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(06-16-2014 05:59 PM)arrows80 Wrote:  Fact is, many think Buffalo is going to struggle to replicate last year's results - the first good season Quinn has had as a HC. We shall see.

Very possible.

But - when is Enos going to have first good season as HC?

Quinn has increased win total every year as header of Bulls. Won 8 last year. Enos' best is 7.

(06-16-2014 06:02 PM)MajorHoople Wrote:  

(06-16-2014 05:59 PM)arrows80 Wrote:  Fact is, many think Buffalo is going to struggle to replicate last year's results - the first good season Quinn has had as a HC. We shall see.

Very possible.

But - when is Enos going to have first good season as HC?

7-6 with a bowl win (following a 3-9 season) isn't so bad.

That aside, I don't see a case for hiring Quinn (in particular, though your point regarding "the tree" has merit) over Enos.

Though I don't expect it, this year's schedule affords Enos the possibility of getting to 8-9 wins. Dippy wants to see Enos go 6-6 so that he may be retained, and I suspect he may get his wish.

(06-16-2014 06:02 PM)MajorHoople Wrote:  

(06-16-2014 05:59 PM)arrows80 Wrote:  Fact is, many think Buffalo is going to struggle to replicate last year's results - the first good season Quinn has had as a HC. We shall see.

Quinn has increased win total every year as header of Bulls.

Would you be happy if peejay won 1, 3, and 4 games in his first three seasons as WMU HC? I suspect not.

(06-16-2014 06:10 PM)arrows80 Wrote:  Would you be happy if peejay won 1, 3, and 4 games in his first three seasons as WMU HC? I suspect not.

Point is - Quinn probably would have done better because of continuity than Enos has.

But if you're happy with state of CMU program compared to when Quinn was there under Kelly and Jones and what could have been...hey, have a soda at The Embers or Coral Gables on me.

(06-16-2014 06:20 PM)MajorHoople Wrote:  

(06-16-2014 06:10 PM)arrows80 Wrote:  Would you be happy if peejay won 1, 3, and 4 games in his first three seasons as WMU HC? I suspect not.

Point is - Quinn probably would have done better because of continuity than Enos has.

Point is, that is pure speculation on your part, and nothing in Quinn's results say otherwise.

(06-16-2014 06:30 PM)arrows80 Wrote:  Point is, that is pure speculation on your part, and nothing in Quinn's results say otherwise.

Maybe, but Danny Boy's results say otherwise too...

The irony of this conversation is that the only place he can have it is on this board. This kind of back and forth wouldn't fall within the rules on Slappy Talk Illi.

(06-16-2014 05:59 PM)arrows80 Wrote:  

(06-16-2014 05:50 PM)MajorHoople Wrote:  

(06-16-2014 05:44 PM)arrows80 Wrote:  Uh, are you referring to Jeff Quinn? I'll pass.

Fair enough, if you like Enos better.

I think him carrying on program Kelly-Butch had going would have been better than what you've got (and he would've done better than he has at Buffalo - although now that he's been given time to build it: BU is ahead of CMU, it appears).

Ryan Radcliff, with next to 0 game experience, was going to be the CMU QB in 2010 no matter who the coach was. Radcliff (like Rush last year) had to play before he was truly ready, and it showed in the results.

Fact is, many think Buffalo is going to struggle to replicate last year's results - the first good season Quinn has had as a HC. We shall see.

You don't think Westendorp could have ran Kelly/Jones' offense?

I know he flopped in college, but he seemed like a good fit coming out of high school. After the coaching change it was a horrible fit for him IMO.

Butch was a coattail rider. He won with BK's players both in Peeville and in Cinci. He recruited Westendorp who couldn't hit a stationary tire at ten yards. Butch didn't leave much for Enos, and Enos didn't do much to improve on that.

Enos has such an eye for talent that when he missed a gimmy in Titus Davis's brother.

(06-16-2014 07:29 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:  Butch was a coattail rider. He won with BK's players both in Peeville and in Cinci. He recruited Westendorp who couldn't hit a stationary tire at ten yards. Butch didn't leave much for Enos, and Enos didn't do much to improve on that.

