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Rice U Dropped from Top 10
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Antarius Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Rice U Dropped from Top 10
(02-07-2014 03:46 PM)owl95 Wrote:  I'm honestly a little surprised at the posts in this thread. We spent over a decade atop the US news and world report rating for best bargain while maintaining, a #12-13 overall rating, now we cost nearly as much as an Ivy league while struggling to stay in the top 20. There is something seriously wrong with this picture.

Should have snapped up BCM when we had the chance.
02-07-2014 03:55 PM
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Post: #22
RE: Rice U Dropped from Top 10
I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see Rice fall outside of the top-20 in USNWR rankings within the next 5 years. This is pure, wild speculation on my part, so I have nothing to base this hunch on. Other schools are being more aggressive and using their branding more intelligently than Rice is.

Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton--these are schools at the top of the heap--and their brands seem more valuable today than ten years ago. I don't think the Rice name is somehow more valuable now than it was in 2004. Rice is currently tied with Notre Dame and BEHIND Vanderbilt. We may think that that doesn't sound right, but I think the rest of the world thinks it does.
02-07-2014 04:58 PM
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Post: #23
RE: Rice U Dropped from Top 10
(02-04-2014 12:18 AM)75src Wrote:  From 1971-75, it was $2,100. Before 1966, it was zero.

(01-30-2014 04:25 PM)07owl Wrote:  Not surprising the way tuition has been skyrocketing. I started at Rice about a decade ago, and according to the website, tuition was almost 19k then. Now it's over 38k.

For 1968 to 1972, it was $1500, and as long as you did not leave school for a while, it never increased.
02-07-2014 07:42 PM
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Post: #24
RE: Rice U Dropped from Top 10
(02-07-2014 04:58 PM)Barrett Wrote:  I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see Rice fall outside of the top-20 in USNWR rankings within the next 5 years. This is pure, wild speculation on my part, so I have nothing to base this hunch on. Other schools are being more aggressive and using their branding more intelligently than Rice is.

Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton--these are schools at the top of the heap--and their brands seem more valuable today than ten years ago. I don't think the Rice name is somehow more valuable now than it was in 2004. Rice is currently tied with Notre Dame and BEHIND Vanderbilt. We may think that that doesn't sound right, but I think the rest of the world thinks it does.

Many years ago, Rice was unquestionably the best in the south and an alternative to the Ivy Leagues and MIT. These days it seems well behind them. Although the slide is not anywhere near as bad as in athletics, I see some parallels. Part of the problem might be that we have similarly slid in our endowment, and that might put constraints on everything else. When I matriculated in 1968, we had the highest endowment per student and were something like 6th in overall endowment. When last I looked, several years ago, we had fallen to about 20th overall.
02-07-2014 07:52 PM
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ExcitedOwl18 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Rice U Dropped from Top 10
(02-07-2014 07:52 PM)Ranger Wrote:  
(02-07-2014 04:58 PM)Barrett Wrote:  I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see Rice fall outside of the top-20 in USNWR rankings within the next 5 years. This is pure, wild speculation on my part, so I have nothing to base this hunch on. Other schools are being more aggressive and using their branding more intelligently than Rice is.

Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton--these are schools at the top of the heap--and their brands seem more valuable today than ten years ago. I don't think the Rice name is somehow more valuable now than it was in 2004. Rice is currently tied with Notre Dame and BEHIND Vanderbilt. We may think that that doesn't sound right, but I think the rest of the world thinks it does.

