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ACC moving forward with 9 games. What will the SEC do?
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cuseroc Offline
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Post: #41
RE: ACC moving forward with 9 games. What will the SEC do?
(02-15-2014 11:55 AM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  VT is not new to the ACC. You think they are new because you are only looking at the last couple of decade. They are not "new", they are old. We also know that it's a Yankee's tendency to say what's on their mind, to be blunt. Personally I like that trait instead of all the southern hem-hawing, pleasantries, etc., etc. But when it comes to business in the South, you surface ideas carefully, obtain a couple of folks that agree, and then raise it in private. The ACC operates like a Country Club, not a NY Board Room. You will see Notre Dame and Louisville fall right into line with that method of operation.

You can say anything in private here, but not in public. It's hypocritical but that's how this area rolls - we paper over our differences. Syracuse made the mistake of using public email, when a phone call or a meeting at the airport would have worked. He knows better for the future.

There is an airport in Greensboro - Piedmont Triad. He needs to get to know it, as well as the airport in Greenville, SC. Buffalo might work well for Syracuse, Pitt, and ND.

So your thinking is that every time one of the ACC AD's has an idea that he thinks will improve the conference that he should actually get on a plane and make a trip to visit the other 14 AD's to get their thoughts on the matter rather than using email? I can guarantee you that that's not the way business is done anywhere, not even in your precious south.


Apparently, the guy at FSU didn't know about the southern way of doing business when he actually did say publicly, in a public setting, (not email) that FSU should talk to the Big 12. He didn't use email.
(This post was last modified: 02-15-2014 12:58 PM by cuseroc.)
02-15-2014 12:57 PM
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lumberpack4 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: ACC moving forward with 9 games. What will the SEC do?
Cuseroc, telephones still exist. Smart people use them. Stupid people use public email. And the FSU Board Chairman came off looking like an idiot - one the reasons he was not reappointed. Perhaps you know one of the reasons why the ACC took BC over Syracuse in 2004.
02-15-2014 01:11 PM
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cuseroc Offline
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Post: #43
RE: ACC moving forward with 9 games. What will the SEC do?
(02-15-2014 01:11 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Cuseroc, telephones still exist. Smart people use them. Stupid people use public email. And the FSU Board Chairman came off looking like an idiot - one the reasons he was not reappointed. Perhaps you know one of the reasons why the ACC took BC over Syracuse in 2004.

No, I don't, butI can assure you that it had nothing to do with the absurd theory that you are promoting.
(This post was last modified: 02-15-2014 01:20 PM by cuseroc.)
02-15-2014 01:17 PM
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lumberpack4 Offline
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Post: #44
RE: ACC moving forward with 9 games. What will the SEC do?
(02-15-2014 01:17 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(02-15-2014 01:11 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Cuseroc, telephones still exist. Smart people use them. Stupid people use public email. And the FSU Board Chairman came off looking like an idiot - one the reasons he was not reappointed. Perhaps you know one of the reasons why the ACC took BC over Syracuse in 2004.

I can assure you that it had nothing to do with the nonsense that you are promoting.

Cuse, you were not very popular back in 2003.

That's why our chancellor made to motion to not vote on a 12th and to persue ND instead. As time went on it became obvious that BC was the school to reward since none of the folks had shot their mouth off in a negative way toward the ACC. Neither UNC, Duke, or NC State really wanted you.

Duke and UNC could have made sure you came in and VT stayed out, instead they stood by while a motion was made to allow Miami and VT in (2) knowing that put UVa in the political bind.

But that's all water under the bridge now.

If you want to get along inside the league, you need to learn not to speak out of turn. It's that simple and a few addition have not changed the general makeup of the league. UVa, VT, UNC, NC State, Duke, GT, Clemson, and ND don't handle their business in public. The only time FSU did, it came from someone without the authority to speak. BC has had some loose lips to be sure, but if you want something to happen, you get a couple on board with you, then you bring it up out of the public eye. If you don't schools will vote against you just to show you who has the power. You don't want that.
02-15-2014 01:26 PM
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cuseroc Offline
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Post: #45
RE: ACC moving forward with 9 games. What will the SEC do?
(02-15-2014 01:26 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  
(02-15-2014 01:17 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(02-15-2014 01:11 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Cuseroc, telephones still exist. Smart people use them. Stupid people use public email. And the FSU Board Chairman came off looking like an idiot - one the reasons he was not reappointed. Perhaps you know one of the reasons why the ACC took BC over Syracuse in 2004.

