(01-17-2014 12:47 PM)At Ease Wrote:  Outside of Mike Harris, I haven't seen anything from our Texas players to suggest we need to recruit more of them.

That's a bit like saying that you have looked at the Cleveland Browns roster history and decided that drafting a Quarterback who played college football in the United States is a guarantee for failure.

My take on Houston HS basketball is as follows

1. It has big numbers on the right hand side of the bell curve of talent. Just in the classes of 2012-2014, we have as 5 stars the Harrison twins, Rasheed Sulaimon, Daniel House, Cameron Ridley, and Justice Winslow.

2. There is a big n. Houston opens 1-2 new 5A high schools very year.

3. With a big population whose right hand side is far to the right, there are a lot of very good (but not extraordinary) players.

4. Also given the big population, I expect a meaningful number with sufficient aptitude and interest to pursue Rice academics.

(01-17-2014 12:47 PM)At Ease Wrote:  

(01-17-2014 11:02 AM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(01-17-2014 10:55 AM)MemOwl Wrote:  ...an extremely prolific local talent pool...

Which Braun seems to either be 1) totally unaware of or 2) incapable of recruiting.

The current roster has exactly one player that went to high school in Texas and he was an emergency walk-on after the mass exodus.

Braun's unwillingness/inability to recruit locally should be enough to send him on his way.

Outside of Mike Harris, I haven't seen anything from our Texas players to suggest we need to recruit more of them.

That's a little chicken and egg. You named one very good one. Until you recruit a few more, how do you it wouldn't be a good thing?

If nothing else, having some local ties might bring a few more fans into the building. How could we do worse with a few local kids than we are currently doing with kids from the far ends of the country and across the Atlantic?

I'm not picking on any particular player or players currently the roster, but replacing a couple with some with local ties has obvious upside benefits. Heck, we don't even have a player from a neighboring state (aka Bobby Tudor, the pride of Pineville, LA!).

Hatfield did not embarrass the university like Braun did with Marcos.

(01-17-2014 02:29 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  

(01-17-2014 12:42 PM)Orange County Owl Wrote:  

(01-17-2014 12:21 PM)texowl2 Wrote:  

(01-17-2014 11:41 AM)Orange County Owl Wrote:  Personal opinion:

Unlike some others, I think Braun does a pretty reasonable job of getting the most out of the talent on his roster.

However, other than the Morcos era, we've seen no evidence that he can recruit to the level needed to compete in our current environment - let alone if we desire upward conference mobility. The talent level just seems so far away from the Harris/McKreith/Gillespie/Almond era. And, the gap is widening - SMU has a legitimate chance to make the tournament this season.

It's probably time. This kind of feels like the last year of Hatfield to me.

except Ken had some pretty decent teams...... and no mess

Fair point - although if you wanted to expand the definition a bit, Braun has had some decent teams in other places.

While Hatfield had a Hall of Fame caliber career in other places (SWC Coach of the decade in the 1980's, national coach of the year, etc.)

still not comparable coaches

(01-17-2014 03:01 PM)75src Wrote:  Hatfield did not embarrass the university like Braun did with Marcos.

While Braun is also at fault for hiring Morcos, IMO, the lion share of the blame goes to Slick Rick.

Let me clarify on the Hatfield/Braun comparison ... not trying to compare the overall tenure(s).

Just saying that this year with Braun kind of feels like 2005 with KH ... that a change is inevitable.

(01-17-2014 02:30 PM)MemOwl Wrote:  That's a bit like saying that you have looked at the Cleveland Browns roster history and decided that drafting a Quarterback who played college football in the United States is a guarantee for failure.

As a Browns fan, this made me laugh. Then it made me cry.

(01-17-2014 03:00 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  That's a little chicken and egg. You named one very good one. Until you recruit a few more, how do you it wouldn't be a good thing?

If nothing else, having some local ties might bring a few more fans into the building. How could we do worse with a few local kids than we are currently doing with kids from the far ends of the country and across the Atlantic?

We have recruited a few of them over the last 10 years. Most of them were serviceable D1 players at best.

We could do worse by prioritizing geography and 5-10 family/friends per game added attendance over recruiting best available.

(01-17-2014 11:41 AM)Orange County Owl Wrote:  However, other than the Morcos era, we've seen no evidence that he can recruit to the level needed to compete in our current environment - let alone if we desire upward conference mobility. The talent level just seems so far away from the Harris/McKreith/Gillespie/Almond era.

The apparent consensus on this board has been:

1. Braun is an excellent recruiter
2. The extraordinarily high attrition was not a problem before 2012 because those players weren't any good

But there has never been any attempt to reconcile this contradiction.

