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OT: Christys Gone
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The T-Shirt Offline
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Post: #61
RE: OT: Christys Gone
Whoa. A full grown adult who uses the word "retarded" to describe things, and looks down on those who don't have degrees and perform the tasks that he is so clearly above. Nicely done, sir, nicely done.
 
01-08-2014 12:19 PM
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DMT Offline
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RE: OT: Christys Gone
(01-08-2014 12:19 PM)The T-Shirt Wrote:  Whoa. A full grown adult who uses the word "retarded" to describe things, and looks down on those who don't have degrees and perform the tasks that he is so clearly above. Nicely done, sir, nicely done.

I see. So, you're a snob who never makes derogatory remarks about anything or anyone and thinks the janitor is his work place is of equal worth to Einstein, Teddy Roosevelt, John Rockerfeller etc? What a serene fantasy world you live must live in.
 
01-08-2014 12:33 PM
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RE: OT: Christys Gone
(01-08-2014 11:41 AM)DMT Wrote:  
(01-08-2014 11:28 AM)bearcatmill Wrote:  I'm not sure how you went from plumbers and food service managers to artificial insemination of pigs and toilet scrubbers. Plumbers and managers are considered professional occupations. The later category are hourly employees, which requires no education.

I know some plumbers who make great coin. In many instances better coin than many of my college and professional friends. To say a field, such as plumbing, is a lesser occupation is extremely ignorant on your part. Craftsmen, ie plumbers, carpenters, welders, electricians, can make some great money/career, if they are good at their jobs.

I really do not think you are pompous, as much as you look extremely ignorant on these matters.

Again, the average salary for plumbers is just shy of 42 grand a year, same with the management role discussed earlier. I'm sure there may be a well off plumber or electrician some place but they're the exception not the rule.
At the point you're working much harder for equal pay, it just seems like you've been had. I assure you, I'm not stopping people from going into trade school to be a plumber or electrician, I'm just saying, there are much better careers, almost all of which require a degree.
When you tell people "take up a trade" rather than "go to college", you're basically telling them to lie in a rut and die there.
It's not a lovely proposition and most aren't going to want to do it. It's human nature, if people don't want to do it, they won't do it.


As far as the examples I used, I just used the lowest end I could think of to demonstrate that the statement by Teakwood " You do not matter more or are any more important than anyone else." while well meaning, is a load of sentimental non-sense we say to make ourselves feel less guilty. We're not all equal, to say we are is monstrous and cruel. If we were all equal, what would we strive for, what would be the point?

Life's about the end result. Not the journey.

I am not advocating for someone to "take up a trade" rather than "go to college." In today's economic climate a college degree or even an advanced degree does not guarantee economic success.

An example is my profession - law. There are a great number of attorneys facing huge student loan debt and in many instances underemployment or unemployment. I need to go back and find the specific article, however the ABA did a piece, in the last couple years, discussing how the vast majority of recent law/medical school graduates are not going to be able to payback their loans.

Undergraduate degrees today do not offer the security they once possessed. On top of this prospect the majority of students today are taking out loans for a majority of their schooling.

Just food for thought.
 
01-08-2014 12:34 PM
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DMT Offline
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Post: #64
RE: OT: Christys Gone
(01-08-2014 12:05 PM)subflea Wrote:  The winner of the game of life isn't the one who has the most money when they die. It is the one who enjoyed playing it the most. The one who soaked in the journey. You can most definitely enjoy life as a plumber, an electrician, or a manager of Panda Express.

And it's that mentality that keeps the lower class looking up at you. Trust me, the plumber isn't happy, the manager at Panda Express smells and nobody, outside of their kids and ex-wives who don't respect them will remember who they are.
Why does the christian do what he does? To earn his seat next to the ancient of days in paradise. Why does the Buddhist shun worldly things and follow a path of enlightenment? So he can end the cycle of death and rebirth and his suffering in the process. Why did people sail into new waters? To find land. Why does the secular humanist spend his time pursuing peace? Because he wants a world where he won't get hurt.

It wasn't enough to put a Leprechaun at the end of the rainbow. He had to have a pot of gold. There's an end to every endeavor, if there wasn't, we wouldn't bother. That's life, if people don't care for it; they're free to off themselves.
 
(This post was last modified: 01-08-2014 12:43 PM by DMT.)
01-08-2014 12:42 PM
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CDS86 Offline
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Post: #65
RE: OT: Christys Gone
(01-08-2014 09:59 AM)DMT Wrote:  
(01-08-2014 08:30 AM)Banter Wrote:  
(01-07-2014 10:13 PM)DMT Wrote:  
(01-07-2014 02:36 PM)Banter Wrote:  
(01-07-2014 02:30 PM)Eastside_J Wrote:  My prediction as well.

Near zero long bond rates have allowed it to continue.

The debate has already started regarding whether a 4 year degree at current costs/debt loads is even worth it for many students.

More and more people are going to begin to look for lower cost alternatives.

The one real shame is that going to college is beat into so many peoples brains that it has become expected even though only 33% of the US have BA's or higher. There has been a demand for tradesmen for awhile, and it is because everyone feels college is the answer. Granted learning, and doing a trade is not easy, but it does offer good paying jobs, and is a great alternative for those who don't want to go the college route.


