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WBB: Toledo at Buffalo game thread
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T-Town Offline
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Post: #121
RE: WBB: Toledo at Buffalo game thread
(01-16-2014 09:14 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  Then we are in REAL trouble. In the last three years one freshman has contributed anything resembling meaningful minutes.

Good observation which fully explains exactly why this is a full blown rebuilding year.

(01-16-2014 09:14 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  I suspect we'll see more of the newbs in games in the friendly confines and less on the road. This is going to be a pretty good class but the inconsistencies preclude getting important minutes in key games.

I agree. I suspect that playing time will be earned on a game by game basis based on performance in practice and also determined by optimum match ups for each individual game as well as by needs arising from injury situations.
01-16-2014 10:53 AM
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NewMex RocketFan Offline
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Post: #122
RE: WBB: Toledo at Buffalo game thread
(01-15-2014 08:56 PM)northcoastRocket Wrote:  
(01-15-2014 08:52 PM)NewMex RocketFan Wrote:  Pathetic! Bulls get their first win in the MAC. Finishing third in the MAC West will be a challenge unless this team develops. Too many weak links.

Just depends. Miami is beating Akron with a couple seconds left, so that win looks better. And CMU had a heck of a tussle with NIU, so the NIU win doesn't look as bad either.

Agree we should have beaten UB badly, but this continues to be a work in progress.

A work in process which has a strong tendency to regress. I am not seeing improvement from game to game nor consistency in play. It could be too much is being asked of freshmen due to a pile of injuries. Maybe this is the price of success in the long term as in next year.
(This post was last modified: 01-16-2014 11:24 AM by NewMex RocketFan.)
01-16-2014 11:19 AM
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NewMex RocketFan Offline
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Post: #123
RE: WBB: Toledo at Buffalo game thread
(01-15-2014 11:08 PM)falconplucker Wrote:  Pathetic????? Unbelievable loss?? I think some people forgot that Toledo graduated 5 seniors, and is waiting on a class of 6 freshman to replenish an ultra thin bench. To call their effort pathetic is very short sighted.

This effort was pathetic given what they did in just the last game. Too many players lost focus, took an array of ugly shots that I haven't seen before. They looked out of sorts on the offensive end for the vast majority of the game. Yes five seniors graduated but this team has two All MAC players and others with extensive playing time. The defense was good for the most part but the shooting was horrific and, yes, even pathetic.
01-16-2014 11:24 AM
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NewMex RocketFan Offline
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Post: #124
RE: WBB: Toledo at Buffalo game thread
(01-16-2014 08:19 AM)cnyrocketfan Wrote:  
(01-16-2014 08:02 AM)zrb2 Wrote:  The most impressive thing about this game is that you all have an 11 page thread about the game. I give you props for that!

Thanks. We care about our women's team as well as the men's squad.

Congratulations on the win last night.

+1
01-16-2014 11:30 AM
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NewMex RocketFan Offline
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Post: #125
RE: WBB: Toledo at Buffalo game thread
(01-16-2014 10:49 AM)zrb2 Wrote:  
(01-16-2014 08:19 AM)cnyrocketfan Wrote:  
(01-16-2014 08:02 AM)zrb2 Wrote:  The most impressive thing about this game is that you all have an 11 page thread about the game. I give you props for that!

Thanks. We care about our women's team as well as the men's squad.

Congratulations on the win last night.

That's cool. Not much talk about womens hoops on the Bulls board. I don't know much about WBB at UB but i do know they are under some pressure to start winning (not just competing). The "new" coach is not so new anymore and the AD wants results, now. Losing their first 3 in the MAC was not acceptable even though they played a couple really good teams. That being said, I don't think Toledo losing was pathetic in any way. UB really wanted that game, badly and needed it.

Take a look at the Rockets home games and you will see 4,000 + or - fans in the stands. The community and student body really supports this team. In fact, when the Rockets travel to EMU, the Toledo fans outnumber the Eagle boosters. Coach Cullop has done an amazing job propelling the women's basketball program to the top of the MAC.
01-16-2014 11:35 AM
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northrocket43 Offline
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Post: #126
RE: WBB: Toledo at Buffalo game thread
(01-16-2014 10:53 AM)T-Town Wrote:  
(01-16-2014 09:14 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  Then we are in REAL trouble. In the last three years one freshman has contributed anything resembling meaningful minutes.

