http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/1...abor-union

Maybe Northwestern should educate its football players (or at least goB1GCats in his initial comment)on how to spell "payed" if they want to reap any financial rewards...

http://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/1wd...to/cf0z0de

I'm a bit divided about this. I certainly understand that the aches and pains of football and other sports often have lifelong debilitating qualities (even for kickers) and as such, especially given the billions of dollars involved annually, there should be some way to make sure that these injuries are covered as part of a scholarship... but by the same token, an athletic scholarship is ACTUALLY an academic scholarship and always should be. We need to focus on the idea that athletes exchange their skills and the public outreach that this gives the University for an academic scholarship. It is no different from exchanging your exceptional academic qualities or your services as a student aid for that scholarship.... because it goes to fund your academic progress and not your athletic progress which is funded by a different vehicle.

It is unconscionable to me that unlike many of our peers, we make it so difficult to combine academic scholarships for athletes and academic scholarships for skilled academics for some of our equivalency sports, particularly baseball which brings us so much positive attention... which is really no different from someone who combines a partial physics scholarship with any other scholarship or even work-study to fund their education... and frankly, things like health insurance, particularly for those injuries should be covered as part of it. Under PPACA, this would be incredibly cheap to offer if they can work out a mechanism to separate those issues from other health issues to establish some sort of cost sharing.

Surely a school in the Chicago area can round up some good old-fashioned union-busting goons!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKSnRkARktk

Or do the goons have a union now too?

Chicago Board rules that Northwestern football players qualify as employees and can unionize.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...ortscenter

Here is the ruling...

http://www.espn.go.com/pdf/2014/0326/esp...cision.PDF

This is the first step in a long process. Northwestern can file a request for review by the full NLRB by April 9, but the full board may opt to let the election proceed. If the election goes forward and the vote is for a union, Northwestern can file objections to the election with the full board. Assuming those are denied, Northwestern can refuse to bargain with the union, be found in violation of sections 8(a)(1) and 8(a)(5) of the National Labor Relations Act, and then file an appeal with either the 7th Circuit or the D.C. Circuit of the U.S. Court of Appeals. The legal question whether student-athletes are employees under the Act would be looked at de novo by the appeals court. So, it may take years for a court to rule on whether the Regional Director's conclusion that student-athletes can organize under the National Labor Relations Act is a valid reading of the statute.

A damning indictment of modern college football:

The NRLB Wrote:The Employer's Grant-in-Aid Scholarship Football Players are not "Primarily Students"

(p. 18)

Interesting possibilities if players are employees. A late hit and the opposing QB tears his ACL. Clearly an action by an employee in the scope of his employment. Let the lawsuits begin.

(03-26-2014 04:37 PM)Houston Owl Wrote:  Interesting possibilities if players are employees. A late hit and the opposing QB tears his ACL. Clearly an action by an employee in the scope of his employment. Let the lawsuits begin.

I can see work comp coming into play but are you suggesting a lawsuit against the employer (opposing school) for injury? If so why doesn't this occur with the NFL or other pro sports with player's unions?

(03-26-2014 04:18 PM)NoodleOwl Wrote:  A damning indictment of modern college football:

The NRLB Wrote:The Employer's Grant-in-Aid Scholarship Football Players are not "Primarily Students"

(p. 18)

just wow...

At Northwestern


That's a bit like saying that someone who works a full-time job to afford his school isn't primarily a student. I think most honest people would disagree. The 'job' makes the primary goal possible. This implies that their primary goal is football.

I haven't been on this site for awhile..needed a break honestly after my son graduated and our family "recovered" from the experience. Overall I will say it was 80% positive...but that other 20% was just sometimes unbearable.

But that is another topic for another day. I will say that something needs to be done. This process is broken and the NCAA and the people with power and money are making that money off these kids. Yes I know that my son received a full ride and yes he graduated from a prestigious university and I am very proud of him and I still cheer for the Owls!

One example...Rice charged approximately $14,000 per year for "regular"students to live in the dorms while attending school there. The per diem that my son received for living expenses started at ~$850 per month...and was reduced to ~$775 after it was determined they could sometimes make it to the servery to eat. He could not have lived in Houston on that amount. Of course his parents helped offset that difference but that isn't possible for everyone. Other students can find summer jobs or part time jobs to make up this difference. Football is a full time job.

I wouldn't trade his time as a Rice Owl for anything and he wouldn't either...but as a parent who has lived thru this process I can tell you that I don't believe that this whole unionizing thing is the answer but something needs to change. The NCAA process is flawed.

(03-26-2014 08:12 PM)howard61 Wrote:  One example...Rice charged approximately $14,000 per year for "regular"students to live in the dorms while attending school there. The per diem that my son received for living expenses started at ~$850 per month...and was reduced to ~$775 after it was determined they could sometimes make it to the servery to eat.

I am a little confused and I hope you can clarify. Did your son receive:
(a) housing in his college at no cost;
(b) the campus meal plan at no cost; and
© a per diem of $775 to $850 per month?

Or was © provided in lieu of items (a) and/or (b)?

At what point does it become impossible to justify the tax-exempt status of college athletics departments? How can you call yourself a non-profit if you have 'employees' who, in the eyes of the NLRB, are there for the primary purpose of earning the school money? Money which isn't paying to support the education mission of the university, money that's being used to pay coaches and expand stadiums and build practice facilities and fancy locker rooms?

