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(02-19-2014 09:43 AM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  I don't like getting in internet debates about religion, but you keep bringing it up like it's just established fact that everyone should accept without evidence.

Mix - He is a man of faith. What he believes as a matter of that faith he sees as an established fact. Based on what each of you have written, you will never understand or believe what is simply bedrock foundation to his spiritual life.

Attempting to argue it is going to be fruitless, you'll never agree.

For what it's worth, I do understand where you're coming from - when someone states a religious belief as simple fact, it means that anyone else whose beliefs are not the same is at best wrong, and at worst is misguided/a heathen/unbeliever/gonna burn. If you are a person of one of those (many!) differing opinions, that assumption can cause anger and resentment.

Let it go. Y'all can hammer each other till this thread is longer than the Hats Off thread and never solve such a fundamental difference. I really really don't think either of you will convert the other on this one.

(02-19-2014 04:35 PM)UAB Band Dad Wrote:  

(02-19-2014 09:43 AM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  I don't like getting in internet debates about religion, but you keep bringing it up like it's just established fact that everyone should accept without evidence.

Mix - He is a man of faith. What he believes as a matter of that faith he sees as an established fact. Based on what each of you have written, you will never understand or believe what is simply bedrock foundation to his spiritual life.

Attempting to argue it is going to be fruitless, you'll never agree.

For what it's worth, I do understand where you're coming from - when someone states a religious belief as simple fact, it means that anyone else whose beliefs are not the same is at best wrong, and at worst is misguided/a heathen/unbeliever/gonna burn. If you are a person of one of those (many!) differing opinions, that assumption can cause anger and resentment.

Let it go. Y'all can hammer each other till this thread is longer than the Hats Off thread and never solve such a fundamental difference. I really really don't think either of you will convert the other on this one.

Band Dad... first I want to say thanks. I appreciate being called a man of faith. I wasn't always one –

Yes, Jesus Christ, the Son of God is my solid rock foundation – along with His Word. There is no sand under my feet and that will never change.

Jesus Christ made a lot of people uncomfortable 2,000 years ago. He still does today.

take care....

(02-19-2014 09:43 AM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(02-19-2014 02:14 AM)BlazerFire Wrote:  Most people would agree, that I would have a right to be enraged.

Not if you were the one that setup the rules saying that he had to die in the first place and had the power to change those rules.

I don't like getting in internet debates about religion, but you keep bringing it up like it's just established fact that everyone should accept without evidence. The fact that Jesus supposedly had to die to save us just doesn't make any sense. According to Christianity, God made the rules of the universe, right? It wasn't exactly a sacrifice if God could've changed the rules (or create them differently in the first place) or if Jesus was actually God because God can't die, right? I mean supposedly he was manifest physically on Earth as a human being, but he was God. If you have the power to make anything happen, then you quite literally are incapable of suffering to the extent that actual human beings suffer because God would have the power to end it (or be able to overcome/power through it because of his infinite power) while normal mortals do not have that capability. Do you not see the incongruities here? It just simply does not make any sense.

I'll make it short.

I can't event begin to wrap my head around the absolute power and might of God. All I can say to you is this – Almighty God can do ANYTHING he so chooses. He chose to become man. He chose to walk on Earth with us. He gave us free will to believe in Him – or not.

Lastly, of course some things don't make sense to us as humans. How can we fully understand God? Can a 2-year old understand how an engineer puts up a building? As smart as we think we are, we are that child to God. He has his reasons for everything.

Best to you.

(02-19-2014 10:14 PM)BlazerFire Wrote:  

(02-19-2014 09:43 AM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(02-19-2014 02:14 AM)BlazerFire Wrote:  Most people would agree, that I would have a right to be enraged.

Not if you were the one that setup the rules saying that he had to die in the first place and had the power to change those rules.

I don't like getting in internet debates about religion, but you keep bringing it up like it's just established fact that everyone should accept without evidence. The fact that Jesus supposedly had to die to save us just doesn't make any sense. According to Christianity, God made the rules of the universe, right? It wasn't exactly a sacrifice if God could've changed the rules (or create them differently in the first place) or if Jesus was actually God because God can't die, right? I mean supposedly he was manifest physically on Earth as a human being, but he was God. If you have the power to make anything happen, then you quite literally are incapable of suffering to the extent that actual human beings suffer because God would have the power to end it (or be able to overcome/power through it because of his infinite power) while normal mortals do not have that capability. Do you not see the incongruities here? It just simply does not make any sense.

I'll make it short.

I can't event begin to wrap my head around the absolute power and might of God. All I can say to you is this – Almighty God can do ANYTHING he so chooses. He chose to become man. He chose to walk on Earth with us. He gave us free will to believe in Him – or not.

Lastly, of course some things don't make sense to us as humans. How can we fully understand God? Can a 2-year old understand how an engineer puts up a building? As smart as we think we are, we are that child to God. He has his reasons for everything.

Best to you.

It's not that it's too complicated. It's that it's nonsense. Not trying to "convert" you (or anyone else) at any rate so have a good one.