Good observation which fully explains exactly why this is a full blown rebuilding year.

(01-16-2014 09:14 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  I suspect we'll see more of the newbs in games in the friendly confines and less on the road. This is going to be a pretty good class but the inconsistencies preclude getting important minutes in key games.

I agree. I suspect that playing time will be earned on a game by game basis based on performance in practice and also determined by optimum match ups for each individual game as well as by needs arising from injury situations.

My point which my rocket friend seems to ignore is that in the Buffalo game things went south rather quickly. Started up 12-2 and then it was downhill. As I recall we went 10 minutes without a field goal at some point in the game. Dola and Crunch did not score in the first half. Dola played 40 minutes, was 3/13 shooting, 0/4 from 3 point range and had 2 assists but 6 turnovers. Inma played 38 minutes. She was a monster on the boards (16 rebounds/12 offensive) but was 4/19 shooting. Janelle was better at 5/13 shooting but with 2 assists and 5 turnovers. And she had a couple of crucial turnovers late. Team shooting at 26% was the worst of the year so far.

Given all that the only player who got off the bench in the second half was Sophie, driven by Crunch's foul trouble. So its not like the players who got the minutes in the second half were getting it done. Are our freshmen of such limited effectiveness that they couldn't have contributed? I mean we lost the game anyway. We had points and possession advantage at the end and still lost with our experienced players on the floor.
01-16-2014 11:37 AM
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H2Oville Rocket Offline
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Post: #127
RE: WBB: Toledo at Buffalo game thread
(01-16-2014 11:37 AM)northrocket43 Wrote:  
(01-16-2014 10:53 AM)T-Town Wrote:  
(01-16-2014 09:14 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  Then we are in REAL trouble. In the last three years one freshman has contributed anything resembling meaningful minutes.

Good observation which fully explains exactly why this is a full blown rebuilding year.

(01-16-2014 09:14 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  I suspect we'll see more of the newbs in games in the friendly confines and less on the road. This is going to be a pretty good class but the inconsistencies preclude getting important minutes in key games.

I agree. I suspect that playing time will be earned on a game by game basis based on performance in practice and also determined by optimum match ups for each
individual game as well as by needs arising from injury situations.

My point which my rocket friend seems to ignore is that in the Buffalo game things went south rather quickly. Started up 12-2 and then it was downhill. As I recall we went 10 minutes without a field goal at some point in the game. Dola and Crunch did not score in the first half. Dola played 40 minutes, was 3/13 shooting, 0/4 from 3 point range and had 2 assists but 6 turnovers. Inma played 38 minutes. She was a monster on the boards (16 rebounds/12 offensive) but was 4/19 shooting. Janelle was better at
5/13 shooting but with 2 assists and 5 turnovers. And she had a couple of crucial turnovers late. Team shooting at 26% was the worst of the year so far.

Given all that the only player who got off the bench in the second half was Sophie,
driven by Crunch's foul trouble. So its not like the players who got the minutes in the second half were getting it done. Are our freshmen of such limited effectiveness that they couldn't have contributed? I mean we lost the game anyway. We had points and possession advantage at the end and still lost with our experienced players on the floor.

Coaches play their best players more during conference games. When they aren't effective they still play them more. Why? Because they are their best players. They've proven it. Build your frosh in practice and non- conference games. If they earn minutes, fine. Inma did and she played a lot as a freshman. Maybe some of these players will. But no coach is going to sit Inma or Dola because they're 0-8. They play through it because they have in the past. Not ignoring your point, but apparently I'm
not articulating my response well enough. Sophie seems to be coming on, Janice and Elena (both of whom may be feeling the effects of extended international play on their still developing bodies) seem to be going the other way. No one else in the frosh class was getting a lot of minutes anyway. When we have big leads at home you'll see more bench minutes, on the road or in close games Inma can scoot around the court on her butt and she'll still play 32-34 minutes.
[/quote]
(This post was last modified: 01-16-2014 12:01 PM by H2Oville Rocket.)
01-16-2014 11:59 AM
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northrocket43 Offline
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Post: #128
RE: WBB: Toledo at Buffalo game thread
(01-16-2014 11:59 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  
(01-16-2014 11:37 AM)northrocket43 Wrote:  
(01-16-2014 10:53 AM)T-Town Wrote:  
(01-16-2014 09:14 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  Then we are in REAL trouble. In the last three years one freshman has contributed anything resembling meaningful minutes.

