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TCU AD tells story of how Frogs joined the B12
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Hokie4Skins Offline
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Post: #61
RE: TCU AD tells story of how Frogs joined the B12
(02-06-2014 02:15 PM)jgkojak Wrote:  
(02-06-2014 12:40 PM)S11 Wrote:  Missouri- Basically they had almost been left out the year before and any thought of staying went out the window when OU's David Boren flirted with the PAC. If anyone gets the blame for that one it's the okies.

A&M- LHN concerns over HS programming is often cited but even the Texags guy Liucci quoted some of the A&M higher ups as saying they knew it wouldn't end up happening in a radio interview from the time. Fact is they looked like everyone else in 2010, fanbase had a love affair with the SEC, and over the final year in the Big 12 they moved to elevate their brand and competitive advantages.

So if there was actually some pro-active leadership going on - its likely we wouldn't have lost Colorado and could have saved Nebraska- and only losing Mizzou and A&M - then you really could have added TCU and BYU and had a decent 12 team league.

You weren't keeping Colorado.
02-06-2014 02:23 PM
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RE: TCU AD tells story of how Frogs joined the B12
(02-06-2014 02:23 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  
(02-06-2014 02:15 PM)jgkojak Wrote:  
(02-06-2014 12:40 PM)S11 Wrote:  Missouri- Basically they had almost been left out the year before and any thought of staying went out the window when OU's David Boren flirted with the PAC. If anyone gets the blame for that one it's the okies.

A&M- LHN concerns over HS programming is often cited but even the Texags guy Liucci quoted some of the A&M higher ups as saying they knew it wouldn't end up happening in a radio interview from the time. Fact is they looked like everyone else in 2010, fanbase had a love affair with the SEC, and over the final year in the Big 12 they moved to elevate their brand and competitive advantages.

So if there was actually some pro-active leadership going on - its likely we wouldn't have lost Colorado and could have saved Nebraska- and only losing Mizzou and A&M - then you really could have added TCU and BYU and had a decent 12 team league.

You weren't keeping Colorado.

The moment the Pac decided again to go to 12, Colorado was gone.
Missouri is the one that might have been kept, but that was on OU flirting with the Pac in 2011.
02-06-2014 02:43 PM
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Post: #63
RE: TCU AD tells story of how Frogs joined the B12
(02-06-2014 02:15 PM)jgkojak Wrote:  
(02-06-2014 12:40 PM)S11 Wrote:  Missouri- Basically they had almost been left out the year before and any thought of staying went out the window when OU's David Boren flirted with the PAC. If anyone gets the blame for that one it's the okies.

A&M- LHN concerns over HS programming is often cited but even the Texags guy Liucci quoted some of the A&M higher ups as saying they knew it wouldn't end up happening in a radio interview from the time. Fact is they looked like everyone else in 2010, fanbase had a love affair with the SEC, and over the final year in the Big 12 they moved to elevate their brand and competitive advantages.

So if there was actually some pro-active leadership going on - its likely we wouldn't have lost Colorado and could have saved Nebraska- and only losing Mizzou and A&M - then you really could have added TCU and BYU and had a decent 12 team league.

CU was gone as soon as MO Gov opened his trap. Proactive leadership wouldn't have fixed that.

Had we held NU but lost CU we might have kept right on chugging with BYU as a fill in for CU but it's hard to say exactly what would happen. So much depends on when X happened with Y school.
02-06-2014 02:46 PM
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RE: TCU AD tells story of how Frogs joined the B12
Keeping NU would have been unlikely. They were unhappy but there was really no concession to give them (prop 8 wasnt coming back) so its very likely they still end up in the B1G (remember, B1G saying they would grow by at least 2 and as many as 4 is what started the first wave of this round of realignment)

Honestly there's nothing the B12 could have given Colorado, A&M or Nebraska to stay because those moves were as much about going home culturally as they were about anything else.

