Give us your opinion. Who are the three protected rivals?

List your first two must have, then list the 3rd and 4th (suitable) subsitute(s). The third choice is your favorite but your 4th choice(s) would work too.

I'll start:

Syracuse

1. BC
2. Pitt

3. Miami
4. Louisville, GTech, UVA or VTech

For me the first two are no-brainers and any of the others listed would be fine for #3. Louisville is a close thrid to Miami...but Miami gets the nod for recruiting and Cuse fan base in S FL.

(02-03-2014 02:08 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  Give us your opinion. Who are the three protected rivals?

List your first two must have, then list the 3rd and 4th (suitable) subsitute(s). The third choice is your favorite but your 4th choice(s) would work too.

I'll start:

Syracuse

1. BC
2. Pitt

3. Miami
4. Louisville, GTech, UVA or VTech

For me the first two are no-brainers and any of the others listed would be fine for #3. Louisville is a close thrid to Miami...but Miami gets the nod for recruiting and Cuse fan base in S FL.

NCSU - UNC, Clemson, Wake (Duke 4th)
UNC - Duke, NCSU, UVa (UNC can't have a substitute - they have to have these three)

I would say due to history, Louisville's rivals.


Miami and Virginia Tech

Then Syracuse, Pitt

In basketball Syracuse, ND and Pitt.

Here's an idea:

UNC - Duke, NCSU, UVA
FSU - Miami, GT, Florida
NCSU - UNC, Clemson, Wake Forest
Clemson - NCSU, GT, South Carolina
Miami - FSU, GT, Syracuse
GT - Clemson, FSU, Georgia
UVA - UNC, VT, Duke
VT - UVA, Wake, Louisville
Duke - UNC, UVa, Wake
Wake - NCSU, VT, Duke
Pitt - Louisville, BC, Syracuse
Syracuse - Miami, Pitt, BC
BC - Louisville, Syracuse, Pitt
Louisville - Pitt, VT, Kentucky

FSU, Clemson, GT, and Louisville get two protected rivals in addition to their SEC rivals. Allow those four to count that as a league game. Then everyone plays 6 other ACC teams in a rotational format, and when you play ND, that counts as an ACC game.

Is this fair - probably not. Would it work? Probably.

LOUISVILLE
Miami
Va. Tech
Pitt

Wake Forest

1. NC State
2. Duke
3. UNC

4. Boston College

(02-03-2014 02:33 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Here's an idea:

UNC - Duke, NCSU, UVA
FSU - Miami, GT, Florida
NCSU - UNC, Clemson, Wake Forest
Clemson - NCSU, GT, South Carolina
Miami - FSU, GT, Syracuse
GT - Clemson, FSU, Georgia
UVA - UNC, VT, Duke
VT - UVA, Wake, Louisville
Duke - UNC, UVa, Wake
Wake - NCSU, VT, Duke
Pitt - Louisville, BC, Syracuse
Syracuse - Miami, Pitt, BC
BC - Louisville, Syracuse, Pitt
Louisville - Pitt, VT, Kentucky

FSU, Clemson, GT, and Louisville get two protected rivals in addition to their SEC rivals. Allow those four to count that as a league game. Then everyone plays 6 other ACC teams in a rotational format, and when you play ND, that counts as an ACC game.

Is this fair - probably not. Would it work? Probably.

The answer to both questions is no. It is not fair and therefore will not work.

My opinion as a Pitt alumnus, I'd go with:

Miami
Va Tech
Syracuse

If it would be possible for Pitt to lock up ND and PSU as annual games, then it would become:

Notre Dame
Penn State
Syracuse

Now Syracuse was never a heated rivalry, but both schools have played many times in FB over the years.

(02-03-2014 02:33 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Here's an idea:

FSU, Clemson, GT, and Louisville get two protected rivals in addition to their SEC rivals. Allow those four to count that as a league game. Then everyone plays 6 other ACC teams in a rotational format, and when you play ND, that counts as an ACC game.

Is this fair - probably not. Would it work? Probably.

That literally makes 0 sense. Please keep these ideas to yourself.

1. Miami
2. Clemson
3. Georgia Tech
4. Virginia Tech

1. GT
2. FSU

3. Doesn't matter anywhere near as much. Whoever out of VT/NCSU/Wake/BC that is available. No UNC/Duke/UVA/Pitt/Cuse.

Va Tech
1. Virginia (it's a duty dance)
2. Miami (our best rivalry)
... big drop-off...
3. an NC school (I prefer NC State, then UNC, then Wake, then Duke), Pittsburgh, Louisville (the latter being the 2 better rivalries, TBH)

VT is so new to the ACC still (in terms of rivalries 10 years is NOTHING) that we don't really have "must play" rivals except for UVa. There is not a single ACC team that I wouldn't enjoy watching the Hokies play, but UVA and the "U" are the 2 most important ones, IMO.

For Carolina, I would like to see Duke, UVA then GT or FSU.

(02-03-2014 03:43 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(02-03-2014 02:33 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Here's an idea:

FSU, Clemson, GT, and Louisville get two protected rivals in addition to their SEC rivals. Allow those four to count that as a league game. Then everyone plays 6 other ACC teams in a rotational format, and when you play ND, that counts as an ACC game.

Is this fair - probably not. Would it work? Probably.

That literally makes 0 sense. Please keep these ideas to yourself.

Poor Marge.

