My take on it, we lost the damn game at the start of the 2nd half. Team came out, and for some reason just wasn't ready to play. UConn started the half with what, a 7-9 point run. WTF. And yea, the 4 guard lineup at the end when their big guy fouled out was also a head scratcher. Oh well, hopefully we can take care of L/O. And yep, I'll be there to see it....GO TIGERS!!!!

(01-18-2014 10:24 AM)wylioats Wrote:  My take on it, we lost the damn game at the start of the 2nd half. Team came out, and for some reason just wasn't ready to play. UConn started the half with what, a 7-9 point run. WTF. And yea, the 4 guard lineup at the end when their big guy fouled out was also a head scratcher. Oh well, hopefully we can take care of L/O. And yep, I'll be there to see it....GO TIGERS!!!!

That stretch was WAAAAAY more important in my mind. Terrible defense in that stretch, terrible rebounding. Put us on the back foot all second half, took the air out of the crowd.

2 defensive rebounds in one half of major collegiate basketball. A team goes 7-7 from the field and 6-6 from the line to close the game on the road. Obviously, the proper adjustments were made. Obviously, there shouldn't be criticism in anyway of Pastner.

(01-18-2014 10:12 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(01-18-2014 10:06 AM)DicksHatBand Wrote:  

(01-18-2014 10:01 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(01-18-2014 10:00 AM)DicksHatBand Wrote:  

(01-18-2014 09:40 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  We ran it for less than 2 minutes.

And it cost us the game.

Keep telling yourself that, Dick.

I wish it weren't the case MC.

I get that. Everyone here has an opinion as to why we lost. I just feel like a lot of posters here are taking the easy way out, and already making up their minds on the reasons for the loss without really, critically thinking about it. If you don't fit that description, and you've thought out this position, I can't fault you.

Why don't we just fire every FB and BB coach we have and let the people on this board coach. We sure do have a lot of arm chair qb's with 100 different ways that our coaches can't coach. It is like listening to Jeff Wienberger.

It's a message board. It's designed for comments and opinions I'm sure. Personally, next year is really going to be interesting. And you think some of us are freaking out now...

Like most things in life, the reason for this loss cannot be attributed to one specific thing. It was a combination of many things, some of which include:

UConn shooting lights out - part of which was contributed to by allowing some wide open threes and too many layups, but they still hit an unusually high %
poor rebounding - although many of our rebound misses were due to lucky long bounces off the rim that took the ball out of the normal rebounding zones
a poor end to the first half and an even poorer start to the second half
Joe's two poor plays after the UConn turnover in the last minute
not taking better advantage of our inside game
and of course, the minute+ stretch of four guards at the 4:48 mark

There may be a time and place where the four guards will work, but that was clearly not one of them. Their big just fouled out and we already had a clear advantage inside on the offensive end. When UConn put in a smaller player after the foul-out, it almost seems like CJP was trying to match that smaller lineup instead of taking advantage of it. Anyway, besides losing the advantage on the offensive end, it allowed easy baskets on the defensive end. With the new way fouls are called, it is harder for the guards to stop a drive to the basket by a quick, skilled guard without being called for a touch foul. With the way #2 was hitting from the outside, Shaq had to go out with him. With Austin on the bench, that left no one inside to defend the basket when the guards got beat off the dribble. The result was a one point deficit turned into a quick seven point deficit and made it much more difficult for us to win the game. It was a critical coaching mistake.

By the way, I am far from a basher of Coach Pastner. I love the fact that he seems to be running a clean program, graduating players and having a positive effect on them developing and growing as young men off the court. Even though he can be a bit goofy at times, I find his positive energy refreshing and from many who have inside access to the program, he still seems to have the players attention and respect. He is tougher than many on here want to claim. His biggest problem lies in his youth and inexperience. He has made, and continues to make, a bunch of coaching mistakes. However, he has improved every year and his improvement seems to be coming at an escalating pace the farther we get from his initial hire. While it can be painful and frustrating at times right now, I have faith in him long term. Go Tigers!

(01-17-2014 09:20 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  I've been trying to find a play by play that has substitution patterns in it so I can confirm exactly when and how long we ran our "four guard lineup" last night. I watched the game closely and I didn't remember any large stretches where we ran 4 guards.

