(01-28-2014 10:54 AM)lenetzach Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 09:08 AM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  I never have understood where the rpi starts. Is Duke automatically made number 1 before anyone plays a game?

You're probably snickering, but for the sake of anyone who doesnt know, everyone starts at zero. It's calculated as 25% your winning percentage (weighted for home and away), 50% opponents wp, and 25% opponents' opponents wp. (Neither owp nor oowp weighted). The latter two parts comprise strength of schedule.

So it is volatile and useless early on, and settles in as more data enters the equation.

I'm not big on it, as it is of limited usefulness and can be manipulated to an extent, but if you understand how it works you can use it for what it's worth.

I.E. loading up on RPI 150 or so teams, as opposed to RPI 300 teams. In reality, neither team runs any sort of risk of knocking us off, but you get a huge RPI benefit by playing these 150 teams as opposed to 300 teams. It's fool's gold, though, because you are not at risk of losing either game.

(01-28-2014 11:02 AM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 11:02 AM)BIGDTiger Wrote:  Wow, that national schedule we've replaced UT with is amazing...wait, we didnt replace them at all. Just didnt play that game at all. Makes us look like pansies for dropping UT. Calipari & Pastner are both wrong for dropping regional rivalries. (Burning bridges)

Wears a pearl necklace.

Also has Pearl colored underwear.

(01-28-2014 11:21 AM)mairving Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 11:02 AM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 11:02 AM)BIGDTiger Wrote:  Wow, that national schedule we've replaced UT with is amazing...wait, we didnt replace them at all. Just didnt play that game at all. Makes us look like pansies for dropping UT. Calipari & Pastner are both wrong for dropping regional rivalries. (Burning bridges)

Wears a pearl necklace.

Also has Pearl colored underwear.

#snicker

(01-28-2014 11:02 AM)BIGDTiger Wrote:  Wow, that national schedule we've replaced UT with is amazing...wait, we didnt replace them at all. Just didnt play that game at all. Makes us look like pansies for dropping UT. Calipari & Pastner are both wrong for dropping regional rivalries. (Burning bridges)

All very good points because...UT is a national program...and they are ranked...and we aren't playing Oklahoma State and Gonzaga home and home...and we won't be playing Louisville home and home...and the program doesn't need to play any buy games...

(01-28-2014 11:51 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 11:02 AM)BIGDTiger Wrote:  Wow, that national schedule we've replaced UT with is amazing...wait, we didnt replace them at all. Just didnt play that game at all. Makes us look like pansies for dropping UT. Calipari & Pastner are both wrong for dropping regional rivalries. (Burning bridges)

All very good points because...UT is a national program...and they are ranked...and we aren't playing Oklahoma State and Gonzaga home and home...and we won't be playing Louisville home and home...and the program doesn't need to play any buy games...

Exactly. Who needs Ok. St. twice, Gonzaga, Louisville, Florida, and the home-and-home games moving forward when we could have played a national powerhouse like UT? I'm sure everyone here tried to explain to BIGD 50,000 times why playing UT is not benificial to us, but since he is more of an expert on the matter than Cal or Pastner I won't waste my time trying to re-explain it.

(01-28-2014 12:01 PM)QDoodle Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 11:51 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 11:02 AM)BIGDTiger Wrote:  Wow, that national schedule we've replaced UT with is amazing...wait, we didnt replace them at all. Just didnt play that game at all. Makes us look like pansies for dropping UT. Calipari & Pastner are both wrong for dropping regional rivalries. (Burning bridges)

All very good points because...UT is a national program...and they are ranked...and we aren't playing Oklahoma State and Gonzaga home and home...and we won't be playing Louisville home and home...and the program doesn't need to play any buy games...

Exactly. Who needs Ok. St. twice, Gonzaga, Louisville, Florida, and the home-and-home games moving forward when we could have played a national powerhouse like UT? I'm sure everyone here tried to explain to BIGD 50,000 times why playing UT is not benificial to us, but since he is more of an expert on the matter than Cal or Pastner I won't waste my time trying to re-explain it.

Or we could play all those games plus UT...DUH

The MEMPHIS A.D. and coach will take your suggestion under advisement, Mrs. Martin.

(01-28-2014 11:16 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 10:54 AM)lenetzach Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 09:08 AM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  I never have understood where the rpi starts. Is Duke automatically made number 1 before anyone plays a game?