(01-17-2014 04:15 PM)At Ease Wrote:  

(01-17-2014 03:00 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  That's a little chicken and egg. You named one very good one. Until you recruit a few more, how do you it wouldn't be a good thing?

If nothing else, having some local ties might bring a few more fans into the building. How could we do worse with a few local kids than we are currently doing with kids from the far ends of the country and across the Atlantic?

We have recruited a few of them over the last 10 years. Most of them were serviceable D1 players at best.

We could do worse by prioritizing geography and 5-10 family/friends per game added attendance over recruiting best available.

I refuse to believe there aren't at least a couple of men's basketball players from Houston or at least Texas that Braun couldn't have recruited that are at least equivalent to or better than at least the 2nd half of his current bench.

And sadly enough 5-10 new fans per player would not be lost in the roundoff of our current crowds.

(01-17-2014 02:04 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(01-16-2014 10:07 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(01-16-2014 09:50 PM)That Guy 2012 Wrote:  

(01-16-2014 09:44 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  With 4 minutes to play, Rice 2-6 from the line. USM 18-24. That's pretty much the difference in the score. Reflects are lack of will to take it to he hole.

Horseshit.

Represents being out-athleted in the post. We drive the ball and give it away because our better opponents have the size to not need to attack our drivers.

Look. your welcome to your opinion as am I. But if you are going to result to profanity, go join your favorite ESU board.

I think the last thing we need to do now is eat our own over the nuances why the mens' basketball program is a train wreck being cleaned up with teaspoons whilst the pileup continues when we all seem to universally recognize that it is a disaster that has no end in sight.

to wit, invoking Gerlach's law (corollary to Godwin's law, where all threads about troubled programs inevitably devolve to the point of invoking Ken Hatfield within about 60 posts), is probably not a good idea...

(01-17-2014 11:41 AM)Orange County Owl Wrote:  It's probably time. This kind of feels like the last year of Hatfield to me.

edit: and I will note, that I never felt as badly about our football program - even during the Berndt years - as I do now about basketball...

agree 100% with that. We have regressed to the Bob Polk era.....

(01-17-2014 03:03 PM)Antarius Wrote:  While Braun is also at fault for hiring Morcos, IMO, the lion share of the blame goes to Slick Rick.

Let's premise that CDC had never left and RG had never been hired. Please elaborate on your statement and give a little more detail as to how the last few years would have been better in MBB.

CDC hired Braun, and Morcos was on Braun's very first staff.

(01-17-2014 05:42 PM)MemOwl Wrote:  

(01-17-2014 03:03 PM)Antarius Wrote:  While Braun is also at fault for hiring Morcos, IMO, the lion share of the blame goes to Slick Rick.

Let's premise that CDC had never left and RG had never been hired. Please elaborate on your statement and give a little more detail as to how the last few years would have been better in MBB.

CDC hired Braun, and Morcos was on Braun's very first staff.

I think he is assuming that the mass exodus wouldn't have happened if not for the alleged comments.

There is no real indication that Braun recruits well on his own. It seems a bit of a stretch to lay all the transfers on Greenspan. Things are not getting better.

(01-17-2014 05:42 PM)MemOwl Wrote:  

(01-17-2014 03:03 PM)Antarius Wrote:  While Braun is also at fault for hiring Morcos, IMO, the lion share of the blame goes to Slick Rick.

Let's premise that CDC had never left and RG had never been hired. Please elaborate on your statement and give a little more detail as to how the last few years would have been better in MBB.

CDC hired Braun, and Morcos was on Braun's very first staff.

I think he is assuming that the mass exodus wouldn't have happened if not for the alleged comments.
[/quote]

(01-17-2014 11:26 AM)texowl2 Wrote:  This year reminds of the last year of Tommy Suitts (not WW's last year which was a mess for all kinds of reason-lame duckness, injuries, the wandering in the wilderness), where things just faded away.

Well so far he hasn't turned a game over to his assistants like Suitts did.

(01-17-2014 12:02 PM)75src Wrote:  My opinion is that the Greenspan remarks were made up by Marcos and the players as an excuse for them to go somewhere else where they would be more visible. I think Greenspan would have been forced out immediately if it was clear he made the remarks instead of waiting several months. Greenspan got blamed because he was seen as being stupid enough to make those remarks.

We should have never hired Greenspan, Braun or Marcos.

(01-17-2014 10:55 AM)MemOwl Wrote:  I'm not an RG defender, and the coverage of the allegations was not a positive for Rice.

But I think there is an urgent need for clarity about MBB. Ben Braun has failed at close to historic levels despite a brand new facility, an extremely prolific local talent pool, and a manageable degree of difficulty on the conference slate.

