268
California - 163
Arizona - 60

Also, you didn't provide the breakdown for where their alumni live. I work with two UTEP graduates in Fort Worth. When we played them this past football season, they brought around 3,000 to 4,000 fans to Apogee. They have much larger alumni populations in Dallas, Houston, and San Antonio, then you are giving them credit for.

And in my gay softball league of 300 players in Phoenix, I know of at least 5 UTEP alums. Just from talking to them, and others I know from El Paso, a large number of Alums do move to Phoenix, ABQ, Denver and Southern California (plus of course many in Dallas, SA and Houston)