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Fantastic effort by pj, and I am back to being excited about football. I have been thinking, wow, this is too good to be true . . . . . . .and then I thought, "oh no; I hope everything is legit". I am very confident everything was done within the rules, but has someone seen anyone question our ethics in getting all theses guys?

(02-05-2014 07:53 PM)brovol Wrote:  Fantastic effort by pj, and I am back to being excited about football. I have been thinking, wow, this is too good to be true . . . . . . .and then I thought, "oh no; I hope everything is legit". I am very confident everything was done within the rules, but has someone seen anyone question our ethics in getting all theses guys?

Not much you can do at this level that's unethical. It's not like we can get their parents high paying do nothing jobs, or pay them thousands under the table. Most of these kids had early BCS offers and later became Plan B's. Kids want PT, and want to play for someone they feel comfortable with. In addition, Fleck is taking advantage of our proximity to Chicago, Detroit, and Northern Indiana. The Michigan connection is really nothing more than Fleck being a better salesman than Enos and EMU's latest coach. I believe had Cubit put the same focus on Michigan recruits he would have won most of those battles with Enos. Not sure he would have with Kelly and Jones, who were pretty dynamic salesmen.

For the most part I doubt mid-majors have the kind of hidden big money boosters to grease the skids like in the SEC. Usually violations at this level are secondary, like buying the kid a coke or something when you shouldn't have. But......weirder things have happened.

I agree with both of you. I do feel good about this.

Fleck is young, and has great energy. He is willing to beat the path and pound the doors. That work and confidence/courage is critical; and then he also has a style and polish. Great salesmen have these things. PJ is taking advantage of the advantages he has; including his youth. He understands what young folks like.

Boy do I hope he gets the boys playing well next season. I would love to see a radical turnaround.

I sent PJ an email last season, during the period when everyone was most down, and told him to keep his chin up. He sent me a thoughtful response the next day. I am not sure he can coach; but i sure hope he achieves success; and soon. And I know that is true even with those of you that have been (justifiably) critical.

Quote:I believe had Cubit put the same focus on Michigan recruits he would have won most of those battles with Enos. Not sure he would have with Kelly and Jones, who were pretty dynamic salesmen.

Great point. Bill faced some stiff competition around here back then.

(02-05-2014 07:53 PM)brovol Wrote:  Fantastic effort by pj, and I am back to being excited about football. I have been thinking, wow, this is too good to be true . . . . . . .and then I thought, "oh no; I hope everything is legit". I am very confident everything was done within the rules, but has someone seen anyone question our ethics in getting all theses guys?

Not sure how someone would "see anyone question our ethics". That would require someone privy to the unethical behavior, and then openly betray that trust in real time.

You of all people know that it doesn't work that way. If there is something stinky behavior wise involving money or an unethical benefit, it usually takes time.

Took years to realize that the IT off shoring companies were pervasively buying their support contracts with the old CIO's around the country.

Or was this just an attempt at a rhetorical with the hopeful proper response?

Fleck is relentless on the recruiting trail. I got this from someone that recruited against him. And it wasn't said to me in a negative way. The guy truly connects with kids and maintains relationships, and frankly outworks other coaches on the recruiting trail.

(02-05-2014 11:47 PM)DesertBronco Wrote:  

(02-05-2014 07:53 PM)brovol Wrote:  Fantastic effort by pj, and I am back to being excited about football. I have been thinking, wow, this is too good to be true . . . . . . .and then I thought, "oh no; I hope everything is legit". I am very confident everything was done within the rules, but has someone seen anyone question our ethics in getting all theses guys?

Not sure how someone would "see anyone question our ethics". That would require someone privy to the unethical behavior, and then openly betray that trust in real time.

You of all people know that it doesn't work that way. If there is something stinky behavior wise involving money or an unethical benefit, it usually takes time.

Took years to realize that the IT off shoring companies were pervasively buying their support contracts with the old CIO's around the country.

Or was this just an attempt at a rhetorical with the hopeful proper response?

I agree with you DB. Entirely. I certainly dont suggest that there must of, or even could have been foul play. In fact, I am very confident there wasnt. I was wondering if anyone has heard any suggestion that a young coach, in a non-BCS program, after coming off a bad season, had to have cheated to get a class like this. Something from a CMU forum perhaps.

The programs that have the means and resourses to buy recruits are generally out of our league; litterally and figuratively. Unfortunatly, we dont have anyone with the "committment, resourses, or ethics" comparable to SMU in the 80's. The MAC has generally been a legit conference; and primarily because the focus of the institutions has been with academics before athletics. I am proud of that.

. . . . . . but I must confess, I am also proud of this class ranking.

(02-05-2014 08:37 PM)brovol Wrote:  I sent PJ an email last season, during the period when everyone was most down, and told him to keep his chin up. He sent me a thoughtful response the next day. I am not sure he can coach; but i sure hope he achieves success; and soon. And I know that is true even with those of you that have been (justifiably) critical.

Well said, Brovol. In the end we all want WMU to succeed.

(02-06-2014 03:25 AM)Stampede your face!! Wrote:  Fleck is relentless on the recruiting trail. I got this from someone that recruited against him. And it wasn't said to me in a negative way. The guy truly connects with kids and maintains relationships, and frankly outworks other coaches on the recruiting trail.

As long as he does it within the framework that the NCAA outlines, then we're good.

