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EagleX Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Time is running out to sign up.
(03-02-2014 07:18 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 07:14 PM)EagleX Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 07:13 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 07:05 PM)EagleX Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 06:50 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  Some of us believe in the concept of the social compact. It isn't always about financial self interest. 07-coffee3

Ironic. The social compact is precisely what was destroyed by this massive government power grab. Precisely what was destroyed.

what you meant to say is that you believe in social justice.

With all due respect, please don't tell me what I "meant to say". I meant to say exactly what I typed.

Ah, ok. In the future, I will just call you a retard when you say something stupid.

I'd rather you didn't. I like to keep things civil when we disagree. Don't you?

You're a retard.

Well, that didn't take long. 03-2thumbsup
(This post was last modified: 03-02-2014 07:24 PM by EagleX.)
03-02-2014 07:21 PM
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mptnstr@44 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Time is running out to sign up.
(03-02-2014 07:17 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 07:10 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 06:50 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 05:30 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 04:53 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  My Obamacare insurance is 300 bucks a month cheaper and the coverage is better than my previous insurance.

Translation....I am a failure. Don't make much money. Get subsidies. I am a great liberal because I profit off of the hard work of those that are successful in life.

Some of us believe in the concept of the social compact. It isn't always about financial self interest. 07-coffee3

Some of you believe in taking from the labor of others to benefit yourselves.

That is the opposite of the social compact. All of us have an obligation to help society as a whole.

Who says we have an obligation to help society?
Is it in the Constitution? The Declaration of Independence? Bill of Rights?

An obligation to help society is a religious belief.
This is a secular country, right? It wasn't founded on Christianity or at least that is what the left says as Christian beliefs are vilified by the left.

My own personal religious belief is that I have a responsibility to help my fellow man through acts of charity initiated by me not coerced by my government taking the fruits of my labor out of my pocket.

But I have no right to force my beliefs on others as you seem to think you can.
03-02-2014 07:34 PM
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dawgitall Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Time is running out to sign up.
(03-02-2014 07:21 PM)EagleX Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 07:18 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 07:14 PM)EagleX Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 07:13 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 07:05 PM)EagleX Wrote:  Ironic. The social compact is precisely what was destroyed by this massive government power grab. Precisely what was destroyed.

what you meant to say is that you believe in social justice.

With all due respect, please don't tell me what I "meant to say". I meant to say exactly what I typed.

Ah, ok. In the future, I will just call you a retard when you say something stupid.

I'd rather you didn't. I like to keep things civil when we disagree. Don't you?

You're a retard.

Well, that didn't take long. 03-2thumbsup

If it makes you feel better then just get it out of your system.
03-02-2014 07:36 PM
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Smaug Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Time is running out to sign up.
I think I'll just keep exercising and eating my vegetables, play my recently jacked up employer premiums, and hope for the best.
03-02-2014 07:48 PM
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dawgitall Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Time is running out to sign up.
(03-02-2014 07:34 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 07:17 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 07:10 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 06:50 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 05:30 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  Translation....I am a failure. Don't make much money. Get subsidies. I am a great liberal because I profit off of the hard work of those that are successful in life.

Some of us believe in the concept of the social compact. It isn't always about financial self interest. 07-coffee3

Some of you believe in taking from the labor of others to benefit yourselves.

That is the opposite of the social compact. All of us have an obligation to help society as a whole.

Who says we have an obligation to help society?
Is it in the Constitution? The Declaration of Independence? Bill of Rights?

An obligation to help society is a religious belief.
This is a secular country, right? It wasn't founded on Christianity or at least that is what the left says as Christian beliefs are vilified by the left.

My own personal religious belief is that I have a responsibility to help my fellow man through acts of charity initiated by me not coerced by my government taking the fruits of my labor out of my pocket.

But I have no right to force my beliefs on others as you seem to think you can.

