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ken d Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Realignment Timeline
What I find remarkable is that in 1978, when the decision was made to separate D-I into the FBS and FCS, there were only 145 schools playing D-I football. Now there are 252!

After the split, there were 95 teams in the FBS, and by 2016 there will be 129. It is easy to see the point of the HRG (P5) schools. There are way too many voices having a say in what happens at the top level of college football.
03-01-2014 02:57 PM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Realignment Timeline
(03-01-2014 02:57 PM)ken d Wrote:  What I find remarkable is that in 1978, when the decision was made to separate D-I into the FBS and FCS, there were only 145 schools playing D-I football. Now there are 252!

After the split, there were 95 teams in the FBS, and by 2016 there will be 129. It is easy to see the point of the HRG (P5) schools. There are way too many voices having a say in what happens at the top level of college football.

it is even worse in CBB

20 years ago it was in the 250s. today its 435 or something like that
03-01-2014 04:08 PM
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john01992 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Realignment Timeline
i hope we can all work together to take post #20 and make corrections

add in all the realignment hypothetical, rumors, (like the pac16) etc. that almost happened and make a master list
03-01-2014 04:17 PM
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Native Georgian Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Realignment Timeline
(03-01-2014 02:57 PM)ken d Wrote:  What I find remarkable is that in 1978, when the decision was made to separate D-I into the FBS and FCS, there were only 145 schools playing D-I football. Now there are 252!

After the split, there were 95 teams in the FBS, and by 2016 there will be 129. It is easy to see the point of the HRG (P5) schools. There are way too many voices having a say in what happens at the top level of college football.
The P5 wants to chop the upper-level down to 65. That is way, way less than 95.

Another crucial difference is that in the old days, anybody could move up if they devoted the resources and money to their program. Now, the gates are closed, the bridges are blocked, and nobody can get in unless one of the Five Families gives you a special pass. In all the history of college sports, that is completely unprecedented.
03-01-2014 07:25 PM
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PirateTreasureNC Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Realignment Timeline
(03-01-2014 10:12 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(03-01-2014 09:39 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(02-28-2014 03:45 PM)bullet Wrote:  Now if someone could do the CUSA/SB/MAC additions the FBS timeline would be complete.
The creation of C-USA was announced by Commissioner Mike Slive at a press conference in Chicago on April 24, 1995.

The 11 charter members were:
Cincinnati
DePaul
Louisville
Marquette
Memphis
Saint Louis
South Florida
Southern Miss
Tulane
UAB
UNCC

The league went into business for Olympic sports starting with the 1995-96 season. Football had to wait until 1996, because only five of those 11 had I-A football programs:
Cincinnati
Louisville
Memphis
Southern Miss
Tulane

Everybody knew that Houston was joining the following year, although I just don't remember if that had been publicly announced or not. UAB was transitioning from I-AA to I-AA but did not become an official football member until 1998. South Florida had not yet begun its football program at any level, but immediately did so with the creation of C-USA. They started as a I-AA Independent in 1997 and eventually joined C-USA for football in 2003 -- just in time to switch to the Big East in 2005.

9/22/94 There was an agreement in principle to form a new all sports conference with Houston, Cincinnati, Louisville, Memphis, So. Miss and Tulane.

The various basketball schools were added later.

I don't see a mention of the Liberty Bowl Alliance which led to ECU being part of that and then a Football CUSA Member in 1997 I believe, after winning the Alliance in 1995 and 1996. I believe in 2000(or 2001?) we became a FULL CUSA Member. I believe TCU came in the year after we did as a full member but they ended up bolting within two years.
03-01-2014 11:54 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Realignment Timeline
(03-01-2014 07:25 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(03-01-2014 02:57 PM)ken d Wrote:  What I find remarkable is that in 1978, when the decision was made to separate D-I into the FBS and FCS, there were only 145 schools playing D-I football. Now there are 252!

After the split, there were 95 teams in the FBS, and by 2016 there will be 129. It is easy to see the point of the HRG (P5) schools. There are way too many voices having a say in what happens at the top level of college football.
The P5 wants to chop the upper-level down to 65. That is way, way less than 95.

Another crucial difference is that in the old days, anybody could move up if they devoted the resources and money to their program. Now, the gates are closed, the bridges are blocked, and nobody can get in unless one of the Five Families gives you a special pass. In all the history of college sports, that is completely unprecedented.


I don't believe the P5 want to limit the top division to 65. I think they would be perfectly happy with a number around 90. So would I.
03-02-2014 08:39 AM
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Native Georgian Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Realignment Timeline
(03-01-2014 10:12 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(03-01-2014 09:39 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  The creation of C-USA was announced by Commissioner Mike Slive at a press conference in Chicago on April 24, 1995…

Everybody knew that Houston was joining the following year, although I just don't remember if that had been publicly announced or not…

9/22/94 There was an agreement in principle to form a new all sports conference with Houston, Cincinnati, Louisville, Memphis, So. Miss and Tulane.

