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GameDay: CMU
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emu steve Offline
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Post: #41
RE: GameDay: CMU
(02-27-2014 08:40 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  Hurley took over a loaded squad though, including the best player (IMO) in the MAC. The new MAC West coaches didn't exactly have that luxury.

I don't exactly like accepting a mediocre season, but considering we haven't even been .500 in well over a decade, I'll live with it. Especially if we make a nice little run in the tourney.

This is where the MAC (#17) and MAC West was April, 2011, totally awful. Murphy (302), Montgomery (208), etc. faced huge odds.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaab/sag...onference/

EMU, CMU, NIU and UT combined for 26 D-I wins which is ONE season's worth for a very good team...

And if my math is right, those four teams played 8 games versus each other and someone had to win (even though they may have not deserved to).

Our Sagarin was over 300. Now a little over 100.

Night and day, guys. It may NOT seem like it, but it is. (p.s. our OOC schedule was brutal and now our MAC West schedule is much, much tougher than in 2011, which was pretty bad).

This year's team might have been a MAC finalist in CLE if it had played in 2011).
(This post was last modified: 02-27-2014 10:00 AM by emu steve.)
02-27-2014 09:57 AM
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masttg Offline
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Post: #42
RE: GameDay: CMU
I see two different points getting discussed. First, that Murphy drove the program out of the ditch. Second, that this years squad has under-performed. Both of these points seem true. Fortunately, the second point can still be corrected.
02-27-2014 10:01 AM
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holybovine Offline
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Post: #43
RE: GameDay: CMU
(02-27-2014 10:01 AM)masttg Wrote:  I see two different points getting discussed. First, that Murphy drove the program out of the ditch. Second, that this years squad has under-performed. Both of these points seem true. Fortunately, the second point can still be corrected.

Yep. Murphy got us out of the ditch with his 2-3 and transfers. This year has been a tremendous disappointment in myriad ways. EMU will not likely ever be a top tier program under Murphy because of his offensive limitations. And he'll never have a more talented and deep squad than this year's group.
02-27-2014 10:32 AM
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emu79 Offline
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Post: #44
RE: GameDay: CMU
Raven Lee was benched for the rest of the game at the 19-minute mark after missing a layup and not being in tuned on defense. Murphy explained the reason for Lee’s benching.

“Ray came down on the first possession and gave up a three-point shot,“ Murphy said. “I take defense really seriously and felt if you can’t set the tone, then you shouldn’t be in the game.”
02-27-2014 11:26 AM
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Dennis D. Rachwal Offline
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Post: #45
RE: GameDay: CMU
(02-27-2014 11:26 AM)emu79 Wrote:  Raven Lee was benched for the rest of the game at the 19-minute mark after missing a layup and not being in tuned on defense. Murphy explained the reason for Lee’s benching.

“Ray came down on the first possession and gave up a three-point shot,“ Murphy said. “I take defense really seriously and felt if you can’t set the tone, then you shouldn’t be in the game.”

LEE HAS BEEN IN MURPHY'S DOGHOUSE MORE OFTEN THAN NOT, HE HAS TALENT BUT HAS NBEVER BEEN ACCUSED OF PLAYING SMART - WONDER WHERE HIS CAREER IS HEADED HERE AT EMU? OVERALL WITH ALL THE HYPE ETC. I WOULD HAVE TO SAY IT HAS BEEN DISSAPOINTING TO DATE. NOT SURE HE WILL EVER FILL HIS POTENTIAL HERE AT EMU.
02-27-2014 11:43 AM
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emu steve Offline
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Post: #46
RE: GameDay: CMU
(02-27-2014 11:43 AM)Dennis D. Rachwal Wrote:  
(02-27-2014 11:26 AM)emu79 Wrote:  Raven Lee was benched for the rest of the game at the 19-minute mark after missing a layup and not being in tuned on defense. Murphy explained the reason for Lee’s benching.

