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The P5 is calling itself the "HRG" (Higher Resource Group)
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HawaiiMongoose Offline
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The P5 is calling itself the "HRG" (Higher Resource Group)
This according to an article in this morning's Honolulu Star-Advertiser. The article is behind a pay wall but some excerpts are provided below. A couple of other interesting tidbits: raising scholarship limits is being advocated by at least some of the P5 schools, and the resistance to giving the P5 free reign is coming mainly from the G5 (more so than from the FCS and non-football conferences) because of parity concerns.

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Last week's NCAA Convention in San Diego was as re-energizing as it was frustrating for Hawaii athletic director Ben Jay. He finds himself straddling the equator of college sports with an equally clear view of the antipodes that exist, particularly the financial inequities.

As a senior associate athletic director at Ohio State, Jay was part of the Bowl Championship Series that created a chasm between the haves and have-nots in college athletics. The BCS morphed into the "Big 5," which now has rebranded itself as the "Higher Resource Group."

********

The key issues at last week's convention revolved around money and autonomy, and the five major conferences want more of both.

The discussions included giving $2,000 stipends to student-athletes in selected sports and raising the scholarship limit in football from its current 85. Both have been tabled as the NCAA board of directors also seeks to restructure its own governing processes, including giving more of a voice to the student-athlete and representation from those who are in the trenches daily: the athletic directors.

********

"Maybe because of all the money (the HRG) get, they feel they can afford to do that (add scholarships and $2,000 stipends). But the rest of the folks are happy as it is with the parity. It allows us to compete."

Jay said there were minor conferences ready to cede autonomy to the HRG, but those were conferences that either would never be able to commit financially to compete at the Division I-A football level or that don't sponsor football at all.
(This post was last modified: 01-27-2014 06:22 PM by HawaiiMongoose.)
01-27-2014 06:18 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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RE: The P5 is calling itself the "HRG" (Higher Resource Group)
Don't you just love these made up terms that mask reality?
01-27-2014 06:28 PM
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ncbeta Offline
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RE: The P5 is calling itself the "HRG" (Higher Resource Group)
A more fitting name would be "The higher resource group + friends who benefit from conference affiliation and its media deal."

I mean seriously...you make all FBS teams indy. Schedule completely random teams for each school, top 16 make the playoff. Watch as fans and support taper off from some schools at the bottom of the P5 while some of the G5 begin to rise.
(This post was last modified: 01-27-2014 06:34 PM by ncbeta.)
01-27-2014 06:33 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: The P5 is calling itself the "HRG" (Higher Resource Group)
The HRG or P5 is going to get what it wants with or without the NCAA. What everyone else has to decide is which it will be. An NCAA tournament without the P5 and the basketball only schools they could attach to a breakaway would gut the revenue from the NCAA tourney. So do the G5 and others want to cut their revenue further and run the P5 off, or do they acquiesce? It's not a P5 problem either way. I'm sure the NBE or A10 would be happy to give less to the NCAA.
01-27-2014 06:37 PM
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ncbeta Offline
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RE: The P5 is calling itself the "HRG" (Higher Resource Group)
I say let both break away from the NCAA. P5 can take their $$ and all work towards the same goal. The G5 can create a new league admitting all Non-qualifiers plus anyone else that wants to play G5 ball. No more scheduling between the two leagues.
01-27-2014 06:46 PM
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Attackcoog Online
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RE: The P5 is calling itself the "HRG" (Higher Resource Group)
(01-27-2014 06:37 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The HRG or P5 is going to get what it wants with or without the NCAA. What everyone else has to decide is which it will be. An NCAA tournament without the P5 and the basketball only schools they could attach to a breakaway would gut the revenue from the NCAA tourney. So do the G5 and others want to cut their revenue further and run the P5 off, or do they acquiesce? It's not a P5 problem either way. I'm sure the NBE or A10 would be happy to give less to the NCAA.

The scholarship limit is the one place the G5 simply can't compromise on. I think other than that--they can afford to give th P5 everything else they want. Raising the scholarship limit effectively destroys the on field competitiveness of the G5. If they give in there they are finished anyway. The G5 has nothing to lose by blocking that move.
01-27-2014 06:54 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: The P5 is calling itself the "HRG" (Higher Resource Group)
Quote:The P5 is calling itself the "HRG" (Higher Resource Group)

This according to an article in this morning's Honolulu Star-Advertiser.

The article is behind a pay wall

Oh, the irony.

(01-27-2014 06:37 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The HRG or P5 is going to get what it wants with or without the NCAA. What everyone else has to decide is which it will be.