Somebody wants to get their name in the paper.

Their analogies are not quite accurate. I'll pull from an article that references the four findings of the ruling.

You have to be careful comparing an intern, resident or fellow to a football player. First, these physicians are licensed employees providing medical care and paid for it. They are paid to work and become more proficient and knowledgable about their craft under the direction of a more experienced clinician. They are not students but highly supervised employees.

Second, academic faculty don't sponsor athletic endeavors. Hmm, an OC who can sponsor performance physiology in a practical setting.

Third, football labors don't connect to their studies. The whole game is applied force vectors and trigonometry. Doesn't get more academic than that.

Fourth, scholarships for football and not academics. That's not a universal truth in all cases. It is true that they referenced the time spent on football. However, it is no different than say an architect major on scholarship designing something outside of class or even working on their projects at all hours of the night.

My take on this ruling......Rice takes Northwestern's place in the Big 10.

The ruling only applies to private university players on full scholarship. Are the football players going to strike if they don't get what they want? Northwestern can be preemptive and just drop football as a sponsored sport. The Big 10 state schools won't let Northwestern have an advantage in recruiting by being able to offer greater benefits to their 85 players. How is Northwestern going to recruit if the only tool the players have to force concessions from Northwestern is to strike? What football player is going to want to go to a place where the players won't play if an agreement isn't reached? We may see private schools being forced out of state school dominated leagues because they operate under a different set of rules.

If it is a health issue, create a fund for a tail insurance policy for service related injuries. Gee, that sounds just like the VA.

The good news is that the P5 schools are getting their just rewards for their greedy behavior. I find it ironic that in the formative years of college football, many physicians were hired to coach football to legitimize the academic value of the sport. I wonder if Northwestern is looking for an OC?

(03-26-2014 04:10 PM)OwlHOG Wrote:  This is the first step in a long process. Northwestern can file a request for review by the full NLRB by April 9, but the full board may opt to let the election proceed. If the election goes forward and the vote is for a union, Northwestern can file objections to the election with the full board. Assuming those are denied, Northwestern can refuse to bargain with the union, be found in violation of sections 8(a)(1) and 8(a)(5) of the National Labor Relations Act, and then file an appeal with either the 7th Circuit or the D.C. Circuit of the U.S. Court of Appeals. The legal question whether student-athletes are employees under the Act would be looked at de novo by the appeals court. So, it may take years for a court to rule on whether the Regional Director's conclusion that student-athletes can organize under the National Labor Relations Act is a valid reading of the statute.

Excellent summation of the legal situation! Further, any decision of the Court of Appeals could be appealed to the Supreme Court.

As a labor lawyer, I view the Region's ruling with some alarm. If the student-athletes are employees for NLRA purposes, what about Title VII, the FLSA, ERISA, OSHA, Obamacare et al? We may be going down a slippery slope.

They want to be paid? Fine. Let them go through regular admissions.

Also, if the women are not paid an appropriate amount (Title IX), more lawsuits will ensue.

(03-26-2014 04:43 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  

(03-26-2014 04:37 PM)Houston Owl Wrote:  Interesting possibilities if players are employees. A late hit and the opposing QB tears his ACL. Clearly an action by an employee in the scope of his employment. Let the lawsuits begin.

I can see work comp coming into play but are you suggesting a lawsuit against the employer (opposing school) for injury? If so why doesn't this occur with the NFL or other pro sports with player's unions?

Hey, Tiki, such suits have happened when the intent to injure was pretty clear. Do you remember Rudy Tomjanovich's suit against Kermit Washington and the LA Lakers? The intent to injure is somewhat less clear in late hit situations.

There are provisions in the collective bargaining agreements in pre sports on how injuries are to be treated.

(03-27-2014 12:20 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  They want to be paid? Fine. Let them go through regular admissions.

Also, if the women are not paid an appropriate amount (Title IX), more lawsuits will ensue.

If it comes to this, keep the academics and work separate. Hire yourself a player. If he wants to go to school, too, let him do it the same way as any other full time worker - part-time and at night, at his own expense. If he cannot get into rice, he could go to UH while playing for us.

next the band players will join the musicians union. The cheerleaders will be in the marketing Employees Union. And nobody will lift a finger for a game if somebody is on strike. Will the players cross a picket line of the Groundskeepers Union?

Good way to ruin college sports.

I'll admit I know little about legal matters. This just boggles my mind.

Coumadin started me to think about this some more. Coumadin's trade name is Warfarin. It is named after the Wisconsin Alumni Research Foundation. The foundation was formed to patent and commercialize the University of Wisconsin's research and profit from it. WARF has a nearly $2billion endowment. It got it mostly from Vit D fortification of milk.

To me this is analogous to UW chem majors bargaining for a less rigorous learning environment and expecting a check from the school afterwards thanks to the commercial exploitation of their previous research.

This just seems to be a money grab for a few enterprising people to administer the "national athletic fund".

Nobody is forcing players to accept a scholarship. Obviously, if they do, it has minimum performance metrics that must be met. That's life. If professional sports is your vocation, pick a 2 year vocational school to prepare you for this.

I will concede that certain excesses are present in the current environment. I also don't agree with some of them. At some point, problem solving is what it says it is. Repetition doesn't always lead to successful problem solving skills. I think there is too much emphasis on repetition and not enough on problem solving. Translation: Players can learn on their own without constant direct oversight.

Some haven't thought this through very well.