Is this year what you expected?

With the conference season now over a third of the way done- kind of curious what everyones thoughts are on if it's meeting everyone's expectations on the floor.

For me- i'm between as good as I expected and actually not as good. Didn't think we would have a problem getting 4 teams in at all. Balanced by Nova and Creighton doing better than I thought.

I think the league would be exactly as I expected if Marquette would have played better. I thought the BE would be a solid 4 bids with a few teams fighting for a 5th. I don't think there is any possibility of a 5th bid unless a lower team wins the conference tourney.

(01-24-2014 03:22 PM)SecureDaBall Wrote:  I think the league would be exactly as I expected if Marquette would have played better. I thought the BE would be a solid 4 bids with a few teams fighting for a 5th. I don't think there is any possibility of a 5th bid unless a lower team wins the conference tourney.

I never thought 5 was a realistic possibility. Just the 5th place team with too many losses- especially when you combined what we did in OOC play..

I think I'd add Georgetown to your 1st sentance.

I would say though in contrast- Nova and Creighton playing much better than what was expected. That's what makes this question so tough.

For me its not as good as expected.

My expectations was the top pack would have been G’Town, Nova, Marquette, and Creighton fighting it out, with St Johns, Butler and Xavier right behind nipping at their heels. My guess was 4 was a lock with 5 being very realistic. I think to get 4 now (baring an upset in the BET) things will have to break right.

Nova has out preformed my expectations, Creighton is right there where they should be and I’m not surprised by Xavier, I know from all the Temple Xavier wars in the A10 that they are solid.

I think Providence and to some extent Seton Hall have over achieved and made nice strides and if the conference played out like it should have would really be getting some attention, especially with their injuries.

G Town, Marquette, and St Johns have been major disappointments (IMO). Butler is rebuilding I knew that but I was sure they would have shown more than they have.

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The Georgetown guards (Starks and DSR) have been playing well. But with the loss of Porter, Whittington and now Josh Smith, the frontcourt has some issues. With the injuries last week to Trawick (broken jaw) and Lubick (broken nose), the team is definately struggling.

As for the conference, hopefully we get 4 teams into the tournament this year. Georgetown, Marquette and St Johns have been disappointments.

So... If the general consensus is disappointment with the conference as a whole this year, and especially if we only get three bids, does expansion become more appealing? How do we feel about things if we had SLU and VCU? Wouldn't we be fawning all over ourselves right now with our 5-6 NCAA bids in a year when MU, GT, and BU are all down? Kind of playing devil's advocate here, as I really like 10 teams and the true round-robin.

it's an interesting thought. I think the thing with the 10 team round robin that is different than other 10 team conferences that can get 5-6 teams in(look this year big 12, AAC even)- our teams 7-10 are much stronger than those conferences- and they steal wins if you will from those 4-6 teams that hurts them end of the day.

Right now AAC- 8-10 are 0-14 vs the rest of the conference.
Big 12 7-10 are 0-12 vs rest of the conference.

now look at our 7-10.
Seton Hall 2 wins vs Providence and Georgetown
Butler win vs Marquette
just those games there- if the other teams get the wins there- PC is in tourney right now, Georgetown a lot more on the bubble, and even Marquette would be a LOT closer to the bubble. Our depth is fantastic, but it's not condusive to getting a ton of teams in the tourney when you play the round robin.

(01-25-2014 12:42 AM)stever20 Wrote:  it's an interesting thought. I think the thing with the 10 team round robin that is different than other 10 team conferences that can get 5-6 teams in(look this year big 12, AAC even)- our teams 7-10 are much stronger than those conferences- and they steal wins if you will from those 4-6 teams that hurts them end of the day.

Right now AAC- 8-10 are 0-14 vs the rest of the conference.
Big 12 7-10 are 0-12 vs rest of the conference.

now look at our 7-10.
Seton Hall 2 wins vs Providence and Georgetown
Butler win vs Marquette
just those games there- if the other teams get the wins there- PC is in tourney right now, Georgetown a lot more on the bubble, and even Marquette would be a LOT closer to the bubble. Our depth is fantastic, but it's not condusive to getting a ton of teams in the tourney when you play the round robin.

Steve I agree with this. When you have a solid bottom half of the conference (any conference) and parity it’s a double edged sword. It’s great for the quality of the conference, but past the top couple of teams it’s a situation where everyone keeps knocking each other off and no one can distance themselves from the rest of the pack for an NCAA bid.

(01-24-2014 01:27 PM)stever20 Wrote:  With the conference season now over a third of the way done- kind of curious what everyones thoughts are on if it's meeting everyone's expectations on the floor.

For me- i'm between as good as I expected and actually not as good. Didn't think we would have a problem getting 4 teams in at all. Balanced by Nova and Creighton doing better than I thought.

I could actually make a case for any of the choices, and a few breaks here or there would make a huge difference:

Villanova and Creighton have been nice surprises -- both should be bringing up the middle of the conference, but...

Georgetown and Marquette's mediocrity has been devastating for the league. Those two teams are 1-5 against major conference opposition.

If it weren't for Xavier's nightmare in the Virgin Islands that began with an overtime loss to Iowa and then losing to a team they had already beaten, they would be ranked in the mid-teens or higher.

If Providence had pulled out wins against Maryland and UMass in two games that were decided by four points and in overtime, they would be a very very pleasant surprise.

St. Johns, Seton Hall and DePaul have been disasters, and the best thing that could happen for this conference over the rest of the season is for those three schools go winless against everyone else.

