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Big East Recruiting Presence in Florida
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Hummell Offline
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Big East Recruiting Presence in Florida
I have a quick question:

1) Has the Big East's overall recruiting presence (meaning all Big East schools) INCREASED, DECREASED, OR REMAINED THE SAME in Florida since South Florida was added to the league?

Some people say that the reason South Florida was added was because it would give the Big East recruiting advantages. It is also commonly used as a reason for potentially adding a Central Florida team to the Conference, assuming additions are made. So my question is, from a recruiting perspective, is the recruiting presence (# of recruits) trending up, down or remaining flat from previous years since South Florida was added to the mix?
08-26-2006 06:18 AM
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KnightLight Offline
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With the loss of Big East Member Miami...and the loss of some publicity for the conference in the richest recruiting area of the state (West Palm to Miami), I don't think USF has helped overall (vs Miami membership) but USF basically "saved" some of the FLA exposure for the Big East.

Big East "had" to have some type of exposure when Miami decided to leave.



Here was a list from Feb 1st from FLA HS players that were to committed
to the following Big East Teams..

A strong majority of these players did sign with these teams...but 1 or 2 might of been lost...but a few were added and signed after Feb 1st signing day.

2006 FLA recruits:


Louisville (12): DB Brandon Heath, 6-1/195, Palm Beach Lakes; RB Anthony Allen, 6-0/215, Tampa Jesuit; OL Jeremy Baker, 6-4/320, Palm Beach Lakes; DL Kareem Crowell, 6-3/285, Tallahassee Godby; DE Rodney Gnat, 6-4/225, Jacksonville Wolfson; DL Frank Grimes, 6-0/270, Tallahassee Godby; OL Hector Hernandez, 6-4/256, Naples; OL Ryan Kessling, 6-5/280, Tallahassee Chiles; RB Marcus Nelson, 6-2/250, Callahan West Nassau; WR Johnny Patrick, 6-0/185, DeLand; RB James Poe, 6-3/225, Orlando Freedom; WR Latarrius Thomas, 6-2195, New Smyrna Beach


Pittsburgh (5): QB Dexter Davidson, 6-4/210, Coconut Creek North Broward Prep; DB Ricky Gary, 5-8/175, Pahokee; DL Jared Martin, 6-1/270, Fort Lauderdale Western; WR/DB Tamarcus Porter, 5-11/170, Pahokee; DE Greg Romeus, 6-5/215, Coral Springs Coral Glade

Rutgers (8): WR Burnon Anderson, 6-1/205, Plantation; LB Sorie Bayou, 6-2/215, Miami Gulliver Prep; WR Tim Brown, 5-9/156, Miami Northwestern; WR Kevin Holloway, 5-10/175, Hollywood McArthur; LB Antonio Lowery, 6-1/205, Miami Columbus; LB Patrick Nemorian, 6-2/210, Deerfield Beach; QB Chris Paul-Etienne, 6-1/175, Miami Edison; DE Markus White, 6-4/225, Lake Worth Leonard


West Virginia (7): DB Franchot "Boogie" Allen, 6-2/200, New Berlin (N.Y.) Milford Prep via Jacksonville Trinity Christian; RB Jetavious Best, 5-9/165, New Berlin (N.Y.) Milford Academy via Palm Beach Lakes; DE Marcus Broxie, 6-4/230, Tampa Middleton; RB Eddie Davis, 5-10/180, Tampa Freedom; OL Derek Hayes, 6-4/280, Tallahassee Rickards; WR Sherman Lang, 5-11/165, Melbourne Florida Air Academy; LB James Thomas, 6-2/205, Pompano Beach Ely
08-26-2006 08:27 AM
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Cubanbull Offline
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In addition to those Rivals had
Cincy with 3 and UConn with 3
08-26-2006 08:33 AM
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Jackson1011 Online
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Quote:1) Has the Big East's overall recruiting presence (meaning all Big East schools) INCREASED, DECREASED, OR REMAINED THE SAME in Florida since South Florida was added to the league?