The various basketball schools were added later.
Thanks, bullet. I vaguely recall that agreement, too, but I can't remember how I knew about it. Do you have a link to that announcement/agreement/whatever-they-called-it-at-the-time?
03-02-2014 12:05 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Realignment Timeline
(03-02-2014 08:39 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(03-01-2014 07:25 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(03-01-2014 02:57 PM)ken d Wrote:  What I find remarkable is that in 1978, when the decision was made to separate D-I into the FBS and FCS, there were only 145 schools playing D-I football. Now there are 252!

After the split, there were 95 teams in the FBS, and by 2016 there will be 129. It is easy to see the point of the HRG (P5) schools. There are way too many voices having a say in what happens at the top level of college football.
The P5 wants to chop the upper-level down to 65. That is way, way less than 95.

Another crucial difference is that in the old days, anybody could move up if they devoted the resources and money to their program. Now, the gates are closed, the bridges are blocked, and nobody can get in unless one of the Five Families gives you a special pass. In all the history of college sports, that is completely unprecedented.


I don't believe the P5 want to limit the top division to 65. I think they would be perfectly happy with a number around 90. So would I.

Ken, in the end the final number of schools will not be decided by the P5 schools, their presidents, or their AD's. I agree that most of them might prefer more schools rather than less to a degree. Whether that number is 72 (one of the more obvious cutoffs for investment levels in athletics) or a number like 80 (which would be more artificial) more teams give athletic directors more home games for the power schools and likely more wins than a limited number like 65 of the larger schools would give them. More wins, of course, equals job security for these guys, including coaches. But that number does not deliver consistent weekly content match ups. There would still be too many blowout games for the networks to be happy. Because of that the final number will not be determined by the conferences. This number will be determined by the networks and will be based upon how many teams to which they desire to pay top dollar (their financial ceiling), and by how many they need to deliver the market demographics that they feel will optimize their advertising revenue. It is no more and no less than this.

Presently the only obstacle to finalizing product arrangement are the few academic and cultural biases that the conferences desire to use as delimiting factors. E.G.: The Big 10 requires AAU membership for entry, the PAC prefers it, the SEC wants a concentrated footprint more or less based upon Southeastern geographical boundaries, and the ACC wants a balance of sports interests.

So the deal here is how many teams make the cut? For 3 years the administrators and coaches have consistently told you the final number will be between 60 to 70 schools. I think that range is your answer and the number will depend upon the final placement of schools and the conference breakdowns that their movement will create. The P5 stand now at 65. If we remain at 65 and the Big 12 adds two to 4 schools (2 more somewhat likely/4 very unlikely) then we will end with 67. If the Big 12 is absorbed into the other 4 power conferences and some niche markets the networks still desire are on the outside looking in then some conferences could move to 18 as opposed to 16 (this actually breaks divisions down geographically and is more efficient for larger conferences) and the final number could then climb from 65 to the 66 - 72 range.

The best hope for UConn's inclusion will be if they are one of the desired market additions when things are finalized. I still think things could go either way. 65 might indeed be the final number and it is exactly halfway in between the 60 to 70 range. There could be be further consolidation as well. The number 60 wasn't randomly selected for that range. If the move were to be to 3 power conferences then 60 could well be the number. If it remains at 4 or 5 power conferences then 65 or more is more likely.
03-02-2014 12:57 PM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Realignment Timeline
(03-01-2014 04:08 PM)john01992 Wrote:  
(03-01-2014 02:57 PM)ken d Wrote:  What I find remarkable is that in 1978, when the decision was made to separate D-I into the FBS and FCS, there were only 145 schools playing D-I football. Now there are 252!

After the split, there were 95 teams in the FBS, and by 2016 there will be 129. It is easy to see the point of the HRG (P5) schools. There are way too many voices having a say in what happens at the top level of college football.
it is even worse in CBB

20 years ago it was in the 250s. today its 435 or something like that
And people wonder why the bigger schools want to break away. 03-banghead
03-02-2014 01:06 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Realignment Timeline
(03-02-2014 01:06 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(03-01-2014 04:08 PM)john01992 Wrote:  
(03-01-2014 02:57 PM)ken d Wrote:  What I find remarkable is that in 1978, when the decision was made to separate D-I into the FBS and FCS, there were only 145 schools playing D-I football. Now there are 252!

After the split, there were 95 teams in the FBS, and by 2016 there will be 129. It is easy to see the point of the HRG (P5) schools. There are way too many voices having a say in what happens at the top level of college football.

it is even worse in CBB

20 years ago it was in the 250s. today its 435 or something like that

And people wonder why the bigger schools want to break away. 03-banghead

D-I basketball is also "worse" because there are so many "low major" programs that are not even trying to compete at a level that would be competitive with good "mid-major" leagues, let alone the level of conference play in the best leagues. There are D-I leagues that never send an at-large team to the NCAAs, and are in D-I hoops only because they want the D-I label and the March Madness paychecks.
03-02-2014 01:43 PM
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