(02-18-2014 03:21 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  ...

I think the ring comparison, when you're talking about the centerpiece of a team, means a lot. It's the only reason that Dan Marino isn't the consensus best QB of all time; he never won the big one. There weren't two or three superpowers like the Celts/Lakers or Heat/Celts lately, but Jordan also wasn't playing on an All-star squad either.

Jordan never had the Lakers as a rival, but he had the Thomas and the Pistons, and Miller and the Pacers, and Penny and the Magic and Ewing and the Knicks.

Why is Iverson's name never bandied about with Magic, and Kobe and Jordan? No rings.

Right but no one is seriously going to argue that Ben Roethlisberger is a better QB than Marino. No one should argue Shaquille O'Neal (or hell throw George Mikan in here) was a better player than Wilt Chamberlain, even though he has more rings. Or that anyone on the (relatively) recent Celtics or, especially, the Pistons championship teams is/was a better player than Elgin Baylor, or the equal of Oscar Robertson.

I mean, I don't really buy that Bird was better than Jordan, but I don't think it's as simple as just counting up the rings. Of course rings are important. They are the point of playing, after all. But they aren't the whole argument. If they were we'd just pull out Bill Russel and be done with it.

And just to throw this out there, the Bulls did make it to the Conference Semi-Finals in between the three-peats. So it's not like the Bulls were complete slaw without Jordan either.

(02-18-2014 05:09 PM)Briskbas Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 03:21 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  ...

I think the ring comparison, when you're talking about the centerpiece of a team, means a lot. It's the only reason that Dan Marino isn't the consensus best QB of all time; he never won the big one. There weren't two or three superpowers like the Celts/Lakers or Heat/Celts lately, but Jordan also wasn't playing on an All-star squad either.

Jordan never had the Lakers as a rival, but he had the Thomas and the Pistons, and Miller and the Pacers, and Penny and the Magic and Ewing and the Knicks.

Why is Iverson's name never bandied about with Magic, and Kobe and Jordan? No rings.

Right but no one is seriously going to argue that Ben Roethlisberger is a better QB than Marino. No one should argue Shaquille O'Neal (or hell throw George Mikan in here) was a better player than Wilt Chamberlain, even though he has more rings. Or that anyone on the (relatively) recent Celtics or, especially, the Pistons championship teams is/was a better player than Elgin Baylor, or the equal of Oscar Robertson.

I mean, I don't really buy that Bird was better than Jordan, but I don't think it's as simple as just counting up the rings. Of course rings are important. They are the point of playing, after all. But they aren't the whole argument. If they were we'd just pull out Bill Russel and be done with it.

And just to throw this out there, the Bulls did make it to the Conference Semi-Finals in between the three-peats. So it's not like the Bulls were complete slaw without Jordan either.

It's was decent coaching, maybe the best coaching job by Phil Jackson that got that team to the conference finals but that team was nothing but role players that did their job well. Pippen was voted as one of the NBA top 50 but on the low marginal end of the list, so MJ was and always will be the main reason they were competitive and won those championships

I believe Bird could still out shoot most of the players today wearing combat boots.

(02-18-2014 01:57 PM)Irse Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 12:00 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 11:05 AM)Irse Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 10:51 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 10:45 AM)TigerTot Wrote:  In the playoffs, Bird was playing against superior teams than Jordan was.

So you are saying that the players in the NBA have gotten weaker over time?

Honestly do you truly believe that teams in the 80's can beat teams now...Or were the teams Bird was playing against just better compared to the rest of the league at the time.

Most definitely. Today, they're more athletic but poorer in fundamentals. I would take the Lakers and Celtics over anyone today. Maybe even the Pistons.

Ok...

I honestly don't think that Cooper, Rambis, Scott and Green would fare well in todays game.

That maybe true regarding Green and Rambis but I think Scott would still outshoot most of the guys today and Cooper was more of a defensive stopper.

Kareem, Parish, and Lambieer would dominate any center there is now. I think Malone, McHale, Barkley, Rodman would dominate any current PF.

Kareem in his prime yes not when he was playing with Magic...

Parish and Lambier would not dominate Howard...Heck Lambier wouldn't even start for most teams the way the game is called today.

Now PFs I have to greatly disagree with you...The game is totally different now and the way those guys played outside of Malone would not translate to today...Even Barkley would struggle because the guys today are close to athletic as he was and he was much shorter.

(02-18-2014 08:35 AM)tmoneyinmphs Wrote:  

(02-17-2014 07:54 PM)tigertaylor Wrote:  In the Roy Hibbert video, almost at the end, Simmons asks Hibbert about his "best Larry Bird story". RH goes on and talks about the time that Shawne was apparently calling out Larry the year he got drafted about how Larry got hooped by MJ....and Larry says, yeah ,that might be true, but i can still outshoot you now....and promptly does so....in his dress shoes LOL

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nba-al...ith-video/

I bet you could outshoot shawne williams in your flip flops.