Mizzou might still be there if VT had said yes instead of deciding to stay in the ACC.
(This post was last modified: 02-06-2014 03:29 PM by 10thMountain.)
02-06-2014 03:23 PM
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Post: #65
RE: TCU AD tells story of how Frogs joined the B12
(02-06-2014 02:23 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  
(02-06-2014 02:15 PM)jgkojak Wrote:  
(02-06-2014 12:40 PM)S11 Wrote:  Missouri- Basically they had almost been left out the year before and any thought of staying went out the window when OU's David Boren flirted with the PAC. If anyone gets the blame for that one it's the okies.

A&M- LHN concerns over HS programming is often cited but even the Texags guy Liucci quoted some of the A&M higher ups as saying they knew it wouldn't end up happening in a radio interview from the time. Fact is they looked like everyone else in 2010, fanbase had a love affair with the SEC, and over the final year in the Big 12 they moved to elevate their brand and competitive advantages.

So if there was actually some pro-active leadership going on - its likely we wouldn't have lost Colorado and could have saved Nebraska- and only losing Mizzou and A&M - then you really could have added TCU and BYU and had a decent 12 team league.

You weren't keeping Colorado.

Why was losing Colorado a big deal anyway? Unless the Big XII wanted to further expand to the west they might have been useful, but my sense was that there more more eyes turned eastward.
02-06-2014 03:35 PM
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RE: TCU AD tells story of how Frogs joined the B12
(02-06-2014 12:32 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  
(02-06-2014 12:15 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  Oh but They are extremely happy at 10. Guess it does make it easier to break up the next round of PAC, B1G, or SEC invites come out.
IMO 10 is the perfect number. With 9 conference football games, you play everyone in the conference during football season, and with 18 conference basketball games you play everyone home and home during basketball season. B12 schools are earning as much as schools from any other conference, if not more. The B12 is one of the best football conferences in the nation, and is currently the top rated RPI basketball conference in the nation. What's not to like?

I think 9 is the perfect number. Balanced 4 home, 4 away in football, with 4 slots left for OOC games. A 16 game double round robin in hoops. And one less member to split the pie with.
02-06-2014 03:38 PM
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RE: TCU AD tells story of how Frogs joined the B12
9 is perfect for scheduling, but unrealistic in today's TV driven environment.
02-06-2014 03:51 PM
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RE: TCU AD tells story of how Frogs joined the B12
(02-06-2014 03:23 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Keeping NU would have been unlikely. They were unhappy but there was really no concession to give them (prop 8 wasnt coming back) so its very likely they still end up in the B1G (remember, B1G saying they would grow by at least 2 and as many as 4 is what started the first wave of this round of realignment)

Honestly there's nothing the B12 could have given Colorado, A&M or Nebraska to stay because those moves were as much about going home culturally as they were about anything else.

Mizzou might still be there if VT had said yes instead of deciding to stay in the ACC.

I disagree on Nebraska. I don't feel that they would have gone if the domino effect hadn't set 6 others looking first. Perlman's own words seem to support that. Fact is instead of roping everyone on board with either expansion (Utah, BYU, Pitt, UL, WV, etc) or a league network w/o UT, or equal tv revenue sharing Beebe was unable to get anything through.
(This post was last modified: 02-06-2014 04:24 PM by 1845 Bear.)
02-06-2014 04:18 PM
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Post: #69
RE: TCU AD tells story of how Frogs joined the B12
(02-06-2014 04:18 PM)S11 Wrote:  
(02-06-2014 03:23 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Keeping NU would have been unlikely. They were unhappy but there was really no concession to give them (prop 8 wasnt coming back) so its very likely they still end up in the B1G (remember, B1G saying they would grow by at least 2 and as many as 4 is what started the first wave of this round of realignment)

Honestly there's nothing the B12 could have given Colorado, A&M or Nebraska to stay because those moves were as much about going home culturally as they were about anything else.

Mizzou might still be there if VT had said yes instead of deciding to stay in the ACC.