“Ray came down on the first possession and gave up a three-point shot,“ Murphy said. “I take defense really seriously and felt if you can’t set the tone, then you shouldn’t be in the game.”

LEE HAS BEEN IN MURPHY'S DOGHOUSE MORE OFTEN THAN NOT, HE HAS TALENT BUT HAS NBEVER BEEN ACCUSED OF PLAYING SMART - WONDER WHERE HIS CAREER IS HEADED HERE AT EMU? OVERALL WITH ALL THE HYPE ETC. I WOULD HAVE TO SAY IT HAS BEEN DISSAPOINTING TO DATE. NOT SURE HE WILL EVER FILL HIS POTENTIAL HERE AT EMU.

Yep, I'm not sure Lee really loves defense and maybe practicing.

His God-given talent is there, but he hasn't become the total, complete player in terms of offense, defense and practicing (if I'm right).
02-27-2014 11:50 AM
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emu79 Offline
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Post: #47
RE: GameDay: CMU
Ditto for some of the other players on this team according to Murphy.
02-27-2014 12:09 PM
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emu steve Offline
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Post: #48
RE: GameDay: CMU
(02-27-2014 10:32 AM)holybovine Wrote:  
(02-27-2014 10:01 AM)masttg Wrote:  I see two different points getting discussed. First, that Murphy drove the program out of the ditch. Second, that this years squad has under-performed. Both of these points seem true. Fortunately, the second point can still be corrected.

Yep. Murphy got us out of the ditch with his 2-3 and transfers. This year has been a tremendous disappointment in myriad ways. EMU will not likely ever be a top tier program under Murphy because of his offensive limitations. And he'll never have a more talented and deep squad than this year's group.

Wow. I disagree with you.

IF we had beaten say Ohio or Akron we would have had the record I expect that they would have today (i.e., 9 - 6). I believe I thought this team was a 11 - 7 team in conference and quite frankly Toledo, WMU, Buffalo, etc. are much better than I thought November 15.

We are one win (a bucket or two) from being 9 - 6 in a conference, esp. the MAC West, which is on a big upswing this season.

I hate that we have to play 4 games to get to the MAC finals, but I guarantee that NO ONE wants to face EMU in the tourney. We've taken some very, very good MAC teams (e.g., WMU, Toledo) to the woodshed.
02-27-2014 12:27 PM
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emu steve Offline
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Post: #49
RE: GameDay: CMU
This tells me that we are a very good team which failed to win a few close games. (some teams which aren't too good squeak out wins. We're the opposite).

SCORING MARGIN

G Offense Defense Margin

1. Buffalo 15 74.0 66.0 +8.0
2. Eastern Michigan 15 63.3 58.0 +5.3
3. Western Michigan 15 71.1 67.5 +3.5
4. Toledo 15 75.7 72.7 +2.9
5. Ohio 15 70.2 67.5 +2.7
6. Akron 15 66.6 64.8 +1.8
7. Bowling Green 15 61.7 62.7 -0.9
8. Northern Illinois 15 61.4 62.8 -1.4
9. Kent State 15 66.6 68.6 -2.0
10. Miami 15 65.3 67.6 -2.3
11. Central Michigan 15 69.9 77.7 -7.7
12. Ball State 15 65.1 75.0 -9.9
(This post was last modified: 02-27-2014 01:18 PM by emu steve.)
02-27-2014 01:16 PM
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emu79 Offline
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Post: #50
RE: GameDay: CMU
Ultimately the question needs to be asked is .500 acceptable each year re men's hoops for us alums, fans, students?
02-27-2014 01:37 PM
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masttg Offline
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Post: #51
RE: GameDay: CMU
(02-27-2014 01:16 PM)emu steve Wrote:  This tells me that we are a very good team which failed to win a few close games. (some teams which aren't too good squeak out wins. We're the opposite).

