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texcane1982 Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Realignment Timeline
(11-19-2014 04:38 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(08-09-2014 05:18 PM)Jayesseagle Wrote:  This should have been the 1st Superconference . The Metro almost had this: (it was very close to happening)

North Division
Boston College
Cincinnati
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
Syracuse
Temple
Virginia Tech
West Virginia


South Division
East Carolina
Florida State
Louisville
Memphis State
Miami
South Carolina
Southern Miss
Tulane



SMTTT

instead metro north became the big east's first football conference in 1991 with Cincinnati being replaced with Miami. At the time I thought ECU would go to big east and Miami would join the ACC with Florida st as the 9th and 10th members respectively. Another note: Incredibly, the BE denied Penn St's efforts to join!! Worst decision in history of college football realignment, other than USF getting BE invite a decade later. BE never understood football...(sigh)

I would like to clear the air on the above bolded comments.

The inclusion of Penn State to the Big East was about keeping the basketball conference together and serving the football agenda of Syracuse and Boston College, not football realignment. The Penn State vote occured in 1981, the motion was denied by a count of 5-3, only needing 6 votes for approval. The agenda behind inviting Penn State to the Big East was because Joe Paterno was actively pursuing the creation of a Norteast based football conference, and such a creation could have serious implications for the future of Big East basketball. Both Syracuse and Boston College would have been part of Joe Pa's conference plans. (it was uncertain if Joe's conference would have been for all-sports) In an effort to save the fledgling Big East, Dave Gavitt and Mike Trangehese went on the offensive and and proposed to the President's and AD's the idea of Penn State, not with the plan of creating a football conference, but rather squashing Joe Pa's plans. Penn State, Boston College, and Syracuse would have remained football Independents, but would have locked into a scheduling alliance. The President's and AD's believed Penn State offered nothing in basketball, nor did they like the the fact Penn State was not located in a major media market. The whole Penn State to the Big East issue happened 10 years before the start of football realignment

Upon denying Penn State, Gavitt went back to the members and sold them on Pittsburgh, a football playing school who happened to add value in basketball and is located in large Tv market.

This issue is well document in the ESPN 30 for 30: Requiem for The Big East

http://espn.go.com/30for30/film?page=req...thebigeast



TX
(This post was last modified: 01-19-2015 03:33 AM by texcane1982.)
01-19-2015 01:38 AM
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texcane1982 Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Realignment Timeline
Dave Gavitt was ahead of his time when it came to marketing college basketball to the Tv networks, the Big East was the first conference to land lucrative Tv deals. Considering how brillant Gavitt was, it is amazing he did not understand the future Tv value of college football, especially following the Supreme Court decision that granted schools the right to negotiate their own Tv rights in 1984. IMO, if Gavitt or Tranghese had understood the importance of football this prior to 1990, they could have created an associated Big East Football Conference. A conference that could have give all of the Eastern most major independents (Penn State, Syracuse, Boston College, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, West Virginia, Virginia Tech, South Carolina, Florida State, Louisville, East Carolina, and Miami) a football home. This affiliation would have trumped the ACC in football (circa 1990), and likely would have survived longterm, at least until the turn of the century. The SEC expansion of 1990 would have been Arkansas and Texas A&M with South Carolina off the table, thus ending the SWC in the 1980's. A Big East football conference would have cashed in on the first major Tv deals due to their foot hold in the northeast, florida, and affiliation with Big East basketball who by 1986 landed the first lucartive Tv deals with Espn and CBS. All of the eastern independents played each other on a regular basis, so the creation of a football conference would have made since. With the creation of an affiliated Big East football conference, Big East basketball would have kept Syracuse, Boston College, and Pittsburgh, and not required ridiculous expansion in order to save the league. Big East basketball would have at worst survived the first round expansion, remaining as it was originally created to be, a power conference in college basketball.

The creation of a Big East football conference would have killed the Metro Conference. The Metro would have stood no chance of beating the Big East to the punch, due to the Metro not having a front man such as Dave Gavitt who's relationship with Tv executives gave him a decisive advantage.