I have a hard time seeing Greenspan as anything but a bit player in the events leading to where we are today.

Then I guess you don't believe Greenspan tried to pick a fight with a football player or had issues with other players and staff.

(01-17-2014 10:48 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  

(01-17-2014 12:02 PM)75src Wrote:  My opinion is that the Greenspan remarks were made up by Marcos and the players as an excuse for them to go somewhere else where they would be more visible. I think Greenspan would have been forced out immediately if it was clear he made the remarks instead of waiting several months. Greenspan got blamed because he was seen as being stupid enough to make those remarks.
We should have never hired Greenspan, Braun or Marcos.

(01-17-2014 10:55 AM)MemOwl Wrote:  I'm not an RG defender, and the coverage of the allegations was not a positive for Rice.
But I think there is an urgent need for clarity about MBB. Ben Braun has failed at close to historic levels despite a brand new facility, an extremely prolific local talent pool, and a manageable degree of difficulty on the conference slate.
I have a hard time seeing Greenspan as anything but a bit player in the events leading to where we are today.

Then I guess you don't believe Greenspan tried to pick a fight with a football player or had issues with other players and staff.

Greenspan's mistakes are not heresay or rumors, they are well documented. He said it, they heard it, and that was far from all. To be clear, that was pretty much it for this episode, but that was not an isolated incident.

There are a lot more that hopefully will never see the light of day. What has gotten out is the tip of the iceberg. And a lot of what is not generally known is maybe even worse than this. Greenspan was a walking EEOC disaster.

Since I am hearing it from so many members of the board, there must have been several times that Greenspan should have been forced out immediately for cause. My question is why the administration continue to keep him on when he should have been shown the door immediately. Most organizations know that EEOC disasters need to be removed immediately.

Greenspan must have really been stupid to try to pick a fight with a football player. If the player had taken it up, Greenspan would have lost the fight.

(01-17-2014 11:01 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-17-2014 10:48 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  

(01-17-2014 12:02 PM)75src Wrote:  My opinion is that the Greenspan remarks were made up by Marcos and the players as an excuse for them to go somewhere else where they would be more visible. I think Greenspan would have been forced out immediately if it was clear he made the remarks instead of waiting several months. Greenspan got blamed because he was seen as being stupid enough to make those remarks.
We should have never hired Greenspan, Braun or Marcos.

(01-17-2014 10:55 AM)MemOwl Wrote:  I'm not an RG defender, and the coverage of the allegations was not a positive for Rice.
But I think there is an urgent need for clarity about MBB. Ben Braun has failed at close to historic levels despite a brand new facility, an extremely prolific local talent pool, and a manageable degree of difficulty on the conference slate.
I have a hard time seeing Greenspan as anything but a bit player in the events leading to where we are today.

Then I guess you don't believe Greenspan tried to pick a fight with a football player or had issues with other players and staff.

Greenspan's mistakes are not heresay or rumors, they are well documented. He said it, they heard it, and that was far from all. To be clear, that was pretty much it for this episode, but that was not an isolated incident.

There are a lot more that hopefully will never see the light of day. What has gotten out is the tip of the iceberg. And a lot of what is not generally known is maybe even worse than this. Greenspan was a walking EEOC disaster.

(01-18-2014 06:36 PM)75src Wrote:  Since I am hearing it from so many members of the board, there must have been several times that Greenspan should have been forced out immediately for cause. My question is why the administration continue to keep him on when he should have been shown the door immediately. Most organizations know that EEOC disasters need to be removed immediately.

Firing him would be admitting wrongdoing and potentially opening the door to all sorts of issues. This way, Rice likely pushed him out quietly (although the 'Ding Dong' thread didn't die for several weeks here).

I find it frustrating to be in this parallel universe where there is no accountability.

I complain about MBB and ask for a change. The reply is that Braun is not accountable because Greenspan poisoned the well.

It is crazy to ask that Leebron be held accountable for hiring Greenspan?

(01-18-2014 07:33 PM)MemOwl Wrote:  I complain about MBB and ask for a change. The reply is that Braun is not accountable because Greenspan poisoned the well.

Not sure if this is partially directed at the comment I made earlier. To clarify, my view is that Braun is not heavily responsible for the transfer incident. At the same time, he is responsible for the rest of the issues that have plagued the program under his watch from 0 seasons with a 0.500 record against Division 1 opponents to the baffling coaching decisions that I feel have lost us several games.

I am all for accountability. There is just a long list of things directly attributable to Braun that I think we should start with before getting to the Greenspan/Morcos fiasco of 2013.