I disagree on Nebraska. I don't feel that they would have gone if the domino effect hadn't set 6 others looking first. Perlman's own words seem to support that. Fact is instead of roping everyone on board with either expansion (Utah, BYU, Pitt, UL, WV, etc) or a league network w/o UT, or equal tv revenue sharing Beebe was unable to get anything through.

Nebraska would only have stayed in the Big 12 if they didn't receive an invitation from the Big Ten. They wouldn't have turned down the Big Ten, no matter what was happening in the Big 12.
02-06-2014 04:33 PM
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RE: TCU AD tells story of how Frogs joined the B12
(02-06-2014 04:33 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-06-2014 04:18 PM)S11 Wrote:  
(02-06-2014 03:23 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Keeping NU would have been unlikely. They were unhappy but there was really no concession to give them (prop 8 wasnt coming back) so its very likely they still end up in the B1G (remember, B1G saying they would grow by at least 2 and as many as 4 is what started the first wave of this round of realignment)

Honestly there's nothing the B12 could have given Colorado, A&M or Nebraska to stay because those moves were as much about going home culturally as they were about anything else.

Mizzou might still be there if VT had said yes instead of deciding to stay in the ACC.

I disagree on Nebraska. I don't feel that they would have gone if the domino effect hadn't set 6 others looking first. Perlman's own words seem to support that. Fact is instead of roping everyone on board with either expansion (Utah, BYU, Pitt, UL, WV, etc) or a league network w/o UT, or equal tv revenue sharing Beebe was unable to get anything through.

Nebraska would only have stayed in the Big 12 if they didn't receive an invitation from the Big Ten. They wouldn't have turned down the Big Ten, no matter what was happening in the Big 12.

You are talking about June 2010, I am talking about getting it settled months earlier where it was before NU reached out.
(This post was last modified: 02-06-2014 04:43 PM by 1845 Bear.)
02-06-2014 04:39 PM
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RE: TCU AD tells story of how Frogs joined the B12
(02-06-2014 04:39 PM)S11 Wrote:  
(02-06-2014 04:33 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-06-2014 04:18 PM)S11 Wrote:  
(02-06-2014 03:23 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Keeping NU would have been unlikely. They were unhappy but there was really no concession to give them (prop 8 wasnt coming back) so its very likely they still end up in the B1G (remember, B1G saying they would grow by at least 2 and as many as 4 is what started the first wave of this round of realignment)

Honestly there's nothing the B12 could have given Colorado, A&M or Nebraska to stay because those moves were as much about going home culturally as they were about anything else.

Mizzou might still be there if VT had said yes instead of deciding to stay in the ACC.

I disagree on Nebraska. I don't feel that they would have gone if the domino effect hadn't set 6 others looking first. Perlman's own words seem to support that. Fact is instead of roping everyone on board with either expansion (Utah, BYU, Pitt, UL, WV, etc) or a league network w/o UT, or equal tv revenue sharing Beebe was unable to get anything through.

Nebraska would only have stayed in the Big 12 if they didn't receive an invitation from the Big Ten. They wouldn't have turned down the Big Ten, no matter what was happening in the Big 12.

You are talking about July 2010, I am talking about getting it settled months earlier where it was before NU reached out.

I'm saying that it doesn't matter whether Nebraska was ticked off at the rest of the conference or relatively content, when the Big Ten extended an invitation to them, they were going to accept it. None of that is the fault of Dan Beebe or anyone else connected with the Big 12. The only thing that changed when Perlman contacted Delany is that he accelerated the Big Ten's timetable. They were going to invite Nebraska anyway. If they hadn't wanted Nebraska, they would have told Perlman no when he prompted Delany for an answer.
02-06-2014 04:47 PM
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RE: TCU AD tells story of how Frogs joined the B12
You beat me to it Wedge, I was going to posit something similar.

NU was always a B1G target from the moment they announced their intention to expand. The way it worked out just meant was just sooner rather than later that they ended up there.