I can assure you that it had nothing to do with the nonsense that you are promoting.

Cuse, you were not very popular back in 2003.

That's why our chancellor made to motion to not vote on a 12th and to persue ND instead. As time went on it became obvious that BC was the school to reward since none of the folks had shot their mouth off in a negative way toward the ACC. Neither UNC, Duke, or NC State really wanted you.

Duke and UNC could have made sure you came in and VT stayed out, instead they stood by while a motion was made to allow Miami and VT in (2) knowing that put UVa in the political bind.

But that's all water under the bridge now.

If you want to get along inside the league, you need to learn not to speak out of turn. It's that simple and a few addition have not changed the general makeup of the league. UVa, VT, UNC, NC State, Duke, GT, Clemson, and ND don't handle their business in public. The only time FSU did, it came from someone without the authority to speak. BC has had some loose lips to be sure, but if you want something to happen, you get a couple on board with you, then you bring it up out of the public eye. If you don't schools will vote against you just to show you who has the power. You don't want that.

I have one thing to say to you and then Im done. Your stance on an private email being sent to other ACC officials as being "publicly shooting your mouth off" is so ridiculous that you have said this on several other occasions, yet none of the other longtime Acc fans have chimed in to agree with you. That should tell you something. Have a nice day.
02-15-2014 01:45 PM
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ChrisLords Offline
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Post: #46
RE: ACC moving forward with 9 games. What will the SEC do?
(02-12-2014 10:09 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  I don't think FSU, Clemson, GT, Louisville, NC State, or VT would have been in favor of the idea. It's an idea that fundamentally does not appeal to those with the larger football stadiums and those dependent on a 7th home game every year. If you have a smaller football stadium or you can't fill your stadium, or your revenue is tied more to basketball you would tend to be in favor of such so I suspect Miami, BC, Syracuse, Duke, and Wake would be in favor. I doubt UVa or UNC fundamentally care, but I can see them siding with the small stadium, small crowd schools on this since it would tend to hurt VT and NC State.

The problem with Gross is that he shot his mouth off in public regarding a league matter - a big no-no in the ACC.

VT's previous athletics director Jim Weaver frequently talked about being in favor of 9 conference games. He even said he'd be in favor of 10 conference games. Citing that the were better value than the other OOC games. The new AD hasn't spoken on the topic yet.
02-15-2014 01:53 PM
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Post: #47
RE: ACC moving forward with 9 games. What will the SEC do?
(02-13-2014 07:47 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  
(02-12-2014 10:35 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(02-12-2014 10:09 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  I don't think FSU, Clemson, GT, Louisville, NC State, or VT would have been in favor of the idea. It's an idea that fundamentally does not appeal to those with the larger football stadiums and those dependent on a 7th home game every year. If you have a smaller football stadium or you can't fill your stadium, or your revenue is tied more to basketball you would tend to be in favor of such so I suspect Miami, BC, Syracuse, Duke, and Wake would be in favor. I doubt UVa or UNC fundamentally care, but I can see them siding with the small stadium, small crowd schools on this since it would tend to hurt VT and NC State.

The problem with Gross is that he shot his mouth off in public regarding a league matter - a big no-no in the ACC.

Louisville is not like those schools...they actually garner a ton of $$$ from hoops.

Louisville has a full house in football, even for dud games. So they are not in need of the 9th league game. Yes they make money on basketball and so does NC State, in fact both are very similar. NC State can sell all it's football tickets for crap state University, so can Louisville. I didn't mean to imply that having good basketball was the football policy crux, it's about what you use to gin up donations and can you fill your seats. If you fill your seats, losing the 7th game hurts. If you don't sell out in football, trading a 7th game for one half of an ACC game is not a bad deal.

Of late, UVa, and UNC have been leaving about 7,500 to 10,000 seats unsold and it's basketball that gins up their other donations. That's what I meant.