Pretty much. But, if the Hawaii AD is correct when he says that the FCS and non-FB D-I schools aren't opposed to P5 autonomy within D-I, then it's probably going to happen.
01-27-2014 07:02 PM
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RE: The P5 is calling itself the "HRG" (Higher Resource Group)
(01-27-2014 06:46 PM)ncbeta Wrote:  I say let both break away from the NCAA. P5 can take their $$ and all work towards the same goal. The G5 can create a new league admitting all Non-qualifiers plus anyone else that wants to play G5 ball. No more scheduling between the two leagues.

Quite honestly, I am absolutely fine with that. Schools like ECU and BYU won't be hurt by that because their fans do a good job of filling up their respective stadiums which puts money in the pockets of the University. Who it will hurt the most are the schools that depend on a big name to sell out their stadium.

I'm sure TV execs would love to have Texas vs Bama, Michigan-vs Florida St, USC vs Texas A&M, Oregon-Texas Tech type games each week as opposed as a body bag game vs some school who can't help themselves. I see it as a win-win. Better match-ups, more money, better prestige.
01-27-2014 07:11 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: The P5 is calling itself the "HRG" (Higher Resource Group)
(01-27-2014 06:54 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(01-27-2014 06:37 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The HRG or P5 is going to get what it wants with or without the NCAA. What everyone else has to decide is which it will be. An NCAA tournament without the P5 and the basketball only schools they could attach to a breakaway would gut the revenue from the NCAA tourney. So do the G5 and others want to cut their revenue further and run the P5 off, or do they acquiesce? It's not a P5 problem either way. I'm sure the NBE or A10 would be happy to give less to the NCAA.

The scholarship limit is the one place the G5 simply can't compromise on. I think other than that--they can afford to give th P5 everything else they want. Raising the scholarship limit effectively destroys the on field competitiveness of the G5. If they give in there they are finished anyway. The G5 has nothing to lose by blocking that move.

If that is the only sticking point I don't see a problem unless that issue is the one they've picked to have a breakaway. I'm not so sure that many P5 schools are that bent out of shape about adding more scholarships.
01-27-2014 07:17 PM
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Attackcoog Online
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RE: The P5 is calling itself the "HRG" (Higher Resource Group)
(01-27-2014 07:02 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
Quote:The P5 is calling itself the "HRG" (Higher Resource Group)

This according to an article in this morning's Honolulu Star-Advertiser.

The article is behind a pay wall

Oh, the irony.

(01-27-2014 06:37 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The HRG or P5 is going to get what it wants with or without the NCAA. What everyone else has to decide is which it will be.

Pretty much. But, if the Hawaii AD is correct when he says that the FCS and non-FB D-I schools aren't opposed to P5 autonomy within D-I, then it's probably going to happen.

This is what I said when the original proposal came out. The basketball schools were willing to throw the G5 under the bus. The proposal puts football scholarship limits under P5 control, but does not allow them to control basketball scholarship limits. If they go this route, I'd push for JR's full split with the NCAA with the G5 being included in all sports but football. We would be in the newly created break away organization, we would just be in a different division for football. That would be better for the G5 than the current proposal (though both options are disastrous).
(This post was last modified: 01-27-2014 07:27 PM by Attackcoog.)
01-27-2014 07:25 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: The P5 is calling itself the "HRG" (Higher Resource Group)
(01-27-2014 07:25 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(01-27-2014 07:02 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
Quote:The P5 is calling itself the "HRG" (Higher Resource Group)

This according to an article in this morning's Honolulu Star-Advertiser.

The article is behind a pay wall

Oh, the irony.

(01-27-2014 06:37 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The HRG or P5 is going to get what it wants with or without the NCAA. What everyone else has to decide is which it will be.

Pretty much. But, if the Hawaii AD is correct when he says that the FCS and non-FB D-I schools aren't opposed to P5 autonomy within D-I, then it's probably going to happen.

This is what I said when the original proposal came out. The basketball schools were willing to throw the G5 under the bus. The proposal puts football scholarship limits under P5 control, but does not allow them to control basketball scholarship limits. If they go this route, I'd push for JR's full split with the NCAA with the G5 being included in all sports but football. We would be in the newly created break away organization, we would just be in a different division for football. That would be better for the G5 than the current proposal (though both options are disastrous).

If you did that I bet the P5 would drop the demand for increased scholarships, but only during or after the split.
01-27-2014 07:49 PM
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Attackcoog Online
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RE: The P5 is calling itself the "HRG" (Higher Resource Group)
(01-27-2014 07:49 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-27-2014 07:25 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(01-27-2014 07:02 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
Quote:The P5 is calling itself the "HRG" (Higher Resource Group)

This according to an article in this morning's Honolulu Star-Advertiser.

The article is behind a pay wall

Oh, the irony.

(01-27-2014 06:37 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The HRG or P5 is going to get what it wants with or without the NCAA. What everyone else has to decide is which it will be.