Many years ago, Rice was unquestionably the best in the south and an alternative to the Ivy Leagues and MIT. These days it seems well behind them. Although the slide is not anywhere near as bad as in athletics, I see some parallels. Part of the problem might be that we have similarly slid in our endowment, and that might put constraints on everything else. When I matriculated in 1968, we had the highest endowment per student and were something like 6th in overall endowment. When last I looked, several years ago, we had fallen to about 20th overall.
As someone who was recently completed their college search and was admitted to Rice, I feel like I can contribute to this subject from a slightly different perspective. I attend a very competitive private all-male high school around Boston. The two most common schools for students at my school to attend are BC and Holy Cross (Ranked #31 (university) in USNWR and #25 (LAC) respectively), but last year we had four students attend Harvard, one Princeton, one Yale, one Dartmouth, three Notre Dame, five UVA, and one Vandy in addition to having ~20 matriculate to NESCAC (Bowdoin, Bates, Colby, Wesleyan, Middlebury, Amherst, Williams, etc..) schools. Anyway, I just picked some random competitive schools to illustrate my forthcoming point. Over the past seven years, my school has only averaged 1.2 APPLICANTS per year to Rice. Assuming my school is relatively representative of the general trends of the Boston area (and perhaps the northeast more broadly?), Rice simply isn't attracting enough applicants from the Northeast, arguably the most "talent-rich" area of the country, to keep up with peer institutions.

When I visited Vandy and Georgia Tech, it felt as if a third of the student population was from the DC to Boston corridor. When I visited Rice, it was clear that the student body was far more regional, which actually appealed to me. At Vandy, it seemed as if the northeastern students there were try-hards trying to act "southern" but failing miserably. In some ways, I hope Rice stays the way it is as I have not even started my time there. At the same time, I understand how the slide in the rankings is frustrating to alumni. This is just possibly one contributing factor that I felt I could talk about a little bit and by no means am I saying that I am not excited to attend Rice!!!
02-07-2014 10:10 PM
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07owl Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Rice U Dropped from Top 10
(02-07-2014 10:10 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(02-07-2014 07:52 PM)Ranger Wrote:  
(02-07-2014 04:58 PM)Barrett Wrote:  I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see Rice fall outside of the top-20 in USNWR rankings within the next 5 years. This is pure, wild speculation on my part, so I have nothing to base this hunch on. Other schools are being more aggressive and using their branding more intelligently than Rice is.

Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton--these are schools at the top of the heap--and their brands seem more valuable today than ten years ago. I don't think the Rice name is somehow more valuable now than it was in 2004. Rice is currently tied with Notre Dame and BEHIND Vanderbilt. We may think that that doesn't sound right, but I think the rest of the world thinks it does.

Many years ago, Rice was unquestionably the best in the south and an alternative to the Ivy Leagues and MIT. These days it seems well behind them. Although the slide is not anywhere near as bad as in athletics, I see some parallels. Part of the problem might be that we have similarly slid in our endowment, and that might put constraints on everything else. When I matriculated in 1968, we had the highest endowment per student and were something like 6th in overall endowment. When last I looked, several years ago, we had fallen to about 20th overall.
As someone who was recently completed their college search and was admitted to Rice, I feel like I can contribute to this subject from a slightly different perspective. I attend a very competitive private all-male high school around Boston. The two most common schools for students at my school to attend are BC and Holy Cross (Ranked #31 (university) in USNWR and #25 (LAC) respectively), but last year we had four students attend Harvard, one Princeton, one Yale, one Dartmouth, three Notre Dame, five UVA, and one Vandy in addition to having ~20 matriculate to NESCAC (Bowdoin, Bates, Colby, Wesleyan, Middlebury, Amherst, Williams, etc..) schools. Anyway, I just picked some random competitive schools to illustrate my forthcoming point. Over the past seven years, my school has only averaged 1.2 APPLICANTS per year to Rice. Assuming my school is relatively representative of the general trends of the Boston area (and perhaps the northeast more broadly?), Rice simply isn't attracting enough applicants from the Northeast, arguably the most "talent-rich" area of the country, to keep up with peer institutions.

When I visited Vandy and Georgia Tech, it felt as if a third of the student population was from the DC to Boston corridor. When I visited Rice, it was clear that the student body was far more regional, which actually appealed to me. At Vandy, it seemed as if the northeastern students there were try-hards trying to act "southern" but failing miserably. In some ways, I hope Rice stays the way it is as I have not even started my time there. At the same time, I understand how the slide in the rankings is frustrating to alumni. This is just possibly one contributing factor that I felt I could talk about a little bit and by no means am I saying that I am not excited to attend Rice!!!

