The unofficial online home for fans of the Western Michigan University Broncos. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(01-06-2014 09:51 AM)BandBronco13 Wrote:  I mean... do people seriously think the 1-11 record this past season was ALL on coaching? The previous staff was not recruiting well these last few years. Coaching of course makes a huge difference but talent wins game as well. You can hate P.J. for whatever reason, but he is recruiting VERY well and the wins will come if he keeps it up.

In a word......YES!!!!

The coaching or lack there of was a major part of 1-11. With the schedule they had, were they going to do much better than 4-8? No, but they were totally outclassed all season long.

I read this article this morning and wanted to throw my laptop out the window.

SPIN.

Once again its ALL SPIN and ALL about PJ. I couldn't get over how pretty much every sentence in that article started with "I". I did this and I did that and I am going to do this.

Personally, I am so over all of it. Done with buying any of the SPIN, done with listening to our used car salesman coach, done with believing any of the garbage that comes out of the ADs mouth. Just plain DONE.

We are a joke and a laughing stock. And the more that PT Barnum opens his mouth the worse it gets.

We lost to Nicholls State. Does anything else really need to be said?

(01-06-2014 10:12 AM)flushtheherd Wrote:  I get it... he won ONE game in 2013... Yep. Not making excuses for the over-all record... but also I am withholding judgment until I see him work his process for the next few seasons. If he continues to drown and prove a lack of ability to coach... then by all means I will be all in with regard to replacement. Until then I choose to sit back and wait it out...

Embrace The Process!

(01-06-2014 11:27 AM)ColinApocalypse Wrote:  We lost to Nicholls State. Does anything else really need to be said?

You can add:
A 56 point loss to Iowa
Lost to EMU days after their coach was fired
Lost to CMU despite CMU committing 5 turnovers
Are only win was because the opponent missed a 2 point conversion on their last possession and we had a 1 point lead

Can't believe how many of our "fans" are so short-sighted. It's refreshing to see the ones that get it.

(01-06-2014 11:52 AM)BandBronco13 Wrote:  Can't believe how many of our "fans" are so short-sighted. It's refreshing to see the ones that get it.

You've been a Bronco "fan" for what, two years? Three? 'bout 20-22 years old, right?

Lotta ballz to call us "short sighted," Junior.

(01-06-2014 10:45 AM)BandBronco13 Wrote:  

(01-06-2014 10:42 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  Remember those eight scholarship players who have left program as reported in GAZETTE other day?

Yes, knew about those kids leaving a while ago... kids leave programs all of the time. They saw the writing on the wall. Nobody of significance left. What's your point?

YOU'RE the Great Recruiting Wizard and you don't know what the point is?

Would you care to point out which eight of this year's class will be the ones of no significance who will be gone in two years, and how that will affect evaluation that Fleck is "recruiting well"?

I'm 28 years old. I've been on this earth plenty long enough to know what it takes to build a college football program in this day and age. I see everything behind the scenes, I talk to members of the A.D., I talk to the coaches, I know what the majority of the players (and recruits) think about Fleck, etc.

It's absolutely short-sighted to write off a coach after his first year, regardless of a 1-11 record because he is completely rebuilding everything -- whether people agree or disagree that it had to be done. If by year 3 or 4, we aren't seeing results, then I'd be the first one to eat crow and admit that he wasn't a good hire. But right now, he is doing just about everything right and doing everything he said he would do. He's been consistent. I have no reason to think WMU won't be contending for MAC championships before the end of his contract.

I never claimed to be a "recruiting wizard" -- all I see is a stacked recruiting class (for MAC standards) full of high-potential football players that chose WMU over A LOT of BCS offers. Even if 8 of them left, we'd probably still have the top class in the MAC.

(01-06-2014 12:11 PM)BandBronco13 Wrote:  It's absolutely short-sighted to write off a coach after his first year, regardless of a 1-11 record because he is completely rebuilding everything -- whether people agree or disagree that it had to be done. If by year 3 or 4, we aren't seeing results, then I'd be the first one to eat crow and admit that he wasn't a good hire. But right now, he is doing just about everything right and doing everything he said he would do. He's been consistent. I have no reason to think WMU won't be contending for MAC championships before the end of his contract.

Give us a break! Completely rebuilding? You spin as much as the AD, or Graham Couch. Our worst record under the prior staff was 4-8. I don't see that as a complete rebuild. Team was 2 years removed from a bowl game. We also had the MAC FOY in his last year so you can't say that recruiting had fallen off either.

