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North Carolina and others and illiterates
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North Carolina and others and illiterates
http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/07/us/ncaa-at...?hpt-tp_tl

CNN talked to the academic advisor at UNC who the NCAA didn't talk to. Did some open records request around the country and came up with some interesting info.

"A CNN investigation found public universities across the country where many students in the basketball and football programs could read only up to an eighth-grade level. The data obtained through open records requests also showed a staggering achievement gap between college athletes and their peers at the same institution.

This is not an exhaustive survey of all universities with major sports programs; CNN chose a sampling of public universities where open records laws apply. We sought data from a total of 37 institutions, of which 21 schools responded. The others denied our request for entrance exam or aptitude test scores, some saying the information did not exist and others citing privacy rules. Some simply did not provide it in time"


For the Congressmen who want to get involved, the answer is pretty simple. Disclosure. If the colleges have to disclose some of this data on a regular basis, most will be embarrassed into stopping the practices. Prop 16 was designed to stop this, but some seem to have found ways around the latest rules.
01-07-2014 09:11 PM
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ncbeta Offline
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RE: North Carolina and others and illiterates
I was just about to post this.

Of course I'd like to bash UNC, and many other teams, but I can't. This is more than that. This is an adults literacy. It's sad, very, very sad. I mean these are grown people who can't read, write or even speak properly. What are these parents thinking, sure their childs ticket to a scholarship is pressing, but isn't putting that scholly to good use just as important? These parents, coaches, teachers, etc really need to make sure these students can meet minimum standards for admission.

We all know that atheletes can get in with sub-par grades (when compared to other students), but these are people who can't even very meet the minimum requirements to get into an accredited D1 school. I do think the number is higher than the NCAA is letting on btw. There is no way only 30ish people are falling below that 700 on the SAT when 10% can't even read or write.

Very, very, sad, and it probably happens (more often) at more schools than we think.

These people are essentially non-qualifiers getting into school by some shady practices.
(This post was last modified: 01-07-2014 09:17 PM by ncbeta.)
01-07-2014 09:15 PM
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RE: North Carolina and others and illiterates
These athletes really should be in a JC, not barely kept eligible in a Division I school.
01-07-2014 09:34 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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RE: North Carolina and others and illiterates
This is a major issue for almost every school in the nation that plays D1 sports at a high level.
01-07-2014 09:42 PM
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Smaug Offline
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RE: North Carolina and others and illiterates
The APR has just forced schools to be more creative on how to keep knuckleheads eligible.

"Out of eligibility? Here's your certificate of attendance!"
01-07-2014 09:47 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: North Carolina and others and illiterates
(01-07-2014 09:34 PM)bullet Wrote:  These athletes really should be in a JC, not barely kept eligible in a Division I school.

JC? The problem starts long before that. It goes all the way down the ladder. A student who can't read should never be given a high school diploma, for that matter should never be promoted to high school at all until they've learned to read well.

You want more disclosure? Let's start that further down the line, too. If they're going to disclose college athletes who can't read above 8th-grade level, let's also disclose the names of the high schools and principals who gave these kids high school diplomas.
01-07-2014 10:06 PM
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ValleyBoy Offline
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RE: North Carolina and others and illiterates
(01-07-2014 10:06 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(01-07-2014 09:34 PM)bullet Wrote:  These athletes really should be in a JC, not barely kept eligible in a Division I school.

JC? The problem starts long before that. It goes all the way down the ladder. A student who can't read should never be given a high school diploma, for that matter should never be promoted to high school at all until they've learned to read well.

You want more disclosure? Let's start that further down the line, too. If they're going to disclose college athletes who can't read above 8th-grade level, let's also disclose the names of the high schools and principals who gave these kids high school diplomas.