The Declaration of Independence and the United States Constitution are based in large part on the ideas of enlightenment period philosophers like John Locke. That is where the "Social Compact" or "Social Contract" concept comes from. So yes it is in those two cornerstone documents. Religious beliefs run parallel to the concept but it isn't the basis for it's inclusion in a Republic.

No one if forcing beliefs on anyone else. It is an undeniable fact that it is a basic element in our nation's foundation. We can disagree in the interpretation of our obligations under the social compact.
03-02-2014 08:04 PM
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dawgitall Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Time is running out to sign up.
(03-02-2014 07:48 PM)Smaug Wrote:  I think I'll just keep exercising and eating my vegetables, play my recently jacked up employer premiums, and hope for the best.

That sounds like a good start!04-cheers
03-02-2014 08:06 PM
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EagleRockCafe Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Time is running out to sign up.
(03-02-2014 07:05 PM)EagleX Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 06:50 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 05:30 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 04:53 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  My Obamacare insurance is 300 bucks a month cheaper and the coverage is better than my previous insurance.

Translation....I am a failure. Don't make much money. Get subsidies. I am a great liberal because I profit off of the hard work of those that are successful in life.

Some of us believe in the concept of the social compact. It isn't always about financial self interest. 07-coffee3

Ironic. The social compact is precisely what was destroyed by this massive government power grab. Precisely what was destroyed.

what you meant to say is that you believe in social justice.

Social compact= Live off of the hard work of others. No thank you.
03-02-2014 08:11 PM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Time is running out to sign up.
(03-02-2014 05:15 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 04:58 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 04:53 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  My Obamacare insurance is 300 bucks a month cheaper and the coverage is better than my previous insurance.

Is the actual premium cheaper for the same or better coverage? Or are you:

a) enjoying the Obamacare subsidy so someone else is really paying that $300 for you?

b) getting lesser coverage but are fine with it?

c) have a smaller provider net work but are fine with it?

d) all of the above?

Herd if you are in Charlotte NC the exchange plans for BCBS are varied with extensive coverage and a very large provider network. The prices even without a subsidy are good. You can just purchase the same policies from a private insurance agent if you don't get a subsidy. Your rates in Charlotte are better than mine in rural NC because you have more competition.

Yeah..... The non exchange policies are very affordable. My NCBCBS policy is a great deal. I only pay $6300 this year. 07-coffee3

My monthly outlay only increased this year 100%. I feel like I stole something. 02-13-banana
03-02-2014 08:14 PM
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GoodOwl Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Time is running out to sign up.
(03-02-2014 07:34 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  My own personal religious belief is that I have a responsibility to help my fellow man through acts of charity initiated by me not coerced by my government taking the fruits of my labor out of my pocket.

But I have no right to force my beliefs on others as you seem to think you can.


I agree, although I would add the caveat, that one need not be religious (one could be atheistic) and still hold the same beliefs. Religion is not a necessary predecessor for these beliefs, but in some cases it may be of help.

The way to help others is NOT through forced and coerced "services" and government "programs" but through individual decisions of charity and/or interaction. Groups or "societies" which are the forerunners of today's non-profit organization, have existed from the very founding of our country to solve social ills and deal with the problems that need to be addressed. I am certainly not against helping my fellow man, nor in being helped if needed, but I assert the right to make that determination. It is the coercive involuntary redistribution that is tyrannical.
(This post was last modified: 03-02-2014 08:27 PM by GoodOwl.)
03-02-2014 08:27 PM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Time is running out to sign up.
(03-02-2014 06:39 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 04:58 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 04:53 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  My Obamacare insurance is 300 bucks a month cheaper and the coverage is better than my previous insurance.

Is the actual premium cheaper for the same or better coverage? Or are you:

a) enjoying the Obamacare subsidy so someone else is really paying that $300 for you?

b) getting lesser coverage but are fine with it?

c) have a smaller provider net work but are fine with it?

d) all of the above?


I don't qualify for a subsidy.

My existing insurance was through the Texas High Risk Pool. It was 730 bucks a MONTH for me alone.