The Big East football conference members (Penn State, West Virginia, Rutgers, South Carolina, Florida State, Miami, Louisville, and East Carolina) would have created their own basketball/olympic sport conference, possibly adding eastern/southeastern basketball rich schools such as Temple, UAB, and/ or Xavier to complete their lineup.

The Great Midwest Conference would have probably still occured if the Metro Conference would have folded due to a 1980's Big East football conference. Metro Conference casualties Cincinnati and Memphis, would have been looking for a home, and Indy's Marquette and DePaul were ready to join a conference even before the Great Midwest was ever created. If the Metro would have ended before the eventual merger with the Great Midwest (creation of C-USA), Tulane and Southern Miss may have also been included in the Great Midwest or found a temporary home in the Sun Belt. Once the SEC would have raided the SWC for Arkansass and Texas A&M, the SWC would have folded and Houston, SMU, TCU, and Rice would have joined football independents Cincinnati, Memphis, Tulane, Southern Miss, Tulsa to create a fast-forwarded C-USA to version 2.0.

The landscape of post 1980's college football would look a lot different if the Big East would have created an affiliated football conference during the 1980's The basketball-football affiliation would have created much needed basketball scheduling alliances between the basketball only and football only schools.
01-19-2015 03:26 AM
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firmbizzle Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Realignment Timeline
ECU & Tulane were the death of the true American conference. I think ECU should have been invited but the western division should have been secured before inviting more eastern schools.
01-19-2015 03:40 PM
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greenwolfe Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Realignment Timeline
(02-28-2014 07:20 PM)westwolf Wrote:  A very nice recap of the third and final wave of expansion/realignment. I consider the first to have been 1992-1994, encompassing the moves of:
Arkansas & S. Carolina to the SEC
Penn State to the Big 10
Baylor, Texas, A&M and Tech to the Big 12

The second included the 2004-2005 moves of:
Miami, Va Tech and BC to the ACC
The resulting additions of Connecticut, Louisville, USF to the Big East
Temple too ? (in and out)

The P5 is now set for years to come.
The Little 2 (AAC, MWC) await only Navy in 2015
The Worst 3 (CUSA, MAC, SB) will likely have changes as wannabes move up from FCS, but for most CFB fans it's settled.

I can't speak for the Sun Belt or the MAC, but CUSA is in pretty good shape. They are better than the Mountain West and the AAC, though most people don't recognize that yet, and they are in good shape to have success under the current bowl situation.
01-22-2015 05:48 PM
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firmbizzle Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Realignment Timeline
(01-19-2015 01:38 AM)texcane1982 Wrote:  
(11-19-2014 04:38 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(08-09-2014 05:18 PM)Jayesseagle Wrote:  This should have been the 1st Superconference . The Metro almost had this: (it was very close to happening)

North Division
Boston College
Cincinnati
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
Syracuse
Temple
Virginia Tech
West Virginia


South Division
East Carolina
Florida State
Louisville
Memphis State
Miami
South Carolina
Southern Miss
Tulane



SMTTT

instead metro north became the big east's first football conference in 1991 with Cincinnati being replaced with Miami. At the time I thought ECU would go to big east and Miami would join the ACC with Florida st as the 9th and 10th members respectively. Another note: Incredibly, the BE denied Penn St's efforts to join!! Worst decision in history of college football realignment, other than USF getting BE invite a decade later. BE never understood football...(sigh)

I would like to clear the air on the above bolded comments.

The inclusion of Penn State to the Big East was about keeping the basketball conference together and serving the football agenda of Syracuse and Boston College, not football realignment. The Penn State vote occured in 1981, the motion was denied by a count of 5-3, only needing 6 votes for approval. The agenda behind inviting Penn State to the Big East was because Joe Paterno was actively pursuing the creation of a Norteast based football conference, and such a creation could have serious implications for the future of Big East basketball. Both Syracuse and Boston College would have been part of Joe Pa's conference plans. (it was uncertain if Joe's conference would have been for all-sports) In an effort to save the fledgling Big East, Dave Gavitt and Mike Trangehese went on the offensive and and proposed to the President's and AD's the idea of Penn State, not with the plan of creating a football conference, but rather squashing Joe Pa's plans. Penn State, Boston College, and Syracuse would have remained football Independents, but would have locked into a scheduling alliance. The President's and AD's believed Penn State offered nothing in basketball, nor did they like the the fact Penn State was not located in a major media market. The whole Penn State to the Big East issue happened 10 years before the start of football realignment

Upon denying Penn State, Gavitt went back to the members and sold them on Pittsburgh, a football playing school who happened to add value in basketball and is located in large Tv market.

