(01-28-2014 01:03 PM)HSV_BLAZER Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 12:50 PM)techdawg88 Wrote:  

Quote:The other end of the spectrum, though, is where C-USA cringes. The conference has 31 losses to teams ranked 200 or lower in the RPI. Southern Miss isn't to blame here, and neither is Louisiana Tech, which lost to USM 80-71 earlier this season and looked dominant in its Saturday win over Marshall. Neither the Golden Eagles nor the Bulldogs have a sub-200 loss.

http://www.charlestondailymail.com/Sport...1401270150

Neither has UTEP, Tulsa, and UAB.

Furthermore, 12 of the sub-200 losses came in conference games, usually when two sub-200 teams were playing each other. For instance, Rice has four sub-200 losses in conference alone. The study should focus on the 18 non-conference sub-200 losses. (I count 30 total, he counts 31.) If you eliminate the bad losses, then it will be less likely that you would even have sub-200 teams in conference and the 12 conference losses wouldn't have been possible.

(01-28-2014 01:29 PM)HSV_BLAZER Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 01:03 PM)HSV_BLAZER Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 12:50 PM)techdawg88 Wrote:  

Quote:The other end of the spectrum, though, is where C-USA cringes. The conference has 31 losses to teams ranked 200 or lower in the RPI. Southern Miss isn't to blame here, and neither is Louisiana Tech, which lost to USM 80-71 earlier this season and looked dominant in its Saturday win over Marshall. Neither the Golden Eagles nor the Bulldogs have a sub-200 loss.

http://www.charlestondailymail.com/Sport...1401270150

Neither has UTEP, Tulsa, and UAB.

Furthermore, 12 of the sub-200 losses came in conference games, usually when two sub-200 teams were playing each other. For instance, Rice has four sub-200 losses in conference alone. The study should focus on the 18 non-conference sub-200 losses. (I count 30 total, he counts 31.) If you eliminate the bad losses, then it will be less likely that you would even have sub-200 teams in conference and the 12 conference losses wouldn't have been possible.

Honestly, given the good ooc wins we have this season, the above is exactly why we are 14th overall in conference rpi.

(01-28-2014 01:35 PM)Freshy Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 01:29 PM)HSV_BLAZER Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 01:03 PM)HSV_BLAZER Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 12:50 PM)techdawg88 Wrote:  

Quote:The other end of the spectrum, though, is where C-USA cringes. The conference has 31 losses to teams ranked 200 or lower in the RPI. Southern Miss isn't to blame here, and neither is Louisiana Tech, which lost to USM 80-71 earlier this season and looked dominant in its Saturday win over Marshall. Neither the Golden Eagles nor the Bulldogs have a sub-200 loss.

http://www.charlestondailymail.com/Sport...1401270150

Neither has UTEP, Tulsa, and UAB.

Furthermore, 12 of the sub-200 losses came in conference games, usually when two sub-200 teams were playing each other. For instance, Rice has four sub-200 losses in conference alone. The study should focus on the 18 non-conference sub-200 losses. (I count 30 total, he counts 31.) If you eliminate the bad losses, then it will be less likely that you would even have sub-200 teams in conference and the 12 conference losses wouldn't have been possible.

Honestly, given the good ooc wins we have this season, the above is exactly why we are 14th overall in conference rpi.

If I'm not mistaken CUSA was either 18 or 19 going into conference action so we have gained 4 or 5 spots since then. I'm hoping CUSA can move iinto 13 or 12 by regular season's end.

(01-28-2014 01:03 PM)HSV_BLAZER Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 12:50 PM)techdawg88 Wrote:  

Quote:The other end of the spectrum, though, is where C-USA cringes. The conference has 31 losses to teams ranked 200 or lower in the RPI. Southern Miss isn't to blame here, and neither is Louisiana Tech, which lost to USM 80-71 earlier this season and looked dominant in its Saturday win over Marshall. Neither the Golden Eagles nor the Bulldogs have a sub-200 loss.

http://www.charlestondailymail.com/Sport...1401270150

Neither has UTEP, Tulsa, and UAB.

That's just it.. the top 5 (can't include ODU yet, obviously) are good, but there's never a GREAT team + a bunch of good teams to offset the bad. When Memphis was "great" in C-USA, we only had one or two good teams (UAB/UTEP or maybe the late run with USM/UAB), and a lot of weaker teams.

