If part of the strategy is gaining more money for Basketball then that could very well open the P5 to look at bringing in more Basketball schools to balance out the leagues.Some Big East and AAC schools and some Western schools could be absorbed into The new D1. Better choices would feature Good Football and Basketball programs then added down the list for Basketball strength. Basketball is still a major draw in most parts of this Country.

(01-21-2014 10:26 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  If part of the strategy is gaining more money for Basketball then that could very well open the P5 to look at bringing in more Basketball schools to balance out the leagues.Some Big East and AAC schools and some Western schools could be absorbed into The new D1. Better choices would feature Good Football and Basketball programs then added down the list for Basketball strength. Basketball is still a major draw in most parts of this Country.

IMO if there was a long term plan to start a breakaway organization with its own hoops tournament, the better approach would be to invite a few no-football conferences to join the new organization. The P5 conferences themselves aren't going to want to bring a group of no-football schools into their leagues, but would be fine with having no-football leagues at the table for purposes of sports other than football.

(01-21-2014 12:10 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(01-21-2014 10:26 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  If part of the strategy is gaining more money for Basketball then that could very well open the P5 to look at bringing in more Basketball schools to balance out the leagues.Some Big East and AAC schools and some Western schools could be absorbed into The new D1. Better choices would feature Good Football and Basketball programs then added down the list for Basketball strength. Basketball is still a major draw in most parts of this Country.

IMO if there was a long term plan to start a breakaway organization with its own hoops tournament, the better approach would be to invite a few no-football conferences to join the new organization. The P5 conferences themselves aren't going to want to bring a group of no-football schools into their leagues, but would be fine with having no-football leagues at the table for purposes of sports other than football.

I'm assuming you mean conferences with multiple bid bball teams like the Big East and Atlantic 10. This leaves out the America East, Atlantic Sun, Big Sky, Big South, Big West, Colonial, CUSA, Horizon, Ivy, MAAC, MAC, MEAC, MVC, Northeastern, Patriot, Southern, Southland, SWAC, Summit, Sun Belt, WAC, and WCC. That would basically eliminate all the 13-16 seed teams that would've made the tournament from winning their conference tournaments. That in addition to the traditional bball schools still in the AAC and MWC.

It will be a very disappointing March Madness if you don't have moments like Norfolk State over Mizzou, Lehigh over Duke, Valpo over Ole Miss, Princeton over UCLA, Bucknell over Kansas, etc.

I really hope this doesn't happen, but I agree with what you said.

(01-20-2014 06:48 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 06:41 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 06:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 06:04 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  Your list just of "reasons for expansion" doesn't make a lot of sense to discuss right now. When the CFP and all the TV deals run it's course, then yeah, maybe we talk about a major reshuffling of the deck again. Even then, that time period to run out those contracts is an eternity for developing technologies and how entertainment is distributed.

Actually a breakaway would be the best thing that could happen. Insanity is staying in the NCAA and trying to make a bloated out of touch bureaucracy try to work. It's easier to make the break. The CFP and the new contracts don't mean a danged thing. They were signed with NCAA teams. New contracts would be needed for all making the break. The CFP wants the best teams and are banking on it. They would sign a new deal in a heartbeat, especially if they didn't have to work within the morass of NCAA regulations.

The best thing the G5 could do is breakaway with us.

I agree 100% with this but you know as well as I do that the P5 likely are not interested. Also don't think it's as easy as this post makes it seem. Lots of money has been ponied up and is flowing for the CFP and TV deals.

My point is who did they pony it up for? The money will go where the product goes. If you took the G5 and streamlined it to a G4 and took the P5 and streamlined it to a P4 you have your playoff structure. The P4 will need closer OOC games for baseball, basketball, and all minor sports. There is absolutely no reason why the P4 and G4 should not share those sports, it cuts overhead, adds to variety, and provides for some drama in both the baseball and basketball tournaments. Let the P4 limit competition to 10 P4 schools and two G4 schools per year. The G4 gets exposure and the big pay day so they don't lose that money. With a playoff structure of their own for football they gain revenue. All they have to do is remain flexible for television. And in the process they separate themselves from everyone else. If P4 expansion is needed then you have a closed pool of G4 teams to choose from. It would be much better for the G4 than remaining in the NCAA, and you'll keep more of your basketball revenue. The biggest obstacle is simply in breaking with old bad habits, but then it always is.