Enos has such an eye for talent that when he missed a gimmy in Titus Davis's brother.

He couldn't do squat in the new offense that Enos went with. I remember his highlight tape from high school. Kid looked pretty darn good. He should have transferred to a different school once he found out the spread was being ditched.

We'll never know what AJ could have done. Naturally Dip has drawn a conclusion based on less than a half of playing time. That certainly seems fair.

I find all of the discussion regarding our offense when DL was under center fascinating. "Enos abandoned the spread, he's the worst HC ever, aaarrrgghhhhh!"

Tell me, what is a "spread offense?". What type of personnel is required to run it? If "the spread" is the be-all of offenses, why doesn't everyone run it?

Many people (especially on our board) who want Enos hung for changing the offense don't seem to understand that the personnel wasn't there in 2010 to run a wide open offenses, especially at the QB position.

(06-17-2014 09:59 AM)arrows80 Wrote:  We'll never know what AJ could have done. Naturally Dip has drawn a conclusion based on less than a half of playing time. That certainly seems fair.

I find all of the discussion regarding our offense when DL was under center fascinating. "Enos abandoned the spread, he's the worst HC ever, aaarrrgghhhhh!"

Tell me, what is a "spread offense?". What type of personnel is required to run it? If "the spread" is the be-all of offenses, why doesn't everyone run it?

Many people (especially on our board) who want Enos hung for changing the offense don't seem to understand that the personnel wasn't there in 2010 to run a wide open offenses, especially at the QB position.

I disagree. Kelly and Jones recruited kids to run that offense (including Westendorp). They might not have been guys like DL or Brown, but they were there to run the spread (defined by a wide open offense with a dual threat QB that exploits mismatches IMO). Radcliff didn't fit that description.

I don't see it as Enos abandoned the spread. More like your admin abandoned it. As mentioned above, they had at least one choice to continue down that path in regards to system. They went the opposite direction. Frankly, it was a head scratcher IMO.

I suppose I look at it like this. Westendorp never got a chance to run the Kelly/Jones offense. But I refuse to believe that he couldn't throw the ball. Maybe not like DL...but comparable to Lynch or Harnish?

Wait, changing direction in your offense from the predecessor is a head scratcher?

(06-17-2014 10:15 AM)DesertBronco Wrote:  Wait, changing direction in your offense from the predecessor is a head scratcher?

Considering the success CMU had with Kelly and Jones...I would say it's a head scratcher. Why not continue down the same coaching tree if possible?

Oh so it has nothing to do with the person and all about the lineage?

(06-17-2014 12:38 PM)DesertBronco Wrote:  Oh so it has nothing to do with the person and all about the lineage?

Certainly not ALL about the lineage. But you know that...and you know that I know that as well. Maybe CMU didn't like their choices to "carry on the torch"...that a perfectly good reason for choosing a different path. But I don't have insider knowledge like that. So from my point of view, it's a head scratcher.

I knew what you meant? Not at all, your reasoning is a head scratcher most of the time.

(06-17-2014 01:29 PM)DesertBronco Wrote:  I knew what you meant? Not at all, your reasoning is a head scratcher most of the time.

Sure you did. And you questioned it because if you didn't, it would be admitting that picking Enos was a head scratcher. And you would never do that because you have a soft spot for the guy.

(06-17-2014 09:59 AM)arrows80 Wrote:  We'll never know what AJ could have done. Naturally Dip has drawn a conclusion based on less than a half of playing time. That certainly seems fair.

I find all of the discussion regarding our offense when DL was under center fascinating. "Enos abandoned the spread, he's the worst HC ever, aaarrrgghhhhh!"

Tell me, what is a "spread offense?". What type of personnel is required to run it? If "the spread" is the be-all of offenses, why doesn't everyone run it?

Many people (especially on our board) who want Enos hung for changing the offense don't seem to understand that the personnel wasn't there in 2010 to run a wide open offenses, especially at the QB position.

Actually Kelly ran more of a spread option when he had DL. Enos used 4 receiver sets with both RR and Rush. So he still uses a version of the spread.