Louisville has had an uptick the last few years due to very good teams...go back a few years prior and they had 25-30k people in PJ Stadium when Kragthorpe was circling the drain. Nothing is guaranteed for attendance if Petrino strings together a few sub-par seasons.

About the email: correct me if I'm wrong but the email was sent in trust to other ACC administrators. And someone leaked the contents of the email. Right? That says a lot about ethics to me.
(This post was last modified: 02-15-2014 04:17 PM by TexanMark.)
02-15-2014 04:10 PM
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ringmaster Offline
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Post: #48
RE: ACC moving forward with 9 games. What will the SEC do?
(02-15-2014 01:45 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(02-15-2014 01:26 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  
(02-15-2014 01:17 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(02-15-2014 01:11 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Cuseroc, telephones still exist. Smart people use them. Stupid people use public email. And the FSU Board Chairman came off looking like an idiot - one the reasons he was not reappointed. Perhaps you know one of the reasons why the ACC took BC over Syracuse in 2004.

I can assure you that it had nothing to do with the nonsense that you are promoting.

Cuse, you were not very popular back in 2003.

That's why our chancellor made to motion to not vote on a 12th and to persue ND instead. As time went on it became obvious that BC was the school to reward since none of the folks had shot their mouth off in a negative way toward the ACC. Neither UNC, Duke, or NC State really wanted you.

Duke and UNC could have made sure you came in and VT stayed out, instead they stood by while a motion was made to allow Miami and VT in (2) knowing that put UVa in the political bind.

But that's all water under the bridge now.

If you want to get along inside the league, you need to learn not to speak out of turn. It's that simple and a few addition have not changed the general makeup of the league. UVa, VT, UNC, NC State, Duke, GT, Clemson, and ND don't handle their business in public. The only time FSU did, it came from someone without the authority to speak. BC has had some loose lips to be sure, but if you want something to happen, you get a couple on board with you, then you bring it up out of the public eye. If you don't schools will vote against you just to show you who has the power. You don't want that.

I have one thing to say to you and then Im done. Your stance on an private email being sent to other ACC officials as being "publicly shooting your mouth off" is so ridiculous that you have said this on several other occasions, yet none of the other longtime Acc fans have chimed in to agree with you. That should tell you something. Have a nice day.

I'll chime in. Lumberpack is right. You talk to people on the phone or in person down here when trying to do serious business. It's the gentlemanly way to conduct business. Any email sent to/from public institution can be obtained via a FOIA request or court order. That makes it off limits and a bad idea in general.
02-15-2014 04:21 PM
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Post: #49
RE: ACC moving forward with 9 games. What will the SEC do?
(02-15-2014 04:10 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  About the email: correct me if I'm wrong but the email was sent in trust to other ACC administrators. And someone leaked the contents of the email. Right? That says a lot about ethics to me.

No, I think it was a Freedom of Information Act thing.
02-15-2014 05:22 PM
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cuseroc Offline
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Post: #50
RE: ACC moving forward with 9 games. What will the SEC do?
(02-15-2014 04:21 PM)ringmaster Wrote:  
(02-15-2014 01:45 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(02-15-2014 01:26 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  
(02-15-2014 01:17 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(02-15-2014 01:11 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Cuseroc, telephones still exist. Smart people use them. Stupid people use public email. And the FSU Board Chairman came off looking like an idiot - one the reasons he was not reappointed. Perhaps you know one of the reasons why the ACC took BC over Syracuse in 2004.

I can assure you that it had nothing to do with the nonsense that you are promoting.

Cuse, you were not very popular back in 2003.

That's why our chancellor made to motion to not vote on a 12th and to persue ND instead. As time went on it became obvious that BC was the school to reward since none of the folks had shot their mouth off in a negative way toward the ACC. Neither UNC, Duke, or NC State really wanted you.

Duke and UNC could have made sure you came in and VT stayed out, instead they stood by while a motion was made to allow Miami and VT in (2) knowing that put UVa in the political bind.

But that's all water under the bridge now.

If you want to get along inside the league, you need to learn not to speak out of turn. It's that simple and a few addition have not changed the general makeup of the league. UVa, VT, UNC, NC State, Duke, GT, Clemson, and ND don't handle their business in public. The only time FSU did, it came from someone without the authority to speak. BC has had some loose lips to be sure, but if you want something to happen, you get a couple on board with you, then you bring it up out of the public eye. If you don't schools will vote against you just to show you who has the power. You don't want that.