Gene Cavich back a couple decades ago was the "D" coordinator for Elliot Uzelac--sp-at WMU, and a Western grad.. I asked him once if there was hanky panky in MAC recruiting ??? He laughed and said we don't have enough money to cheat....
Every year around this Feb 5th., I recall that quote and laugh out loud...
I also think his comment is true today.....Not a lot of back door crap in the MAC.....

(02-05-2014 11:43 PM)DesertBronco Wrote:  

Quote:I believe had Cubit put the same focus on Michigan recruits he would have won most of those battles with Enos. Not sure he would have with Kelly and Jones, who were pretty dynamic salesmen.

Great point. Bill faced some stiff competition around here back then.

Cubit's pitch was more about playing time, their education, and a straight forward assessment that nothing will be given to you everything will be earned. Smart parents saw his fatherly approach as refreshing. Not so smart parents wanted guarantees of PT, instant star status, etc. That was not his style.

Kelly, Jones, and PJ are very good at blowing smoke up their azz. Unfortunately this works for both smart parents and kids, and the not so smart ones. It's style over substance. It's why he lost the Ismail kid to UCF and Oleary. It's why he lost Kirk Cousins to MSU. He was brutally honest, while UCF and MSU blew smoke up their butts. In MSU's case they were correct.

Hawkins recruiting approach is similar to Cubit's. He's honest, and makes no guarantees. It's worked pretty well for him.

As long as PJ can dominate the other MAC schools in MI, and get some good players out of Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio, he will have success. If, like Cubit, he is dividing up the MI talent between us, UT, CMU, BSU, and others, then like Cubit, he will have to work fertile grounds like FL, TX, CA, OH, and PA to get the talent to compete.

I believe PJ and Reynolds have laid a solid foundation with MI HS coaches to beat out other MAC schools for high MAC and 2nd tier BIG talent.

Is this thread really serious? Wow.

What a slap in the face to not only the coaching staff, but to the kids who earned these scholarships through a lot of hard work and are now proud Broncos.

Par for the course around here I suppose. This place just can't accept "good" news. Funny how silent the message boards were yesterday on what should have been a day of celebration in Bronco country.

Heck of an accomplishment by the coaching staff to reel in the top class (unanimously) in the MAC -- maybe even the best historically. Went 27/27 on NLI's. Not one kid de-committed on signing day. That's a rare feat, especially when you consider WMU went 1-11 this past season.

But carry on... P.J. stinks, he can't coach, fire Kathy, it's no guarantee these kids will pan out, etc...


It SHOULD be a great day to be a Bronco.

Wow, BB13. I have to ask, are you reading the same thread as the rest of us????????

I see nothing here about, PJ stinks. No mention at all regarding Kathy. No discussion on the quality of kids. And in case you missed it, there are a number of threads with a lot of posts about the great recruiting class that were posted to yesterday.

Get real.

Yes it was a great day for recruiting.

A good start on wtf, hopefully. That part of it has to be proved on the field.

Push comes to shove, it all has to be proved on the field.

I'm going with 8

Quote:there are a number of threads with a lot of posts about the great recruiting class that were posted to yesterday.

Get real.

You mean all ONE threads?

Yeah...

Thread #1: "Great day, BUT...."

Thread #2: "Everyone signed"

Thread #3: "Great day, BUT..."

...and the "Fire Fleck" thread was once again activated (a joke that it's even pinned)

Again, pretty quiet day overall yesterday. Not surprising, but that's the way it is here.

I get it. Not many of you like P.J.

But it's okay to celebrate WMU accomplishments when they happen like this. Some did, to their credit. Some never will because it goes against the narrative/agenda. Too bad.

Here is the way I look at it BB13.

The silence or lack of overwhelming celebration comes from a few different angles. At least speaking for myself.

First, pretty much everyone, including those of us that don't care for PJ, commended him on this recruiting class and had nothing but positives to say about it. What more do you want us to do beyond that? Have a parade or something? To be honest, after saying its an awesome class, there really wasn't much more to say.

Second, I have expressed this opinion a number of times and will do so again right now.....in fact I have had this same discussion with at least 5 people today. The result of this class will not be seen for most likely 2 seasons. If we expect the fact that WMU signed a great class yesterday to translate into a boatload of wins on the field next fall, you aren't living in the real world. Jamie Wilson and Corey Davis are 1 player that shined as freshman in each of the last 2 seasons. You are NOT going to get 15 of the kids that signed yesterday to be stars next year. Might there be 1 or 2? Possibly, but we wont TRULY know the impact of yesterdays class for another 2 to 3 seasons.

Finally, for me personally, yesterday was almost anticlimactic. We have been hearing and reading about The Greatest Recruiting Class in WMU and MAC History for 6 months now. I expected all of these kids to sign their NLI yesterday.


Look at it in a different light BB13. Maybe we weren't holding parades. Having a late night bender at Waldos. Or giving PJ the public slurpee that you would like us to. But at least for one day, we weren't mercilessly thrashing him either. That in itself could and should almost be celebrated as a positive.

I'm pleased to see the hard work on the recruiting trail pay off. We know for sure that PJ and staff can recruit. Now we wait and see if he and his staff can A: get those that are ready to contribute to perform at a higher level than last season and B: develop these youngsters in the coming years.

(02-06-2014 04:27 PM)WheresWaldo42 Wrote:  The result of this class will not be seen for most likely 2 seasons.