I definitely agree with most of what you've said. I like the point about Rice having a regional, honest personality. I never got the sense that people at Rice were there because they didn't get into Ivy schools, like I did at other similar schools (Wash U and Emory come to mind). The students at Rice seemed to genuinely want to be there and chose it intentionally
02-08-2014 03:35 PM
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JSA Online
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Post: #27
RE: Rice U Dropped from Top 10
Kiplinger has us as the third best value among private universities, just behind Yale and Princeton.

http://portal.kiplinger.com/slideshow/co...index.html
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2014 04:42 PM by JSA.)
02-14-2014 04:40 PM
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JustAnotherAustinOwl Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Rice U Dropped from Top 10
How much is public about the rankings methodology and data? I'd be curious to see if, for example, our alumni giving increased 10% that would bump us back in front of Vandy, or if there's a huge gulf. My guess is that the top 6 are pretty well entrenched and no one is going break into that group, though they might shuffle around a bit.

But what other groupings are there? Are we part of a 12-18 group or a 18-25 group?

Basically, I want their datasets so I can look at them myself and determine how worried we should be about dropping out of the top 20. (Assuming we should care, but that's a different debate.)

I know when I was looking I wrote off Vandy early on as not 'elite' enough and lumped it in like Tulane - a good school but obviously a step down from Rice. In the end Rice was the only private I applied to, because of the cost. If I hadn't gone to Rice I'd have been a Jayhawk...
02-14-2014 05:43 PM
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JOwl Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Rice U Dropped from Top 10
(02-07-2014 10:10 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(02-07-2014 07:52 PM)Ranger Wrote:  
(02-07-2014 04:58 PM)Barrett Wrote:  I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see Rice fall outside of the top-20 in USNWR rankings within the next 5 years. This is pure, wild speculation on my part, so I have nothing to base this hunch on. Other schools are being more aggressive and using their branding more intelligently than Rice is.

Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton--these are schools at the top of the heap--and their brands seem more valuable today than ten years ago. I don't think the Rice name is somehow more valuable now than it was in 2004. Rice is currently tied with Notre Dame and BEHIND Vanderbilt. We may think that that doesn't sound right, but I think the rest of the world thinks it does.

Many years ago, Rice was unquestionably the best in the south and an alternative to the Ivy Leagues and MIT. These days it seems well behind them. Although the slide is not anywhere near as bad as in athletics, I see some parallels. Part of the problem might be that we have similarly slid in our endowment, and that might put constraints on everything else. When I matriculated in 1968, we had the highest endowment per student and were something like 6th in overall endowment. When last I looked, several years ago, we had fallen to about 20th overall.
As someone who was recently completed their college search and was admitted to Rice, I feel like I can contribute to this subject from a slightly different perspective. I attend a very competitive private all-male high school around Boston. The two most common schools for students at my school to attend are BC and Holy Cross (Ranked #31 (university) in USNWR and #25 (LAC) respectively), but last year we had four students attend Harvard, one Princeton, one Yale, one Dartmouth, three Notre Dame, five UVA, and one Vandy in addition to having ~20 matriculate to NESCAC (Bowdoin, Bates, Colby, Wesleyan, Middlebury, Amherst, Williams, etc..) schools. Anyway, I just picked some random competitive schools to illustrate my forthcoming point. Over the past seven years, my school has only averaged 1.2 APPLICANTS per year to Rice. Assuming my school is relatively representative of the general trends of the Boston area (and perhaps the northeast more broadly?), Rice simply isn't attracting enough applicants from the Northeast, arguably the most "talent-rich" area of the country, to keep up with peer institutions.

When I visited Vandy and Georgia Tech, it felt as if a third of the student population was from the DC to Boston corridor. When I visited Rice, it was clear that the student body was far more regional, which actually appealed to me. At Vandy, it seemed as if the northeastern students there were try-hards trying to act "southern" but failing miserably. In some ways, I hope Rice stays the way it is as I have not even started my time there. At the same time, I understand how the slide in the rankings is frustrating to alumni. This is just possibly one contributing factor that I felt I could talk about a little bit and by no means am I saying that I am not excited to attend Rice!!!

Welcome to Rice! (You are coming, right?)