But I will say this is one of the things that always bugged me about "conference presitge". The year they had 8 teams get in, (I think it was 8), they had teams that were going 8-8 in conference make it in, because UCONN was so dominant, that it sort of helped raise the profile of the 8-8 teams that did lose to Uconn. A team can't even win more of it's conference games than it loses, and they still make it to the big dance?

As for a conference vs. conference matchup... You've got to figure out where to squeeze it in. You know the AAC is looking toward the Big East (or ACC if possible) if there is a conference-showdown week.

If the opportunity came along, I'd be more than happy to see a MVC matchup if BB could pull it off.

(01-28-2014 12:36 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  yeah, but the AAC loses UL and Rutgers right? and maybe the A-10 is shooting a tad high...by the time this year plays out, it may take on a different shape

For schools like USM and La Tech, it would seriously fill an OOC need.

...also thinking there would be a media benefit gained in december.

If the conference can get TV coverage than by all means, let's do it. I don't expect that a deal like this can be accomplished because at our level (unlike the ACC or Big 10) there is so much more to lose OOC. Teams in CUSA or the MVC or even the A10 only get so many opportunities to boost their resume.

I have read multiple times that some schools struggle with scheduling good OOC home games. But I am still surprised that USM couldn't call up Missouri St. before the season (current RPI 82) or Boise St (55) or Saint Louis (25) or Toledo (33) or a number of others and get a home & home.

(01-28-2014 03:04 PM)monarchoptimist Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 12:36 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  yeah, but the AAC loses UL and Rutgers right? and maybe the A-10 is shooting a tad high...by the time this year plays out, it may take on a different shape

For schools like USM and La Tech, it would seriously fill an OOC need.

...also thinking there would be a media benefit gained in december.

If the conference can get TV coverage than by all means, let's do it. I don't expect that a deal like this can be accomplished because at our level (unlike the ACC or Big 10) there is so much more to lose OOC. Teams in CUSA or the MVC or even the A10 only get so many opportunities to boost their resume.

I have read multiple times that some schools struggle with scheduling good OOC home games. But I am still surprised that USM couldn't call up Missouri St. before the season (current RPI 82) or Boise St (55) or Saint Louis (25) or Toledo (33) or a number of others and get a home & home.

fair enough to first paragraph....maybe try to sell better overall competition with better seeding potential as the end result if they are successful and we are as pathetic as they want us to be. sell us as a stepchild yet a worthy opponent??? betting a start-up sports channel like FS1 might bite.....albeit a nibble

...were all those top 100 rpi teams preseason projected and would they be willing to home/home? feel pretty confident the answer to the latter is nada...can't answer who we tried to schedule....realize we just hired a new AD and Tyndall was pretty much flying solo.

regardless, doesn't the premise of opposition both fall into the same category?

please realize this is from a USM perspective....not all schools in cusa are geographically positioned well, nor have payday potential by developing relationships with some of these schools

(01-28-2014 12:36 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 12:24 PM)monarchoptimist Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 12:10 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  This is what we should use as an argument to begin a conference challenge with the likes of say the A-10/MWC/AAC...we need something like this to develop while we are emerging and have a tad bit of fire power....next year really needs to be the year to get this started

I don't think either of those 3 are attainable. Those 3 conferences are in the top 10 of conference RPI's this year. They are more likely to start a challenge against each other than CUSA.

If something like this is to happen you have to find a peer conference--right now the best bet is the Missouri Valley but they only have 10 teams. The MAC is also close and has 12 schools so that could work.

But it begs the questions what does CUSA or either of those conferences gain from a conference challenge? If you can pit the top teams against one another then maybe it helps 1 or 2 sure up an at-large resume. But this is essentially a watered down version of Bracketbusters.

yeah, but the AAC loses UL and Rutgers right? and maybe the A-10 is shooting a tad high...by the time this year plays out, it may take on a different shape

For schools like USM and La Tech, it would seriously fill an OOC need.

...also thinking there would be a media benefit gained in december.

We need a conference like the SEC to feed on. Basketball has a bright future. CUSA SunBelt SEC WAC???

(01-28-2014 03:48 PM)cb4029 Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 12:36 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 12:24 PM)monarchoptimist Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 12:10 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  This is what we should use as an argument to begin a conference challenge with the likes of say the A-10/MWC/AAC...we need something like this to develop while we are emerging and have a tad bit of fire power....next year really needs to be the year to get this started

I don't think either of those 3 are attainable. Those 3 conferences are in the top 10 of conference RPI's this year. They are more likely to start a challenge against each other than CUSA.

