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JMU to MAC imminent?
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Sitting bull Offline
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Post: #241
RE: JMU to MAC imminent?
(03-27-2014 07:50 PM)LostInSpace Wrote:  You are a W&M fan, right? I assume you've seen URI football. It's not a priority at URI. They aren't leaving the A10 for the CAA. Yes, the A10 will likely have to replace three members over time. AFAIK, Siena and Charleston are the top two replacement candidates. Both will likely struggle at first but they've got the best credentials (comapratively speaking) based on the things that the A10 uses to measure candidates. The A10 has a lot of experince at finding replacements and have a good track record of backfilling within their ability to do so. It's murkier after Siena and Charleston. It could be another MAAC member.

Yes and yes. I have wondered why URI has maintained football, don't know why, but they do. I assume they have some desire or reason there to do it. To be fair, they have been a bottom feeder for a long time but most took their move back to the CAA as a commitment to play at a higher level. They still don't impress me as the kind of school that would strictly make a decision based on basketball revenue alone - and it's not like the CAA is totally unable to provide something. We are on TV all the time up and down the seaboard and they could probably perform better than they do in the A10. So, it's a possibility.

I agree it's a longer shot - just mentioning as something that while not probable, I wouldn't be surprised either if there evolves an A10 with no UMass.

As far as the A10, I think VCU and Mason will change this conference over time more than people think. That's why I wonder about Davidson longer term. It's very tough for a very small, academic school to compete with schools the size of VCU and Mason. Davidson could quickly move from a perennial power at the mid major level to a bottom feeder - with a lot of travel expense thrown in. I still think the CAA would have been a better option for them, a slight step up and with a pool of schools with more similar academics. I think that was Charleston's thinking as well - and from what I read, the CAA made a commitment to build a southern flank for them. It was certainly an added expense for them and they had to review that carefully before committing to join. W&M and Delaware were both strong proponents for CofC. But again, only time will tell.

Not sour grapes, but I was actually glad to see VCU and Mason move on, ODU as well. The CAA was a great base for them to build their name and programs and the CAA obviously benefitted. I just like the current look much better from a W&M standpoint, a more regional conference with good academic and athletic rivals.
03-27-2014 08:23 PM
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bostonspider Offline
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Post: #242
RE: JMU to MAC imminent?
Besides W&M, who else in the CAA has similar level of academics to Davidson? At least in the A10 they have Richmond, a peer school, as well as other privates in Fordham, GW, St. Joe's, Dayton, Lasalle, St. Bonaventure, Duquesne, and St. Louis.
03-27-2014 08:50 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #243
RE: JMU to MAC imminent?
(03-27-2014 06:24 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  You are aware gist URI did announce a move down in football two years ago from the CAA to the NEC.
But their primary sport is BBall ... schools making a move down in status in a secondary sport is not so uncommon as schools making a move down in their primary sport. EG, Maryland and Rutgers moving to the Big Ten without working out what it meant for Lacrosse until after the decision was made.

Just look at UMass, with no clear landing place for their newly promoted FBS team because there would have been a supporters revolt if they had taken their BBall out of the six bid A10 for the autobid-only MAC.
(This post was last modified: 03-27-2014 09:55 PM by BruceMcF.)
03-27-2014 09:54 PM
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Sitting bull Offline
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Post: #244
RE: JMU to MAC imminent?
(03-27-2014 08:50 PM)bostonspider Wrote:  Besides W&M, who else in the CAA has similar level of academics to Davidson? At least in the A10 they have Richmond, a peer school, as well as other privates in Fordham, GW, St. Joe's, Dayton, Lasalle, St. Bonaventure, Duquesne, and St. Louis.

All private schools but none to my eye that are any different, probably not at par, with Northeastern, Drexel or Delaware. I have never seen any ranking that would put schools like St Bonaventure, GW, UR, Lasalle etc as top tier though surely all good.