Frankly they should have taken the opportunity to grab MU and KU right then and there too instead of this eastern strategy they seem to be pursuing with RU and UMD (unless of course the rumors that going east was to appease PSU who was starting to look at the ACC are true)
(This post was last modified: 02-06-2014 05:39 PM by 10thMountain.)
02-06-2014 05:34 PM
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Post: #73
RE: TCU AD tells story of how Frogs joined the B12
(02-06-2014 04:47 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-06-2014 04:39 PM)S11 Wrote:  
(02-06-2014 04:33 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-06-2014 04:18 PM)S11 Wrote:  
(02-06-2014 03:23 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Keeping NU would have been unlikely. They were unhappy but there was really no concession to give them (prop 8 wasnt coming back) so its very likely they still end up in the B1G (remember, B1G saying they would grow by at least 2 and as many as 4 is what started the first wave of this round of realignment)

Honestly there's nothing the B12 could have given Colorado, A&M or Nebraska to stay because those moves were as much about going home culturally as they were about anything else.

Mizzou might still be there if VT had said yes instead of deciding to stay in the ACC.

I disagree on Nebraska. I don't feel that they would have gone if the domino effect hadn't set 6 others looking first. Perlman's own words seem to support that. Fact is instead of roping everyone on board with either expansion (Utah, BYU, Pitt, UL, WV, etc) or a league network w/o UT, or equal tv revenue sharing Beebe was unable to get anything through.

Nebraska would only have stayed in the Big 12 if they didn't receive an invitation from the Big Ten. They wouldn't have turned down the Big Ten, no matter what was happening in the Big 12.

You are talking about July 2010, I am talking about getting it settled months earlier where it was before NU reached out.

I'm saying that it doesn't matter whether Nebraska was ticked off at the rest of the conference or relatively content, when the Big Ten extended an invitation to them, they were going to accept it. None of that is the fault of Dan Beebe or anyone else connected with the Big 12. The only thing that changed when Perlman contacted Delany is that he accelerated the Big Ten's timetable. They were going to invite Nebraska anyway. If they hadn't wanted Nebraska, they would have told Perlman no when he prompted Delany for an answer.

The only chance the Big 12 had to keep Nebraska was if the Big 10 didn't bother approaching them. There was nothing the Big 12 could have done about it. There was no chance to keep Colorado and once Colorado left and the SEC started sniffing around, there was nothing to do to keep A&M.
02-06-2014 06:25 PM
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RE: TCU AD tells story of how Frogs joined the B12
(02-06-2014 01:31 PM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  
(02-06-2014 12:23 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(02-06-2014 09:57 AM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  
(02-06-2014 09:21 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(02-06-2014 08:21 AM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  I think we sometimes give this guys, way too much credit when it comes to thinking. Wasn't it the Maryland Presdient who said he didn't realize the difference in money they could make with the B1G invite. Now Delaney, Scott Slive, (the brains) and and the other commissioners know, that's what there paid for, but these guys like Deloss who aren't commissioners have no idea, that's the danger of haven't one powerful school running a conference instead of letting the commissioner do it, SWC 2.0 all over again, this maybe a precurser to ultimate failure just like SWC 1.0, unless they do something to increase their footprint geographically and revenue wise. Hell, we know as a group on this board more about what makes sense when it comes to realignment then a lot of the powers that be.

When it comes to numbers, you will find it hard to see anyone more knowledgeable than Delo$$ Dodd$. This story sounds like Texas was vetoing TCU and Del Conte convinced them not to. As it said, support for TCU had been building. They were already looking at the numbers and had certainly talked to ESPN and Fox.

I guess that why he ran off A&M, Mizzou, Nebraska and Colorado because of his great grasp of $$ numbers? Ok. Hmmmmm

He didn't run them off and he's making more now without them than he was with them. And Texas is making far more than anyone else in the country. And probably will be making more TV money than anyone else through the rest of this contract cycle.