Pretty much. But, if the Hawaii AD is correct when he says that the FCS and non-FB D-I schools aren't opposed to P5 autonomy within D-I, then it's probably going to happen.

This is what I said when the original proposal came out. The basketball schools were willing to throw the G5 under the bus. The proposal puts football scholarship limits under P5 control, but does not allow them to control basketball scholarship limits. If they go this route, I'd push for JR's full split with the NCAA with the G5 being included in all sports but football. We would be in the newly created break away organization, we would just be in a different division for football. That would be better for the G5 than the current proposal (though both options are disastrous).

If you did that I bet the P5 would drop the demand for increased scholarships, but only during or after the split.

I think in the final analysis---the G5 would agree to virtually ANYTHING in order to stay in the same division as the P5 (including football) and keep the scholarship limits in place. If they are going to be demoted in football regardless (either via a scholarship limit increase that would effectively strip each G5 roster of its best 10 athletes or by demotion to a lower defined division---or both), then the concept of staying with the P5 in a break away becomes more attractive. At least it separates the G5 from the other 250 smaller D1 programs. Being in a big tent, eliminated from the highest level of football, is the death knell for many large G5 programs that have expense structures that cannot be supported with small time FCS income streams (which is where the G5 would quickly to devolve to). In a break away scenario, the value of the 126 basketball programs would increase significantly. That G5 basketball value increases might be enough to offset the budget deficits that would be pouring out of their massively devalued football programs.
(This post was last modified: 01-27-2014 08:07 PM by Attackcoog.)
01-27-2014 08:00 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: The P5 is calling itself the "HRG" (Higher Resource Group)
(01-27-2014 07:25 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(01-27-2014 07:02 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
Quote:The P5 is calling itself the "HRG" (Higher Resource Group)

This according to an article in this morning's Honolulu Star-Advertiser.

The article is behind a pay wall

Oh, the irony.

(01-27-2014 06:37 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The HRG or P5 is going to get what it wants with or without the NCAA. What everyone else has to decide is which it will be.

Pretty much. But, if the Hawaii AD is correct when he says that the FCS and non-FB D-I schools aren't opposed to P5 autonomy within D-I, then it's probably going to happen.

This is what I said when the original proposal came out. The basketball schools were willing to throw the G5 under the bus. The proposal puts football scholarship limits under P5 control, but does not allow them to control basketball scholarship limits. If they go this route, I'd push for JR's full split with the NCAA with the G5 being included in all sports but football. We would be in the newly created break away organization, we would just be in a different division for football. That would be better for the G5 than the current proposal (though both options are disastrous).

The no-FB schools aren't throwing the G5 under the bus -- it's just that they don't care, and have no reason to care, about protecting "a level playing field" in football, a sport that they don't sponsor, any more than your school would care about protecting a level playing field in NCAA ice hockey.
01-27-2014 08:13 PM
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RE: The P5 is calling itself the "HRG" (Higher Resource Group)
The G5 wants parity with the P5. Not budget parity, which it hasn't earned and will never have. But parity in terms of number of scholarships allowed, cash benefits afforded to athletes, and opportunity to compete for CFP berths. The G5 has all of that today and doesn't want to give it up.

Now whether the G5 will be able to keep all or any of that remains to be seen.
01-27-2014 08:15 PM
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RE: The P5 is calling itself the "HRG" (Higher Resource Group)
(01-27-2014 08:13 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(01-27-2014 07:25 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(01-27-2014 07:02 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
Quote:The P5 is calling itself the "HRG" (Higher Resource Group)

This according to an article in this morning's Honolulu Star-Advertiser.

The article is behind a pay wall

Oh, the irony.

(01-27-2014 06:37 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The HRG or P5 is going to get what it wants with or without the NCAA. What everyone else has to decide is which it will be.

Pretty much. But, if the Hawaii AD is correct when he says that the FCS and non-FB D-I schools aren't opposed to P5 autonomy within D-I, then it's probably going to happen.

This is what I said when the original proposal came out. The basketball schools were willing to throw the G5 under the bus. The proposal puts football scholarship limits under P5 control, but does not allow them to control basketball scholarship limits. If they go this route, I'd push for JR's full split with the NCAA with the G5 being included in all sports but football. We would be in the newly created break away organization, we would just be in a different division for football. That would be better for the G5 than the current proposal (though both options are disastrous).

The no-FB schools aren't throwing the G5 under the bus -- it's just that they don't care, and have no reason to care, about protecting "a level playing field" in football, a sport that they don't sponsor, any more than your school would care about protecting a level playing field in NCAA ice hockey.