But that wasn't my point. My point was the impact of schools entering such as VCU and Mason and how that will change the A10. Its going to be a different world for Davidson and one that I think will take them from perennial winner to perennial loser. Not to mention, their travel will be the most demanding in the league. It's a lot for a very small school.
03-27-2014 10:29 PM
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Sitting bull Offline
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Post: #245
RE: JMU to MAC imminent?
(03-27-2014 09:54 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 06:24 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  You are aware gist URI did announce a move down in football two years ago from the CAA to the NEC.
But their primary sport is BBall ... schools making a move down in status in a secondary sport is not so uncommon as schools making a move down in their primary sport. EG, Maryland and Rutgers moving to the Big Ten without working out what it meant for Lacrosse until after the decision was made.

Just look at UMass, with no clear landing place for their newly promoted FBS team because there would have been a supporters revolt if they had taken their BBall out of the six bid A10 for the autobid-only MAC.

I agree it's a longer shot, I'm just saying it's possible depending on how things develop. As earlier, they have a better basketball pedigree but they obviously don't ignore football, they are already in the CAA partially and if they become the only New England school in the A10 with most all of their closer conference mates being smaller private schools - just saying I could see them possibly considering a line-up with UAlbany, Stony Brook, Delaware, Northeastern, etc, as one to consider vs primarily private schools out of Philly and DC.

As far as UMass, football is going to determine where they go at this point, unless they drop it altogether. If they can join the AAC for football, I can't see them not taking all sports there whether the A10 gets multiple bids for basketball or not.
03-27-2014 10:39 PM
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bostonspider Offline
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Post: #246
RE: JMU to MAC imminent?
(03-27-2014 10:29 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  All private schools but none to my eye that are any different, probably not at par, with Northeastern, Drexel or Delaware. I have never seen any ranking that would put schools like St Bonaventure, GW, UR, Lasalle etc as top tier though surely all good.

But that wasn't my point. My point was the impact of schools entering such as VCU and Mason and how that will change the A10. Its going to be a different world for Davidson and one that I think will take them from perennial winner to perennial loser. Not to mention, their travel will be the most demanding in the league. It's a lot for a very small school.

Davidson is very similar to Richmond, though somewhat smaller. Both are highly ranked national liberal arts colleges, DC @#9, UR @#25. If Richmond can compete in the A10 then Davidson should be able to as well. How is competing with a school the size of VCU and GMU any harder for them than competing with App State or UTC was? But all in all there are more private schools, similar in athletic makeup to DC in the A10 than in the CAA. They will have to step up their recruiting as would any other school moving up in conference strength. Finally Fordham and GW are easily of comparable academic quality to Drexel and Northeastern.
03-27-2014 10:57 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #247
RE: JMU to MAC imminent?
(03-27-2014 10:39 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 09:54 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 06:24 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  You are aware gist URI did announce a move down in football two years ago from the CAA to the NEC.
But their primary sport is BBall ... schools making a move down in status in a secondary sport is not so uncommon as schools making a move down in their primary sport. EG, Maryland and Rutgers moving to the Big Ten without working out what it meant for Lacrosse until after the decision was made.

Just look at UMass, with no clear landing place for their newly promoted FBS team because there would have been a supporters revolt if they had taken their BBall out of the six bid A10 for the autobid-only MAC.

I agree it's a longer shot, I'm just saying it's possible depending on how things develop. As earlier, they have a better basketball pedigree but they obviously don't ignore football, they are already in the CAA partially and if they become the only New England school in the A10 with most all of their closer conference mates being smaller private schools - just saying I could see them possibly considering a line-up with UAlbany, Stony Brook, Delaware, Northeastern, etc, as one to consider vs primarily private schools out of Philly and DC.

As far as UMass, football is going to determine where they go at this point, unless they drop it altogether. If they can join the AAC for football, I can't see them not taking all sports there whether the A10 gets multiple bids for basketball or not.

I don't see the AAC taking UMass football anytime soon. I they improve and get thier on campus stadium situation squared away, maybe UMass would be more attractive---but right now--I don't see it. I think they strike a deal with the Sunbelt for a football only membership. That works for both parties---especially if UMass leaves the MAC in 2014.
03-28-2014 12:30 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #248
RE: JMU to MAC imminent?
(03-27-2014 08:50 PM)bostonspider Wrote:  Besides W&M, who else in the CAA has similar level of academics to Davidson? At least in the A10 they have Richmond, a peer school, as well as other privates in Fordham, GW, St. Joe's, Dayton, Lasalle, St. Bonaventure, Duquesne, and St. Louis.