From the stats, Nichols, Shaq and Pellom played 77 of the 80 combined minutes at the 4 and 5.

Iverson and King both played 1 minute each, but I can't tell who they were subbed for (the 3 or the 4) I watched the game and at no time did either play the 5, so we can't say that during their time on the court we were running a 4 guard lineup.

So at most, we ran JJ, Dixon, Crawford, Geron and a big man for 1 minute of last nights game.

So those who are blaming the loss on the 4 guard lineup, are you sure that you want this to be the banner that you're waving?

Someone please correct me if my numbers are bad.

My concern is THERE ARE AT LEAST 3 GUARDS on the floor at ALL TIMES. This is an automatic mismatch which we create and good teams with decent coaches exploit easily.

Every year during Josh’s tenure he has only briefly fielded a team with a true 1-2-3-4-5. Last season we started out with Tarik (5) Ferro(4) Adonis(3) Chris(2) and Joe(1). We ended up with Tarik or Shaq being the only true big on the floor and added DJ, Adonis, Geron/Chris/Antonio/ Joe. Other than our lone big everyone else was 6-5 or under. Ferro (who initially started) didn’t see any minutes against Saint Mary’s or Michigan St. Neither did Stan.

A few fans said they hoped we’d play Tarik & Kansas in March. Really? Kansas often plays Embiid, Tarik, and Wiggins at the 3 spot. With our 3 guard lineup Wiggins would have a career game and there is no such thing as “It’s only one loss”. IIRC at the Dance it’s win or go home.

Since this is a mini rant I’ll say this. I think Josh planned on using the 3 guard system long before the season started. I posted so after Dix was cleared. I also think Josh had no plans what-so-ever to use a true SF/3 and this is why King & Iverson rarely see the live court. Why develop them if you don’t plan on using them?

I thought it was merely a learning curve but this appears to be a pattern with all of Josh’s teams. We ALWAYS have players playing out of position. We’ve had top 5 recruiting classes during Josh’s era but we cannot field a team with legit players at all 5 positions?

I’ve been patient with Josh and I thought he would be the best coach we ever had. But after his statements after the Cinncy game I’m having second thoughts.

It is not the four guard offense, it is the four guards!!!

(01-18-2014 03:06 PM)rws71 Wrote:  It is not the four guard offense, it is the four guards!!!

Wrong........

Which one of the guards was defending Kromah....the 6'6 wing was 5-5....

(01-18-2014 11:42 AM)450bench Wrote:  It's a message board. It's designed for comments and opinions I'm sure. Personally, next year is really going to be interesting. And you think some of us are freaking out now...

Some people can't be helped. If you're "freaking out" about our team this season, you need to be committed. Learn to relax.

(01-20-2014 08:22 PM)Dat.B.Me Wrote:  Which one of the guards was defending Kromah....the 6'6 wing was 5-5....

Geron and Chris.

(01-18-2014 12:14 PM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  

(01-17-2014 09:20 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  I've been trying to find a play by play that has substitution patterns in it so I can confirm exactly when and how long we ran our "four guard lineup" last night. I watched the game closely and I didn't remember any large stretches where we ran 4 guards.

From the stats, Nichols, Shaq and Pellom played 77 of the 80 combined minutes at the 4 and 5.

Iverson and King both played 1 minute each, but I can't tell who they were subbed for (the 3 or the 4) I watched the game and at no time did either play the 5, so we can't say that during their time on the court we were running a 4 guard lineup.

So at most, we ran JJ, Dixon, Crawford, Geron and a big man for 1 minute of last nights game.

So those who are blaming the loss on the 4 guard lineup, are you sure that you want this to be the banner that you're waving?

Someone please correct me if my numbers are bad.

My concern is THERE ARE AT LEAST 3 GUARDS on the floor at ALL TIMES. This is an automatic mismatch which we create and good teams with decent coaches exploit easily.

Every year during Josh’s tenure he has only briefly fielded a team with a true 1-2-3-4-5. Last season we started out with Tarik (5) Ferro(4) Adonis(3) Chris(2) and Joe(1). We ended up with Tarik or Shaq being the only true big on the floor and added DJ, Adonis, Geron/Chris/Antonio/ Joe. Other than our lone big everyone else was 6-5 or under. Ferro (who initially started) didn’t see any minutes against Saint Mary’s or Michigan St. Neither did Stan.