I have one thing to say to you and then Im done. Your stance on an private email being sent to other ACC officials as being "publicly shooting your mouth off" is so ridiculous that you have said this on several other occasions, yet none of the other longtime Acc fans have chimed in to agree with you. That should tell you something. Have a nice day.

I'll chime in. Lumberpack is right. You talk to people on the phone or in person down here when trying to do serious business. It's the gentlemanly way to conduct business. Any email sent to/from public institution can be obtained via a FOIA request or court order. That makes it off limits and a bad idea in general.

I think someone had better tell the UNC officials that they should stop speaking out of turn and spouting off publicly because they sure did send a lot of very sensitive emails during realignment.

Realignment emails



I'm sure there are many other examples of ACC officials sending sensitive email content that was more sensitive than what Dr Gross sent, if I wanted to spend more than 5 minutes searching. But this link above serves its purpose well enough. The UNC folks don't seem to be very "gentlemanly"
(This post was last modified: 02-15-2014 05:51 PM by cuseroc.)
02-15-2014 05:46 PM
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Post: #51
RE: ACC moving forward with 9 games. What will the SEC do?
cuseroc - evidently you have never worked with a group of peers where the object was to conduct business in private instead of conducting it in public. Bubba is hardly an example to follow as he is new to the ACC as well and his mouth has caused problems. However, what you say to others, and what you say off the cuff is different from communication with your peers when your public statements can create unnecessary problems for your peers. Gross made a mistake. Just accept it an move on. I doubt he does it again, but it was a mistake. Bubba made a mistake when he talked to the media about wanting 100 million a year, but Swofford told him to shut up.

You can have a personal opinion. You can have a spat with someone over a single university matter. You don't discuss ACC policy in public when the topic has not been vetted and others are not given time to prepare a statement. That's just tradecraft. I realize the Big East was an "every man for himself" deal but the ACC is not. Clemson and FSU especially did not need to be put on the spot by the media.

Perhaps you took umbrage at my phraseology and perhaps that is a regional disparity in what "shoot your mouth off means" in Yankee land versus what it means in NC. In NC it means to speak out of turn, which creates a "situation" that did not need to exist. You can "shoot your mouth off here" without saying anything. I don't like writing in Chicago-standard English. It's not natural for me as I was forced to watch the Andy Griffith show and the Southern Sportsman for the last 50 years.

I guess I should have said "youse guys need to shut da **** up and not spill da beans".
02-15-2014 06:25 PM
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cuseroc Offline
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Post: #52
RE: ACC moving forward with 9 games. What will the SEC do?
(02-15-2014 06:25 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  cuseroc - evidently you have never worked with a group of peers where the object was to conduct business in private instead of conducting it in public. Bubba is hardly an example to follow as he is new to the ACC as well and his mouth has caused problems. However, what you say to others, and what you say off the cuff is different from communication with your peers when your public statements can create unnecessary problems for your peers. Gross made a mistake. Just accept it an move on. I doubt he does it again, but it was a mistake. Bubba made a mistake when he talked to the media about wanting 100 million a year, but Swofford told him to shut up.

You can have a personal opinion. You can have a spat with someone over a single university matter. You don't discuss ACC policy in public when the topic has not been vetted and others are not given time to prepare a statement. That's just tradecraft. I realize the Big East was an "every man for himself" deal but the ACC is not. Clemson and FSU especially did not need to be put on the spot by the media.

Perhaps you took umbrage at my phraseology and perhaps that is a regional disparity in what "shoot your mouth off means" in Yankee land versus what it means in NC. In NC it means to speak out of turn, which creates a "situation" that did not need to exist. You can "shoot your mouth off here" without saying anything. I don't like writing in Chicago-standard English. It's not natural for me as I was forced to watch the Andy Griffith show and the Southern Sportsman for the last 50 years.

I guess I should have said "youse guys need to shut da **** up and not spill da beans".