Doesn't this mean that the team has under-performed thus far?
02-27-2014 02:19 PM
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EagleSam Offline
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Post: #52
RE: GameDay: CMU
(02-27-2014 11:43 AM)Dennis D. Rachwal Wrote:  
(02-27-2014 11:26 AM)emu79 Wrote:  Raven Lee was benched for the rest of the game at the 19-minute mark after missing a layup and not being in tuned on defense. Murphy explained the reason for Lee’s benching.

“Ray came down on the first possession and gave up a three-point shot,“ Murphy said. “I take defense really seriously and felt if you can’t set the tone, then you shouldn’t be in the game.”

LEE HAS BEEN IN MURPHY'S DOGHOUSE MORE OFTEN THAN NOT, HE HAS TALENT BUT HAS NBEVER BEEN ACCUSED OF PLAYING SMART - WONDER WHERE HIS CAREER IS HEADED HERE AT EMU? OVERALL WITH ALL THE HYPE ETC. I WOULD HAVE TO SAY IT HAS BEEN DISSAPOINTING TO DATE. NOT SURE HE WILL EVER FILL HIS POTENTIAL HERE AT EMU.

He's a (redshirt) freshman. How can you be disappointed with his "career" when he hasn't even finished a full season? He's had some great moments and some horrendous moments, but let the kid get a year or two under his belt before we label him an underachiever.
02-27-2014 02:28 PM
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EagleSam Offline
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Post: #53
RE: GameDay: CMU
(02-27-2014 11:50 AM)emu steve Wrote:  
(02-27-2014 11:43 AM)Dennis D. Rachwal Wrote:  
(02-27-2014 11:26 AM)emu79 Wrote:  Raven Lee was benched for the rest of the game at the 19-minute mark after missing a layup and not being in tuned on defense. Murphy explained the reason for Lee’s benching.

“Ray came down on the first possession and gave up a three-point shot,“ Murphy said. “I take defense really seriously and felt if you can’t set the tone, then you shouldn’t be in the game.”

LEE HAS BEEN IN MURPHY'S DOGHOUSE MORE OFTEN THAN NOT, HE HAS TALENT BUT HAS NBEVER BEEN ACCUSED OF PLAYING SMART - WONDER WHERE HIS CAREER IS HEADED HERE AT EMU? OVERALL WITH ALL THE HYPE ETC. I WOULD HAVE TO SAY IT HAS BEEN DISSAPOINTING TO DATE. NOT SURE HE WILL EVER FILL HIS POTENTIAL HERE AT EMU.

Yep, I'm not sure Lee really loves defense and maybe practicing.

His God-given talent is there, but he hasn't become the total, complete player in terms of offense, defense and practicing (if I'm right).

If he's playing like this as a junior, then we know it's a problem, but what freshmen are ever complete players in the MAC? There aren't any Tyler Ennis's in this league.
02-27-2014 02:31 PM
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emu79 Offline
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Post: #54
RE: GameDay: CMU
I'm not labeling Lee an underachiever, but Murphy apparently has some issues with his players at various times its been Bryant, Combs and now Lee for "not being into it", etc. A while back I questioned whether this team had the "heart" because it certainly had the talent to win the MAC West and go further. I hope whomever Murphy and company bring in will "be into it".
02-27-2014 02:34 PM
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emu79 Offline
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Post: #55
RE: GameDay: CMU
(02-27-2014 01:37 PM)emu79 Wrote:  Ultimately the question needs to be asked is .500 acceptable each year re men's hoops for us alums, fans, students?

Hm.....
02-27-2014 02:36 PM
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Dennis D. Rachwal Offline
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Post: #56
RE: GameDay: CMU
(02-27-2014 02:34 PM)emu79 Wrote:  I'm not labeling Lee an underachiever, but Murphy apparently has some issues with his players at various times its been Bryant, Combs and now Lee for "not being into it", etc. A while back I questioned whether this team had the "heart" because it certainly had the talent to win the MAC West and go further. I hope whomever Murphy and company bring in will "be into it".

A BIG PART OF RECRUITING IS THAT RECRUITS LKE THE COACHING STAFF, ESPECIALLY THE HC. A HC'S REPUTATION PROCEEDS HIM.