-- Good question...here are my thoughts

1. I don't think the BE ever had a presence in Fla the way the SEC has always had or even the ACC does now. However I do think individual teams try hard to make there presenc felt in the sunshine state. Rutgers has football camps in Fla and advertises reguarly, WVU has been hitting the Fla recruiting trail since the early 1980s and UL seems to have a strong reputation there as well.

2. Since Miami left, all I can say is that it seems business as usual for Big East teams in terms of recruiting that state. The quality and #s seem about the same now as they were pre-ACC raid. Personally, I think that says more about the good reputation that some of the Eastern teams have in Fla rather then the presence of USF, but that can be debatable

3. IMO, I think the whole USF recruiting angle was just a happy by product of adding the Bulls. The BE needed an 8th team that would not drag the league rankings down ala Temple. It also saw a very young program in the state with the best high school players this side of the Mississippi and wondered if they are winning in CUSA now, what could they do if they had a BCS bid to sell to recruits? I honestly think that it was a chance to catch lightening in a bottle and try form/evolve an above average football program quickly. That's why the geographical argument against them was cast aside. USF just had to much potential in terms of possibly developing quickly

4. As for UCF, I don't know how much they would help with the Fla recruiting since they and the Bulls are really in the same section of the state. However, I think it would be a good thing for USF to invite UCF. IMO, the Bulls need an in-league rivalry, especially in hoops. It would cut down on the travel costs for the rest of the schools and give the Eastern teams a trip to Fla every yr 04-rock . The only question in my mind is would the addition of UCF hurt USF in football recruiting? Are there enough kids in Fla to support 4 BCS schools?

Jackson
08-26-2006 09:23 AM
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KnightLight Offline
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Jackson1011 Wrote:3. IMO, I think the whole USF recruiting angle was just a happy by product of adding the Bulls. The BE needed an 8th team that would not drag the league rankings down ala Temple. It also saw a very young program in the state with the best high school players this side of the Mississippi and wondered if they are winning in CUSA now, what could they do if they had a BCS bid to sell to recruits?

Jackson
Good post...just one minor correction:

FYI...USF went 8-8 in CUSA play during their 2 years of football membership.

KL
08-26-2006 09:59 AM
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Jackson1011 Online
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Quote:FYI...USF went 8-8 in CUSA play during their 2 years of football membership


-- True...but USF has had only one losing season and has been ranked in the BCS Top 25....that's still pretty impressive for a young program despite the .500 CUSA record

-- I remember hearing rumors during the last raid that UCF had made a strong pitch to become a 9th fooball only member of the BE. From what I heard UCF would stay in the A-sun untill 2010 and then it would become an all sports member of the new league. What made the BE pass on the idea was UCFs poor record and how it would effect the league BCS ranking. IF UCF had the football program it enjoys now then I think that would have been a no brainer

Jackson
08-26-2006 10:22 AM
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bluesox Offline
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Actually, UCF would be the 5th BCS member from florida...Yet, if its ECU, that would be the 5th from N.Car...than again texas has 10 d1 programs + CA has 7 d1 programs and flordia would only have 5 but they could all be in BCS leagues. My take is either add C.Fl or Temple when the split happens in 2010, maybe both.
08-26-2006 10:45 AM
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CardHouse Offline
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08-26-2006 10:51 AM
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CardinalJim Offline
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Jackson1011 Wrote:-- I remember hearing rumors during the last raid that UCF had made a strong pitch to become a 9th fooball only member of the BE. From what I heard UCF would stay in the A-sun untill 2010 and then it would become an all sports member of the new league. What made the BE pass on the idea was UCFs poor record and how it would effect the league BCS ranking.

Jackson

Thank goodness the leadership of the Big East has more sense than some of the posters on this board. No way UCF should ever be considered for membership in our conference. They are simply too close to our program in Tampa to add anything to our football bottomline. In no way would it benefit the Big East to give UCF a level field to recruit against Rutgers, WVU, UofL and USF with. Presently I see Louisville and Cincinnati squarely in Memphis' corner if, and thats a BIG if, the league ever adds a ninth football member. WVU seems to favor ECU. The swing votes in this sweepstakes would come from Syracuse, Pittsburgh and Rutgers. I can't see the Knights supporting UCF because Rutgers recruits Florida heavily. The support for UCF ever joining the big East just isn't there.
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08-26-2006 11:01 AM
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KnightLight Offline
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Jackson1011 Wrote:
Quote:FYI...USF went 8-8 in CUSA play during their 2 years of football membership


