(09-22-2014 09:50 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  

(09-22-2014 09:33 PM)HMK Wrote:  

(09-22-2014 08:50 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  

(09-22-2014 08:38 PM)HMK Wrote:  

(09-22-2014 07:07 PM)jmufan2008 Wrote:  "Just because it’s “private money” doesn’t mean it can’t be used for the advancement of JMU’s highest priority: education."

Surprising...when I give money I seem to remember options of want I want to direct it toward. I must have been mistaken. So since my Duke Club dollars are "private money", am I at risk of having those monies stolen and given to education. OMG Breeze?! You've uncovered a great way to raise some extra funds. Just take all the dollars that donors have pledged toward other specific organizations and use it for education. Thank you so much.

This is dumb enough I might have to type up an actual response to post on there. This is why I don't read the Breeze. Gives JMU a bad name with their terrible reporting and opinions. Deez, I'm not sure they get ANY part of the argument.

The Breeze article provides an insight that sports fans refuse to understand or accept. You are right that your gift to the Duke Club is a “restricted” and must be used to fund athletic scholarships.
Currently, the Duke Club does not raise sufficient funds to pay for all scholarships. Therefore, the cost is made up by “student fees”.

After fundraising for our athletic facilities, the remaining debt is paid for by “student fees.” Any construction, maintenance and operational cost for non-academic buildings such as parking garages, dorms, and UREC are paid for by combination of user fees and student fees.
After fundraising, the majority of the cost for the new convo will be paid for by “student fees”.

The governor has communicated that all the state colleges prepare for a cut in state funding of 5% this year and 7% next year. This loss of essential operational resources may be made up by a combination of many temporary measures; hiring freeze, not replacing equipment such as computers and automobiles, delaying maintenance, replacing retiring faculty with cheaper adjuncts, etc. The options are many, but none are long term solutions. Eventually, like the solutions of past years, the loss of state funding will be made up by the students. JMU cannot raise student fees while tuition is subject to raise. Total Cost = Tuition + Fees

Additionally, the state legislature has told state universities to control athletic costs. The recent articles and publicity about the high athletic costs at state universities while students are graduating with overbearing debt is a political nightmare for college administrators.

The politics gets worse, Jim Nolan of the Richmond Times Dispatch reports that 2,000 state full time classified employees are now receiving food stamps. JMU has many housekeepers making less than 20K which is at the threshold. In 2007 no state employees received food stamps. Can JMU build more magnificent buildings that are being maintained by underpaid employees?

Unlike professional sports, the headwinds for building a new convo at this moment are political suicide for President Alger. That is unless, you want to contribute the 88 million.

The budget that was passed cut far less than the 5% and 7% that schools were asked to prepare, FYI.

They new convo is far from political suicide..... That's exaggerating to the extreme. Many D1 schools in the state are preparing to build new athletic facilities. ODU need a stadium, VCU building practice facilities, etc.

The convo hasn't been touched in 30 years. It's time, and it will be.

I am sorry that you are so uninformed about the state of higher education. I have been involved in higher education for over 40 years so I have witnessed the dynamic changes in the to the recent political landscape. Do a bit of research, talk to a few of your former professors, ask students about their debt, visit with the underpaid and underappreciated grounds and housekeepers who have not had a pay increase in a decade, and then you will have an educated point of view and not an opinion.

I work in higher education finance for another university. I am well versed and very informed on the issues at hand.

Claiming that a president commits suicide by addressing outdated facilities is overly dramatic, just like your over the top response to me. The convo has been delayed for years due to budgetary issues, but it will be built sooner or later.

JMU will lose about 2.4 million next year, which is less than 1% of last year's budget.

I would love to debate higher Ed finance with you, but that would derail this topic. We probably share a lot of similar views. The bloat in support staff/admin is drawing resources from universities and increasing costs on students. It is a bubble, and it will burst as soon as students realize that debt burdens them and post grad salaries can't keep up.

I am sure we do share many of the same opinions.

There is no doubt the bubble will burst, in fact it already has at Virginia State. UMW is dealing with enrollment shortfall causing a financial situation that 4 years ago was not foreseen or predicted. It seems like yesterday UMW was 3rd in the state selectivity.