You're probably snickering, but for the sake of anyone who doesnt know, everyone starts at zero. It's calculated as 25% your winning percentage (weighted for home and away), 50% opponents wp, and 25% opponents' opponents wp. (Neither owp nor oowp weighted). The latter two parts comprise strength of schedule.

So it is volatile and useless early on, and settles in as more data enters the equation.

I'm not big on it, as it is of limited usefulness and can be manipulated to an extent, but if you understand how it works you can use it for what it's worth.

I.E. loading up on RPI 150 or so teams, as opposed to RPI 300 teams. In reality, neither team runs any sort of risk of knocking us off, but you get a huge RPI benefit by playing these 150 teams as opposed to 300 teams. It's fool's gold, though, because you are not at risk of losing either game.

Yep. RPI is pretty simple mathematical calculation that punishes playing against sub 250 teams just as much as it helps to play teams in the top 75. Way too many anchors on the schedule this year. The number of games played doesn't really affect your RPI.

On the other hand, the committee doesn't seem to be treating the RPI as a holy relic these days. We have two outstanding wins, no bad losses, and a nice road record.

(01-28-2014 12:06 PM)BIGDTiger Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 12:01 PM)QDoodle Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 11:51 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 11:02 AM)BIGDTiger Wrote:  Wow, that national schedule we've replaced UT with is amazing...wait, we didnt replace them at all. Just didnt play that game at all. Makes us look like pansies for dropping UT. Calipari & Pastner are both wrong for dropping regional rivalries. (Burning bridges)

All very good points because...UT is a national program...and they are ranked...and we aren't playing Oklahoma State and Gonzaga home and home...and we won't be playing Louisville home and home...and the program doesn't need to play any buy games...

Exactly. Who needs Ok. St. twice, Gonzaga, Louisville, Florida, and the home-and-home games moving forward when we could have played a national powerhouse like UT? I'm sure everyone here tried to explain to BIGD 50,000 times why playing UT is not benificial to us, but since he is more of an expert on the matter than Cal or Pastner I won't waste my time trying to re-explain it.

Or we could play all those games plus UT...DUH

Playing more than the allowable number of games is an excellent solution. Well done.

(01-28-2014 09:02 AM)Stammers Wrote:  It is interesting how important the actual number of games played are, when it comes to RPI.

Memphis
14-4
35 RPI
35 SOS

Iowa
15-4
21 RPI
45 SOS

Ohio State
16-4
18 RPI
27 SOS

We are basically 1/2 games played behind everyone. If we had 1 more win against a team in the top 150, our RPI would be in the low teens or high 20's.

I don't necessarily think the number of games hurts us as much us losing at home...A home loss counts as 1.4 losses...That is where we are hurting.

(01-28-2014 01:02 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 09:02 AM)Stammers Wrote:  It is interesting how important the actual number of games played are, when it comes to RPI.

Memphis
14-4
35 RPI
35 SOS

Iowa
15-4
21 RPI
45 SOS

Ohio State
16-4
18 RPI
27 SOS

We are basically 1/2 games played behind everyone. If we had 1 more win against a team in the top 150, our RPI would be in the low teens or high 20's.

I don't necessarily think the number of games hurts us as much us losing at home...A home loss counts as 1.4 losses...That is where we are hurting.

Of course it does. If right now we had one more game played against mediocre competition, our RPI would be 12-14 points higher.

(01-28-2014 12:01 PM)QDoodle Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 11:51 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 11:02 AM)BIGDTiger Wrote:  Wow, that national schedule we've replaced UT with is amazing...wait, we didnt replace them at all. Just didnt play that game at all. Makes us look like pansies for dropping UT. Calipari & Pastner are both wrong for dropping regional rivalries. (Burning bridges)

All very good points because...UT is a national program...and they are ranked...and we aren't playing Oklahoma State and Gonzaga home and home...and we won't be playing Louisville home and home...and the program doesn't need to play any buy games...

I'm sure everyone here tried to explain to BIGD 50,000 times why playing UT is not benificial to us, but since he is more of an expert on the matter than Cal or Pastner I won't waste my time trying to re-explain it.

The benefits to UT-K are quite clear and that is all that counts to some folks.

(01-28-2014 01:05 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 01:02 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 09:02 AM)Stammers Wrote:  It is interesting how important the actual number of games played are, when it comes to RPI.