If something like this is to happen you have to find a peer conference--right now the best bet is the Missouri Valley but they only have 10 teams. The MAC is also close and has 12 schools so that could work.

But it begs the questions what does CUSA or either of those conferences gain from a conference challenge? If you can pit the top teams against one another then maybe it helps 1 or 2 sure up an at-large resume. But this is essentially a watered down version of Bracketbusters.

yeah, but the AAC loses UL and Rutgers right? and maybe the A-10 is shooting a tad high...by the time this year plays out, it may take on a different shape

For schools like USM and La Tech, it would seriously fill an OOC need.

...also thinking there would be a media benefit gained in december.

We need a conference like the SEC to feed on. Basketball has a bright future. CUSA SunBelt SEC WAC???

we have played sec home/home in the past but don't they already have a challenge with the acc?

(01-28-2014 04:22 PM)Maryland Monarch Wrote:  I know one easy way for CUSA to get better...ship ECU to the AAC. That's an instant RPI boost for us.

Isn't that the truth.

(01-28-2014 03:33 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  fair enough to first paragraph....maybe try to sell better overall competition with better seeding potential as the end result if they are successful and we are as pathetic as they want us to be. sell us as a stepchild yet a worthy opponent??? betting a start-up sports channel like FS1 might bite.....albeit a nibble

...were all those top 100 rpi teams preseason projected and would they be willing to home/home? feel pretty confident the answer to the latter is nada...can't answer who we tried to schedule....realize we just hired a new AD and Tyndall was pretty much flying solo.

regardless, doesn't the premise of opposition both fall into the same category?

please realize this is from a USM perspective....not all schools in cusa are geographically positioned well, nor have payday potential by developing relationships with some of these schools

I'll provide one example from the very brief list I provided previously. Boise St had an RPI of 44 last year. They are 55 now. Do you really believe Boise St has a bunch of schools beating down there door to come play? If a home and home series had been scheduled to begin last year it would have benefited both teams each year regardless of the winner.

I get that schools need to play good schedules, I just don't understand why the individual schools can't address this issue. If we expect CUSA to be a multi-bid league then some schools who have previously not committed much in the way of resources to basketball are going to have to step up.

(01-28-2014 03:51 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 03:48 PM)cb4029 Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 12:36 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 12:24 PM)monarchoptimist Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 12:10 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  This is what we should use as an argument to begin a conference challenge with the likes of say the A-10/MWC/AAC...we need something like this to develop while we are emerging and have a tad bit of fire power....next year really needs to be the year to get this started

I don't think either of those 3 are attainable. Those 3 conferences are in the top 10 of conference RPI's this year. They are more likely to start a challenge against each other than CUSA.

If something like this is to happen you have to find a peer conference--right now the best bet is the Missouri Valley but they only have 10 teams. The MAC is also close and has 12 schools so that could work.

But it begs the questions what does CUSA or either of those conferences gain from a conference challenge? If you can pit the top teams against one another then maybe it helps 1 or 2 sure up an at-large resume. But this is essentially a watered down version of Bracketbusters.

yeah, but the AAC loses UL and Rutgers right? and maybe the A-10 is shooting a tad high...by the time this year plays out, it may take on a different shape

For schools like USM and La Tech, it would seriously fill an OOC need.

...also thinking there would be a media benefit gained in december.

We need a conference like the SEC to feed on. Basketball has a bright future. CUSA SunBelt SEC WAC???

we have played sec home/home in the past but don't they already have a challenge with the acc?

This season, the sec and big 12 played a challenge.

Since you said "the last four years" (quite selective), I'll drop 2009-10. That would make you technically correct, though I'll let the intelligent readers figure out the flaws in your reasoning:

Current
ODU - 169
ECU - 224

2012-13
ODU - 318 (YIKES!!!!)
ECU - 104

2011-12
ODU - 103
ECU - 164

2010-11
ODU - 20
ECU - 96

Average
ODU - 152.5
ECU - 147
Source: http://www.realtimerpi.com/

Is this really an argument? ODU has been in the tournament 4 times in the last 10 years. ECU hasn't been since 1993.

ODU is a major upgrade.

(01-28-2014 05:34 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  Is this really an argument? ODU has been in the tournament 4 times in the last 10 years. ECU hasn't been since 1993.

ODU is a major upgrade.

Yes it is no matter what some hypothetical future, which history says otherwise, is in store for some other team.