I think recruiting in the Northeast can be a particularly hard nut to crack for a Texas school. The story I always think of is from a friend of mine, a lovely Jewish girl from Long Island I met early our freshman year since we were both at Lovett. Anyway, Lovett had gone with "RodeO-week" for its freshman orientation ("O-week") theme, so the groups were named things like "Wranglers" and there was plenty of cowboy slang in the materials. She later told me that when she got the O-week stuff in the mail, she cried. It hit all her fears about spending the next 4 years in hicksville.

But of course, she had a great time at Rice. Fell in love with another friend of mine, a Shepherd School double-bassist / guitarist / font geek from Houston. They lived in Boston for a few years while he went to Berklee and she went to Harvard Divinity School, got married, moved to Atlanta, had kids, she got her doctorate in Religious Studies from Emory and he produces music and does guitar gigs. Fascinating people.
02-15-2014 08:20 PM
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georgewebb Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Rice U Dropped from Top 10
(02-15-2014 08:20 PM)JOwl Wrote:  The story I always think of is from a friend of mine, a lovely Jewish girl from Long Island I met early our freshman year since we were both at Lovett. Anyway, Lovett had gone with "RodeO-week" for its freshman orientation ("O-week") theme, so the groups were named things like "Wranglers" and there was plenty of cowboy slang in the materials. She later told me that when she got the O-week stuff in the mail, she cried.

Thanks for posting this. O-Week themes are one of the most useless, sophomoric, counter-productive aspects of the entire Rice experience -- and especially unfortunate in that they are one of the very first aspects that a new student encounters. Year after year, the first visual impression that a freshman (and his or her parents) have is that, instead of arriving at a selective university, they've somehow landed at a summer camp for 14-year-olds.

It is probably safe to say that the only purpose O-Week themes generally serve is the puerile gratification of the coordinators -- which, compared to all the other considerations that should go into designing a college orientation, should be at the bottom of the list rather than the top.

Yet no one at Rice ever seems to step back and think thoughtfully, "Is this really the first experience that students and their families should have?"

(02-15-2014 08:20 PM)JOwl Wrote:  It hit all her fears about spending the next 4 years in hicksville.

Ironically, I have a very good Rice friend from a town called Hicksville -- on Long Island! And yes, he is Jewish.
02-15-2014 08:48 PM
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JOwl Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Rice U Dropped from Top 10
(02-15-2014 08:48 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  
(02-15-2014 08:20 PM)JOwl Wrote:  The story I always think of is from a friend of mine, a lovely Jewish girl from Long Island I met early our freshman year since we were both at Lovett. Anyway, Lovett had gone with "RodeO-week" for its freshman orientation ("O-week") theme, so the groups were named things like "Wranglers" and there was plenty of cowboy slang in the materials. She later told me that when she got the O-week stuff in the mail, she cried.

Thanks for posting this. O-Week themes are one of the most useless, sophomoric, counter-productive aspects of the entire Rice experience -- and especially unfortunate in that they are one of the very first aspects that a new student encounters. Year after year, the first visual impression that a freshman (and his or her parents) have is that, instead of arriving at a selective university, they've somehow landed at a summer camp for 14-year-olds.

It is probably safe to say that the only purpose O-Week themes generally serve is the puerile gratification of the coordinators -- which, compared to all the other considerations that should go into designing a college orientation, should be at the bottom of the list rather than the top.

Yet no one at Rice ever seems to step back and think thoughtfully, "Is this really the first experience that students and their families should have?"

(02-15-2014 08:20 PM)JOwl Wrote:  It hit all her fears about spending the next 4 years in hicksville.

Ironically, I have a very good Rice friend from a town called Hicksville -- on Long Island! And yes, he is Jewish.

I don't know, George, I think Beer Bike themes might like to have word with you about most sophomoric/puerile. One year "Pedalphilia... the love of pedaling" won for Lovett's theme, but the women's bike team refused to ride so we changed it (to "Tequila me Elmo", if I'm remembering my years correctly). I was disappointed at the time -- arguing "When did our celebration of alcoholism suddenly get all moral?". But nearly 20 years later, I've changed my opinion.