Family finances have been cited as a chief concern for a growing retention problem. I suspect the JMU student population comes from a similar economic base. I have contributed to the Madison Forever Fund. The president of UMW recently saved a deserving overextended student that works for me from dropping out through a similar fund.

I feel now is the time to hunker down and ride out the storm. I share
your enthusiasm for a new convo. However, during this period of unpredictable economics and changing demographics, this is not the time to raise student fees.

Quote:I am sure we do share many of the same opinions.

There is no doubt the bubble will burst, in fact it already has at Virginia State. UMW is dealing with enrollment shortfall causing a financial situation that 4 years ago was not foreseen or predicted. It seems like yesterday UMW was 3rd in the state selectivity.

Family finances have been cited as a chief concern for a growing retention problem. I suspect the JMU student population comes from a similar economic base. I have contributed to the Madison Forever Fund. The president of UMW recently saved a deserving overextended student that works for me from dropping out through a similar fund.

I feel now is the time to hunker down and ride out the storm. I share
your enthusiasm for a new convo. However, during this period of unpredictable economics and changing demographics, this is not the time to raise student fees.

Many HBCU's will be the first to close shop (St. Paul's). They served a purpose for many generations, but now there are other options for those students.

UMW and JMU are not immune, though I feel larger state U's are safer than smaller schools. When the bubble bursts, the vast majority of school's will feel downward pressure on enrollment.

(09-22-2014 03:13 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  The author of that obviously has no clue of how funds can be used and is uneducated and ignorant on the matter in several ways. When someone makes a private donation, they can allocate it to the building of a new facility if they choose to. It's not a general fund where there's a big pot and JMU is taking money out of anything related to academics to fund an athletic facility. Donors are specifically giving those funds to build that facility. To make a statement like "is there a place where this $88 million can be spent for something better? Improving education or curriculum, or perhaps paying professors a competitive salary?" Whether you agree with the premise or not it just doesn't work that way.

First, I want to go on record as stating that I unequivocally want a new Convo (along with a new name for the building!). I remember walking into the building the day it opened and thinking, "this thing is already out of date."

That being said, I think theoretically the article makes a sound point with regard to private funding. Obviously, there isn't one "big pot" of money from which the funds are controlled at the University's discretion. But, in the universe of JMU donors there is one big pot- and as our donor statistics show, it's not nearly big enough.

What I mean is, that on a micro level, each of us ( with very few exceptions) has a budget set up for charitable contributions. Out of that budget we designate a certain amount to be allocated to JMU. Personally, within the amount I have designated to JMU there are certain "projects" that I designate my contributions to be allocated towards. Currently, I donate to the Business School and the Duke Club. I am planning on making a commitment towards the building of the new business school which will require to take away from my typical levels of giving to the scholarship fund in the B school and the Duke Club. If I choose to donate towards the new Convo, my overall level of giving may go up a little, but I will, again, reallocate (lesson) the funds going to the scholarship, Duke Club and B School building.

So, if the Convo is put on hold a larger percentage of my dollars would go towards education. I believe this can be extrapolated to a macro level which would support the article's premise that more money "could" be used towards education, teacher salaries, etc..

(09-23-2014 08:10 AM)JMU2004 Wrote:  

Quote:I am sure we do share many of the same opinions.

There is no doubt the bubble will burst, in fact it already has at Virginia State. UMW is dealing with enrollment shortfall causing a financial situation that 4 years ago was not foreseen or predicted. It seems like yesterday UMW was 3rd in the state selectivity.

Family finances have been cited as a chief concern for a growing retention problem. I suspect the JMU student population comes from a similar economic base. I have contributed to the Madison Forever Fund. The president of UMW recently saved a deserving overextended student that works for me from dropping out through a similar fund.

I feel now is the time to hunker down and ride out the storm. I share
your enthusiasm for a new convo. However, during this period of unpredictable economics and changing demographics, this is not the time to raise student fees.

Many HBCU's will be the first to close shop (St. Paul's). They served a purpose for many generations, but now there are other options for those students.

UMW and JMU are not immune, though I feel larger state U's are safer than smaller schools. When the bubble bursts, the vast majority of school's will feel downward pressure on enrollment.