-- I remember hearing rumors during the last raid that UCF had made a strong pitch to become a 9th fooball only member of the BE. From what I heard UCF would stay in the A-sun untill 2010 and then it would become an all sports member of the new league. What made the BE pass on the idea was UCFs poor record and how it would effect the league BCS ranking. IF UCF had the football program it enjoys now then I think that would have been a no brainer

Jackson

Correct...before BC decided to leave...Big East was looking at a Football Only member, and UCF was their top choice.

After BC let it be known that they too would be leaving for the ACC, Big East decided they just needed a full member to help balance out football, and USF was the best choice at that time for full membership.

Believe this board or another had a breakdown with info and early votes that showed what the Big East was looking at/voting for at that time.

Chances are if Steve Sloan wasn't UCF's AD for so long that left football in shambles and basketball bascially non-existant...UCF might of been a better candidate in the past.

However, if UCF programs didn't fall so low...chances are UCF would have O'Leary as head Coach, former Orange Bowl Commish as AD...and wouldn't be the only school in the nation opening up a brand new football stadium and basketball arena in the same month (Sept 2007).

Things happen for a reason, but one has to live for today.

Who knows what Conferences will do/look for in the future...but yes, UCF does finally have the plans/facilities/leadership in place IF anything changes in the future...which in College Athletics...is always the case.

KL
08-26-2006 11:12 AM
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CyberBull Offline
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KnightLight Wrote:
Jackson1011 Wrote:3. IMO, I think the whole USF recruiting angle was just a happy by product of adding the Bulls. The BE needed an 8th team that would not drag the league rankings down ala Temple. It also saw a very young program in the state with the best high school players this side of the Mississippi and wondered if they are winning in CUSA now, what could they do if they had a BCS bid to sell to recruits?

Jackson
Good post...just one minor correction:

FYI...USF went 8-8 in CUSA play during their 2 years of football membership.

KL

Correction: discussion about adding USF to the BigEast began in July 2003. USF had very good success against CUSA before it was forced to wait two years, having gone 4-0 against the league's best in 2002.

Similarly, its quality not quantity. USF had beaten UL prior to the official invite came on Nov 3rd, 2003. USF was competing and beating the leagues best opponents and it had less than 3 years of Division I-A football.
08-26-2006 11:48 AM
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CyberBull Offline
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KnightLight Wrote:
Jackson1011 Wrote:
Quote:FYI...USF went 8-8 in CUSA play during their 2 years of football membership


-- I remember hearing rumors during the last raid that UCF had made a strong pitch to become a 9th fooball only member of the BE. From what I heard UCF would stay in the A-sun untill 2010 and then it would become an all sports member of the new league. What made the BE pass on the idea was UCFs poor record and how it would effect the league BCS ranking. IF UCF had the football program it enjoys now then I think that would have been a no brainer

Jackson

Correct...before BC decided to leave...Big East was looking at a Football Only member, and UCF was their top choice.

After BC let it be known that they too would be leaving for the ACC, Big East decided they just needed a full member to help balance out football, and USF was the best choice at that time for full membership.

Believe this board or another had a breakdown with info and early votes that showed what the Big East was looking at/voting for at that time.

Chances are if Steve Sloan wasn't UCF's AD for so long that left football in shambles and basketball bascially non-existant...UCF might of been a better candidate in the past.

However, if UCF programs didn't fall so low...chances are UCF would have O'Leary as head Coach, former Orange Bowl Commish as AD...and wouldn't be the only school in the nation opening up a brand new football stadium and basketball arena in the same month (Sept 2007).

Things happen for a reason, but one has to live for today.

Who knows what Conferences will do/look for in the future...but yes, UCF does finally have the plans/facilities/leadership in place IF anything changes in the future...which in College Athletics...is always the case.

KL

KL -- you guys screwed up in 1995 when CUSA was forming and McDowell & company cast derisive comments toward CUSA. USF seized the opportunity started football program at a record pace and played competitive basketball on a national level for the most part of a decade.