I work in the insurance industry, so I know as well as anyone what its like to conduct business in a private manor. But my point is not whether Dr Gross is right or wrong, but to show you that many folks in the education field whether in the south, including Acc leaders discuss sensitive matters via email, which is contrary to what you say. Doesn't matter if your opinion is that its proper or not. The fact is that business is conducted, even sensitive subjects thru email every day, even in the Acc. The examples that I linked shows this is the case.
(This post was last modified: 02-15-2014 08:21 PM by cuseroc.)
02-15-2014 08:12 PM
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Post: #53
RE: ACC moving forward with 9 games. What will the SEC do?
(02-15-2014 01:45 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(02-15-2014 01:26 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  
(02-15-2014 01:17 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(02-15-2014 01:11 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Cuseroc, telephones still exist. Smart people use them. Stupid people use public email. And the FSU Board Chairman came off looking like an idiot - one the reasons he was not reappointed. Perhaps you know one of the reasons why the ACC took BC over Syracuse in 2004.

I can assure you that it had nothing to do with the nonsense that you are promoting.

Cuse, you were not very popular back in 2003.

That's why our chancellor made to motion to not vote on a 12th and to persue ND instead. As time went on it became obvious that BC was the school to reward since none of the folks had shot their mouth off in a negative way toward the ACC. Neither UNC, Duke, or NC State really wanted you.

Duke and UNC could have made sure you came in and VT stayed out, instead they stood by while a motion was made to allow Miami and VT in (2) knowing that put UVa in the political bind.

But that's all water under the bridge now.

If you want to get along inside the league, you need to learn not to speak out of turn. It's that simple and a few addition have not changed the general makeup of the league. UVa, VT, UNC, NC State, Duke, GT, Clemson, and ND don't handle their business in public. The only time FSU did, it came from someone without the authority to speak. BC has had some loose lips to be sure, but if you want something to happen, you get a couple on board with you, then you bring it up out of the public eye. If you don't schools will vote against you just to show you who has the power. You don't want that.

I have one thing to say to you and then Im done. Your stance on an private email being sent to other ACC officials as being "publicly shooting your mouth off" is so ridiculous that you have said this on several other occasions, yet none of the other longtime Acc fans have chimed in to agree with you. That should tell you something. Have a nice day.

I'm a longtime ACC fan, but I'm keeping my mouth shut and my fingers silent because, unlike Lumber, I don't have the academic connections and piles of historical knowledge that he has.
(This post was last modified: 02-15-2014 09:49 PM by ecuacc4ever.)
02-15-2014 09:48 PM
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Post: #54
RE: ACC moving forward with 9 games. What will the SEC do?
(02-15-2014 09:48 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  
(02-15-2014 01:45 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(02-15-2014 01:26 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  
(02-15-2014 01:17 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(02-15-2014 01:11 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Cuseroc, telephones still exist. Smart people use them. Stupid people use public email. And the FSU Board Chairman came off looking like an idiot - one the reasons he was not reappointed. Perhaps you know one of the reasons why the ACC took BC over Syracuse in 2004.

I can assure you that it had nothing to do with the nonsense that you are promoting.

Cuse, you were not very popular back in 2003.

That's why our chancellor made to motion to not vote on a 12th and to persue ND instead. As time went on it became obvious that BC was the school to reward since none of the folks had shot their mouth off in a negative way toward the ACC. Neither UNC, Duke, or NC State really wanted you.

Duke and UNC could have made sure you came in and VT stayed out, instead they stood by while a motion was made to allow Miami and VT in (2) knowing that put UVa in the political bind.

But that's all water under the bridge now.

If you want to get along inside the league, you need to learn not to speak out of turn. It's that simple and a few addition have not changed the general makeup of the league. UVa, VT, UNC, NC State, Duke, GT, Clemson, and ND don't handle their business in public. The only time FSU did, it came from someone without the authority to speak. BC has had some loose lips to be sure, but if you want something to happen, you get a couple on board with you, then you bring it up out of the public eye. If you don't schools will vote against you just to show you who has the power. You don't want that.

I have one thing to say to you and then Im done. Your stance on an private email being sent to other ACC officials as being "publicly shooting your mouth off" is so ridiculous that you have said this on several other occasions, yet none of the other longtime Acc fans have chimed in to agree with you. That should tell you something. Have a nice day.

I'm a longtime ACC fan, but I'm keeping my mouth shut and my fingers silent because, unlike Lumber, I don't have the academic connections and piles of historical knowledge that he has.