The Gold BCBS PPO plan is 300 bucks a month cheaper, has a lower deductible and yearly maximum and has better prescription coverage.

I have type 1 Diabetes. Anyone born with a pre-existing condition is MUCH better off under Obamacare.

I can attest to this claim to a degree. We saw a $100 drop in our daughter's BCBS policy when we dropped the Grandfathered policy. Like Tom...She has been a type 1 diabetic since age 2. She is 23 now.

Don't suppose though...That I support the ACA. I don't. I know damn well when the bills come rolling in....We will not be able to pay them. It is only a matter of time. Just what what happens when people realize that not only are they subsidizing peoples premiums...but...the insurance companies also though "reinurance". They are only responsible for losses up to a certain threshhold.
(This post was last modified: 03-02-2014 08:29 PM by Fo Shizzle.)
03-02-2014 08:28 PM
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GoodOwl Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Time is running out to sign up.
(03-02-2014 04:53 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  My Obamacare insurance is 300 bucks a month cheaper and the coverage is better than my previous insurance.

Good for you. For the apparent vast majority your experience is by far the rare exception, and that is the point.

Of course there will probably be some instances where the ACA might appear to be a "good deal." The law of large numbers suggests this would most likely be so in some cases.

However, if your experience were indeed typical, or as you would seem to assert, the norm, then why have there been so very few to be able to demonstrate that this is so, despite the rabid support of a sympathetic media, and why have there been so overwhelmingly many examples and reports of the opposite (the devastation the law causes) despite the opposition and indifference of the media to report so?
03-02-2014 08:34 PM
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Paul M Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Time is running out to sign up.
(03-02-2014 06:39 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 04:58 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 04:53 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  My Obamacare insurance is 300 bucks a month cheaper and the coverage is better than my previous insurance.

Is the actual premium cheaper for the same or better coverage? Or are you:

a) enjoying the Obamacare subsidy so someone else is really paying that $300 for you?

b) getting lesser coverage but are fine with it?

c) have a smaller provider net work but are fine with it?

d) all of the above?


I don't qualify for a subsidy.

My existing insurance was through the Texas High Risk Pool. It was 730 bucks a MONTH for me alone.

The Gold BCBS PPO plan is 300 bucks a month cheaper, has a lower deductible and yearly maximum and has better prescription coverage.

I have type 1 Diabetes. Anyone born with a pre-existing condition is MUCH better off under Obamacare.

Dude, that would be a)
03-02-2014 08:35 PM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Time is running out to sign up.
(03-02-2014 05:25 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 05:15 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 04:58 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 04:53 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  My Obamacare insurance is 300 bucks a month cheaper and the coverage is better than my previous insurance.

Is the actual premium cheaper for the same or better coverage? Or are you:

a) enjoying the Obamacare subsidy so someone else is really paying that $300 for you?

b) getting lesser coverage but are fine with it?

c) have a smaller provider net work but are fine with it?

d) all of the above?

Herd if you are in Charlotte NC the exchange plans for BCBS are varied with extensive coverage and a very large provider network. The prices even without a subsidy are good. You can just purchase the same policies from a private insurance agent if you don't get a subsidy. Your rates in Charlotte are better than mine in rural NC because you have more competition.

Actually because I was an independent consultant for about a year I had BCBS and an individual policy holder. Prices after Obamacare are about 5% higher than I paid before. So really that is no difference. I have insurance through my employer now, but I thought only two companies were offering individual policies BCBS statewide and a smaller company for select markets in NC.

BCBS competition is ZERO east of I-95 and there is only one competitor west of I-95 for welfare insurance policies. There are independent polices that can be bought for those that do not qualify for the welfare handout. The are though MUCH more expensive than BCBS. I checked aetna and another company...they were 200+ more per month.

I guess the claim made by proponents of the ACA that it would spur competition are either flat out lies or grossly exaggerated myths.
03-02-2014 08:37 PM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Time is running out to sign up.
(03-02-2014 08:34 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 04:53 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  My Obamacare insurance is 300 bucks a month cheaper and the coverage is better than my previous insurance.