Northeastern. Elon's not too shabby a school, either...just not great in the revenue athletics in terms of success.

The CAA really wanted, and I'll say actually needed Davidson to re-inject some life back into that conference. What they're putting back in is not really replacing what's leaving. That the A10 farmed SoCon for them, bypassing additional CAA schools who definitely want to be in the A10 (the three northern bball schools), making the CAA look like a ship loaded with malcontents.

I wouldn't rule out URI "dropping." Budgets will do that. And sometimes, it comes off like an upgrade depending on the conference being left behind. Boston left the AE for the Patriot...they're saving money up there by doing so, but because the AE looked like such a mess, people thought it was an upgrade...which it is, academically...just not athletically. For football, Charlotte dropped in hoops. In the W&M FOIA emails, the CAA thought they had a shot at a couple of A10 schools, even having some preliminary talks with some (GWU) if the "doomsday scenario" befell the A10. I get the feeling, though, that if the A10 did crumble, the American East, MAAC, and Patriot would profit about as much as CAA.
(This post was last modified: 03-28-2014 09:40 AM by The Cutter of Bish.)
03-28-2014 09:34 AM
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Post: #249
RE: JMU to MAC imminent?
W&M
Percent of Applicants Admitted: 32%
Test Scores -- 25th / 75th Percentile
SAT Critical Reading: 630 / 740
SAT Math: 620 / 720
SAT Writing: 620 / 720
ACT Composite: 28 /32
ACT English: 28 / 34
ACT Math: 27 / 33
ACT Writing: 8 / 9
First Year Student Retention (full-time students): 96%
Transfer-out Rate: 8%
4-Year Graduation Rate: 83%
6-Year Graduation Rate: 90%

Northeastern
Percent of Applicants Admitted: 32%
Mean High School GPA: 3.7
Test Scores -- 25th / 75th Percentile
SAT Critical Reading: 630 / 720
SAT Math: 650 / 740
SAT Writing: 610 / 710
First Year Student Retention (full-time students): 96%
6-Year Graduation Rate: 79%

Elon
Percent of Applicants Admitted: 52%
Test Scores -- 25th / 75th Percentile
SAT Critical Reading: 570 / 660
SAT Math: 560 / 660
SAT Writing: 570 / 670
First Year Student Retention (full-time students): 90%
4-Year Graduation Rate: 77%
6-Year Graduation Rate: 83%

Drexel
Percent of Applicants Admitted: 75%
Test Scores -- 25th / 75th Percentile
SAT Critical Reading: 540 / 640
SAT Math: 580 / 680
SAT Writing: 530 / 640
ACT Composite: 24 / 29
ACT English: 23 / 29
ACT Math: 24 / 30
First Year Student Retention (full-time students): 85%
Transfer Out Rate: 26%
4-Year Graduation Rate: 27%
6-Year Graduation Rate: 65%

Delaware
Percent of Applicants Admitted: 59%
Test Scores -- 25th / 75th Percentile
SAT Critical Reading: 530 / 640
SAT Math: 540 / 660
SAT Writing: 530 / 640
ACT Composite: 24 / 28
ACT English: 24 / 30
ACT Math: 24 / 29
ACT Writing: 8 / 9
First Year Student Retention (full-time students): 92%
4-Year Graduation Rate: 67%
6-Year Graduation Rate: 80%

Hofstra
Percent of Applicants Admitted: 59%
Test Scores -- 25th / 75th Percentile
SAT Critical Reading: 530 / 620
SAT Math: 550 / 630
SAT Writing: - / -
ACT Composite: 23 / 27
ACT English: - / -
ACT Math: - / -
First Year Student Retention (full-time students): 78%
4-Year Graduation Rate: 45%
6-Year Graduation Rate: 61%

CoC
Percent of Applicants Admitted: 74%
Test Scores -- 25th / 75th Percentile
SAT Critical Reading: 540 / 650
SAT Math: 540 / 630
SAT Writing: - / -
ACT Composite: 22 / 26
ACT English: 22 / 28
ACT Math: 22 / 26
First Year Student Retention (full-time students): 81%
Transfer-out Rate: 25%
4-Year Graduation Rate: 58%
6-Year Graduation Rate: 69%