Memphis
14-4
35 RPI
35 SOS

Iowa
15-4
21 RPI
45 SOS

Ohio State
16-4
18 RPI
27 SOS

We are basically 1/2 games played behind everyone. If we had 1 more win against a team in the top 150, our RPI would be in the low teens or high 20's.

I don't necessarily think the number of games hurts us as much us losing at home...A home loss counts as 1.4 losses...That is where we are hurting.

Of course it does. If right now we had one more game played against mediocre competition, our RPI would be 12-14 points higher.

As much are the key words in that statement...Losing at home hurts us more than having less games...Because you have to win the games and the other team can't have a crap record.

(01-28-2014 09:02 AM)Stammers Wrote:  It is interesting how important the actual number of games played are, when it comes to RPI.

Memphis
14-4
35 RPI
35 SOS

Iowa
15-4
21 RPI
45 SOS

Ohio State
16-4
18 RPI
27 SOS

We are basically 1/2 games played behind everyone. If we had 1 more win against a team in the top 150, our RPI would be in the low teens or high 20's.

You're forgetting Iowa and OSU have had more high-profile games against top 40 RPI teams than us. That's why their RPIs are high. They play in the best conference in basketball. Currently the #150 RPI team is Robert Morris. Not sure that exactly would put us in the low teens?

(01-28-2014 01:17 PM)fishman6581 Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 09:02 AM)Stammers Wrote:  It is interesting how important the actual number of games played are, when it comes to RPI.

Memphis
14-4
35 RPI
35 SOS

Iowa
15-4
21 RPI
45 SOS

Ohio State
16-4
18 RPI
27 SOS

We are basically 1/2 games played behind everyone. If we had 1 more win against a team in the top 150, our RPI would be in the low teens or high 20's.

You're forgetting Iowa and OSU have had more high-profile games against top 40 RPI teams than us. That's why their RPIs are high. They play in the best conference in basketball. Currently the #150 RPI team is Robert Morris. Not sure that exactly would put us in the low teens?

I have no idea what you're saying; or asking.

(01-28-2014 12:06 PM)BIGDTiger Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 12:01 PM)QDoodle Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 11:51 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 11:02 AM)BIGDTiger Wrote:  Wow, that national schedule we've replaced UT with is amazing...wait, we didnt replace them at all. Just didnt play that game at all. Makes us look like pansies for dropping UT. Calipari & Pastner are both wrong for dropping regional rivalries. (Burning bridges)

All very good points because...UT is a national program...and they are ranked...and we aren't playing Oklahoma State and Gonzaga home and home...and we won't be playing Louisville home and home...and the program doesn't need to play any buy games...

Exactly. Who needs Ok. St. twice, Gonzaga, Louisville, Florida, and the home-and-home games moving forward when we could have played a national powerhouse like UT? I'm sure everyone here tried to explain to BIGD 50,000 times why playing UT is not benificial to us, but since he is more of an expert on the matter than Cal or Pastner I won't waste my time trying to re-explain it.

Or we could play all those games plus UT...DUH

Man, you are the last person that needs to be saying "duh" to people. Do you even know what you wrote? Surely you do since you wrote it. You were mocking the "national schedule" suggesting that Oklahoma St. and Florida and Gonzaga and home-and-home with Louisville moving forward weren't national. You didn't just simply say that you thought we should play UT in addition to those teams, you were mocking the scheduling.

Then you proceeded to declare that Cal and Pastner are wrong, as if you know better than they do....gotta put a big "huh?" on that one and a "wha?".

The only bridge that would be burning would be the one Memphis recruits and their families could walk across to see UT playing at the Forum instead of having to drive across the state to Knoxville. If you want to play for UT then your family and friends are going have to head to Knoxville to see you, not the comfy confines of the Forum.

Nothing wrong with you having the opinion (though many disagree) that in your estimation we should play UT in addition to those other teams, but that is not how you presented it.

(01-28-2014 01:05 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 01:02 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 09:02 AM)Stammers Wrote:  It is interesting how important the actual number of games played are, when it comes to RPI.

Memphis
14-4
35 RPI
35 SOS

Iowa
15-4
21 RPI
45 SOS

Ohio State
16-4
18 RPI
27 SOS

We are basically 1/2 games played behind everyone. If we had 1 more win against a team in the top 150, our RPI would be in the low teens or high 20's.