The good news going forward is that it's two premier programs -- Georgetown and Marquette -- that are holding this league back right now, and we all know that they'll be back. Hopefully Cooley can keep it up at Providence and St. Johns & Butler can put it together over the next couple of years (though we have been saying that about the Johnnies for a while).

(01-25-2014 12:42 AM)stever20 Wrote:  it's an interesting thought. I think the thing with the 10 team round robin that is different than other 10 team conferences that can get 5-6 teams in(look this year big 12, AAC even)- our teams 7-10 are much stronger than those conferences- and they steal wins if you will from those 4-6 teams that hurts them end of the day.

Right now AAC- 8-10 are 0-14 vs the rest of the conference.
Big 12 7-10 are 0-12 vs rest of the conference.

now look at our 7-10.
Seton Hall 2 wins vs Providence and Georgetown
Butler win vs Marquette
just those games there- if the other teams get the wins there- PC is in tourney right now, Georgetown a lot more on the bubble, and even Marquette would be a LOT closer to the bubble. Our depth is fantastic, but it's not condusive to getting a ton of teams in the tourney when you play the round robin.

Maybe it's because your top teams aren't as good as the top teams in the AAC and the Big 12.

(01-25-2014 08:09 PM)CincyBro Wrote:  

(01-25-2014 12:42 AM)stever20 Wrote:  it's an interesting thought. I think the thing with the 10 team round robin that is different than other 10 team conferences that can get 5-6 teams in(look this year big 12, AAC even)- our teams 7-10 are much stronger than those conferences- and they steal wins if you will from those 4-6 teams that hurts them end of the day.

Right now AAC- 8-10 are 0-14 vs the rest of the conference.
Big 12 7-10 are 0-12 vs rest of the conference.

now look at our 7-10.
Seton Hall 2 wins vs Providence and Georgetown
Butler win vs Marquette
just those games there- if the other teams get the wins there- PC is in tourney right now, Georgetown a lot more on the bubble, and even Marquette would be a LOT closer to the bubble. Our depth is fantastic, but it's not condusive to getting a ton of teams in the tourney when you play the round robin.

Maybe it's because your top teams aren't as good as the top teams in the AAC and the Big 12.

This might be a simplistic look at it but Xavier beat the top team in the AAC this season and it wasn't really competitive.

That being said, I think Louisville and Memphis may have better talent than the top teams in the BE but IMO top to bottom the Big East is a better conference. And going forward, it seems the breakup has helped a few programs in the Big East with recruiting like Xavier and Seton Hall so it will be interesting how thinks shake out past this year.

I think our top teams are plenty good enough. There's about 0 teams that want to see Creighton walk into the gym. Nova has had a really good year. Not many leagues have a 1-2 punch like those 2.

Are people more disappointed in the way teams are playing or in the fact that those they expected to excel and be tops in the league haven't? It's still not over for Marquette and if Providence can maintain its streak and take the place that many thought would go to Georgetown or st johns the BE would be fine. The next week for me will bemore ttelling especially for PC we will see if they can step it up on the road

Seems the depth has been there with 4 potential teams.

Butler has been a disaster.

(01-26-2014 09:28 AM)gosports1 Wrote:  Are people more disappointed in the way teams are playing or in the fact that those they expected to excel and be tops in the league haven't? It's still not over for Marquette and if Providence can maintain its streak and take the place that many thought would go to Georgetown or st johns the BE would be fine. The next week for me will bemore ttelling especially for PC we will see if they can step it up on the road

think the thing that is kind of saving us now is the recent surge by PC. They're not in yet, but definitely trending up. I think having the 4th team in the tourney is HUGE for perceptions sake. I think Xavier and PC need to keep where they are...

I do think it's practically over for Marquette. They pretty much would have to go like 8-3 at the worst to have any shot of playing their way in the BET. Maybe it happens, but just think they had their shots earlier and couldn't convert. Just doesn't seem to be their year this year.

SHU, SJU and DePaul...winning games....has damaged the conference. Wow. Yes. Teams winning sucks.

I could give two $hits how the conference does. I want my team to win every game it plays.

it's really not been those 3 winning games. Just look at Marquette. They're at 11-9 right now- with no losses to the 3 that you brought up. to have what a lot of folks thought was the preseason favorite at 11-9- is just amazing.

also look at the 3 you mention...
DePaul- beats Butler and St John's
SH- beats PC, Georgetown, and DePaul. Don't think it's really killed PC much, and Georgetown not as good as was thought
St John's- beats Butler and Seton Hall

so of the 3 none really to me a big deal. You could make a case the team you didn't mention(the team that is actually in last place)- Butler- had the most costly win so far(beating Marquette).

Bumped by request.

From a league perspective, we're most likely looking at 4 teams in the tournament, with Villanova and Creighton as 2-3 seeds. Maybe things break just right and Georgetown or Marquette makes it in without bumping Providence out, maybe things break in the worst possible way and Providence gets left out.

4 bids for these 10 programs is about what you'd predict in a low-average year. 2 of them with high seeds is a good year at the top. (A #1 seed would be a great year at the top, 6/10 bids would be a great year.)

Seton Hall (and St Johns) getting some wins in the league might cost us a fifth bid this year, but you want to have all of the programs in the conference be viable contenders--you don't want to have what DePaul was in the 2005-13 Big East. (So, it would be nice if DePaul could get out of the cellar of the new-look Big East someday.) Seton Hall being competitive in the league has to be good for their recruiting. (St Johns has been recruiting well enough, so we're just disappointing.)