Good for you. For the apparent vast majority your experience is by far the rare exception, and that is the point.

Of course there will probably be some instances where the ACA might appear to be a "good deal." The law of large numbers suggests this would most likely be so in some cases.

However, if your experience were indeed typical, or as you would seem to assert, the norm, then why have there been so very few to be able to demonstrate that this is so, despite the rabid support of a sympathetic media, and why have there been so overwhelmingly many examples and reports of the opposite (the devastation the law causes) despite the opposition and indifference of the media to report so?

Unsubsidized UnGrandfathered policies for younger people with preexisting conditions are lower. Not so mush for middle aged or up. The new polices are much higher cost than the Grandfathered ones. Only a young person would dump one of these Grandfathered policy.
03-02-2014 08:44 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Time is running out to sign up.
(03-02-2014 08:11 PM)EagleRockCafe Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 07:05 PM)EagleX Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 06:50 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 05:30 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 04:53 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  My Obamacare insurance is 300 bucks a month cheaper and the coverage is better than my previous insurance.

Translation....I am a failure. Don't make much money. Get subsidies. I am a great liberal because I profit off of the hard work of those that are successful in life.

Some of us believe in the concept of the social compact. It isn't always about financial self interest. 07-coffee3

Ironic. The social compact is precisely what was destroyed by this massive government power grab. Precisely what was destroyed.

what you meant to say is that you believe in social justice.

Social compact= Live off of the hard work of others. No thank you.

Hey guys

if you're paying 430 bucks a MONTH for health care, you aren't getting a subsidy.

My health care was 730 under the Texas High Risk Pool per month. It is 430 under Obamacare. No subsidies.
03-02-2014 08:55 PM
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dawgitall Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Time is running out to sign up.
(03-02-2014 08:37 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 05:25 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 05:15 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 04:58 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 04:53 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  My Obamacare insurance is 300 bucks a month cheaper and the coverage is better than my previous insurance.

Is the actual premium cheaper for the same or better coverage? Or are you:

a) enjoying the Obamacare subsidy so someone else is really paying that $300 for you?

b) getting lesser coverage but are fine with it?

c) have a smaller provider net work but are fine with it?

d) all of the above?

Herd if you are in Charlotte NC the exchange plans for BCBS are varied with extensive coverage and a very large provider network. The prices even without a subsidy are good. You can just purchase the same policies from a private insurance agent if you don't get a subsidy. Your rates in Charlotte are better than mine in rural NC because you have more competition.

Actually because I was an independent consultant for about a year I had BCBS and an individual policy holder. Prices after Obamacare are about 5% higher than I paid before. So really that is no difference. I have insurance through my employer now, but I thought only two companies were offering individual policies BCBS statewide and a smaller company for select markets in NC.

BCBS competition is ZERO east of I-95 and there is only one competitor west of I-95 for welfare insurance policies. There are independent polices that can be bought for those that do not qualify for the welfare handout. The are though MUCH more expensive than BCBS. I checked aetna and another company...they were 200+ more per month.

I guess the claim made by proponents of the ACA that it would spur competition are either flat out lies or grossly exaggerated myths.

But that isn't a result of the ACA. BCBS has dominated the market in NC for years.
03-02-2014 09:08 PM
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dawgitall Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Time is running out to sign up.
(03-02-2014 08:35 PM)Paul M Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 06:39 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 04:58 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 04:53 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  My Obamacare insurance is 300 bucks a month cheaper and the coverage is better than my previous insurance.

Is the actual premium cheaper for the same or better coverage? Or are you:

a) enjoying the Obamacare subsidy so someone else is really paying that $300 for you?

b) getting lesser coverage but are fine with it?

c) have a smaller provider net work but are fine with it?

d) all of the above?


I don't qualify for a subsidy.