(02-03-2014 03:30 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  

(02-03-2014 02:33 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Here's an idea:

UNC - Duke, NCSU, UVA
FSU - Miami, GT, Florida
NCSU - UNC, Clemson, Wake Forest
Clemson - NCSU, GT, South Carolina
Miami - FSU, GT, Syracuse
GT - Clemson, FSU, Georgia
UVA - UNC, VT, Duke
VT - UVA, Wake, Louisville
Duke - UNC, UVa, Wake
Wake - NCSU, VT, Duke
Pitt - Louisville, BC, Syracuse
Syracuse - Miami, Pitt, BC
BC - Louisville, Syracuse, Pitt
Louisville - Pitt, VT, Kentucky

FSU, Clemson, GT, and Louisville get two protected rivals in addition to their SEC rivals. Allow those four to count that as a league game. Then everyone plays 6 other ACC teams in a rotational format, and when you play ND, that counts as an ACC game.

Is this fair - probably not. Would it work? Probably.

The answer to both questions is no. It is not fair and therefore will not work.

Wolfman, here's the problem with not taking those games into account, if the entire point of a conference championship is to angle for a spot in the 4 team playoff - almost any of the four who lose that rivalry game is out of the playoff picture.

I don't see how FSU/Florida, Clemson/SC, or GT/Georgia make a playoff without winning that rivalry game, do you?

If you are aren't playing in a division and no one has the exact same schedule, then it's never going to be equal and all that will matter is winning the most games. In an environment like that, you might as well count those 4 games in the matrix to determine who plays for the conference championship, along with game with ND.

For example if FSU plays, Florida, Miami, GT, UNC, UVA, Duke, Louisville, ND, Pitt and wins 8 games, while Clemson plays SC, NCSU, GT, Syracuse, BC, WF, Pitt, Louisville, and VT and wins 8 games, the overlap between FSU and Clemson schedules will be as little as three games, but even if the overlap is 5 games, it's not equal.

The old Southern Conference used to work like this for football although there was no playoff. It could be that all ACC schools could be allowed a 9th conference game or the ability to count a B-5 series game as a conference game.

Once you go away from divisions, you have essentially gone back to the old SoCon method of scheduling used by the SoCon from 1921-1933 when we all played with Bama, Auburn, LSU, Ole Miss, etc., and had 23 teams in the Conference. It was not uncommon back them for a conference title in football to go to a team that was 4-0-1, or 6-0, or 6-1 in conference with games against the likes of VT, NC State, UNC, Georgia, GT, and VMI, etc.

Now to attempt to make old maid Marge happy, perhaps you don't go with the 13th regular season game, but angle for a conference semi-final so that 4 teams can make it to the ACC title instead of 2. Then the controversy is rooted on who gets the two home fields for the semi-final.

It's very important that folks realize that with just three protected rivalry games, schedules will not at all be equal, not even close with 14 conference members, because there will be a pool of 10 teams from which to draw 6 games. Someone needs to check my math, but I calculate that the highest possible overlap in a 9 game schedule is 7 teams, and as little as 4 teams. Each year someone will have an easier path and some a more difficult path.

(02-03-2014 05:26 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  Wolfman, here's the problem with not taking those games into account, if the entire point of a conference championship is to angle for a spot in the 4 team playoff - almost any of the four who lose that rivalry game is out of the playoff picture.

I don't see how FSU/Florida, Clemson/SC, or GT/Georgia make a playoff without winning that rivalry game, do you?

Nope.

Quote:If you are aren't playing in a division and no one has the exact same schedule, then it's never going to be equal and all that will matter is winning the most games. In an environment like that, you might as well count those 4 games in the matrix to determine who plays for the conference championship, along with game with ND.

For example if FSU plays, Florida, Miami, GT, UNC, UVA, Duke, Louisville, ND, Pitt and wins 8 games, while Clemson plays SC, NCSU, GT, Syracuse, BC, WF, Pitt, Louisville, and VT and wins 8 games, the overlap between FSU and Clemson schedules will be as little as three games, but even if the overlap is 5 games, it's not equal.

The old Southern Conference used to work like this for football although there was no playoff.

Reading through your earlier post with the list of schools and their protected rivals involving SEC schools, I was about to comment on how that looks a lot like the old SoCon -- in that not all of the schools played each other. It could work again…

Quote:It could be that all ACC schools could be allowed a 9th conference game or the ability to count a B-5 series game as a conference game.

Once you go away from divisions, you have essentially gone back to the old SoCon method of scheduling used by the SoCon from 1921-1933 when we all played with Bama, Auburn, LSU, Ole Miss, etc., and had 23 teams in the Conference. It was not uncommon back them for a conference title in football to go to a team that was 4-0-1, or 6-0, or 6-1 in conference with games against the likes of VT, NC State, UNC, Georgia, GT, and VMI, etc.

Now to attempt to make old maid Marge happy,

You lost me right there -- why in the heck would we care to do that for?

Quote:… perhaps you don't go with the 13th regular season game, but angle for a conference semi-final so that 4 teams can make it to the ACC title instead of 2. Then the controversy is rooted on who gets the two home fields for the semi-final.

ECU - Well Marge is against a 13th game for everyone and is always so mad and bitter when I mention it that I thought if I tossed him a bone he would go away.

He was mad and bitter before you got here.

It's quite humorous that you believe yourselves to be better than me but spend so much of your time having to publicly convince each other of that. If you actually were what you think you are, you wouldn't need to keep telling all of us so often.