Good observation which fully explains exactly why this is a full blown rebuilding year.

(01-16-2014 09:14 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  I suspect we'll see more of the newbs in games in the friendly confines and less on the road. This is going to be a pretty good class but the inconsistencies preclude getting important minutes in key games.

I agree. I suspect that playing time will be earned on a game by game basis based on performance in practice and also determined by optimum match ups for each
individual game as well as by needs arising from injury situations.

My point which my rocket friend seems to ignore is that in the Buffalo game things went south rather quickly. Started up 12-2 and then it was downhill. As I recall we went 10 minutes without a field goal at some point in the game. Dola and Crunch did not score in the first half. Dola played 40 minutes, was 3/13 shooting, 0/4 from 3 point range and had 2 assists but 6 turnovers. Inma played 38 minutes. She was a monster on the boards (16 rebounds/12 offensive) but was 4/19 shooting. Janelle was better at
5/13 shooting but with 2 assists and 5 turnovers. And she had a couple of crucial turnovers late. Team shooting at 26% was the worst of the year so far.

Given all that the only player who got off the bench in the second half was Sophie,
driven by Crunch's foul trouble. So its not like the players who got the minutes in the second half were getting it done. Are our freshmen of such limited effectiveness that they couldn't have contributed? I mean we lost the game anyway. We had points and possession advantage at the end and still lost with our experienced players on the floor.

Coaches play their best players more during conference games. When they aren't effective they still play them more. Why? Because they are their best players. They've proven it. Build your frosh in practice and non- conference games. If they earn minutes, fine. Inma did and she played a lot as a freshman. Maybe some of these players will. But no coach is going to sit Inma or Dola because they're 0-8. They play through it because they have in the past. Not ignoring your point, but apparently I'm
not articulating my response well enough. Sophie seems to be coming on, Janice and Elena (both of whom may be feeling the effects of extended international play on their still developing bodies) seem to be going the other way. No one else in the frosh class was getting a lot of minutes anyway. When we have big leads at home you'll see more bench minutes, on the road or in close games Inma can scoot around the court on her butt and she'll still play 32-34 minutes.
[/quote]

I agree with much of your latest post. It is difficult to sit your star players even when they are missing everything. But Dola played 40 minutes! I would propose that she might have been more effective with at least a couple of short rest periods. Ditto for Inma who played 38 minutes.

I posted earlier that I thought that Sophie has been making the most progress and could develop to be the most effective player from the 2013 recruiting class. For me Janice was playing out of control early on with off balanced wild shots and with an ugly assist/turnover ratio. But I have seen improvement with her. She seems to be playing a more calm game, not trying to do too much. And until yesterday her minutes seemed to be growing. I agree that Elena has been more slow to progress. Not sure how much is due to lost practice and early games or the burden of carrying that club around with her. But others on the blog think that she is the savior for our 3 point shooting problems. Coach Cullop said after the previous game (when she was 0 for 7) that she has been shooting lights out all week. Not evident in games as yet.

One final observation then I will get off this topic. Early on Coach Cullop offered on two occasions that our poor 3 point shooting was constrained by the absence of our two best shooters (De Alredo and Baker). So coach was positioning them has valuable outside threats. Others have posted that Elena is a "devastating" outside shooter. Baker finally returned to action and played 19 minutes against Valpo (I think going 3/10 shooting, mostly from three point range). The next four games, before her head injury she got a total of 8 minutes and had 1 shot (missed). This is all the while that our team 3 point shooting percent continued to sink to lowest in the league. So it seems to me that coach is undecided on what to do personnel wise. There certainly seem to be mixed messages during her interviews.
01-16-2014 12:26 PM
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