(02-25-2014 12:52 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(02-25-2014 12:51 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(02-25-2014 12:48 PM)G-Man Wrote:  

(02-25-2014 12:46 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  Separation of school and state, please.

Separation of rights and people, unfortunately.

??

Second Amendment, Fourth Amendment, Sixth Amendment

Yep.

(02-25-2014 12:54 PM)G-Man Wrote:  

(02-25-2014 12:52 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(02-25-2014 12:51 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(02-25-2014 12:48 PM)G-Man Wrote:  

(02-25-2014 12:46 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  Separation of school and state, please.

Separation of rights and people, unfortunately.

??

Second Amendment, Fourth Amendment, Sixth Amendment

Yep.

??

(02-25-2014 12:57 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(02-25-2014 12:54 PM)G-Man Wrote:  

(02-25-2014 12:52 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(02-25-2014 12:51 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(02-25-2014 12:48 PM)G-Man Wrote:  Separation of rights and people, unfortunately.

??

Second Amendment, Fourth Amendment, Sixth Amendment

Yep.

??

I'm saying that the greater issue is that the school shouldn't have a right to do unreasonable searches, and that the problem is that our rights as US citizens aren't being respected/upheld- We as people (citizens of the US) have had our rights separated from us.

(02-25-2014 01:34 PM)G-Man Wrote:  I'm saying that the greater issue is that the school shouldn't have a right to do unreasonable searches, and that the problem is that our rights as US citizens aren't being respected/upheld- We as people (citizens of the US) have had our rights separated from us.

All true.

And I agree all that represents a "greater issue" than the issue of a dysfunctional education system. But somehow as a society, we will have to address both if we want to survive.

Didn't the Supreme Court rule that students leave their rights at the door when they enter a school?

(02-25-2014 05:41 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Didn't the Supreme Court rule that students leave their rights at the door when they enter a school?

To an extent, yes.

Besides a school acts in loco parentis.

But that doesn't mean that school leaders don't often make incredibly dumb decisions and overstep their bounds.

(02-25-2014 05:47 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  But that doesn't mean that school leaders don't often make incredibly dumb decisions and overstep their bounds.

Bingo. What was once done would have been:

"Jimmy, what's that knife doing in your car?"

"Oops, that's my dad's fishing knife, I drove his car today, mine wouldn't start"

"Well, make sure you check before you drive in next time - you can't have knives in the car at school, if we find something again, you'll be in trouble"

End of story. Too bad the above can't be done anymore.

If Jimmy were to next week stab someone - school officials held libel with national journalists playing the role of Monday morning QB.

Zero tolerance is the hide behind for cowards and dolts. Too stupid to make a common sense decision and too skeered of the lawsuits, responsibilities and their own lack of judgement to actually make one.

For whatever reason it became kind of a little fad in HS, lots of the guys wore their buck knife 110 knives on their belts. Funny, no one ever got hurt.

What, there are no knives in the cafeteria or teacher's lounge? And how is a knife that's in a car and not on your person a danger to someone in a classroom? There are plenty of objects in most shop classes that will do more damage than a knife.

(02-25-2014 06:12 PM)Crebman Wrote:  - national journalists playing the role of Monday morning QB.

That's a big problem right there. In many areas.

(02-25-2014 07:05 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  Zero tolerance is the hide behind for cowards and dolts. Too stupid to make a common sense decision and too skeered of the lawsuits, responsibilities and their own lack of judgement to actually make one.

For whatever reason it became kind of a little fad in HS, lots of the guys wore their buck knife 110 knives on their belts. Funny, no one ever got hurt.

I think that's part of it; its easier.

They also have to contend with possible law suits if they are seen to treat other kids differently.

We could have a loooooong thread on how bad the public education system is.

(02-25-2014 12:39 PM)sparkomemphis Wrote:  What I find funny , you can keep a tire iron to change a flat tire.
but can not keep a knife in your car, another useful tool to fix a broken part on a car.

The tire iron can be a much deadlier weapon.

Screw drivers, tire irons, bumper jacks, and the car itself can be very deadly weapons.

tire iron

bumper jack

I work in a school and every year without fail, we find students with knives.

I have yet however to catch a student with a bumper jack hidden in their pants.

(02-26-2014 11:55 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  I work in a school and every year without fail, we find students with knives.

How may of those student with knives stabbed other students? You know, I could easily stab someone with a pencil.

(02-26-2014 11:59 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(02-26-2014 11:55 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  I work in a school and every year without fail, we find students with knives.

How may of those student with knives stabbed other students? You know, I could easily stab someone with a pencil.

In the 10+ years that I have been at this school, we have had one stabbing and it was with a exacto knife. A female who stabbed a male because he constantly picked on her.

The others were found because the kid showed it to someone with the intention of stabbing another person. Thankfully, those students came forward with the information.

We have had one student intentionally stab a teacher with a pencil.

The difference between a knife and a pencil in school is that one serves a very useful purpose the other doesn't.

(02-26-2014 12:08 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  The difference between a knife and a pencil in school is that one serves a very useful purpose the other doesn't.

That's right. Pencils are always used to dissect frogs in biology class. No need for knives.

And its the same reason scissors shouldn't be allowed in school either. Pencils are great at cutting paper for art projects.

(02-26-2014 12:08 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  [quote='smn1256' pid='10473241' dateline='1393433964']
In the 10+ years that I have been at this school, we have had one stabbing and it was with a exacto knife. A female who stabbed a male because he constantly picked on her.

One stabbing in 10 years and it seems it was done out of frustration from being bullied - that's a pretty good record. Sounds like this zero tolerance rule is a solution in search of a problem.

(02-26-2014 01:26 PM)G-Man Wrote:  

(02-26-2014 12:08 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  The difference between a knife and a pencil in school is that one serves a very useful purpose the other doesn't.

That's right. Pencils are always used to dissect frogs in biology class. No need for knives.

And its the same reason scissors shouldn't be allowed in school either. Pencils are great at cutting paper for art projects.

A few years ago my hometown paper ran a story where a girl turned in a knife she used to cut an apple and left accidentally packed in her lunch. The paper wasn't clear but left the impression that it was essentially a butter knife.

The girl was suspended.

And since school is no place for butter, there was no useful purpose for the knife.

(02-26-2014 12:08 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  The difference between a knife and a pencil in school is that one serves a very useful purpose the other doesn't.

So, let's wreck the kid because one was found in his car.

Hell, let's see if we can't give him a felony conviction to drag around with him the rest of his life?

Surely, some adult could have, at some point in this whole process, said, "You know what? Maybe we're killing a house fly with a bazooka here."