Got anything else?

Whats good for Texas is not all ways what's good for everyone else. Yes, Texas is making money, but if they had the same foresight to look beyond their Texas nose, and had the vision the SEC has, they be looking at the kind of TV deal the SEC is about to pull off with their new network making 600 million to 1 billion per year (see post abouit SEC network), they sacrificed everyone for their short term thinking, as the good book said, "Where there is no vision, the people perish" in this case the conference shall perish, possibly.

There's no sense talking to you if you take Clay Travis seriously. The SEC isn't going to make anywhere near that. In 10-15 years they may be making as much or more than Texas on their network. But that type of network wouldn't work in the Big 12. The conference network depends on large populations who get forced to pay whether they are interested or not.

In any event, Texas was not interested in the network to maximize revenue. They like having the exposure 24/7 instead of being 1/14th of a network. If Texas wanted to maximize media revenue, they would have approached the SEC.

Texas is going to be fine, no matter what. And there is no party in realignment who hasn't acted in their own interests.
02-06-2014 06:32 PM
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RE: TCU AD tells story of how Frogs joined the B12
(02-06-2014 06:32 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(02-06-2014 01:31 PM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  
(02-06-2014 12:23 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(02-06-2014 09:57 AM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  
(02-06-2014 09:21 AM)bullet Wrote:  When it comes to numbers, you will find it hard to see anyone more knowledgeable than Delo$$ Dodd$. This story sounds like Texas was vetoing TCU and Del Conte convinced them not to. As it said, support for TCU had been building. They were already looking at the numbers and had certainly talked to ESPN and Fox.

I guess that why he ran off A&M, Mizzou, Nebraska and Colorado because of his great grasp of $$ numbers? Ok. Hmmmmm

He didn't run them off and he's making more now without them than he was with them. And Texas is making far more than anyone else in the country. And probably will be making more TV money than anyone else through the rest of this contract cycle.

Got anything else?

Whats good for Texas is not all ways what's good for everyone else. Yes, Texas is making money, but if they had the same foresight to look beyond their Texas nose, and had the vision the SEC has, they be looking at the kind of TV deal the SEC is about to pull off with their new network making 600 million to 1 billion per year (see post abouit SEC network), they sacrificed everyone for their short term thinking, as the good book said, "Where there is no vision, the people perish" in this case the conference shall perish, possibly.

There's no sense talking to you if you take Clay Travis seriously. The SEC isn't going to make anywhere near that. In 10-15 years they may be making as much or more than Texas on their network. But that type of network wouldn't work in the Big 12. The conference network depends on large populations who get forced to pay whether they are interested or not.

In any event, Texas was not interested in the network to maximize revenue. They like having the exposure 24/7 instead of being 1/14th of a network. If Texas wanted to maximize media revenue, they would have approached the SEC.

Texas is going to be fine, no matter what. And there is no party in realignment who hasn't acted in their own interests.
Well Texas does what's best for Texas we all know that and that's why I said the things I've said, about the conference may perish one day. That contract they signed with ESPN has all kind of mention of when Texas decides to go independent. So in essence they have precluded the B12 from ever having a network of their own, because they won't have Texas content, while their competition P12, B1G, SEC, ACC, hell even the AAC have that advantage because they act in unison . I looked at Travis analysis it's pretty good in IMHO, nothing outlandish for the projected revenue potential of the new SEC Network. Travis maybe bodacious and some other things but stupid isn't one of them.
02-06-2014 07:19 PM
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RE: TCU AD tells story of how Frogs joined the B12
As far as exposure, I'll still take 1/14th of a network most everybody will have eventually vs all of a network nobody gets outside the UT dining hall and ESPN can't wait to pull the plug on because it's been such a colossal failure.