Glad to have ODU in CUSA. Besides, we need revenge for that a$$ whooping ya'll put on us last time we played.

LOL

I had this huge post typed up but said screw it.

The facts are CUSA 3.0 will be pretty much the same as CUSA 2.0 was. We're losing or will have lost 34 NCAA appearances since 1990 and are gaining 32. The biggest hit is obviously Memphis, but with the additions of WKU/ODU/Charlotte it averages out. The AAC is obviously a better basketball league since it has Memphis, Uconn, and Cincy, but even with those 3 the average RPI is still going to be around 130 most years (thanks to Louisville leaving). CUSA 3.0 is going to be around 160-165 average RPI most years. So about 8-10th average conference (AAC) vs the 12th-14th average conference (CUSA) starting in 2014/2015. Neither is going to be too top notch and that is why Cincy and Uconn will get out of there ASAP.

The obvious hits are that we became worse in football which was the whole point of conference realignment.

And you can make fun of UTSA all day long, but they still have more NCAA tourney appearances and NCAA tourney wins than ECU does.

edit: and yeah i had Army instead of Navy by accident, was just a typo. What I didn't realize was Navy would be football only, so that's on me. I was thinking they were becoming a full member for w/e reason.

as of right now the expected RPIs of teams in the 2015 AAC vs CUSA 3.0 will be

132 vs 164

Army??

(01-28-2014 06:49 PM)Shrack Wrote:  I had this huge post typed up but said screw it.

The facts are CUSA 3.0 will be pretty much the same as CUSA 2.0 was. We're losing or will have lost 34 NCAA appearances since 1990 and are gaining 32. The biggest hit is obviously Memphis, but with the additions of WKU/ODU/Charlotte it averages out. The AAC is obviously a better basketball league since it has Memphis, Uconn, and Cincy, but even with those 3 the average RPI is still going to be around 130 most years (thanks to Louisville leaving). CUSA 3.0 is going to be around 160-165 average RPI most years. So about 8-10th average conference (AAC) vs the 12th-14th average conference (CUSA) starting in 2014/2015. Neither is going to be too top notch and that is why Cincy and Uconn will get out of there ASAP.

If that last sentence happens, doesn't the AAC go from bad to worse? And then Memphis is right back in the same boat they were in when they were with C-USA?

Technically, CUSA 3.0 is still worse off than either of those situations, so I don't blame them for going. CUSA 3.0 has way too many 200+ RPI boat anchors right now that need to get their crap in order for basketball to be any good (just like UAB needs to start being better on the football side of things).

But it's something like

2014/2015 AAC is 132 average RPI (expected) as of right now with the inclusion of ECU/Tulane/Tulsa and no Louisville/Rutgers.
CUSA 2.0 was 140-150ish average RPI from 2012-2013.
CUSA 3.0 is 164 average RPI (expected) as of right now with the inclusion of WKU and no ECU/Tulane/Tulsa.

If the 2014/2015 AAC lost Cincy and Uconn they would be at a 153.5 average RPI right now. The AAC's got problems with teams in the middle of the RPI because there aren't any. They're all top 50 or below 150. However, if they did lose teams, you would also have to imagine that CUSA 3.0 would lose 2 of the better teams, probably in the 100-150 range. So there would still be about a 20 RPI gap, which is decently considerable.

(01-28-2014 08:37 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 06:49 PM)Shrack Wrote:  I had this huge post typed up but said screw it.

The facts are CUSA 3.0 will be pretty much the same as CUSA 2.0 was. We're losing or will have lost 34 NCAA appearances since 1990 and are gaining 32. The biggest hit is obviously Memphis, but with the additions of WKU/ODU/Charlotte it averages out. The AAC is obviously a better basketball league since it has Memphis, Uconn, and Cincy, but even with those 3 the average RPI is still going to be around 130 most years (thanks to Louisville leaving). CUSA 3.0 is going to be around 160-165 average RPI most years. So about 8-10th average conference (AAC) vs the 12th-14th average conference (CUSA) starting in 2014/2015. Neither is going to be too top notch and that is why Cincy and Uconn will get out of there ASAP.

If that last sentence happens, doesn't the AAC go from bad to worse? And then Memphis is right back in the same boat they were in when they were with C-USA?

I think that's what some were saying last year when it was all going down.....

edit: twist of irony would be if UCF gets their basketball program in shape, they may emerge as next on the white flight list....may happen anyway