This issue is well document in the ESPN 30 for 30: Requiem for The Big East

http://espn.go.com/30for30/film?page=req...thebigeast



TX

I still feel like Penn St should be in an eastern conference, ACC.
01-27-2015 07:54 AM
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jdgaucho Online
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Post: #56
RE: Realignment Timeline
Hard to believe that in the beginning of the BCS era there were four western FBS conferences.
01-31-2015 02:12 AM
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texcane1982 Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Realignment Timeline
(01-27-2015 07:54 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  
(01-19-2015 01:38 AM)texcane1982 Wrote:  
(11-19-2014 04:38 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(08-09-2014 05:18 PM)Jayesseagle Wrote:  This should have been the 1st Superconference . The Metro almost had this: (it was very close to happening)

North Division
Boston College
Cincinnati
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
Syracuse
Temple
Virginia Tech
West Virginia


South Division
East Carolina
Florida State
Louisville
Memphis State
Miami
South Carolina
Southern Miss
Tulane



SMTTT

instead metro north became the big east's first football conference in 1991 with Cincinnati being replaced with Miami. At the time I thought ECU would go to big east and Miami would join the ACC with Florida st as the 9th and 10th members respectively. Another note: Incredibly, the BE denied Penn St's efforts to join!! Worst decision in history of college football realignment, other than USF getting BE invite a decade later. BE never understood football...(sigh)

I would like to clear the air on the above bolded comments.

The inclusion of Penn State to the Big East was about keeping the basketball conference together and serving the football agenda of Syracuse and Boston College, not football realignment. The Penn State vote occured in 1981, the motion was denied by a count of 5-3, only needing 6 votes for approval. The agenda behind inviting Penn State to the Big East was because Joe Paterno was actively pursuing the creation of a Norteast based football conference, and such a creation could have serious implications for the future of Big East basketball. Both Syracuse and Boston College would have been part of Joe Pa's conference plans. (it was uncertain if Joe's conference would have been for all-sports) In an effort to save the fledgling Big East, Dave Gavitt and Mike Trangehese went on the offensive and and proposed to the President's and AD's the idea of Penn State, not with the plan of creating a football conference, but rather squashing Joe Pa's plans. Penn State, Boston College, and Syracuse would have remained football Independents, but would have locked into a scheduling alliance. The President's and AD's believed Penn State offered nothing in basketball, nor did they like the the fact Penn State was not located in a major media market. The whole Penn State to the Big East issue happened 10 years before the start of football realignment

Upon denying Penn State, Gavitt went back to the members and sold them on Pittsburgh, a football playing school who happened to add value in basketball and is located in large Tv market.

This issue is well document in the ESPN 30 for 30: Requiem for The Big East

http://espn.go.com/30for30/film?page=req...thebigeast



TX

I still feel like Penn St should be in an eastern conference, ACC.

I kind of feel like Penn State would have never fit into the southern culture of the ACC.

I think Penn State fits in well with the Big Ten, but in reality they probably would have been a fit in a more northeastern / mid-atlantic affiliation, with continued rgional rivalries.

I guess this goes back to watching these schools play as Independents, but IMO the below core of schools fit well together and would have been successful as a football only affiliation:

Boston College
Penn State
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
Syracuse
Temple
Virginia Tech
West Virgnia


TX
(This post was last modified: 02-03-2015 10:06 PM by texcane1982.)
02-03-2015 10:04 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Realignment Timeline
(01-22-2015 05:48 PM)greenwolfe Wrote:  
(02-28-2014 07:20 PM)westwolf Wrote:  A very nice recap of the third and final wave of expansion/realignment. I consider the first to have been 1992-1994, encompassing the moves of:
Arkansas & S. Carolina to the SEC
Penn State to the Big 10
Baylor, Texas, A&M and Tech to the Big 12

The second included the 2004-2005 moves of:
Miami, Va Tech and BC to the ACC
The resulting additions of Connecticut, Louisville, USF to the Big East
Temple too ? (in and out)

The P5 is now set for years to come.
The Little 2 (AAC, MWC) await only Navy in 2015
The Worst 3 (CUSA, MAC, SB) will likely have changes as wannabes move up from FCS, but for most CFB fans it's settled.