That's the very definition of throwing somebody under the bus----you do it to protect yourself without regard for what it does to someone else. Which is what we would do if we aligned with the P5 and broke away. It would be in our best interests (massively increased basketball earnings) and would likely harm the rest of the D1 FCS/non-football types. It would allow our athletic departments to survive the massive blow to football earnings (the G5 programs would fall to FCS levels of income) by increasing basketball value dramatically.
(This post was last modified: 01-27-2014 08:29 PM by Attackcoog.)
01-27-2014 08:26 PM
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RE: The P5 is calling itself the "HRG" (Higher Resource Group)
Is anyone else not getting sick of all this drama? I miss the days when two teams would just line up on opposite sides of the field and play football. The passion and tradition in this sport is dying by the year.
(This post was last modified: 01-27-2014 09:12 PM by TrojanCampaign.)
01-27-2014 09:12 PM
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RE: The P5 is calling itself the "HRG" (Higher Resource Group)
(01-27-2014 09:12 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  Is anyone else not getting sick of all this drama? I miss the days when two teams would just line up on opposite sides of the field and play football. The passion and tradition in this sport is dying by the year.

Absolutely. As soon as you think things might settle down--there is always some new threat. This whole "D4" thing is totally unnecessary. The P5 already control football, the playoff configuration, and virtually all the money associated with it. Whats left to win?
01-27-2014 09:32 PM
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RE: The P5 is calling itself the "HRG" (Higher Resource Group)
(01-27-2014 09:32 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(01-27-2014 09:12 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  Is anyone else not getting sick of all this drama? I miss the days when two teams would just line up on opposite sides of the field and play football. The passion and tradition in this sport is dying by the year.

Absolutely. As soon as you think things might settle down--there is always some new threat. This whole "D4" thing is totally unnecessary. The P5 already control football, the playoff configuration, and virtually all the money associated with it. Whats left to win?
The opportunity to never worry about losing a bowl game to UCF. The opportunity to have not just ~95% of the money and media-attention, but 100%.
01-27-2014 09:43 PM
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RE: The P5 is calling itself the "HRG" (Higher Resource Group)
(01-27-2014 09:32 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(01-27-2014 09:12 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  Is anyone else not getting sick of all this drama? I miss the days when two teams would just line up on opposite sides of the field and play football. The passion and tradition in this sport is dying by the year.

Absolutely. As soon as you think things might settle down--there is always some new threat. This whole "D4" thing is totally unnecessary. The P5 already control football, the playoff configuration, and virtually all the money associated with it. Whats left to win?

I've told the board time and again. Structure to maximize a national audience for advertising and product placement to compliment and multiply the content of each surviving conference is what is left. And none of this is conference driven per se, it is network driven and their money is what has taken over the game, and the national financial crisis provided the climate in which it all could take place. It had been moving at a snails pace prior to 2008. The lingering destruction of middle class jobs has curtailed attendance, though not as much as I had expected, and the lack of legitimate and sustainable jobs coupled with those rolling off of the unemployment rolls have led to a national downturn in tax revenues which have curtailed funding from both the Feds and the States. So institutions that would have never sold out before have taken the cash and the networks will push this through to conclusion as quickly as possible. It has been a hostile takeover of an undervalued product which has tremendous upside and low overhead. Realignment is nothing more than the arranging of the most valuable product in ways that maximize profit potential and in a structure that will become familiar and predictable for playoff outcomes.

Like regional flavor, regional dialects, and everything else unique in our world (think of the family diner), everything will be replaced by the stale and uninspiring corporate logo and sameness will settle over the game. There will be no real distinctions between regions, no local flavor, no conference culture as before. But hell, where were the cries when it became the USF&G Sugar Bowl or the FedEX Orange Bowl or even the lowly Go Daddy Dot Com Bowl? Where were the cries when corporate logos started adorning every corner of your stadiums? The takeover started when we became addicted to bowl money instead of letting that antiquated system die out in favor of an NCAA playoff format. It started when we wanted to upgrade everything but didn't have the money to do it with without a corporate sponsor. But they dangled the dollars and we took them. How is now any different? The corporations established that we were whores with the bowl money. Now realignment is just a new position well try for the bucks.
(This post was last modified: 01-27-2014 10:28 PM by JRsec.)
01-27-2014 09:56 PM
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RE: The P5 is calling itself the "HRG" (Higher Resource Group)
(01-27-2014 06:37 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The HRG or P5 is going to get what it wants with or without the NCAA. What everyone else has to decide is which it will be. An NCAA tournament without the P5 and the basketball only schools they could attach to a breakaway would gut the revenue from the NCAA tourney. So do the G5 and others want to cut their revenue further and run the P5 off, or do they acquiesce? It's not a P5 problem either way. I'm sure the NBE or A10 would be happy to give less to the NCAA.

I don't think basketball is a big issue for G5 schools realistically. The only issue is football. If given the choice, most of us would gladly sacrifice basketball to maintain or gain football exposure.

The problem is a split hurts in football more than it hurts basketball.
01-27-2014 10:22 PM
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