A few fans said they hoped we’d play Tarik & Kansas in March. Really? Kansas often plays Embiid, Tarik, and Wiggins at the 3 spot. With our 3 guard lineup Wiggins would have a career game and there is no such thing as “It’s only one loss”. IIRC at the Dance it’s win or go home.

Since this is a mini rant I’ll say this. I think Josh planned on using the 3 guard system long before the season started. I posted so after Dix was cleared. I also think Josh had no plans what-so-ever to use a true SF/3 and this is why King & Iverson rarely see the live court. Why develop them if you don’t plan on using them?

I thought it was merely a learning curve but this appears to be a pattern with all of Josh’s teams. We ALWAYS have players playing out of position. We’ve had top 5 recruiting classes during Josh’s era but we cannot field a team with legit players at all 5 positions?

I’ve been patient with Josh and I thought he would be the best coach we ever had. But after his statements after the Cinncy game I’m having second thoughts.

Wiggins is a 2/3, you're surprised that Self plays him at the 3?

The rest of this is just world-class whining, Beale St. Perhaps write the coach a letter and let him know you don't approve of his rotation. At least you'd be doing something constructive.

I'll call a spade a spade and I'll call Pastner on his mistakes, but the incessant, impotent moping on this board lately is unreal.

(01-20-2014 08:44 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(01-18-2014 12:14 PM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  

(01-17-2014 09:20 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  I've been trying to find a play by play that has substitution patterns in it so I can confirm exactly when and how long we ran our "four guard lineup" last night. I watched the game closely and I didn't remember any large stretches where we ran 4 guards.

From the stats, Nichols, Shaq and Pellom played 77 of the 80 combined minutes at the 4 and 5.

Iverson and King both played 1 minute each, but I can't tell who they were subbed for (the 3 or the 4) I watched the game and at no time did either play the 5, so we can't say that during their time on the court we were running a 4 guard lineup.

So at most, we ran JJ, Dixon, Crawford, Geron and a big man for 1 minute of last nights game.

So those who are blaming the loss on the 4 guard lineup, are you sure that you want this to be the banner that you're waving?

Someone please correct me if my numbers are bad.

My concern is THERE ARE AT LEAST 3 GUARDS on the floor at ALL TIMES. This is an automatic mismatch which we create and good teams with decent coaches exploit easily.

Every year during Josh’s tenure he has only briefly fielded a team with a true 1-2-3-4-5. Last season we started out with Tarik (5) Ferro(4) Adonis(3) Chris(2) and Joe(1). We ended up with Tarik or Shaq being the only true big on the floor and added DJ, Adonis, Geron/Chris/Antonio/ Joe. Other than our lone big everyone else was 6-5 or under. Ferro (who initially started) didn’t see any minutes against Saint Mary’s or Michigan St. Neither did Stan.

A few fans said they hoped we’d play Tarik & Kansas in March. Really? Kansas often plays Embiid, Tarik, and Wiggins at the 3 spot. With our 3 guard lineup Wiggins would have a career game and there is no such thing as “It’s only one loss”. IIRC at the Dance it’s win or go home.

Since this is a mini rant I’ll say this. I think Josh planned on using the 3 guard system long before the season started. I posted so after Dix was cleared. I also think Josh had no plans what-so-ever to use a true SF/3 and this is why King & Iverson rarely see the live court. Why develop them if you don’t plan on using them?

I thought it was merely a learning curve but this appears to be a pattern with all of Josh’s teams. We ALWAYS have players playing out of position. We’ve had top 5 recruiting classes during Josh’s era but we cannot field a team with legit players at all 5 positions?

I’ve been patient with Josh and I thought he would be the best coach we ever had. But after his statements after the Cinncy game I’m having second thoughts.

Wiggins is a 2/3, you're surprised that Self plays him at the 3?

The rest of this is just world-class whining, Beale St. Perhaps write the coach a letter and let him know you don't approve of his rotation. At least you'd be doing something constructive.

I'll call a spade a spade and I'll call Pastner on his mistakes, but the incessant, impotent moping on this board lately is unreal.

After what Josh said after the UCONN game I have lost confidence in his judgment. To me it amounted to the four senior guards or suck it.

If you’re cool with it then that’s your business. That pi$$ed me off and I’m not the only one. I thought he had guts but he’s playing safe. Not good.