I can't speak for the Sun Belt or the MAC, but CUSA is in pretty good shape. They are better than the Mountain West and the AAC, though most people don't recognize that yet, and they are in good shape to have success under the current bowl situation.

This is your first post huh? I'll give you credit for making a hilarious troll post:)
02-05-2015 03:48 PM
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greenwolfe Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Realignment Timeline
All I did was state a fact.
02-07-2015 01:57 PM
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chess Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Realignment Timeline
(02-03-2015 10:04 PM)texcane1982 Wrote:  
(01-27-2015 07:54 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  
(01-19-2015 01:38 AM)texcane1982 Wrote:  
(11-19-2014 04:38 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(08-09-2014 05:18 PM)Jayesseagle Wrote:  This should have been the 1st Superconference . The Metro almost had this: (it was very close to happening)

North Division
Boston College
Cincinnati
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
Syracuse
Temple
Virginia Tech
West Virginia


South Division
East Carolina
Florida State
Louisville
Memphis State
Miami
South Carolina
Southern Miss
Tulane



SMTTT

instead metro north became the big east's first football conference in 1991 with Cincinnati being replaced with Miami. At the time I thought ECU would go to big east and Miami would join the ACC with Florida st as the 9th and 10th members respectively. Another note: Incredibly, the BE denied Penn St's efforts to join!! Worst decision in history of college football realignment, other than USF getting BE invite a decade later. BE never understood football...(sigh)

I would like to clear the air on the above bolded comments.

The inclusion of Penn State to the Big East was about keeping the basketball conference together and serving the football agenda of Syracuse and Boston College, not football realignment. The Penn State vote occured in 1981, the motion was denied by a count of 5-3, only needing 6 votes for approval. The agenda behind inviting Penn State to the Big East was because Joe Paterno was actively pursuing the creation of a Norteast based football conference, and such a creation could have serious implications for the future of Big East basketball. Both Syracuse and Boston College would have been part of Joe Pa's conference plans. (it was uncertain if Joe's conference would have been for all-sports) In an effort to save the fledgling Big East, Dave Gavitt and Mike Trangehese went on the offensive and and proposed to the President's and AD's the idea of Penn State, not with the plan of creating a football conference, but rather squashing Joe Pa's plans. Penn State, Boston College, and Syracuse would have remained football Independents, but would have locked into a scheduling alliance. The President's and AD's believed Penn State offered nothing in basketball, nor did they like the the fact Penn State was not located in a major media market. The whole Penn State to the Big East issue happened 10 years before the start of football realignment

Upon denying Penn State, Gavitt went back to the members and sold them on Pittsburgh, a football playing school who happened to add value in basketball and is located in large Tv market.

This issue is well document in the ESPN 30 for 30: Requiem for The Big East

http://espn.go.com/30for30/film?page=req...thebigeast



TX

I still feel like Penn St should be in an eastern conference, ACC.

I kind of feel like Penn State would have never fit into the southern culture of the ACC.

I think Penn State fits in well with the Big Ten, but in reality they probably would have been a fit in a more northeastern / mid-atlantic affiliation, with continued rgional rivalries.

I guess this goes back to watching these schools play as Independents, but IMO the below core of schools fit well together and would have been successful as a football only affiliation:

Boston College
Penn State
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
Syracuse
Temple
Virginia Tech
West Virgnia


TX

The conference wasn't complete-

Boston College
Syracuse
Rutgers
Temple
Penn State
Pittsburgh
West Virginia
Louisville
Virginia Tech
Miami

That, my friends, is a second ACC-type conference.

Cincinnati and East Carolina were independents, too. Connecticut, with the assumption they expanded football sooner, could have been part of the conference.
02-22-2015 01:16 PM
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