My stepson did not get accepted into Madison and I didn't even bother contacting admissions.
If he couldn't make it on his own merits, then he didn't deserve to be there.

Would it have been nice? Obviously. But now he is exactly where he should be based on his performance.

Would my donations have increased for the remainder of my life. Sure.

(03-30-2014 01:57 PM)91Alum Wrote:  

(01-29-2014 09:37 AM)Potomac Wrote:  I agree. I've heard too many cases of JMU alumni's children going to another school because they didn't get in. Some preference should be given to legacies.

I went to a session given by the JMU Admissions Office (at GMU ironically enough) that the Alumni Association sponsored. We were invited to bring our high school (or soon to be high school) kids to hear first hand what they look for, what they don't etc. As alumni, we were given name tags, and those tags had a green ribbon on them if you were a donor. At the beginning somebody from the Alumni Association made a point to thank the alumni who were donors, etc, etc. One lady from the Admissions Office leapt from her seat and (very enthusiastically) said "Bear in mind, the fact that you donate money to the school has no influence at all in the process."

I leaned to the guy next to me and said "if they want the checks to keep coming, it better matter".

As I thought about it more, I couldn't believe how obnoxious and tone deaf that woman was. Even if it's true, why would you leap out of your seat to say that to a room full of donors?

No I agree 100% that they need to give preference to legacies and even more to donor legacies. If the school wants to build generations of proud alumni and donors and build that endowment... I hate to break it, but legacies matter.
I'm not saying accept a kid with a 2.5 GPA, but if you're letting in 3.5 GPA's routinely, why not let a legacy get a 3.3 relaxed GPA. They don't have to publicly admit it.

(03-30-2014 06:59 PM)Potomac Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 01:57 PM)91Alum Wrote:  

(01-29-2014 09:37 AM)Potomac Wrote:  I agree. I've heard too many cases of JMU alumni's children going to another school because they didn't get in. Some preference should be given to legacies.

I went to a session given by the JMU Admissions Office (at GMU ironically enough) that the Alumni Association sponsored. We were invited to bring our high school (or soon to be high school) kids to hear first hand what they look for, what they don't etc. As alumni, we were given name tags, and those tags had a green ribbon on them if you were a donor. At the beginning somebody from the Alumni Association made a point to thank the alumni who were donors, etc, etc. One lady from the Admissions Office leapt from her seat and (very enthusiastically) said "Bear in mind, the fact that you donate money to the school has no influence at all in the process."

I leaned to the guy next to me and said "if they want the checks to keep coming, it better matter".

As I thought about it more, I couldn't believe how obnoxious and tone deaf that woman was. Even if it's true, why would you leap out of your seat to say that to a room full of donors?

No I agree 100% that they need to give preference to legacies and even more to donor legacies. If the school wants to build generations of proud alumni and donors and build that endowment... I hate to break it, but legacies matter.
I'm not saying accept a kid with a 2.5 GPA, but if you're letting in 3.5 GPA's routinely, why not let a legacy get a 3.3 relaxed GPA. They don't have to publicly admit it.

I'm all about the Thornton Mellon approach, give enough money and I'll not only let your kid in I'll name an institution after you.

$100,000 = 100 SAT points plus .1 GPA (give JMU $500,000 to the endowment and you're kid can get in with a 1050 and 3.0). It's not like they have to stay in school, just get admitted and frankly if they can donate that much their kid probably doesn't need to worry about a job after college anyways. But that money could do a lot of good things for the school and other serious students.

(03-30-2014 07:11 PM)JMaddy Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 06:59 PM)Potomac Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 01:57 PM)91Alum Wrote:  

(01-29-2014 09:37 AM)Potomac Wrote:  I agree. I've heard too many cases of JMU alumni's children going to another school because they didn't get in. Some preference should be given to legacies.

I went to a session given by the JMU Admissions Office (at GMU ironically enough) that the Alumni Association sponsored. We were invited to bring our high school (or soon to be high school) kids to hear first hand what they look for, what they don't etc. As alumni, we were given name tags, and those tags had a green ribbon on them if you were a donor. At the beginning somebody from the Alumni Association made a point to thank the alumni who were donors, etc, etc. One lady from the Admissions Office leapt from her seat and (very enthusiastically) said "Bear in mind, the fact that you donate money to the school has no influence at all in the process."

I leaned to the guy next to me and said "if they want the checks to keep coming, it better matter".

As I thought about it more, I couldn't believe how obnoxious and tone deaf that woman was. Even if it's true, why would you leap out of your seat to say that to a room full of donors?

No I agree 100% that they need to give preference to legacies and even more to donor legacies. If the school wants to build generations of proud alumni and donors and build that endowment... I hate to break it, but legacies matter.
I'm not saying accept a kid with a 2.5 GPA, but if you're letting in 3.5 GPA's routinely, why not let a legacy get a 3.3 relaxed GPA. They don't have to publicly admit it.