You call us short sighted, but I say to you to take off the rose covered glasses. Last year was our worst showing since 2004 - and that record got the coach fired! Our losses were far uglier than anything we had seen in the past decade. We have an "all about me" coach who has made himself a laughing stock and the program a joke.

Maybe kids are buying into him for now. We'll see how far that goes in the coming years. But to date I have not seen anything from the current staff to give me confidence in our future.

Hoople - Remember the player in this 2014 class that you made somewhat disparaging comments about last fall? For what it's worth, I've seen this player play in person before, and I agree with your comments about him potentially being overrated. But he has a great frame and his upside is very high. So although he may turn out to be a dud, he could also develop into a stud with proper coaching and strength training. Who knows, that's TBD.

That same recruit also told me that his family had taken a visit when the previous regime was here and never came back... never considered WMU an option after the visit. He was all but headed to CMU after that. But when P.J. Fleck was hired, the kid (and his parents) decided to give WMU another chance and were blown away. Didn't take long for him to commit to WMU after that. Those are the kind of testimonials that have me buying into Fleck and what he is doing. We hear things like this ALL of the time. Pretty surprising that our "fans" simply poo-poo these kinds of things and write them off as no big deal.

(01-06-2014 12:26 PM)Broncobelt Wrote:  

(01-06-2014 12:11 PM)BandBronco13 Wrote:  It's absolutely short-sighted to write off a coach after his first year, regardless of a 1-11 record because he is completely rebuilding everything -- whether people agree or disagree that it had to be done. If by year 3 or 4, we aren't seeing results, then I'd be the first one to eat crow and admit that he wasn't a good hire. But right now, he is doing just about everything right and doing everything he said he would do. He's been consistent. I have no reason to think WMU won't be contending for MAC championships before the end of his contract.

Give us a break! Completely rebuilding? You spin as much as the AD, or Graham Couch. Our worst record under the prior staff was 4-8. I don't see that as a complete rebuild.

And that's your problem. I never said you had to agree with the fact that he is completely rebuilding the program. It may or may not have been necessary (after hearing what I've heard, I can understand the need). But that is what happened. Kathy hired Fleck to rebuild and that is what Fleck is doing. Both have been consistent from the beginning.

(01-06-2014 12:26 PM)Broncobelt Wrote:  I have not seen anything from the current staff to give me confidence in our future.

You have seen his recruiting. That doesn't impress you or give you any hope?

I am not discounting the importance of recruiting in CFB at all. I did it for six years (plus one in hoops). As someone posted, it is one leg of the stool, and a very important one.

I'm discounting the value of RATING recruiting classes before the kids even set foot on the practice field.

Heck recruiting is not even a science for those that do it.

For example, take a roster or a team picture for any year you choose.

Add up the number of scholarship players (signed LOIs) who are no longer there. Don't even have to count ones that aren't contributing significantly.

Then add in the number of Walk-Ons that earned scholarships.

The total will be the number of recruiting "mistakes" that staff made

I get what you are saying Hoople, because I am equally as skeptical about ratings because I see them change all of the time when a kid commits to a "bigger school" just like you do. But it's also no coincidence that Alabama's 2008, 2009, 2011, and 2012 recruiting classes were all ranked #1 in the country. In the same regard, look at who led the MAC in recruiting in 2010-2012: Kent State, NIU, Toledo, Ohio, and BGSU. The rankings might not be an exact science, but they do tell us something.

NIU fans will sit here and try to act like they've done this all with poor recruiting classes, but that's simply not true. According to Rivals.com they've had the #3, #2, #4 classes in the MAC between 2010-2012. Three solid recruiting classes adds up to a good football team. Last year, they had a bit of a dip (#8), but they have another strong one coming in for 2014. They'll likely finish right behind WMU at #2.

(01-06-2014 12:11 PM)BandBronco13 Wrote:  I'm 28 years old. I've been on this earth plenty long enough to know what it takes to build a college football program in this day and age. I see everything

2 points in regards to this wonderful opening line.

1. Maybe some of us have been around a little longer and its easier for us to know a one trick pony when we see one.

2. What college football program did you build again?

(01-06-2014 09:30 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  

(01-06-2014 09:06 AM)JPWMU Wrote:  I wonder what Stacey has to say about this.

Who?

Stacey Cubit.

Hang in there BandB, it's hard to teach old dogs new tricks. We are obviously on an upward trajectory, just hard for them to see with their BC blinders on.