J/S

:D
(This post was last modified: 02-06-2014 08:02 PM by 10thMountain.)
02-06-2014 08:01 PM
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RE: TCU AD tells story of how Frogs joined the B12
(02-06-2014 07:19 PM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  
(02-06-2014 06:32 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(02-06-2014 01:31 PM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  
(02-06-2014 12:23 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(02-06-2014 09:57 AM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  I guess that why he ran off A&M, Mizzou, Nebraska and Colorado because of his great grasp of $$ numbers? Ok. Hmmmmm

He didn't run them off and he's making more now without them than he was with them. And Texas is making far more than anyone else in the country. And probably will be making more TV money than anyone else through the rest of this contract cycle.

Got anything else?

Whats good for Texas is not all ways what's good for everyone else. Yes, Texas is making money, but if they had the same foresight to look beyond their Texas nose, and had the vision the SEC has, they be looking at the kind of TV deal the SEC is about to pull off with their new network making 600 million to 1 billion per year (see post abouit SEC network), they sacrificed everyone for their short term thinking, as the good book said, "Where there is no vision, the people perish" in this case the conference shall perish, possibly.

There's no sense talking to you if you take Clay Travis seriously. The SEC isn't going to make anywhere near that. In 10-15 years they may be making as much or more than Texas on their network. But that type of network wouldn't work in the Big 12. The conference network depends on large populations who get forced to pay whether they are interested or not.

In any event, Texas was not interested in the network to maximize revenue. They like having the exposure 24/7 instead of being 1/14th of a network. If Texas wanted to maximize media revenue, they would have approached the SEC.

Texas is going to be fine, no matter what. And there is no party in realignment who hasn't acted in their own interests.
Well Texas does what's best for Texas we all know that and that's why I said the things I've said, about the conference may perish one day. That contract they signed with ESPN has all kind of mention of when Texas decides to go independent. So in essence they have precluded the B12 from ever having a network of their own, because they won't have Texas content, while their competition P12, B1G, SEC, ACC, hell even the AAC have that advantage because they act in unison . I looked at Travis analysis it's pretty good in IMHO, nothing outlandish for the projected revenue potential of the new SEC Network. Travis maybe bodacious and some other things but stupid isn't one of them.

At least he isn't saying the SEC Network will make more than the NFL network anymore, but well, lets say he makes Bleacher Report look authoritative by comparison.
02-06-2014 08:58 PM
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RE: TCU AD tells story of how Frogs joined the B12
(02-06-2014 08:01 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  As far as exposure, I'll still take 1/14th of a network most everybody will have eventually vs all of a network nobody gets outside the UT dining hall and ESPN can't wait to pull the plug on because it's been such a colossal failure.

J/S

:D

Longhorn Network is on all the top 10 cable systems now except DISH, DirectTV and Comcast. Most likely they get on DISH whenever the DISH/Disney deal gets done. It took a while, but so did the BTN.
02-06-2014 09:00 PM
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TCU AD tells story of how Frogs joined the B12
(02-06-2014 07:19 PM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  That contract they signed with ESPN has all kind of mention of when Texas decides to go independent.

Don't confuse Espn covering it's butt with anything resembling an intended move.

Quote:So in essence they have precluded the B12 from ever having a network of their own, because they won't have Texas content, while their competition P12, B1G, SEC, ACC, hell even the AAC have that advantage because they act in unison.

The others could have put a nine team network together with reduced revenue potential. Nothing prevented that.

Quote:I looked at Travis analysis it's pretty good in IMHO, nothing outlandish for the projected revenue potential of the new SEC Network. Travis maybe bodacious and some other things but stupid isn't one of them.

If you think his predictions aren't outlandish... good luck with that.
02-06-2014 11:12 PM
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Posts: 5,161
Joined: May 2010
Reputation: 449
I Root For: Common Sense
Location: Nunnayadamnbusiness
Post: #80
RE: TCU AD tells story of how Frogs joined the B12
They should have taken Louisville over TCU. Then, to get to 12 teams, take TCU and Cincinnati and you have a very nice, multi-regional 12 team league, as was originally intended.
02-06-2014 11:13 PM
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