Sarcasm, right?
02-15-2014 10:07 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #55
RE: ACC moving forward with 9 games. What will the SEC do?
(02-15-2014 06:25 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  cuseroc - evidently you have never worked with a group of peers where the object was to conduct business in private instead of conducting it in public. Bubba is hardly an example to follow as he is new to the ACC as well and his mouth has caused problems. However, what you say to others, and what you say off the cuff is different from communication with your peers when your public statements can create unnecessary problems for your peers. Gross made a mistake. Just accept it an move on. I doubt he does it again, but it was a mistake.

Just an FYI, even though email communications can become public through freedom of information, or thru subpoenas if a court case, that in no way makes it the equivalent of a public statement. Not remotely. Cuseroc is correct. Also trying to avoid the FOI by using private email to conduct public business is an absolute no-no.
02-15-2014 10:24 PM
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Post: #56
RE: ACC moving forward with 9 games. What will the SEC do?
Couple quick points:

The ACC pursued Syracuse from the time it pursued FSU. Timing was bad then. When Miami joined the ACC and the ACC turned to BC and SU, the ACC was told they would have one shot to get SU into the ACC and they would go. VATech pulled some strings to get UVA to vote no. Life happens. This is well documented by the players (ADs, School records) and not some garbage just made up for internet fan fights. If you have documentation by the people in the rooms during these discussion, I will read it, but the documentation by the people in that I have viewed to date agree with my simplified version.

As to the public comments floating around, everyone likes to blame someone for shooting off their mouth. At some point, issues must be recorded. For those who think they are in the know, notes of calls are usually kept but executives and discussions are memorialized at the time of the discussions. No one in the ACC was shooting off their mouth over the 9-game schedule issue. If events are not recorded immediately a specter of self dealing and "revisionism" is assumed and can be far more damaging than a documentation that may be slightly embarrassing now.

Finally, pretending there is a major North South cultural difference in business practices and that business is done differently is really not useful. Business is business and is done in a rather uniform manner in the U.S. Especially so with any state run agency, which most of the ACC schools are. Playing to stereotypes benefits nobody.
02-15-2014 11:21 PM
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Post: #57
RE: ACC moving forward with 9 games. What will the SEC do?
Oh I'm sure a majority of ADs want it. But I'm also fairly sure FSU, GT, Clemson, and probably Louisville are not among them. If you go 9, you effectively end all non-cupcake OOC games for those schools. It will be SEC rival ... cupcake ... then ACC. The end. And I'm sorry, but for the football "old guard" of the ACC south of the NC/SC state line ... we'd do better at the gate and on TV by playing some lesser SEC team than we would playing anybody north of Virginia not named Notre Dame.

Do the silly 8+1 instead. It is the best of both worlds. You need 5 more to go with the existing in state rivalries. Alrighty, here ya go:

Low Hanging Fruit:
Wake Forest vs Vanderbilt*
Virginia Tech vs Tennessee

Some Difficulties (Existing Pairings):
Miami vs Florida
North Carolina vs South Carolina

Could Work, But Untested:
NC State vs Auburn


* - Played on rivalry week


I'd recommend all the non-rivalry week games be played in that early week when like Iowa plays Iowa State and Colorado plays Colorado State ... so you'd have two rivalry batches. It gets REALLY difficult to find a satisfactory pairing when you get to #5.
02-17-2014 01:29 AM
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Bull_In_Exile Offline
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Post: #58
RE: ACC moving forward with 9 games. What will the SEC do?
(02-15-2014 12:57 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(02-15-2014 11:55 AM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  VT is not new to the ACC. You think they are new because you are only looking at the last couple of decade. They are not "new", they are old. We also know that it's a Yankee's tendency to say what's on their mind, to be blunt. Personally I like that trait instead of all the southern hem-hawing, pleasantries, etc., etc. But when it comes to business in the South, you surface ideas carefully, obtain a couple of folks that agree, and then raise it in private. The ACC operates like a Country Club, not a NY Board Room. You will see Notre Dame and Louisville fall right into line with that method of operation.

You can say anything in private here, but not in public. It's hypocritical but that's how this area rolls - we paper over our differences. Syracuse made the mistake of using public email, when a phone call or a meeting at the airport would have worked. He knows better for the future.