UNCW
Percent of Applicants Admitted: 53%
Average High School GPA: 3.78
Test Scores -- 25th / 75th Percentile
SAT Critical Reading: 540 / 620
SAT Math: 550 / 630
SAT Writing: 520 / 600
ACT Composite: 22 / 27
ACT English: 21 / 27
ACT Math: 22 / 26
ACT Writing: 6 / 8
First Year Student Retention (full-time students): 86%
Transfer Out Rate: 14%
4-Year Graduation Rate: 49%
6-Year Graduation Rate: 69%

JMU
Percent of Applicants Admitted: 61%
GPA, SAT and ACT graph for JMU
Test Scores -- 25th / 75th Percentile
SAT Critical Reading: 520 / 620
SAT Math: 530 / 620
SAT Writing: 520 / 610
ACT Composite: 23 / 27
ACT English: - / -
ACT Math: - / -
First Year Student Retention (full-time students): 91%
Transfer Out Rate: 8%
4-Year Graduation Rate: 63%
6-Year Graduation Rate: 80%

Towson
Percent of Applicants Admitted: 52%
Test Scores -- 25th / 75th Percentile
SAT Critical Reading: 490 / 580
SAT Math: 500 / 600
SAT Writing: 500 / 590
ACT Composite: 21 / 25
First Year Student Retention (full-time students): 86%
Transfer Out Rate: 13%
4-Year Graduation Rate: 39%
6-Year Graduation Rate: 66%
03-28-2014 09:51 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #250
RE: JMU to MAC imminent?
(03-28-2014 12:30 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I don't see the AAC taking UMass football anytime soon. I they improve and get thier on campus stadium situation squared away, maybe UMass would be more attractive---but right now--I don't see it.
Given the level of improvement required, that can be placed under the catch all category "unless things change dramatically ...". Unless UMass FB changes dramatically, or the AAC is hit hard by a next wave of P5 realignment, or both, UMass is not going to be invited into the AAC.

Quote: I think they strike a deal with the Sunbelt for a football only membership. That works for both parties---especially if UMass leaves the MAC in 2014.
Except JMU all-sports better meets the Sunbelt's needs overall, so its likely up to JMU whether UMass is first in line or second. The Sunbelt is four steps below the Colonial on the conference RPI ladder this year ... and their seeming preferences have been for two Go5 conferences which would be two or three steps up, instead, the MAC and CUSA.
(This post was last modified: 03-28-2014 11:38 AM by BruceMcF.)
03-28-2014 11:35 AM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #251
RE: JMU to MAC imminent?
Just a thought but given the timing of this thread, I wonder if UMass had said yes to the MAC all sports if JMU would have been brought in as #14.
03-28-2014 12:03 PM
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JMU2004 Offline
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RE: JMU to MAC imminent?
(03-28-2014 12:03 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Just a thought but given the timing of this thread, I wonder if UMass had said yes to the MAC all sports if JMU would have been brought in as #14.

seems to be the accepted theory out there. With absolute certainty, I can tell you JMU was in advance discussions with the MAC last fall.
03-28-2014 12:18 PM
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jdgaucho Offline
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RE: JMU to MAC imminent?
Reasonable assumption, and was a likely scenario as well. Now that UMass has turned down the MAC? Not so much.
03-28-2014 12:18 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #254
RE: JMU to MAC imminent?
There's a CAA football connection there between UMass and JMU, and it wouldn't surprise me if by UMass passing, JMU's resolve for reunification with ODU only strengthened. Still, I do wonder if by all this posturing and positioning, there aren't a couple of schools who have called the MAC and said, "we're fine with some stability if you're offering it." No pressure on the MAC...and it looks like they play a good game of cards over there.
03-28-2014 01:37 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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RE: JMU to MAC imminent?
(03-28-2014 12:03 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Just a thought but given the timing of this thread, I wonder if UMass had said yes to the MAC all sports if JMU would have been brought in as #14.
I expect so ... if UMass had exercised their option to join the MAC all-sports, the MAC would have wanted a 14th all-sports school to add to the Eastern division, since 8 conference games with two 7 school divisions does not fit well with locked cross-division games between Toledo and Bowling Green, and if the Eastern division schools got better Eastern exposure, the western schools would want their games played in Ohio to be maintained, which two Ohio schools in-division accomplishes.