I'm fine with most everything you have proposed except the seperate football playoffs for the proposed P4 and G4. A lower level football playoff devalues the G5 football to the point of being worthless. As i see it, the G4/5 must have a path to the highest level championship or the damage to the G4/5 would be extensive enough to ruin entire athletic departments.

(01-21-2014 12:34 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 06:48 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 06:41 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 06:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 06:04 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  Your list just of "reasons for expansion" doesn't make a lot of sense to discuss right now. When the CFP and all the TV deals run it's course, then yeah, maybe we talk about a major reshuffling of the deck again. Even then, that time period to run out those contracts is an eternity for developing technologies and how entertainment is distributed.

Actually a breakaway would be the best thing that could happen. Insanity is staying in the NCAA and trying to make a bloated out of touch bureaucracy try to work. It's easier to make the break. The CFP and the new contracts don't mean a danged thing. They were signed with NCAA teams. New contracts would be needed for all making the break. The CFP wants the best teams and are banking on it. They would sign a new deal in a heartbeat, especially if they didn't have to work within the morass of NCAA regulations.

The best thing the G5 could do is breakaway with us.

I agree 100% with this but you know as well as I do that the P5 likely are not interested. Also don't think it's as easy as this post makes it seem. Lots of money has been ponied up and is flowing for the CFP and TV deals.

My point is who did they pony it up for? The money will go where the product goes. If you took the G5 and streamlined it to a G4 and took the P5 and streamlined it to a P4 you have your playoff structure. The P4 will need closer OOC games for baseball, basketball, and all minor sports. There is absolutely no reason why the P4 and G4 should not share those sports, it cuts overhead, adds to variety, and provides for some drama in both the baseball and basketball tournaments. Let the P4 limit competition to 10 P4 schools and two G4 schools per year. The G4 gets exposure and the big pay day so they don't lose that money. With a playoff structure of their own for football they gain revenue. All they have to do is remain flexible for television. And in the process they separate themselves from everyone else. If P4 expansion is needed then you have a closed pool of G4 teams to choose from. It would be much better for the G4 than remaining in the NCAA, and you'll keep more of your basketball revenue. The biggest obstacle is simply in breaking with old bad habits, but then it always is.

I'm fine with most everything you have proposed except the seperate football playoffs for the proposed P4 and G4. A lower level football playoff devalues the G5 football to the point of being worthless. As i see it, the G4/5 must have a path to the highest level championship or the damage to the G4/5 would be extensive enough to ruin entire athletic departments.

The only work around I could see for that 1 issue would be a 12 team playoff in which the P4 conference runner ups would open the first round of the playoff against the G4 champions. Those winners would then play the 4 P4 conference champions and play their way in with that kind of set up. The P4 might go for a format that included two each from their conferences. That might be weighted enough for the P4 conferences to give access to 4 G4 champions. Both would make a lot more money with a set up like that. It's just an idea.

(01-21-2014 12:30 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  

(01-21-2014 12:10 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(01-21-2014 10:26 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  If part of the strategy is gaining more money for Basketball then that could very well open the P5 to look at bringing in more Basketball schools to balance out the leagues.Some Big East and AAC schools and some Western schools could be absorbed into The new D1. Better choices would feature Good Football and Basketball programs then added down the list for Basketball strength. Basketball is still a major draw in most parts of this Country.

IMO if there was a long term plan to start a breakaway organization with its own hoops tournament, the better approach would be to invite a few no-football conferences to join the new organization. The P5 conferences themselves aren't going to want to bring a group of no-football schools into their leagues, but would be fine with having no-football leagues at the table for purposes of sports other than football.