Aaaanyway, despite my friend's anecdote, I actually have no problem with O-week themes. Always thought they were silly, fun, and a little clever. Just like Rice. And even if it isn't a great first impression, you've got four years to draw a truer one. Heck, Garth Brooks' "Rodeo" -- the unofficial theme song for the week -- was a staple for my friends and me at our weddings, and we still sing it at karaoke, and there's not a country fan among us.

edit: the Hicksville thing is great!
(This post was last modified: 02-15-2014 11:18 PM by JOwl.)
02-15-2014 10:51 PM
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dragon2owl Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Rice U Dropped from Top 10
Kiplinger's Personal Finance has Rice #3 on Best Values in Private Universities, #1 for Best Value Private Small Colleges, and #1 Best Private College Values in the West/Southwest. http://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/colle...ties-2014/
03-07-2014 09:57 AM
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Barrett Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Rice U Dropped from Top 10
(02-15-2014 08:48 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  O-Week themes are one of the most useless, sophomoric, counter-productive aspects of the entire Rice experience -- and especially unfortunate in that they are one of the very first aspects that a new student encounters. Year after year, the first visual impression that a freshman (and his or her parents) have is that, instead of arriving at a selective university, they've somehow landed at a summer camp for 14-year-olds.

It is probably safe to say that the only purpose O-Week themes generally serve is the puerile gratification of the coordinators -- which, compared to all the other considerations that should go into designing a college orientation, should be at the bottom of the list rather than the top.

Man, I could not agree more. I came from St. John's, where, out of my class of 116, 12 matriculated at Rice (6 ended up at Lovett somehow), 8 at Princeton, 3 at Harvard, 4 at Yale, and 5 at Penn. A bunch of others at places like Duke, Middlebury, Amherst, Williams, etc.

I remember one of my classmates telling me, before college decisions came out, that she felt Rice was a good school (it was ranked 12 in USNWR at the time), but full of immature, sophomoric people. She ended up going to Yale. I didn't pay much attention to her assessment of Rice.

When I got to O-Week, I remember thinking, "Holy sh-t. She was right." O-Week made a terrible first impression on me.
03-07-2014 10:37 AM
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ChicagoOwl (BS '07) Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Rice U Dropped from Top 10
(02-15-2014 08:20 PM)JOwl Wrote:  ... from Long Island
... hicksville.

Meh. I don't have much empathy/care for the stereotypes young people from NYC area have about land beyond their immediate vicinity.
(This post was last modified: 03-07-2014 12:14 PM by ChicagoOwl (BS '07).)
03-07-2014 12:11 PM
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Post: #35
RE: Rice U Dropped from Top 10
(03-07-2014 12:11 PM)ChicagoOwl (BS 07) Wrote:  
(02-15-2014 08:20 PM)JOwl Wrote:  ... from Long Island
... hicksville.

Meh. I don't have much empathy/care for the stereotypes young people from NYC area have about land beyond their immediate vicinity.

No, but we do want those people to become more well-rounded and worldly, don't we? (if I understand your post)

The only way you change a local perception is to either 'invade' that area or to invite those people to come see you and then return with a better perception to tell.
03-07-2014 12:58 PM
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Post: #36
RE: Rice U Dropped from Top 10
(03-07-2014 10:37 AM)Barrett Wrote:  
(02-15-2014 08:48 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  O-Week themes are one of the most useless, sophomoric, counter-productive aspects of the entire Rice experience -- and especially unfortunate in that they are one of the very first aspects that a new student encounters. Year after year, the first visual impression that a freshman (and his or her parents) have is that, instead of arriving at a selective university, they've somehow landed at a summer camp for 14-year-olds.

It is probably safe to say that the only purpose O-Week themes generally serve is the puerile gratification of the coordinators -- which, compared to all the other considerations that should go into designing a college orientation, should be at the bottom of the list rather than the top.

Man, I could not agree more. I came from St. John's, where, out of my class of 116, 12 matriculated at Rice (6 ended up at Lovett somehow), 8 at Princeton, 3 at Harvard, 4 at Yale, and 5 at Penn. A bunch of others at places like Duke, Middlebury, Amherst, Williams, etc.

