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Sorry, I don't have links - I just heard it from a friend whose cousin's roommate is friends with someone on the team.

Anyway - Mikhail Dubose and Roosevelt Donaldson are gone.

We're going to be looking at a completely different team next year.

(02-14-2014 09:32 AM)Nacho Wrote:  Sorry, I don't have links - I just heard it from a friend whose cousin's roommate is friends with someone on the team.

Anyway - Mikhail Dubose and Roosevelt Donaldson are gone.

We knew that. Are there more?

(02-14-2014 09:49 AM)Kimbosucks Wrote:  

(02-14-2014 09:32 AM)Nacho Wrote:  Sorry, I don't have links - I just heard it from a friend whose cousin's roommate is friends with someone on the team.

Anyway - Mikhail Dubose and Roosevelt Donaldson are gone.

We knew that. Are there more?

Oh. Idk let me call up my friend again later.

(02-14-2014 09:53 AM)Nacho Wrote:  

(02-14-2014 09:49 AM)Kimbosucks Wrote:  

(02-14-2014 09:32 AM)Nacho Wrote:  Sorry, I don't have links - I just heard it from a friend whose cousin's roommate is friends with someone on the team.

Anyway - Mikhail Dubose and Roosevelt Donaldson are gone.

We knew that. Are there more?

Oh. Idk let me call up my friend again later.

There are currently only TEN seniors listed on the roster. I am assuming that is extremely LOW.

it's low, but is it unexpected in the second year of a new regime? Honest question, i don't know.

(02-14-2014 10:26 AM)SilentStryk09 Wrote:  it's low, but is it unexpected in the second year of a new regime? Honest question, i don't know.

I'd say it's a little low but coaching change is a factor, thus not "unexpected."

Quote:Posted by Nacho - Today 08:32 AM
Sorry, I don't have links - I just heard it from a friend whose cousin's roommate is friends with someone on the team.

Anyway - Mikhail Dubose and Roosevelt Donaldson are gone.

Did your friend's cousin's roommate's friend give a reason for them leaving the team?

Thought these two got decent playing time last year.

I am going to say this and it probably wont be popular, and I am not saying this is or isn't the reason, just a thought. Maybe some of these guys are leaving just plain due to on field accountability. All of the guys that have left were Cubit recruits. I get the sense that Cubit gave upper class men preferential treatment with regards to playing time ( Even at the behest of his job... starting Carder his last year at the end when it was obvious Carder was in-effective). Fleck appears to field who he thinks is a best fit each and every week. Be it decided by weekday practicing...etc... Maybe these guys just don't agree with the philosophies of the different coaches with respect to this. Kind of a "hey I earned this, now you bring in these young guys who are supposedly "the best" and expect me to start all over again?" They saw how Lark tumbled down the depth chart last year and just don't want to play that game.

Both guys played in 11 games and started 2. They are both in the top 5-7 returning tackle and TFL leaders as far as stats.

I will take the other side and maybe they see Fleck is only going to play "his" guys and they see that and know they will not get the chance to compete. It goes both ways. You say Cubit went with older players and I can say PJ is going to play "his" guys which could be at the detriment to his job.

(02-14-2014 11:18 AM)Kimbosucks Wrote:  Both guys played in 11 games and started 2. They are both in the top 5-7 returning tackle and TFL leaders as far as stats.

I will take the other side and maybe they see Fleck is only going to play "his" guys and they see that and know they will not get the chance to compete. It goes both ways. You say Cubit went with older players and I can say PJ is going to play "his" guys which could be at the detriment to his job.

If that was the case ( Fleck only playing his players ) why would Chance be going the extra mile to gain an extra year of eligibility? Seems a little odd for a player who was well entrenched in the Cubit era and would be extending an already long WMU Football career.

(02-14-2014 11:33 AM)flushtheherd Wrote:  

(02-14-2014 11:18 AM)Kimbosucks Wrote:  Both guys played in 11 games and started 2. They are both in the top 5-7 returning tackle and TFL leaders as far as stats.

I will take the other side and maybe they see Fleck is only going to play "his" guys and they see that and know they will not get the chance to compete. It goes both ways. You say Cubit went with older players and I can say PJ is going to play "his" guys which could be at the detriment to his job.