While you are making your list of names to include start with everyone one in Washington that set the rules for our public education system.
01-07-2014 10:32 PM
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CK42NC Offline
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RE: North Carolina and others and illiterates
This is embarrassing in a lot of ways. It's not just about UNC anymore.
I can remember watching Former Pro DE Dexter Manley crying on 20/20 or 60 mins
saying that he couldn't even read his pro contact and barely write enough to sign it
Yes, changes must be Made! but many will continue to say it UNC's problem and not
the school they love to root for.
Unfortunately, This list will get bigger and we may not like what we're going to hear.
01-07-2014 10:48 PM
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PirateTreasureNC Offline
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RE: North Carolina and others and illiterates
(01-07-2014 10:48 PM)CK42NC Wrote:  This is embarrassing in a lot of ways. It's not just about UNC anymore.
I can remember watching Former Pro DE Dexter Manley crying on 20/20 or 60 mins
saying that he couldn't even read his pro contact and barely write enough to sign it
Yes, changes must be Made! but many will continue to say it UNC's problem and not
the school they love to root for.
Unfortunately, This list will get bigger and we may not like what we're going to hear.

Everyone worth their salt knows that with all the money at stake in athletics that academic "integrity" is a major gray scale. Look at all the different admission standards across the landscape. Look at the academic preferences athletes can get such as preferred school scheduling, tutors, ect... that a normal student just can't get. Look at what majors they take when they are there. The whole thing goes so deep that you probably don't want everybody investigating everybody.
01-07-2014 11:16 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: North Carolina and others and illiterates
(01-07-2014 10:32 PM)ValleyBoy Wrote:  
(01-07-2014 10:06 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(01-07-2014 09:34 PM)bullet Wrote:  These athletes really should be in a JC, not barely kept eligible in a Division I school.

JC? The problem starts long before that. It goes all the way down the ladder. A student who can't read should never be given a high school diploma, for that matter should never be promoted to high school at all until they've learned to read well.

You want more disclosure? Let's start that further down the line, too. If they're going to disclose college athletes who can't read above 8th-grade level, let's also disclose the names of the high schools and principals who gave these kids high school diplomas.

While you are making your list of names to include start with everyone one in Washington that set the rules for our public education system.

Pffft. A lot of mistakes are made in Washington, but no one in Washington is making local schools give decent grades to high school athletes who can't or won't do their schoolwork. That's on principals, teachers, coaches, and parents, who are all part of the reasons why star athletes are given the grades needed to stay eligible for sports even if those passing grades aren't deserved. Those are the reasons athletes who can't read well end up with high school diplomas and then tell their college academic advisors they can't read.
01-07-2014 11:34 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: North Carolina and others and illiterates
(01-07-2014 11:34 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(01-07-2014 10:32 PM)ValleyBoy Wrote:  
(01-07-2014 10:06 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(01-07-2014 09:34 PM)bullet Wrote:  These athletes really should be in a JC, not barely kept eligible in a Division I school.

JC? The problem starts long before that. It goes all the way down the ladder. A student who can't read should never be given a high school diploma, for that matter should never be promoted to high school at all until they've learned to read well.

You want more disclosure? Let's start that further down the line, too. If they're going to disclose college athletes who can't read above 8th-grade level, let's also disclose the names of the high schools and principals who gave these kids high school diplomas.

While you are making your list of names to include start with everyone one in Washington that set the rules for our public education system.

Pffft. A lot of mistakes are made in Washington, but no one in Washington is making local schools give decent grades to high school athletes who can't or won't do their schoolwork. That's on principals, teachers, coaches, and parents, who are all part of the reasons why star athletes are given the grades needed to stay eligible for sports even if those passing grades aren't deserved. Those are the reasons athletes who can't read well end up with high school diplomas and then tell their college academic advisors they can't read.

Wedge it's called a social pass. There are students (particularly two groups: athletes and problem children) who are given passes to get them out of the system as fast as is practical for the problem children and as fast as is profitable for the athletes. Junior high and Senior high programs like their sports too and their coaches can't wait to get a stud kid that can get them a promotion. That's why they are so compliant to look the other way when a college recruiter brings in a ringer to take that SAT or ACT. I've turned several of them in over the years. It's common as dirt and as old as the system. The athletes want the easy track, the coaches at the grade level and the college level want the easy track, and since it profits both systems there is little incentive within the system to police it.

When they get to college these kids are already years behind on the learning curve. The real tragedy is that some of them are quite bright and have never been given serious attention when it comes to academics. The problem is that colleges and universities are not set up for that level of remedial instruction and no amount of tutoring can do it legitimately either. So ringers take tests for the stars to keep them eligible, or they make up bogus academics like they allegedly did at U.N.C. to keep the G.P.A. up when they are out of sports courses to take which are taught by assistant coaches who hand out A's like they are Halloween candy.