AS STATED EARLIER, A LOT OF PLAYERS HAVE ENDED UP IN MURPHY'S DOGHOUSE THIS SEASON - THEY HAVE BEEN BENCHED EARLY ON IN GAMES, NEVER TO RETURN AND HAVE LOST THEIR STARTING JOBS QUITE OFTEN. LETS HOPE MURPHY'S REPUTATION HAS NOT PROCEEDED HIM.
02-27-2014 02:45 PM
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emu steve Offline
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Post: #57
RE: GameDay: CMU
(02-27-2014 02:19 PM)masttg Wrote:  
(02-27-2014 01:16 PM)emu steve Wrote:  This tells me that we are a very good team which failed to win a few close games. (some teams which aren't too good squeak out wins. We're the opposite).

Doesn't this mean that the team has under-performed thus far?

Not really.

I set my target for 11 - 7 +/1 in conference and 10, 11, or 12 wins is in the ball park.

Ten wins is an okay season. Eleven met expectations. Twelve beats expectation.

Under-performed is nine or less wins.

I believe Super thought 12 - 6 and some, including EagleSam, thought that was too high even with a good senior class.
02-27-2014 03:33 PM
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masttg Offline
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Post: #58
RE: GameDay: CMU
Steve you had them at 12-6 too. This team will fall 2 wins shy because they failed to close out Miami and NIU (lets ignore the Akron series).

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02-27-2014 03:37 PM
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emu steve Offline
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Post: #59
RE: GameDay: CMU
(02-27-2014 02:45 PM)Dennis D. Rachwal Wrote:  
(02-27-2014 02:34 PM)emu79 Wrote:  I'm not labeling Lee an underachiever, but Murphy apparently has some issues with his players at various times its been Bryant, Combs and now Lee for "not being into it", etc. A while back I questioned whether this team had the "heart" because it certainly had the talent to win the MAC West and go further. I hope whomever Murphy and company bring in will "be into it".

A BIG PART OF RECRUITING IS THAT RECRUITS LKE THE COACHING STAFF, ESPECIALLY THE HC. A HC'S REPUTATION PROCEEDS HIM.

AS STATED EARLIER, A LOT OF PLAYERS HAVE ENDED UP IN MURPHY'S DOGHOUSE THIS SEASON - THEY HAVE BEEN BENCHED EARLY ON IN GAMES, NEVER TO RETURN AND HAVE LOST THEIR STARTING JOBS QUITE OFTEN. LETS HOPE MURPHY'S REPUTATION HAS NOT PROCEEDED HIM.

Also a lot of it is the school and Murphy inherited a program which was in the doldrums. If I remember Super right, the U president had to use other funds (unallocated) to buy out Ramsey to make a change.

Six D-I wins three years ago when the schedule included a bunch of MAC teams which looked like...Well dare I say...The MAC team we demolished last night.

Wasn't our Sagarin over 300 (or around 300, I forget) for Ramsey's last season? 04-jawdrop

Murphy and Montgomery deserve credit getting these teams moving.
(This post was last modified: 02-27-2014 03:45 PM by emu steve.)
02-27-2014 03:41 PM
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Ken Barna Offline
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Post: #60
RE: GameDay: CMU
Dear Friends,
I wouldn't be too hard on Coach Murphy for benching players because of bad plays or wrong decisions, or whatever. Personally I agree with those kinds of coaching tactics to get players to think about the mistakes that they made. That was one of my problems with Coach English. Keeping players in the game when it was obvious that they were not performing.
It is up to the coach to decide whether you sit for a play or two, or whether you sit out the rest of the game. Some of his decision might be because of what a particular player did in practice, and then didn't follow through at game time.
I know it was ancient history, but that is what my high school football coach did. You goof up on a particular play and you got pulled. As I already said, it may be for only a play or two, or the rest of the game. I think that is a valid action by any coach to make you think about your responsibilities, and hopefully not make the same mistake twice.
02-27-2014 03:52 PM
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