There is an airport in Greensboro - Piedmont Triad. He needs to get to know it, as well as the airport in Greenville, SC. Buffalo might work well for Syracuse, Pitt, and ND.

So your thinking is that every time one of the ACC AD's has an idea that he thinks will improve the conference that he should actually get on a plane and make a trip to visit the other 14 AD's to get their thoughts on the matter rather than using email? I can guarantee you that that's not the way business is done anywhere, not even in your precious south.

Face to face conversations by state university officials do not have to divulged via a FOIA request.
02-17-2014 03:33 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #59
RE: ACC moving forward with 9 games. What will the SEC do?
(02-17-2014 01:29 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Oh I'm sure a majority of ADs want it. But I'm also fairly sure FSU, GT, Clemson, and probably Louisville are not among them. If you go 9, you effectively end all non-cupcake OOC games for those schools. It will be SEC rival ... cupcake ... then ACC. The end. And I'm sorry, but for the football "old guard" of the ACC south of the NC/SC state line ... we'd do better at the gate and on TV by playing some lesser SEC team than we would playing anybody north of Virginia not named Notre Dame.

Do the silly 8+1 instead. It is the best of both worlds. You need 5 more to go with the existing in state rivalries. Alrighty, here ya go:

Low Hanging Fruit:
Wake Forest vs Vanderbilt*
Virginia Tech vs Tennessee

Some Difficulties (Existing Pairings):
Miami vs Florida
North Carolina vs South Carolina

Could Work, But Untested:
NC State vs Auburn

* - Played on rivalry week
If you want to break up the Vanderbilt/Tennessee rivalry week game, you have to do it in pairs (not to mention you just took away Wake Forest's partner as well) so how about this instead:

Wake vs. Vandy
NC St vs. Tenn.

Quote:I'd recommend all the non-rivalry week games be played in that early week when like Iowa plays Iowa State and Colorado plays Colorado State ... so you'd have two rivalry batches. It gets REALLY difficult to find a satisfactory pairing when you get to #5.

I think another objection should be to replace the Miami/Pitt game with 2 OOC rivalry games. To do that, you'd need yet more cooperation and, as you point out, it might be hard to find 2 SEC teams, so how about...

Miami vs. Oklahoma, Texas, etc. (rotate)
Pitt vs. WVU
02-17-2014 09:29 AM
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HtownOrange Offline
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Post: #60
RE: ACC moving forward with 9 games. What will the SEC do?
(02-17-2014 03:33 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  
(02-15-2014 12:57 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(02-15-2014 11:55 AM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  VT is not new to the ACC. You think they are new because you are only looking at the last couple of decade. They are not "new", they are old. We also know that it's a Yankee's tendency to say what's on their mind, to be blunt. Personally I like that trait instead of all the southern hem-hawing, pleasantries, etc., etc. But when it comes to business in the South, you surface ideas carefully, obtain a couple of folks that agree, and then raise it in private. The ACC operates like a Country Club, not a NY Board Room. You will see Notre Dame and Louisville fall right into line with that method of operation.

You can say anything in private here, but not in public. It's hypocritical but that's how this area rolls - we paper over our differences. Syracuse made the mistake of using public email, when a phone call or a meeting at the airport would have worked. He knows better for the future.

There is an airport in Greensboro - Piedmont Triad. He needs to get to know it, as well as the airport in Greenville, SC. Buffalo might work well for Syracuse, Pitt, and ND.

So your thinking is that every time one of the ACC AD's has an idea that he thinks will improve the conference that he should actually get on a plane and make a trip to visit the other 14 AD's to get their thoughts on the matter rather than using email? I can guarantee you that that's not the way business is done anywhere, not even in your precious south.

Face to face conversations by state university officials do not have to divulged via a FOIA request.

Most exe utives record their impressions as soon as possible following face to face dealings. This is CYA policy and also keeps things clear and in perspective. Also, many of the memorialization are sent between the face to face parties to ensur e both parties have the same understanding. These records are subject to FOIA.

I read thesd types of documents frequently. I can assure you that experienced execs have very good records and newbies are petty and foolish iin their side comments.
02-17-2014 09:44 AM
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