USF had the upper-hand not b/c of UCF's record but b/c it had better connections and had been competing at a higher level for years. In addition, USF's academic mission was more in line with other BE schools which made a big difference with the league's Presidents.

The league saw USF go from nothing to beating ranked opponents in less than 5 years and where mesmerized with that potential. UCF in turn had years of football and seem to be stagnated. Things change but when opportunity knocks you have to be ready....something that USF has been able to do well over the last 25 years. UCF has a good team now in place, although Hitt's health problems makes you wonder how long it's safe for him to being President. Ask UC what an anti-sports President can do to a program.
08-26-2006 11:58 AM
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Hummell Offline
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Then is it fair to say that adding UCF during the next round of expansion would not increase the amount of recruits that come out of the state of Florida to attend Big East schools, but actually decrease the amount of recruits that are going to the constituents of the Big East today?
08-26-2006 12:00 PM
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Maize Offline
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Hummell Wrote:Then is it fair to say that adding UCF during the next round of expansion would not increase the amount of recruits that come out of the state of Florida to attend Big East schools, but actually decrease the amount of recruits that are going to Big East schools today?

That would be a fair accessment. At this moment IF the Big East ever splits or adds another All Sports member I would favor Memphis and like someone else said WVU would probably favor ECU.

BUT if Temple EVER gets it act together then all bets are off and the Owls would likely be the 9th Member.
08-26-2006 12:01 PM
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Hummell Offline
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Then assuming that the best football players come out of the state of Florida, if you add UCF, you will decrease the amount of talent going to the constituents of the Big East Conference today, thus making them all less talented and weakening the league overall.
08-26-2006 12:06 PM
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Maize Offline
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Hummell Wrote:Then assuming that the best football players come out of the state of Florida, if you add UCF, you will decrease the amount of talent going to the constituents of the Big East Conference today, thus making them all less talented and weakening the league overall.

It would not just affect the Big East but the SEC and ACC as well. FSU, UF and Miami would be fine but schools like Clemson, Maryland, Kentucky, Alabama and others would be hurt by it. Why leave the state when you have another option in Florida to play for a BCS School.
08-26-2006 12:09 PM
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Hummell Offline
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Therefore, if you add UCF to the Big East, everyone gets worse. Which conference would be hurt the most? The SEC, the ACC, or the Big East? Which conference can afford to take a loss in talent the most?
08-26-2006 12:11 PM
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There is so much D-1a talent in Florida that it wouldn't matter either way. Plenty of players to pick from...
08-26-2006 12:18 PM
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Hummell Offline
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Every team tries to get the best players in FLA after all the big schools have picked them over. Adding UCF would hurt the other Big East schools chances of getting those players, and at best, they would get less of them, thus making them less talented on the field.

I realize that there is an abundance of players in Florida, but the abundance of impact players in Florida are minimal after Miami, UofF, and Florida State have cleaned house. Adding UCF would detract the amount of impact players going to Big East schools today.
08-26-2006 12:27 PM
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KnightLight Offline
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Re: ...
Hummell Wrote:I realize that there is an abundance of players in Florida, but the abundance of impact players in Florida are minimal after Miami, UofF, and Florida State have cleaned house. Adding UCF would detract the amount of impact players going to Big East schools today.

Son...if that was the case...why do some schools like Southern Cal, Texas, Michigan, Alabama, Georgia, etc...all recruit 4-5 star players out of FLA?

Bottom line...FSU, Miami, and UF combined have almost a 1/3 of their total recruiting classes from outside of FLA.

Over 310 players from FLA signed Div I-A scholarships last year.

10 years ago it was only around 200 players.

There are PLENTY of top players for almost every Top Program..to continue to recruit FLA.

Just like in other areas...a good percentage of kids will want to go "away" to school..and for many in FLA...that means AWAY from FL.

As FLA's population continues to sky rocket...more and more high schools opening every year like weeds....ALL playing football...the state will continue to put out good HS Football players.

Florida's population has almost DOUBLED (now well over 17 Million) since FSU & Miami (then UF) made their mark on the college football scene 25 years ago.

With all that growth comes MORE players...to share.

KL
08-26-2006 12:52 PM
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