My brother in law was a tutor to a very very famous NBA star who is bright, very bright, but by the time he got to his school he was too far behind to catch up. He did what he could honestly to stay eligible and when he ran out of courses he could pass he turned pro. To his credit he refused to play the ringer game, and refused to be dishonest about his abilities in academics. It has been a pleasure to see him continue to learn past his time at the school. But a disadvantaged kid with principles is hard to come by because most of them have been schooled by hard knocks and by one shyster after another wanting to make a living off of them.

They were doing it over 30 years ago when I turned a few schools in for finding ringers to take tests. I'm sure it is in high gear these days. Certainly, U.N.C. is not the only school guilty of these practices. It is only their claim to be an institution of academic repute, beyond the tag of diploma mill, that makes this seem more reprehensible. But, U.N.C. is no more, or less guilty, than all of the other schools at any level that promote kids because it is easy and profitable instead of teaching them.

It is time for reform. But it needs to be completely thorough. Every coach that practices it needs to be banned from the profession. Every school teacher that is complicitous with it needs to be fired. Every administrator that has looked the other way, or falsified grade reports, or recommended ringers, needs to be fired and prosecuted for fraud. ACT and SAT officials who do not render adequate identity checks need to be held accountable. And education needs to be seen as the completion of a human being and an attribute that makes athletes more valuable both as persons and as performers.

But in reality it is like the rest of the corruption that exists in business, government of all levels, and in virtually every facet of our lives. People want the cheap, easy, and optimally profitable means to an end and don't care how destructive the consequences are. It is a social cancer that is killing our civilization, and we like the corrupt societies before us will kill ourselves long before our enemies are capable of it if we continue to tolerate or encourage it. Our only hope is to truly be willing to start with honesty in the social contract with the most vulnerable of our citizens, poor children. If we don't do it for them, then we have lost our right to complain when our own children are marginalized, or when anyone or anything with more power and influence butchers our rights to get what they want. Truly freedom exists for all or it exists for none and the failure to educate is just as surely slavery as shackles.
(This post was last modified: 01-08-2014 12:18 AM by JRsec.)
01-08-2014 12:11 AM
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RE: North Carolina and others and illiterates
(01-07-2014 10:06 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(01-07-2014 09:34 PM)bullet Wrote:  These athletes really should be in a JC, not barely kept eligible in a Division I school.

JC? The problem starts long before that. It goes all the way down the ladder. A student who can't read should never be given a high school diploma, for that matter should never be promoted to high school at all until they've learned to read well.

Problem with that is that a lot of kids simply would never graduate from high school. For many of the kids in that situation, holding them back and failing them isn't going to increase their ability to learn appropriate reading and writing, math, science, history, etc.
01-08-2014 12:34 AM
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ncbeta Offline
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RE: North Carolina and others and illiterates
(01-08-2014 12:34 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  
(01-07-2014 10:06 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(01-07-2014 09:34 PM)bullet Wrote:  These athletes really should be in a JC, not barely kept eligible in a Division I school.

JC? The problem starts long before that. It goes all the way down the ladder. A student who can't read should never be given a high school diploma, for that matter should never be promoted to high school at all until they've learned to read well.

Problem with that is that a lot of kids simply would never graduate from high school. For many of the kids in that situation, holding them back and failing them isn't going to increase their ability to learn appropriate reading and writing, math, science, history, etc.

Instead of hurting them by marking their transcripts and stuff with "fail/failure" they need to just hold them until they can meet the requirements. If I had an extra year to really work on my math skills before college without looking like some kind of failure I probably would've had a lot more options coming in...
01-08-2014 12:37 AM
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Ned Low Offline
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RE: North Carolina and others and illiterates
I would like to say that I'm surprised to read this but I'm not.

I was in Durham recently and met a man who could not read at all. I helped him select chocolate ice cream and tried to show him how the word 'chocolate' looked so that he would be able to select it in the future. This was not an older man... this guy could not have been a day over 40. I genuinely felt sorry for him.