And JMU would have been the best candidate for that 14th school added to the Eastern division ... not a bad location for OhioU, Kent and Akron, not great location for MiamiU or Buffalo but better than most alternatives for MiamiU, history with UMass in the old A10 FB conference and its successor CAA-FB, location in Virginia, a football recruiting ground in line with Ohio.

(03-28-2014 01:37 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  No pressure on the MAC...and it looks like they play a good game of cards over there.
Yeah, we found out that the MAC had exercised their option about a month after they exercised it, at about the same time that UMass publicly released their response ... a substantial contrast to the old Big East, which leaked like a sieve.

The MAC is in a strong position to wait and see and move if an opportunity arises that ESPN says is worth some extra money. So with respect to the actual thread topic, since making sure that a contingency was in place in the event UMass exercised it option would explain the rumblings from Harrisonburg (and why they were rumblings rather than actual announcements), I expect a move by JMU to the MAC is less likely to be imminent.

Of course, if Army decides it wants to join a conference, but not Navy's conference, the whole eastern expansion strategy gets put right back on the table, but barring that, it could be back on the back burner.
(This post was last modified: 03-28-2014 02:30 PM by BruceMcF.)
03-28-2014 02:17 PM
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Sitting bull Offline
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RE: JMU to MAC imminent?
(03-27-2014 10:57 PM)bostonspider Wrote:  
(03-27-2014 10:29 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  All private schools but none to my eye that are any different, probably not at par, with Northeastern, Drexel or Delaware. I have never seen any ranking that would put schools like St Bonaventure, GW, UR, Lasalle etc as top tier though surely all good.

But that wasn't my point. My point was the impact of schools entering such as VCU and Mason and how that will change the A10. Its going to be a different world for Davidson and one that I think will take them from perennial winner to perennial loser. Not to mention, their travel will be the most demanding in the league. It's a lot for a very small school.
How is competing with a school the size of VCU and GMU any harder for them than competing with App State or UTC was?

I agree Davidson probably has it's closest look-a-like with UR within the A10, past history as well.

But really, VCU and Mason are urban universities with solid recent histories in basketball. UR, with almost 10 years of A10 recruiting behind them and a decent team, went 0-4 against these two this year - and Mason had a down year. To compare them to Chattanooga and App State is way off reality. Davidson is going to really struggle, just have to see how patient they, and their fans who are used to winning, may be.
03-28-2014 06:12 PM
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RE: JMU to MAC imminent?
(03-26-2014 11:29 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  With the exception of a 1-0 record vs. the B1G, Army has a losing record vs. every FBS league over the past 10 years.

Makes more sense to have their own TV, own bowl deal and try to accurately gauge future strength of opponents to pick out a non-conference slate.

Does Army even have any tie-ins for the 2014-19 bowl cycle? A couple of slots in the Armed Forces bowl, I think.

I'm not sure if they can continue to stand on their own 2 feet long term. The lure of CFP money might be too much to ignore.
03-28-2014 09:13 PM
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Pony94 Offline
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JMU to MAC imminent?
Think they can go to Armed Forces Bowl
03-28-2014 09:19 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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RE: JMU to MAC imminent?
(03-28-2014 09:19 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  Think they can go to Armed Forces Bowl
AFAIU, the prevailing Armed Forces Bowl tie in was CUSA/MWC with Navy and Army as secondaries if either primary cannot fill the slot ... don't know if its the same in the new set of bowl deals. Air Force can participate as a MWC participant.

Under that arrangement, it would seem Army would be the sole secondary tie-in once Navy is a member of The American.

Of course, over the past decade the question of bowl tie-ins has often not been an issue for the Black Knights, but they did play the fill-in role in 2010 when the MWC did not have the teams to fill the slot.
(This post was last modified: 03-28-2014 10:13 PM by BruceMcF.)
03-28-2014 10:12 PM
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