I'm all about the Thornton Mellon approach, give enough money and I'll not only let your kid in I'll name an institution after you.

$100,000 = 100 SAT points plus .1 GPA (give JMU $500,000 to the endowment and you're kid can get in with a 1050 and 3.0). It's not like they have to stay in school, just get admitted and frankly if they can donate that much their kid probably doesn't need to worry about a job after college anyways. But that money could do a lot of good things for the school and other serious students.

This system has existed at UVa for years. So many kids get in there based on connections and $$$. There is a reason that school is rolling in $$$.

You think Paul Tudor Jones's kids had any issue getting in?

This is totally off topic but here it goes...

There are a lot of ways to measure somebody. High SAT does not guarantee a successful student and better yet, a high quality, high performing citizen. Yet, it is a major decision point for many schools when GPA's and curriculum are equal. One school, for me, really sticks out from others. It is Wake Forest. The admission rep at WF said something that really stuck with me. We strongly encourage interviews. He said, we do not want the SAT determining our student body. We determine our student body. The clarity and soundness of that statement just stuck with me and still does to this day. Just thought I'd share. Not trying to re-write JMU admission policy -just something to share.

He's not smart enough, and that's how that works.

I'm not going to speak to whether or not legacy students should get preference, but I will say that while I gave a little here and there before my son got accepted to jmu, my donations to the school increased significantly afterwards for what that's worth.


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(03-30-2014 08:41 PM)GeoJMU Wrote:  I'm not going to speak to whether or not legacy students should get preference, but I will say that while I gave a little here and there before my son got accepted to jmu, my donations to the school increased significantly afterwards for what that's worth.


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This is where I am am at. I have a 9th grader in Maryland. She says she wants to go to JMU to be a teacher. With no pressure from me. If that happens I will so much more inclined to increase my donations in addition to the out of state tuition. She is in honors classes so she should be a strong candidate. I think the legacy thing makes a lot of sense.


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(03-30-2014 02:01 PM)NovaDukes Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 01:33 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  So now people are mad at JMU for not admitting kids who don't have the credentials? We've gone to a whole new level. They should have done better.

I'm not mad, JMU didn't do anything wrong. Since we were talking about legacy students and our aging alums being in a position to donate more later in life and through estate planning, I thought I would share my experience. JMU did not owe me anything in exchange for the time and money I have freely given them. On the flip side, if my son got turned down, I was under no obligation to continue the same level of giving during my life or at my death. I lowered the amount I gave them last year and altered my estate planning. I still gave enough to have club seats and attended every home and away game this past season.

I know it's difficult , but try not to be an ass 100% of the time.

You put this very well as I feel the same. I'm not mad at JMU in any way, shape or form. I agree that my nephew would not qualify as a legacy. My point was that he was simply a good, smart kid who comes from a family who is very giving, but the kid didn't get it done on his SAT. No more, no less, as I was simply telling a story that was related to our endowment.

As so many have said, its tiny and if it is to grow we might need to tweak our admission process. I like the interview idea, but there is no way possible for this to be accomplished at JMU.

There is no way to convince me that Steve and Dee Dee Leeolou's kid wouldn't have been accepted with a 2.9 GPA and a 1100 SAT. Simply would not have happened. I have first hand knowledge of a kid getting a second look after first being rejected. After the second look he was accepted. This all happened within a two week period with the assistance of a good friend who had a close relationship with the very top of JMU.

I believe they are so overwhelmed by the numbers, that decisions are made using metrics which offer a quick result.

(03-30-2014 09:05 PM)84Breeze Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 08:41 PM)GeoJMU Wrote:  I'm not going to speak to whether or not legacy students should get preference, but I will say that while I gave a little here and there before my son got accepted to jmu, my donations to the school increased significantly afterwards for what that's worth.


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This is where I am am at. I have a 9th grader in Maryland. She says she wants to go to JMU to be a teacher. With no pressure from me. If that happens I will so much more inclined to increase my donations in addition to the out of state tuition. She is in honors classes so she should be a strong candidate. I think the legacy thing makes a lot of sense.


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It's a state school. Legacy doesn't make any sense at all. If she's bright and works hard she'll get in. You should get in on your own merits. Simple as that.

Again not speaking to whether it should or shouldn't matter, we can't all say that govt or the university needs to operate more like a business but on the other hand not expect them to do what's in the best interest of the business/university - assuming that legacy students really do increase donations to the busines (the university )


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(03-30-2014 02:01 PM)NovaDukes Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 01:33 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  So now people are mad at JMU for not admitting kids who don't have the credentials? We've gone to a whole new level. They should have done better.

...
I know it's difficult , but try not to be an ass 100% of the time.

(03-30-2014 08:26 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  He's not smart enough, and that's how that works.

Try harder.