(01-20-2014 09:05 PM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  After what Josh said after the UCONN game I have lost confidence in his judgment. To me it amounted to the four senior guards or suck it.

If you’re cool with it then that’s your business. That pi$$ed me off and I’m not the only one. I thought he had guts but he’s playing safe. Not good.

Well, try to enjoy the rest of the season, champ. This is the best team we've had in a while, and we're beating good teams. Two home losses sting, but this team was playing like a top 10 team between the OSU win and the Cincy loss, so they can do it again.

Just remember that you have nothing personally invested in this team, that we play in a real conference now and that losses will come. If you're upset with the coach, perhaps that will be addressed after the season.

(01-20-2014 09:13 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 09:05 PM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  After what Josh said after the UCONN game I have lost confidence in his judgment. To me it amounted to the four senior guards or suck it.

If you’re cool with it then that’s your business. That pi$$ed me off and I’m not the only one. I thought he had guts but he’s playing safe. Not good.

Well, try to enjoy the rest of the season, champ. This is the best team we've had in a while, and we're beating good teams. Two home losses sting, but this team was playing like a top 10 team between the OSU win and the Cincy loss, so they can do it again.

Just remember that you have nothing personally invested in this team, that we play in a real conference now and that losses will come. If you're upset with the coach, perhaps that will be addressed after the season.

I will be at most of the games here and the others I’ll catch on TV. While this is the best team in this era I see many teams getting better & better but I don’t see much progress yet with our program.

As for coaches they come and they go. Such is life.

(01-20-2014 10:22 PM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 09:13 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 09:05 PM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  After what Josh said after the UCONN game I have lost confidence in his judgment. To me it amounted to the four senior guards or suck it.

If you’re cool with it then that’s your business. That pi$$ed me off and I’m not the only one. I thought he had guts but he’s playing safe. Not good.

Well, try to enjoy the rest of the season, champ. This is the best team we've had in a while, and we're beating good teams. Two home losses sting, but this team was playing like a top 10 team between the OSU win and the Cincy loss, so they can do it again.

Just remember that you have nothing personally invested in this team, that we play in a real conference now and that losses will come. If you're upset with the coach, perhaps that will be addressed after the season.

I will be at most of the games here and the others I’ll catch on TV. While this is the best team in this era I see many teams getting better & better but I don’t see much progress yet with our program.

As for coaches they come and they go. Such is life.

This team should be judged in April I think, not in January.

(01-20-2014 08:38 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(01-18-2014 11:42 AM)450bench Wrote:  It's a message board. It's designed for comments and opinions I'm sure. Personally, next year is really going to be interesting. And you think some of us are freaking out now...

Some people can't be helped. If you're "freaking out" about our team this season, you need to be committed. Learn to relax.

Agreed. But some are freaking.

(01-20-2014 10:26 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 10:22 PM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 09:13 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 09:05 PM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  After what Josh said after the UCONN game I have lost confidence in his judgment. To me it amounted to the four senior guards or suck it.

If you’re cool with it then that’s your business. That pi$$ed me off and I’m not the only one. I thought he had guts but he’s playing safe. Not good.

Well, try to enjoy the rest of the season, champ. This is the best team we've had in a while, and we're beating good teams. Two home losses sting, but this team was playing like a top 10 team between the OSU win and the Cincy loss, so they can do it again.

Just remember that you have nothing personally invested in this team, that we play in a real conference now and that losses will come. If you're upset with the coach, perhaps that will be addressed after the season.

I will be at most of the games here and the others I’ll catch on TV. While this is the best team in this era I see many teams getting better & better but I don’t see much progress yet with our program.

As for coaches they come and they go. Such is life.

This team should be judged in April I think, not in January.

Very true.

(01-21-2014 12:47 AM)DicksHatBand Wrote:  

(01-20-2014 10:26 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  This team should be judged in April I think, not in January.

Very true.

April is when the entire season is judged.

From January on in conference play is when coaches start fine-tuning their teams and go with what has worked well previously. Rotations, go-to-plays, defense strategies (ect), are usually settled by this time in the season.

It’s January 21st. Other than teams peaking or fizzling out (or injuries), what you see now is usually close to what you’ll get in March.

BTW the coaches & writers judge teams every week.