I'm assuming you mean conferences with multiple bid bball teams like the Big East and Atlantic 10. This leaves out the America East, Atlantic Sun, Big Sky, Big South, Big West, Colonial, CUSA, Horizon, Ivy, MAAC, MAC, MEAC, MVC, Northeastern, Patriot, Southern, Southland, SWAC, Summit, Sun Belt, WAC, and WCC. That would basically eliminate all the 13-16 seed teams that would've made the tournament from winning their conference tournaments. That in addition to the traditional bball schools still in the AAC and MWC.

It will be a very disappointing March Madness if you don't have moments like Norfolk State over Mizzou, Lehigh over Duke, Valpo over Ole Miss, Princeton over UCLA, Bucknell over Kansas, etc.

I really hope this doesn't happen, but I agree with what you said.

Agreed, to be clear, I'm not saying that this is what I'd most want as a fan.

There would have to be more than 2 or 3 no-football leagues if this were the plan, though. The P5 is 65 schools, and if the post-NCAA group is going to have a 64-team basketball tournament, they'll want a pool of at least twice that many basketball teams. That would mean having at least 5 no-football conferences in the group. It wouldn't have to exclude the best hoops programs from schools in the MWC or AAC, but they might have to make the difficult choice to join a no-football conference (e.g., SDSU, UNLV, and UNM joining Gonzaga, St. Mary's, and BYU in the WCC -- that would be a tough hoops league) and then find some other accommodation for their football team. Maybe there could be a handful of indy FB teams (including ND and BYU) within the new association. In any event, a breakaway association is a long-term project and not something that would be up and running in the next few years.

(01-21-2014 12:59 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-21-2014 12:34 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 06:48 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 06:41 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 06:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Actually a breakaway would be the best thing that could happen. Insanity is staying in the NCAA and trying to make a bloated out of touch bureaucracy try to work. It's easier to make the break. The CFP and the new contracts don't mean a danged thing. They were signed with NCAA teams. New contracts would be needed for all making the break. The CFP wants the best teams and are banking on it. They would sign a new deal in a heartbeat, especially if they didn't have to work within the morass of NCAA regulations.

The best thing the G5 could do is breakaway with us.

I agree 100% with this but you know as well as I do that the P5 likely are not interested. Also don't think it's as easy as this post makes it seem. Lots of money has been ponied up and is flowing for the CFP and TV deals.

My point is who did they pony it up for? The money will go where the product goes. If you took the G5 and streamlined it to a G4 and took the P5 and streamlined it to a P4 you have your playoff structure. The P4 will need closer OOC games for baseball, basketball, and all minor sports. There is absolutely no reason why the P4 and G4 should not share those sports, it cuts overhead, adds to variety, and provides for some drama in both the baseball and basketball tournaments. Let the P4 limit competition to 10 P4 schools and two G4 schools per year. The G4 gets exposure and the big pay day so they don't lose that money. With a playoff structure of their own for football they gain revenue. All they have to do is remain flexible for television. And in the process they separate themselves from everyone else. If P4 expansion is needed then you have a closed pool of G4 teams to choose from. It would be much better for the G4 than remaining in the NCAA, and you'll keep more of your basketball revenue. The biggest obstacle is simply in breaking with old bad habits, but then it always is.

I'm fine with most everything you have proposed except the seperate football playoffs for the proposed P4 and G4. A lower level football playoff devalues the G5 football to the point of being worthless. As i see it, the G4/5 must have a path to the highest level championship or the damage to the G4/5 would be extensive enough to ruin entire athletic departments.

The only work around I could see for that 1 issue would be a 12 team playoff in which the P4 conference runner ups would open the first round of the playoff against the G4 champions. Those winners would then play the 4 P4 conference champions and play their way in with that kind of set up. The P4 might go for a format that included two each from their conferences. That might be weighted enough for the P4 conferences to give access to 4 G4 champions. Both would make a lot more money with a set up like that. It's just an idea.

I would rather have all the conferences represented but JR I like how you think.

I was also showing where currently say the Big 12 is geared towards football only as the added value base used to expand, They could say reach out to Cincinnati, Memphis, UConn , UNLV types that could drastically increase the Basketball revenue in the league like Kentucky does for the SEC. makes Them a Basketball force to be reckoned with come Tournament time were 6 Competitive invites could exist. Just using the BIG12 As an example only but could work with others.