I remember one of my classmates telling me, before college decisions came out, that she felt Rice was a good school (it was ranked 12 in USNWR at the time), but full of immature, sophomoric people. She ended up going to Yale. I didn't pay much attention to her assessment of Rice.

When I got to O-Week, I remember thinking, "Holy sh-t. She was right." O-Week made a terrible first impression on me.

This anecdote actually kind of makes me happy that O-week scares some of these people away.

One of my favorite things about attending Rice was that I didn't have to deal with a bunch of uptight pricks.

Perhaps the initial impression and experience comes off as childish (which I do have a problem with) but the fact is that O-week helps to bring a lot of students out of their shells and helps to dispel a lot of the misconceptions about Rice and its students (but it does often reinforce some). It could use some major changes, but I'd give it more than a passing grade, especially if it helps keep people that are too close minded or put off by some strange hi-jinks to pass up a world class education.
03-07-2014 01:40 PM
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Antarius Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Rice U Dropped from Top 10
(03-07-2014 12:11 PM)ChicagoOwl (BS 07) Wrote:  
(02-15-2014 08:20 PM)JOwl Wrote:  ... from Long Island
... hicksville.

Meh. I don't have much empathy/care for the stereotypes young people from NYC area have about land beyond their immediate vicinity.

Yes and no. I don't care for them in the sense that I think they are overly simplistic and untrue, but I care about the fact that they exist. Rice needs to care about these stereotypes and find a way to market around them to attract the best talent. A lot of people think Houston is a hick town - it is unbelievable. As someone who applied from the greater Boston area as "home" while living abroad, I experienced several different bewildered expressions and questions from those around.

Heck, I was waiting for my luggage at the airport and ended up talking to a couple people who were coming to DFW from Orange county - they were surprised by Dallas and expected it to be "more country as it was in Texas". Go figure.
03-07-2014 01:50 PM
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Post: #38
RE: Rice U Dropped from Top 10
There are a lot of places in the US to get a world-class education. When you are talking about people who are choosing among Yale, Rice, Duke, Middlebury, Chicago, Pomona, etc., I don't think people are passing up on a world-class education when they are put off by the lameness of Rice's O-Week. They are simply opting to get their world-class education elsewhere.

That said, I assume there are those who absolutely love O-Week. I and most of my circle of friends at Rice just didn't share that view. But surely not liking O-Week does not automatically mean one has no sense of humor and is uptight?

It's not silliness that we opposed; it was how lame, how simplistic, how uninsightful and stale the silliness of O-Week is.

Let me put it this way: I absolutely love the old Lovett cheer ("C-ck suck motherf-ck . . .") because it was a funny, knowing send-up of college-aged immaturity and scatology. Eighteen-year-olds love innuendo involving sex or bodily functions, especially when they are living away from home for the first time. So the Lovett cheer just goes full bore and is nothing but a tirade of every dirty word/idea one can think of. In that way, it's brilliant. It actually is poking fun, and when there are 200 kids yelling this grotesque cheer in perfect unison, the effect is absurd and hilarious.

It's not uptightness that makes some dislike O-Week. I actually think it's sophistication. And I think more students than not think O-Week (not the actual orientation itself, but the themes and many of the activities/games) is lame. I think George is actually right: it is more for the coordinators than for the participants.
03-07-2014 04:27 PM
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Post: #39
RE: Rice U Dropped from Top 10
I really enjoyed O-week circa 1997. That said, I could easily imagine some of the more sophomoric stuff being removed and liking it just as much. Certainly my peer group liked it more than they disliked it. I viewed most of the sophomoric stuff as an homage/parody of what we were leaving behind, more than a reflection of what I expected life to be like at Rice moving forward. And lots of silly/stupid ways to get to know some people quickly.
03-07-2014 04:40 PM
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georgewebb Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Rice U Dropped from Top 10
(03-07-2014 01:40 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Perhaps the initial impression and experience comes off as childish (which I do have a problem with)
That was the extent of my observation.

Quote:...but I'd give it more than a passing grade
I didn't argue otherwise.
03-07-2014 04:41 PM
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