My existing insurance was through the Texas High Risk Pool. It was 730 bucks a MONTH for me alone.

The Gold BCBS PPO plan is 300 bucks a month cheaper, has a lower deductible and yearly maximum and has better prescription coverage.

I have type 1 Diabetes. Anyone born with a pre-existing condition is MUCH better off under Obamacare.

Dude, that would be a)

He isn't getting a subsidy. He has said it several times.
03-02-2014 09:10 PM
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DefCONNOne Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Time is running out to sign up.
(03-02-2014 09:10 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 08:35 PM)Paul M Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 06:39 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 04:58 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 04:53 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  My Obamacare insurance is 300 bucks a month cheaper and the coverage is better than my previous insurance.

Is the actual premium cheaper for the same or better coverage? Or are you:

a) enjoying the Obamacare subsidy so someone else is really paying that $300 for you?

b) getting lesser coverage but are fine with it?

c) have a smaller provider net work but are fine with it?

d) all of the above?


I don't qualify for a subsidy.

My existing insurance was through the Texas High Risk Pool. It was 730 bucks a MONTH for me alone.

The Gold BCBS PPO plan is 300 bucks a month cheaper, has a lower deductible and yearly maximum and has better prescription coverage.

I have type 1 Diabetes. Anyone born with a pre-existing condition is MUCH better off under Obamacare.

Dude, that would be a)

He isn't getting a subsidy. He has said it several times.

No one believes him, except you.
03-02-2014 09:16 PM
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dawgitall Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Time is running out to sign up.
(03-02-2014 08:34 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 04:53 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  My Obamacare insurance is 300 bucks a month cheaper and the coverage is better than my previous insurance.

Good for you. For the apparent vast majority your experience is by far the rare exception, and that is the point.

Of course there will probably be some instances where the ACA might appear to be a "good deal." The law of large numbers suggests this would most likely be so in some cases.

However, if your experience were indeed typical, or as you would seem to assert, the norm, then why have there been so very few to be able to demonstrate that this is so, despite the rabid support of a sympathetic media, and why have there been so overwhelmingly many examples and reports of the opposite (the devastation the law causes) despite the opposition and indifference of the media to report so?

There are plenty of examples out there. A typical 20 something year old female in NC with an average BCBS policy saw their premiums go down about $80 a month. That is according to BCBS North Carolina and they are no fans of the ACA.

The media is anything but sympathetic and they are also rather lazy (or at least underfunded) in their efforts to investigate. They like a good story and for months that has been the problems with exchanges. They love to sensationalize and someone that claims great hardship as a result of the ACA is right up their ally. Close examination by more diligent investigative reporters show that the vast majority of these "horror stories" are not at all what they appear. We have covered many examples on threads here. Stories like Tom's are boring so they don't get circulated like wildfire.
03-02-2014 09:23 PM
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Paul M Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Time is running out to sign up.
(03-02-2014 09:10 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 08:35 PM)Paul M Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 06:39 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 04:58 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 04:53 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  My Obamacare insurance is 300 bucks a month cheaper and the coverage is better than my previous insurance.

Is the actual premium cheaper for the same or better coverage? Or are you:

a) enjoying the Obamacare subsidy so someone else is really paying that $300 for you?

b) getting lesser coverage but are fine with it?

c) have a smaller provider net work but are fine with it?

d) all of the above?


I don't qualify for a subsidy.

My existing insurance was through the Texas High Risk Pool. It was 730 bucks a MONTH for me alone.

The Gold BCBS PPO plan is 300 bucks a month cheaper, has a lower deductible and yearly maximum and has better prescription coverage.

I have type 1 Diabetes. Anyone born with a pre-existing condition is MUCH better off under Obamacare.

Dude, that would be a)

He isn't getting a subsidy. He has said it several times.

He is. His policy was high because of his condition. Under the law, the insurance companies can't bill him directly for his pre-existing illness so guess who they do bill? Other people. That's a subsidy, by another name if you like.
03-02-2014 09:43 PM
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