(01-21-2014 02:14 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  I was also showing where currently say the Big 12 is geared towards football only as the added value base used to expand, They could say reach out to Cincinnati, Memphis, UConn , UNLV types that could drastically increase the Basketball revenue in the league like Kentucky does for the SEC. makes Them a Basketball force to be reckoned with come Tournament time were 6 Competitive invites could exist. Just using the BIG12 As an example only but could work with others.

I sure wish (for the sake of UCONN and March Madness) basketball held more value in CR. But it's all about that foosball...

(01-21-2014 02:14 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  I was also showing where currently say the Big 12 is geared towards football only as the added value base used to expand, They could say reach out to Cincinnati, Memphis, UConn , UNLV types that could drastically increase the Basketball revenue in the league like Kentucky does for the SEC. makes Them a Basketball force to be reckoned with come Tournament time were 6 Competitive invites could exist. Just using the BIG12 As an example only but could work with others.

What's more it is not as if Cincinnati sucks in football. Memphis and UNLV would likely get a whole lot better in football in the B12 as they would be able to sign recruits they currently can't get.

When the play off goes to eight . Making a G5 school mandatory if they finish 12th or higher like the BCS plan . Bowl system stays intact one lower tier school has an easier path than the seven P5 schools . The current system of sixty plus teams having bowl games or successful years will continue . A team like Cincinnati gets on a roll they could have an easier path than OSU .P5 or G5 same as BCS or non BCS nothing new especially if every FBS school can offer a stipend .

(01-21-2014 12:59 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-21-2014 12:34 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 06:48 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 06:41 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 06:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Actually a breakaway would be the best thing that could happen. Insanity is staying in the NCAA and trying to make a bloated out of touch bureaucracy try to work. It's easier to make the break. The CFP and the new contracts don't mean a danged thing. They were signed with NCAA teams. New contracts would be needed for all making the break. The CFP wants the best teams and are banking on it. They would sign a new deal in a heartbeat, especially if they didn't have to work within the morass of NCAA regulations.

The best thing the G5 could do is breakaway with us.

I agree 100% with this but you know as well as I do that the P5 likely are not interested. Also don't think it's as easy as this post makes it seem. Lots of money has been ponied up and is flowing for the CFP and TV deals.

My point is who did they pony it up for? The money will go where the product goes. If you took the G5 and streamlined it to a G4 and took the P5 and streamlined it to a P4 you have your playoff structure. The P4 will need closer OOC games for baseball, basketball, and all minor sports. There is absolutely no reason why the P4 and G4 should not share those sports, it cuts overhead, adds to variety, and provides for some drama in both the baseball and basketball tournaments. Let the P4 limit competition to 10 P4 schools and two G4 schools per year. The G4 gets exposure and the big pay day so they don't lose that money. With a playoff structure of their own for football they gain revenue. All they have to do is remain flexible for television. And in the process they separate themselves from everyone else. If P4 expansion is needed then you have a closed pool of G4 teams to choose from. It would be much better for the G4 than remaining in the NCAA, and you'll keep more of your basketball revenue. The biggest obstacle is simply in breaking with old bad habits, but then it always is.

I'm fine with most everything you have proposed except the seperate football playoffs for the proposed P4 and G4. A lower level football playoff devalues the G5 football to the point of being worthless. As i see it, the G4/5 must have a path to the highest level championship or the damage to the G4/5 would be extensive enough to ruin entire athletic departments.

The only work around I could see for that 1 issue would be a 12 team playoff in which the P4 conference runner ups would open the first round of the playoff against the G4 champions. Those winners would then play the 4 P4 conference champions and play their way in with that kind of set up. The P4 might go for a format that included two each from their conferences. That might be weighted enough for the P4 conferences to give access to 4 G4 champions. Both would make a lot more money with a set up like that. It's just an idea.

That would be fine. It could even be less intrusive. Say an 8 team playoff. P5 (or 4) champs would be AQ. One guaranteed slot for the highest rated G5 champ and 3 "wild card" at large slots. Theoretically that's a guaranteed path to the playoff for the G5 plus some additional access via the slight chance of an "at large" bid.