Smaller, less well funded institutions will struggle...whether HBCUs or not, so you're absolutely correct about that.

Still, where is all this pessimism regarding JMU's future coming from? The fact that demographic change and pressure on finances make the future of Higher Ed difficult to predict? Welcome to the real world where both the aforementioned factors (and many more) make Higher Ed an interesting place to work.

Take comfort that JMU is positioned in a good place right now...proof of which is that applications are continuing to increase (or, in Real Estate parlance, JMU remains a hot commodity and is selling in a prime and desirable neighborhood). I realize this is a board devoted to all-things JMU sports...but planned investments in expanded student services facilities like the new Health Center, enlarging UREC, the building of University Park, and the pending expansion of Carrier Library and facilities for the COB will keep JMU in a competitive position when vying for new students.

To be sure, images of desirable properties can and do change...neighborhoods get run down and their once prime characteristics morph into something no longer so desired...yet JMU's administration has taken, and is continuing to take steps, that will protect and build upon on the institution's current status. Oh, and the new Convo will get built...it's just a matter of time.

Are you sure applications are continuing to increase - another thread states that freshman apps are down this year.

Others are saying that JMU has become a back-up school with small time athletics.

The acceptance rate has gone from 30% to 64%.

What is good about that?

(09-23-2014 11:28 AM)Dukeman Wrote:  Are you sure applications are continuing to increase - another thread states that freshman apps are down this year.

Others are saying that JMU has become a back-up school with small time athletics.

The acceptance rate has gone from 30% to 64%.

What is good about that?

Your facts are all wrong, plus you seem to have mixed up at least one metric. You've also thrown in hearsay (i.e "Others are saying"..."back up school" and "small time athletics") as a factual considerations, when they are nothing more than your personal opinion.

Here's a fact...acceptance rates and enrollment rates have been relatively stable for decades. JMU accepts some 60 odd percent, and JMU enrolls somewhere in the high 30 odd percent. The "acceptance rate" has not changed much at all over the past 20 years, even as the size of the student body has nearly doubled.

Here's a fact...year over year applicant numbers have been steadily increasing, even during the recent time period sometimes called "The Great Recession."

Here's another fact...JMU is attracting ever larger numbers of excellent applicants, but JMU's inability to provide scholarship support has severely limited JMU's ability to enroll those top tier students, who (no surprise here) will follow the money offered by better heeled institutions. Ham can chime in here, because these same top tier students JMU wishes to attract are looking for a more robust commitment to an Honors College-type experience, and we're making improvements, but the progress is slowed by (you guessed it) lack of $$

(09-23-2014 11:44 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(09-23-2014 11:28 AM)Dukeman Wrote:  Are you sure applications are continuing to increase - another thread states that freshman apps are down this year.

Others are saying that JMU has become a back-up school with small time athletics.

The acceptance rate has gone from 30% to 64%.

What is good about that?

Your facts are all wrong, plus you seem to have mixed up at least one metric. You've also thrown in hearsay (i.e "Others are saying"..."back up school" and "small time athletics") as a factual considerations, when they are nothing more than your personal opinion.

Here's a fact...acceptance rates and enrollment rates have been relatively stable for decades. JMU accepts some 60 odd percent, and JMU enrolls somewhere in the high 30 odd percent. The "acceptance rate" has not changed much at all over the past 20 years, even as the size of the student body has nearly doubled.

Here's a fact...year over year applicant numbers have been steadily increasing, even during the recent time period sometimes called "The Great Recession."

Here's another fact...JMU is attracting ever larger numbers of excellent applicants, but JMU's inability to provide scholarship support has severely limited JMU's ability to enroll those top tier students, who (no surprise here) will follow the money offered by better heeled institutions. Ham can chime in here, because these same top tier students JMU wishes to attract are looking for a more robust commitment to an Honors College-type experience, and we're making improvements, but the progress is slowed by (you guessed it) lack of $$

You have definitely stated the truth with this one.

With a son who is in his senior year in HS we are in the middle of our college search. One thing that is apparent to me is that JMU is still an exceptional value compared to other tuition rates we're seeing. And we are out of State!!!

Longhorn - What you are saying is completely wrong based on the numbers/facts.