Our nation's education woes can be solely blamed on our public education system and the "give me" culture that many of us reside in nowadays.
01-08-2014 12:38 AM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: North Carolina and others and illiterates
(01-08-2014 12:34 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  
(01-07-2014 10:06 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(01-07-2014 09:34 PM)bullet Wrote:  These athletes really should be in a JC, not barely kept eligible in a Division I school.

JC? The problem starts long before that. It goes all the way down the ladder. A student who can't read should never be given a high school diploma, for that matter should never be promoted to high school at all until they've learned to read well.

Problem with that is that a lot of kids simply would never graduate from high school. For many of the kids in that situation, holding them back and failing them isn't going to increase their ability to learn appropriate reading and writing, math, science, history, etc.
Americans don't want to deal with it, but we would be far better served by a European system that has two tracks: professional & skilled. We do need to teach every child to read and write with some degree of competency as that goes hand in hand with other social responsibilities, and we need to teach every child addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division, along with world history and U.S. history, but every child should not have to take algebra, geometry, chemistry, physics, biology, or advanced grammar, poetry, or logic, etc.

There are plenty of diagnostics before the 6th grade is completed that would be indicative of the likelihood of the degree of success with either track of academic pursuit. At that point the choice of track should belong to the child's parents, if not the child. At the college level the further development of either track could then be pursued. The guarantee should be for the basics of education as a baseline with the burden of development beyond that on the individual.
(This post was last modified: 01-08-2014 12:55 AM by JRsec.)
01-08-2014 12:48 AM
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RE: North Carolina and others and illiterates
(01-08-2014 12:48 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-08-2014 12:34 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  
(01-07-2014 10:06 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(01-07-2014 09:34 PM)bullet Wrote:  These athletes really should be in a JC, not barely kept eligible in a Division I school.

JC? The problem starts long before that. It goes all the way down the ladder. A student who can't read should never be given a high school diploma, for that matter should never be promoted to high school at all until they've learned to read well.

Problem with that is that a lot of kids simply would never graduate from high school. For many of the kids in that situation, holding them back and failing them isn't going to increase their ability to learn appropriate reading and writing, math, science, history, etc.
Americans don't want to deal with it, but we would be far better served by a European system that has two tracks: professional & skilled. We do need to teach every child to read and write with some degree of competency as that goes hand in hand with other social responsibilities, and we need to teach every child addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division, along with world history and U.S. history, but every child should not have to take algebra, geometry, chemistry, physics, biology, or advanced grammar, poetry, or logic, etc.

There are plenty of diagnostics before the 6th grade is completed that would be indicative of the likelihood of the degree of success with either track of academic pursuit. At that point the choice of track should belong to the child's parents, if not the child. At the college level the further development of either track could then be pursued. The guarantee should be for the basics of education as a baseline with the burden of development beyond that on the individual.

04-bow
01-08-2014 06:50 AM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #17
RE: North Carolina and others and illiterates
The only issue with the University on this is that they allow in such a person because they can play a sport. Anyone else in that situation wouldn't be allowed in.

The real injustice in this story is our earlier education establishment. That is where the real crime is happening.
01-08-2014 07:32 AM
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Native Georgian Offline
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Post: #18
RE: North Carolina and others and illiterates
The University of Georgia went through a PR-disaster like this about 30 years ago. Google "Jan Kemp Affair" for details, but believe me, it was every bit as bad as the mess at UNCCH right now.

The main difference, really, is that UGA of 30 years ago was not viewed as, and did not claim to be, a nationally-elite university. UNCCH is and does. But maybe not much longer.
01-08-2014 09:46 AM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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RE: North Carolina and others and illiterates
The failure of our K-12 system is creating all kinds of problems for higher education.

I firmly believe that half of our society's problems would be solved if our public education system were at least half competent.
01-08-2014 09:53 AM
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RE: North Carolina and others and illiterates
The funny/sad thing is that teachers in North Carolina rank 48 out of 50 on the pay scale, and it takes 15 years of experience for a teacher in NC to make $40k. Think about that.

My wife taught in Northern VA (Fairfax County) and made almost twice as much as she does in North Carolina. Sickening.

And then you wonder why student-athletes at UNC read at or below an 8th grade level??
01-08-2014 10:02 AM
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