I don't necessarily think the number of games hurts us as much us losing at home...A home loss counts as 1.4 losses...That is where we are hurting.

Of course it does. If right now we had one more game played against mediocre competition, our RPI would be 12-14 points higher.

If we played one more game against a team that was 4-12, then half of our RPI (opponents record) would be affected negatively, with another 1/4 affected by that team's won-loss schedule. Only 1/4 would benefit positively if we win.

That's why you often see a team beat a bad team, only to see it's RPI deteriorate.

A team can play 3 games against otherwise undefeated teams, go 2-1 against them, and have an RPI in the stratosphere.

(01-28-2014 01:44 PM)QDoodle Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 12:06 PM)BIGDTiger Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 12:01 PM)QDoodle Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 11:51 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 11:02 AM)BIGDTiger Wrote:  Wow, that national schedule we've replaced UT with is amazing...wait, we didnt replace them at all. Just didnt play that game at all. Makes us look like pansies for dropping UT. Calipari & Pastner are both wrong for dropping regional rivalries. (Burning bridges)

All very good points because...UT is a national program...and they are ranked...and we aren't playing Oklahoma State and Gonzaga home and home...and we won't be playing Louisville home and home...and the program doesn't need to play any buy games...

Exactly. Who needs Ok. St. twice, Gonzaga, Louisville, Florida, and the home-and-home games moving forward when we could have played a national powerhouse like UT? I'm sure everyone here tried to explain to BIGD 50,000 times why playing UT is not benificial to us, but since he is more of an expert on the matter than Cal or Pastner I won't waste my time trying to re-explain it.

Or we could play all those games plus UT...DUH

Man, you are the last person that needs to be saying "duh" to people. Do you even know what you wrote? Surely you do since you wrote it. You were mocking the "national schedule" suggesting that Oklahoma St. and Florida and Gonzaga and home-and-home with Louisville moving forward weren't national. You didn't just simply say that you thought we should play UT in addition to those teams, you were mocking the scheduling.

Then you proceeded to declare that Cal and Pastner are wrong, as if you know better than they do....gotta put a big "huh?" on that one and a "wha?".

The only bridge that would be burning would be the one Memphis recruits and their families could walk across to see UT playing at the Forum instead of having to drive across the state to Knoxville. If you want to play for UT then your family and friends are going have to head to Knoxville to see you, not the comfy confines of the Forum.

Nothing wrong with you having the opinion (though many disagree) that in your estimation we should play UT in addition to those other teams, but that is not how you presented it.

His main purpose on this board if not the earth is to hate on Josh.

UT has a Memphis kid that is propping up the team and a transfer that UT fans thought would take them to elite status. The school and most fans would not pea on us if we were on fire, take great pleasure in belittling us and only want to play us for our perceived status above them in the basketball world of the weird.

(01-28-2014 01:51 PM)bubbapt Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 01:05 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 01:02 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-28-2014 09:02 AM)Stammers Wrote:  It is interesting how important the actual number of games played are, when it comes to RPI.

Memphis
14-4
35 RPI
35 SOS

Iowa
15-4
21 RPI
45 SOS

Ohio State
16-4
18 RPI
27 SOS

We are basically 1/2 games played behind everyone. If we had 1 more win against a team in the top 150, our RPI would be in the low teens or high 20's.

I don't necessarily think the number of games hurts us as much us losing at home...A home loss counts as 1.4 losses...That is where we are hurting.

Of course it does. If right now we had one more game played against mediocre competition, our RPI would be 12-14 points higher.

If we played one more game against a team that was 4-12, then half of our RPI (opponents record) would be affected negatively, with another 1/4 affected by that team's won-loss schedule. Only 1/4 would benefit positively if we win.

That's why you often see a team beat a bad team, only to see it's RPI deteriorate.

A team can play 3 games against otherwise undefeated teams, go 2-1 against them, and have an RPI in the stratosphere.

That is why I specified mediocre and not a total piece of crap.

Agreed that those 1 or 2 games make a difference, but one thing that stands out with our profile is our overwhelming % of sub-150 games.

11 out of our 18 games have been against teams with RPI 151 or worse, or 62%

In the example of Ohio State, 4 out of 20 games, or 20% have been sub-150 teams
The plus for them is that 8-1 record vs 51-100

The plus for us of course is we have 2 outstanding wins, both away from home