"Acceptance Rates have remainded stable for decades" - wrong (65% in 1999, 31% in 1988)

"JMU enrolls in the high 30 odd percent for decades" - wrong (50% in 1988, 29% in 2014)

"Applicatant numbers are increasing" - lets see your numbers

"JMU is attracting even larger number of excellent applicatants" - lets see your numbers?

Fact - Average SAT score declined from 1995 to 2002 by 25 points at a time when average scores were increasing nationwide.

Year Measure Reported Target Year/Term Performance JMU acceptances
2013-14 Fall 2013 60.5%
2012-13 Fall 2012 63.5%
2011-12 Fall 2011 61.3%
2010-11 Fall 2010 59.9%
2009-10 Fall 2009 61.4%
2008-09 Fall 2008 65.1%
2007-08 Fall 2007 63.5%
2006-07 Fall 2006 62.7%
2005-06 Fall 2005 67.7%
2004-05 Fall 2004 63.1%
2003-04 Fall 2003 62.5%
2002-03 Fall 2002 57.9%
2001-02 Fall 2001 64.3%
2000-01 Fall 2000 64.2%
1999-00 Fall 1999 65.4%
1998-99 Fall 1998 59.4%
1997-98 Fall 1997 54.9%
1996-97 Fall 1996 63.3%
1995-96 Fall 1995 56.8%
1994-95 Fall 1994 52.6%
1993-94 Fall 1993 47.1%
1992-93 Fall 1992 44.0%
1991-92 Fall 1991 44.6%
1990-91 Fall 1990 43.3%

Year Measure Reported Target Year/Term Performance JMU Yield
2013-14 Fall 2013 29.7%
2012-13 Fall 2012 30.1%
2011-12 Fall 2011 29.4%
2010-11 Fall 2010 30.1%
2009-10 Fall 2009 30.7%
2008-09 Fall 2008 31.6%
2007-08 Fall 2007 33.2%
2006-07 Fall 2006 33.7%
2005-06 Fall 2005 34.2%
2004-05 Fall 2004 34.7%
2003-04 Fall 2003 36.0%
2002-03 Fall 2002 36.3%
2001-02 Fall 2001 35.8%
2000-01 Fall 2000 37.0%
1999-00 Fall 1999 35.8%
1998-99 Fall 1998 38.0%
1997-98 Fall 1997 39.8%
1996-97 Fall 1996 38.6%
1995-96 Fall 1995 36.3%
1994-95 Fall 1994 37.1%
1993-94 Fall 1993 39.4%
1992-93 Fall 1992 39.3%
1991-92 Fall 1991 40.6%
1990-91 Fall 1990 39.5%
Year Measure Reported Target Year/Term Performance # of first time freshman applicants
2013-14 Fall 2013 23,400
2012-13 Fall 2012 22,648
2011-12 Fall 2011 22,349
2010-11 Fall 2010 22,221
2009-10 Fall 2009 20,963
2008-09 Fall 2008 19,245
2007-08 Fall 2007 18,352
2006-07 Fall 2006 17,765
2005-06 Fall 2005 16,388
2004-05 Fall 2004 15,013
2003-04 Fall 2003 15,056
2002-03 Fall 2002 15,639
2001-02 Fall 2001 14,114
2000-01 Fall 2000 13,573
1999-00 Fall 1999 12,980
1998-99 Fall 1998 13,157
1997-98 Fall 1997 14,005
1996-97 Fall 1996 13,322
1995-96 Fall 1995 12,314
1994-95 Fall 1994 11,712
1993-94 Fall 1993 11,223
1992-93 Fall 1992 11,832
1991-92 Fall 1991 11,726
1990-91 Fall 1990 11,198


Longhorn is completely wrong. Dukeman is right. These have not been good trends in my opinion.

The school has been growing, but by all means, continue to disregard that.

It is my belief that high school students apply to many, many more schools than we did back in the day. As it was very normal to apply to only one, but most applied to two schools and about the most anyone applied to were three. Students today easily send out six or more. How might this skew the numbers?

(09-23-2014 01:23 PM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  It is my belief that high school students apply to many, many more schools than we did back in the day. As it was very normal to apply to only one, but most applied to two schools and about the most anyone applied to were three. Students today easily send out six or more. How might this skew the numbers?