(03-30-2014 09:36 PM)POTUS#4 Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 02:01 PM)NovaDukes Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 01:33 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  So now people are mad at JMU for not admitting kids who don't have the credentials? We've gone to a whole new level. They should have done better.

...
I know it's difficult , but try not to be an ass 100% of the time.

(03-30-2014 08:26 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  He's not smart enough, and that's how that works.

Try harder.

That's probably as good as we're going to get.

(03-30-2014 09:30 PM)GeoJMU Wrote:  Again not speaking to whether it should or shouldn't matter, we can't all say that govt or the university needs to operate more like a business but on the other hand not expect them to do what's in the best interest of the business/university - assuming that legacy students really do increase donations to the busines (the university )


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I don't know how much legacies increase donations, but I can promise you I love my sons more than I love JMU, as does every parent on this board. Right or wrong, rational or not, a rejection letter from JMU would spell the end of my donations. Period. End of story. My future donations will go to where they most directly benefit my kids - not someone else's. That's just the way it is.

(03-30-2014 10:02 PM)91Alum Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 09:30 PM)GeoJMU Wrote:  Again not speaking to whether it should or shouldn't matter, we can't all say that govt or the university needs to operate more like a business but on the other hand not expect them to do what's in the best interest of the business/university - assuming that legacy students really do increase donations to the busines (the university )


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I don't know how much legacies increase donations, but I can promise you I love my sons more than I love JMU, as does every parent on this board. Right or wrong, rational or not, a rejection letter from JMU would spell the end of my donations. Period. End of story. My future donations will go to where they most directly benefit my kids - not someone else's. That's just the way it is.

Living in Charlotte, having a daughter who is 5 years from attending college, what would I do should she attend Carolina, Appy or any school for that matter other than JMU? I'd most likely drop my season tickets, but not sure about a financial gift. I don't see me giving to any other school. I will say that Duke has her on some sort of watch list which I am very excited about. Should she attend, I very well could toss them a bone or two as I proceed to go broke paying for that education.

(03-30-2014 05:39 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  My stepson did not get accepted into Madison and I didn't even bother contacting admissions.
If he couldn't make it on his own merits, then he didn't deserve to be there.

Would it have been nice? Obviously. But now he is exactly where he should be based on his performance.

Would my donations have increased for the remainder of my life. Sure.

My niece did not get in and I told her that I would not go bat for her if she didn't have the credentials, and she didn't. She is now at Blue Ridge Community College in the JMU guaranteed program, as an out of state student, and is making the grades. If you want something in life, you need to earn it and she is learning a life lesson and is taking responsibility. I have a lot of respect for her in not giving up. She will eventually be a Duke and will appreciate it more versus having something handed to her. She is making me proud.

(03-30-2014 10:34 PM)jmad1son Wrote:  

(03-30-2014 05:39 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  My stepson did not get accepted into Madison and I didn't even bother contacting admissions.
If he couldn't make it on his own merits, then he didn't deserve to be there.

Would it have been nice? Obviously. But now he is exactly where he should be based on his performance.

Would my donations have increased for the remainder of my life. Sure.

My niece did not get in and I told her that I would not go bat for her if she didn't have the credentials, and she didn't. She is now at Blue Ridge Community College in the JMU guaranteed program, as an out of state student, and is making the grades. If you want something in life, you need to earn it and she is learning a life lesson and is taking responsibility. I have a lot of respect for her in not giving up. She will eventually be a Duke and will appreciate it more versus having something handed to her. She is making me proud.

She will appreciate her time at JMU (when it happens) more than most. Good for her.

(03-30-2014 10:34 PM)jmad1son Wrote:  My niece did not get in and I told her that I would not go bat for her if she didn't have the credentials, and she didn't.

Genuine curiosity - what kind of stature does one need within the JMU community in which 'going to bat' for a rejected prospective student would make a difference?

This seems like an interesting offshoot of the Legacy preferential treatment argument.

My 0.02. Don't laugh but this is how I look at things. I know it's overly simplistic. There are 15 public universities/colleges in Va. JMU is number 10 in lowest tuition and fees.(9176) These schools are lower than JMU.(odu, uva-wise, nsu, Radford, vsu). Not our peer institutions. If we raised our tuition/fees to the average of the top 7, we would double our endowment in one year alone.(68 million).
I don't think it's a badge of honor to be ranked high for most affordable schools to attend. I think this just makes more apply who are looking for a bargain and those folks may not continue to give once they graduate.
BTW, I have 2 at JMU. As someone who bleeds purple, it gets old constantly hearing about Jmu's money woes, but then seeing how inexpensive our tuition/fees are.

That goes back to the ideal of "What is JMU's mission". What is Out-of-State tuition versus In-State tuition these days? Back in the day, I just remember a lot of in-state students driving some really nice cars since the in-state tuition was so low.