If that was the case ( Fleck only playing his players ) why would Chance be going the extra mile to gain an extra year of eligibility? Seems a little odd for a player who was well entrenched in the Cubit era and would be extending an already long WMU Football career.

At the risk of speaking for Kimbo, I think he was pointing more to a perception problem.

Good thing we already have offered 46 high school juniors.

(02-14-2014 11:18 AM)Kimbosucks Wrote:  Both guys played in 11 games and started 2. They are both in the top 5-7 returning tackle and TFL leaders as far as stats.

I will take the other side and maybe they see Fleck is only going to play "his" guys and they see that and know they will not get the chance to compete. It goes both ways. You say Cubit went with older players and I can say PJ is going to play "his" guys which could be at the detriment to his job.

Not get a chance to compete? What coach doesn't want competition for jobs? Might he have a tendency towards his guys? Sure. A lot of new coaches do. But to make a leap that he isn't going to play the best guys at a position just because they were from the previous regime is a little silly.

(02-14-2014 11:11 AM)flushtheherd Wrote:  I am going to say this and it probably wont be popular, and I am not saying this is or isn't the reason, just a thought. Maybe some of these guys are leaving just plain due to on field accountability. All of the guys that have left were Cubit recruits. I get the sense that Cubit gave upper class men preferential treatment with regards to playing time ( Even at the behest of his job... starting Carder his last year at the end when it was obvious Carder was in-effective). Fleck appears to field who he thinks is a best fit each and every week. Be it decided by weekday practicing...etc... Maybe these guys just don't agree with the philosophies of the different coaches with respect to this. Kind of a "hey I earned this, now you bring in these young guys who are supposedly "the best" and expect me to start all over again?" They saw how Lark tumbled down the depth chart last year and just don't want to play that game.

Cubit most certainly did not give upper class men preferential treatment for playing time - particularly seniors. He had favorites, but is wasn't tied to class.

I think it has mostly to do with the fact that the writing is on the wall that Fleck is going to play HIS kids.

This was a question that I asked regarding bringing in this heralded recruiting class. How is that going to play with the upperclassmen. I think that for some they either see that they aren't going to get the playing time. Or they see that they are going to be overshadowed by these young guys, when they have paid their dues for 3 seasons. I think there is a fine line there with hyping youngsters (especially before they have ever played a down).

That said, I don't really blame either side. If they feel that this isn't for them anymore, then go ahead and move on. If Fleck wants to simply get HIS guys on the field and build that way, then so be it.

My only real concern is that with the continued departures of experienced players, that means more youngsters playing significant minutes. And while they might be talented, youngsters need time to mature and figure it out. 1 or 2 is one thing 15-20 is another thing all together.

Get used to it. The next full season will likely look quite a bit like last year. Ton's of youngsters gaining experience and learning every down. I'm personally prepared for another lopsided win loss record... and not in the good way. I do think that Fleck is gaining momentum and just need another year or so to really get things moving.

Likely going to be another excuse filled season based on youth, but such it is when coaches change and players defect. I'm surprised that the ones that are leaving now, had an entire year under Fleck before they decided to bolt. For all we know it has nothing to do with Football, but possibly school, or home, or any other number of non-athletic related issues. If it wasn't for speculation of all sorts, this board would be pretty quiet.

(02-14-2014 01:19 PM)Stampede your face!! Wrote:  

(02-14-2014 11:18 AM)Kimbosucks Wrote:  Both guys played in 11 games and started 2. They are both in the top 5-7 returning tackle and TFL leaders as far as stats.

I will take the other side and maybe they see Fleck is only going to play "his" guys and they see that and know they will not get the chance to compete. It goes both ways. You say Cubit went with older players and I can say PJ is going to play "his" guys which could be at the detriment to his job.

Not get a chance to compete? What coach doesn't want competition for jobs? Might he have a tendency towards his guys? Sure. A lot of new coaches do. But to make a leap that he isn't going to play the best guys at a position just because they were from the previous regime is a little silly.

Have u followed the conversation?

Huh. No one is questioning my sources.

(02-14-2014 03:37 PM)Nacho Wrote:  Huh. No one is questioning my sources.

You actually have to give us some new info Nacho