Hey hey hey...there's no room for context in this discussion.

The size of the freshmen class has more than doubled, yet the incoming SAT scores have increased significantly. The last I heard we had the most applicants of any school in the state. And as BleedingPurple stated, the norm has shifted. Most students, unless they are 100% sure they'll get into their first choice, will submit half a dozen to a dozen applications. That leads to worse yields across the board. Show me any other school in the state (other than WM or UVA) that hasn't happened to at some point in the last 30 years and maybe I'll change my mind. And LH wasn't completely wrong...sorry...it hasn't been stable for "decades"...just 18 or so years. The state of affairs is that kids today apply to several schools and for whatever (terrible) reason, they may not choose JMU. It happens. I'd rather our administration concern themselves with the quality of students (of which we have significantly improved), not just some random statistics.

So while we're off topic anyways, I was curious and looked at us news data for all va schools. The fewest percent were accepted by Washington and Lee, not surprisingly.
Guess who was second at a shocking 21%? Liberty.
I can't grasp how this is possible unless they're counting every eyeball that sees a Liberty ad as an application. It's not the top applied school with some astronomical amount of applications. It's also laughable that they claim 47k students. How many are campus students?

(09-23-2014 03:04 PM)Potomac Wrote:  So while we're off topic anyways, I was curious and looked at us news data for all va schools. The fewest percent were accepted by Washington and Lee, not surprisingly.
Guess who was second at a shocking 21%? Liberty.
I can't grasp how this is possible unless they're counting every eyeball that sees a Liberty ad as an application. It's not the top applied school with some astronomical amount of applications. It's also laughable that they claim 47k students. How many are campus students?

Never trust a number put out by Liberty. I'm guessing they count every single application received, including those that are incomplete.

From Collegedata.com "Entrance Difficulty
Minimally Difficult: Most freshmen were not in the top 50% of their high school class and scored somewhat below 1010 on the SAT I or below 19 on the ACT; up to 95% of all applicants accepted."

When my kids applied to college (JMU both Class of 2010 and 2015) the application process was a real eye opener and change from when I applied back in 1973. At that time I sent out two I think. Now a days, everything is done online and with the Common App so commonplace it is so easy for students to send out many apps as compared to my and my wifes days when everything was hand written or typed. I remember watching the older daughter apply back in 2006 and once the base info was input it was just pulled up for all the other VA schools she applied to. I remember shaking my head and saying Man this is so easy!!

In talking with some of the high school guidance people a few years ago they said that the number of apps/student had increased dramatically. As a previous poster stated kids are now sending out many apps (because it is so easy to do) to cover all their bases which has probably skewed the data somewhat when compared to the 80's or the 90's. Certainly a great change from my days!!

Now back to the original topic. I think we all would like to see a new Convo and some other facilities. As usual it is all about the $'s. A new Convo will come I am sure, it just may take somewhat longer than we anticipate or would want.

Brian

(09-23-2014 03:04 PM)Potomac Wrote:  So while we're off topic anyways, I was curious and looked at us news data for all va schools. The fewest percent were accepted by Washington and Lee, not surprisingly.
Guess who was second at a shocking 21%? Liberty.
I can't grasp how this is possible unless they're counting every eyeball that sees a Liberty ad as an application. It's not the top applied school with some astronomical amount of applications. It's also laughable that they claim 47k students. How many are campus students?

Wow. my job puts me in touch with a lot of students who have applied to LU, and I do not know of a single one ever being rejected. And many of the students to which I refer were not at or near the top of their classes. That said, I honestly cannot recall ever hearing of someone getting rejected by Ole Dirty either.

At UMW we have had applicants send in their deposit thinking they are committed to coming in August. When they do not show up in August, we find out they sent deposits to 3 universities.
These students go to the 3 summer orientations. Their decision is then based on the orientation experience.