(02-18-2014 07:34 AM)GermantownTiger Wrote:  Bird couldn't run or jump worth a flip, but man, the dude could pass and shoot the rock like nobody's business.

Fundamentals.

LOL TMoney! we both could! :)

(02-18-2014 10:49 AM)memphistiger89 Wrote:  

(02-17-2014 08:33 PM)tigertaylor Wrote:  no doubt. lifelong Celtics fan. finally got my mom to take me to Thompson Boiling in Knoxville to see preseason game vs Washington wizards. bird gets kicked out in 2nd quarter for getting into fight with Harvey grant. Doh!

LOL. I was at that game as well. Got to see a lot of great Celtics players including Larry. From what I remember, Bird had a pretty mediocre game before the fight.

Cool man! at least we got to see parrish, ainge, McHale, right? LOL

[quote='memphistiger89' pid='10443747' dateline='1392753570']
I've lived in southern Indiana now for 15 years. We live 30 minutes from French Lick. It still amazes me that someone that good came from such a small town.

Bird played at Springs Valley High School. I have had several opportunities to visit there for our kid's volleyball and basketball games. They still use the same gym that Bird played in. It is somewhat of a shrine in Indiana high school basketball.

I know several people who played against Bird in high school. My favorite story is when Salem played at Springs Valley Bird's senior season in 1974. Salem scored 52 points in a losing effort. Bird scored 54 by himself for Valley.

Here are a few pics from their gym.




[/quivery

very cool. thanks for sharing these pics!

Nolan Richardson tells a great story about Bird. Richardson was on a recruiting trip and was traveling across Indiana and at nights he would pick up high school basketball games and he kept hearing about Bird, and one night picked up a play by play of a game that Bird was in. He decided to go check this guy out and says that of all the things that he had in his mind; rebounding, scoring, passing, he walks into the gym and "Bird is white!".

(02-19-2014 12:36 AM)tigertaylor Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 10:49 AM)memphistiger89 Wrote:  

(02-17-2014 08:33 PM)tigertaylor Wrote:  no doubt. lifelong Celtics fan. finally got my mom to take me to Thompson Boiling in Knoxville to see preseason game vs Washington wizards. bird gets kicked out in 2nd quarter for getting into fight with Harvey grant. Doh!

LOL. I was at that game as well. Got to see a lot of great Celtics players including Larry. From what I remember, Bird had a pretty mediocre game before the fight.

Cool man! at least we got to see parrish, ainge, McHale, right? LOL

Those Celtics teams from the 80s were loaded. It was worth the trip to see Bird although he had an off night. From what I remember, I think that was the season Bird played pre-season and then had surgery for a foot injury and missed most if not all of the regular season.

(02-19-2014 11:00 AM)memphistiger89 Wrote:  

(02-19-2014 12:36 AM)tigertaylor Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 10:49 AM)memphistiger89 Wrote:  

(02-17-2014 08:33 PM)tigertaylor Wrote:  no doubt. lifelong Celtics fan. finally got my mom to take me to Thompson Boiling in Knoxville to see preseason game vs Washington wizards. bird gets kicked out in 2nd quarter for getting into fight with Harvey grant. Doh!

LOL. I was at that game as well. Got to see a lot of great Celtics players including Larry. From what I remember, Bird had a pretty mediocre game before the fight.

Cool man! at least we got to see parrish, ainge, McHale, right? LOL

Those Celtics teams from the 80s were loaded. It was worth the trip to see Bird although he had an off night. From what I remember, I think that was the season Bird played pre-season and then had surgery for a foot injury and missed most if not all of the regular season.

Was that the year Danny Ainge tried to bite off Tree Rollins' finger?

(02-19-2014 11:48 AM)bubbapt Wrote:  

(02-19-2014 11:00 AM)memphistiger89 Wrote:  

(02-19-2014 12:36 AM)tigertaylor Wrote:  

(02-18-2014 10:49 AM)memphistiger89 Wrote:  

(02-17-2014 08:33 PM)tigertaylor Wrote:  no doubt. lifelong Celtics fan. finally got my mom to take me to Thompson Boiling in Knoxville to see preseason game vs Washington wizards. bird gets kicked out in 2nd quarter for getting into fight with Harvey grant. Doh!

LOL. I was at that game as well. Got to see a lot of great Celtics players including Larry. From what I remember, Bird had a pretty mediocre game before the fight.

Cool man! at least we got to see parrish, ainge, McHale, right? LOL

Those Celtics teams from the 80s were loaded. It was worth the trip to see Bird although he had an off night. From what I remember, I think that was the season Bird played pre-season and then had surgery for a foot injury and missed most if not all of the regular season.

Was that the year Danny Ainge tried to bite off Tree Rollins' finger?

LOL. I don't remember the season but I do remember Ainge biting Rollins on the wrist. It looked like a scene out of Fletch.