(09-23-2014 12:51 PM)Dukes 92 Wrote:  Year Measure Reported Target Year/Term Performance JMU acceptances
2013-14 Fall 2013 60.5%
2012-13 Fall 2012 63.5%
2011-12 Fall 2011 61.3%
2010-11 Fall 2010 59.9%
2009-10 Fall 2009 61.4%
2008-09 Fall 2008 65.1%
2007-08 Fall 2007 63.5%
2006-07 Fall 2006 62.7%
2005-06 Fall 2005 67.7%
2004-05 Fall 2004 63.1%
2003-04 Fall 2003 62.5%
2002-03 Fall 2002 57.9%
2001-02 Fall 2001 64.3%
2000-01 Fall 2000 64.2%
1999-00 Fall 1999 65.4%
1998-99 Fall 1998 59.4%
1997-98 Fall 1997 54.9%
1996-97 Fall 1996 63.3%
1995-96 Fall 1995 56.8%
1994-95 Fall 1994 52.6%
1993-94 Fall 1993 47.1%
1992-93 Fall 1992 44.0%
1991-92 Fall 1991 44.6%
1990-91 Fall 1990 43.3%

Year Measure Reported Target Year/Term Performance JMU Yield
2013-14 Fall 2013 29.7%
2012-13 Fall 2012 30.1%
2011-12 Fall 2011 29.4%
2010-11 Fall 2010 30.1%
2009-10 Fall 2009 30.7%
2008-09 Fall 2008 31.6%
2007-08 Fall 2007 33.2%
2006-07 Fall 2006 33.7%
2005-06 Fall 2005 34.2%
2004-05 Fall 2004 34.7%
2003-04 Fall 2003 36.0%
2002-03 Fall 2002 36.3%
2001-02 Fall 2001 35.8%
2000-01 Fall 2000 37.0%
1999-00 Fall 1999 35.8%
1998-99 Fall 1998 38.0%
1997-98 Fall 1997 39.8%
1996-97 Fall 1996 38.6%
1995-96 Fall 1995 36.3%
1994-95 Fall 1994 37.1%
1993-94 Fall 1993 39.4%
1992-93 Fall 1992 39.3%
1991-92 Fall 1991 40.6%
1990-91 Fall 1990 39.5%
Year Measure Reported Target Year/Term Performance # of first time freshman applicants
2013-14 Fall 2013 23,400
2012-13 Fall 2012 22,648
2011-12 Fall 2011 22,349
2010-11 Fall 2010 22,221
2009-10 Fall 2009 20,963
2008-09 Fall 2008 19,245
2007-08 Fall 2007 18,352
2006-07 Fall 2006 17,765
2005-06 Fall 2005 16,388
2004-05 Fall 2004 15,013
2003-04 Fall 2003 15,056
2002-03 Fall 2002 15,639
2001-02 Fall 2001 14,114
2000-01 Fall 2000 13,573
1999-00 Fall 1999 12,980
1998-99 Fall 1998 13,157
1997-98 Fall 1997 14,005
1996-97 Fall 1996 13,322
1995-96 Fall 1995 12,314
1994-95 Fall 1994 11,712
1993-94 Fall 1993 11,223
1992-93 Fall 1992 11,832
1991-92 Fall 1991 11,726
1990-91 Fall 1990 11,198


Longhorn is completely wrong. Dukeman is right. These have not been good trends in my opinion.

You wish. Please tell me you're not an accountant or someone who interprets statistical information.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(09-23-2014 03:44 PM)jmutoml757 Wrote:  

(09-23-2014 03:04 PM)Potomac Wrote:  So while we're off topic anyways, I was curious and looked at us news data for all va schools. The fewest percent were accepted by Washington and Lee, not surprisingly.
Guess who was second at a shocking 21%? Liberty.
I can't grasp how this is possible unless they're counting every eyeball that sees a Liberty ad as an application. It's not the top applied school with some astronomical amount of applications. It's also laughable that they claim 47k students. How many are campus students?

Wow. my job puts me in touch with a lot of students who have applied to LU, and I do not know of a single one ever being rejected. And many of the students to which I refer were not at or near the top of their classes. That said, I honestly cannot recall ever hearing of someone getting rejected by Ole Dirty either.

my wife has told me a story about 20 times by this point. she knew someone from her social group at her high school that was rejected by liberty. the reason why he was rejected was because, like every college, they require you to take the SAT. he chose to not take the SAT and completed his entire application, minus the SAT scores being submitted. They sent him a rejection letter as a result.
He didn't end up going to college at all.