It's easy to say there are too many people going to college, but the reality is there are no jobs. Skill trades like electricians and plumbers are not glamorous and to think people are going to take less pay, with their only reward being a repetitive, mind numbing, daily grind; is unrealistic. I think a lot of people would benefit from just going for an associates but really, college should not cost as much as it does. There are countries who give it away and some of them make ours look like retarded diploma mills. Say what you want about the welfare state, in this day and age, the days of manufacturing and assembly are gone. If you don't have a degree, you're nobody. In fact, even if you have one, you might be nobody.

There are many trades That have an average salary higher than the average salary with a B.A.. They are not glamorous, but only thirty some percent of the United States has a B.A.. I would rather learn to be a welder, plumber, or electrician than manage a Panda Express.

Why? Plumbers and Panda Express managers both make slightly over 40 grand a year. Neither person matters, there's a mass of people doing the same thing you're doing. Your life is just as insignificant, the only difference is you'd be working way harder.
Harder work for equal pay just means you're a chump. I can understand immigrants being plumbers, welders though? Isn't welding something a lot of people learn to do in their off time? That's not an occupation, that's a hobby. Trade school isn't full of geniuses, that's for damn sure.

Hobby for some, occupation for a hell of a lot more. Welders can come out of trade schools making $40k+/year. If you work in the nuclear industry, double or triple that figure. Same if you're working on pipelines (some up in the Canadian oil sands pull in $200k or so). The skill some of these guys have is insane - the welds have to literally be flawless or they risk failure, causing not only a ton of lost money, but perhaps injuries and even deaths. Ever gotten under the hood and laid a bead? I'd venture to guess that you haven't.

A lot of those blue collar guys take pride in the work they do. Give woodworking or welding or any kind of trade-style craft a shot some time and see if that changes your perspective a bit.

"Genius" is relative/subjective, as is whether or not you consider what you do in life to be significant.
 
01-08-2014 12:51 PM
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Bruce Monnin Offline
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Post: #66
RE: OT: Christys Gone
I am better than all of you. I searched at college for the girl with the highest EEP (estimated earning potential) I could find.

Now I work part time as a substitute teacher and high school sportswriter, ride my bicycle a lot, visit my daughter at college, and watch How I Met Your Mother reruns every afternoon, while my wife rakes in the bucks.

I win.
 
01-08-2014 12:55 PM
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RE: OT: Christys Gone
(01-08-2014 12:55 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  I am better than all of you. I searched at college for the girl with the highest EEP (estimated earning potential) I could find.

Now I work part time as a substitute teacher and high school sportswriter, ride my bicycle a lot, visit my daughter at college, and watch How I Met Your Mother reruns every afternoon, while my wife rakes in the bucks.

I win.

Yes, you do. Except that you live in Minster and watch How I Met Your Mother. 03-nerner
 
(This post was last modified: 01-08-2014 01:05 PM by Ragpicker.)
01-08-2014 01:02 PM
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RE: OT: Christys Gone
(01-08-2014 12:51 PM)CDS86 Wrote:  Hobby for some, occupation for a hell of a lot more. Welders can come out of trade schools making $40k+/year. If you work in the nuclear industry, double or triple that figure. Same if you're working on pipelines (some up in the Canadian oil sands pull in $200k or so). The skill some of these guys have is insane - the welds have to literally be flawless or they risk failure, causing not only a ton of lost money, but perhaps injuries and even deaths. Ever gotten under the hood and laid a bead? I'd venture to guess that you haven't.

A lot of those blue collar guys take pride in the work they do. Give woodworking or welding or any kind of trade-style craft a shot some time and see if that changes your perspective a bit.

"Genius" is relative/subjective, as is whether or not you consider what you do in life to be significant.

It is true, that some people with skill trades can make a lot of money but again, your average plumber or electrician isn't doing that. Ask your local roto rooter employee how much he pulls in. I bet it's not much more than a ups driver.
Except the UPS guy has better job security since he's with a union and he works way less. If you're a masochist, by all means, worker harder for less. I just can't be bothered and neither can most.
 
01-08-2014 01:06 PM
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RE: OT: Christys Gone
Dude's gotta go. Nothing but a agitator.
 
01-08-2014 01:10 PM
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RE: OT: Christys Gone
(01-08-2014 01:06 PM)DMT Wrote:  Except the UPS guy has better job security since he's with a union and he works way less.

Not so sure a UPS route driver works way less. In fact, I give major props to UPS, FedEx, Cintas, G&K, and any food route guys. My last job had us go out and work with these guys a few days a year. I put in many 14 to 16 hour days collecting uniforms, kicking up mats, and meeting the grocery manager at 4:00am. Did it in snowy Vermont last February, and in 100 degree temp in Charlotte in 2012. Those dudes work long and hard days. 04-rock
 
01-08-2014 01:15 PM
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Post: #71
RE: OT: Christys Gone
(01-08-2014 01:02 PM)Ragpicker Wrote:  
(01-08-2014 12:55 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  I am better than all of you. I searched at college for the girl with the highest EEP (estimated earning potential) I could find.

Now I work part time as a substitute teacher and high school sportswriter, ride my bicycle a lot, visit my daughter at college, and watch How I Met Your Mother reruns every afternoon, while my wife rakes in the bucks.

I win.

Yes, you do. Except that you live in Minster and watch How I Met Your Mother. 03-nerner
x2
 
01-08-2014 01:23 PM
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DMT Offline
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RE: OT: Christys Gone
(01-08-2014 01:15 PM)Ragpicker Wrote:  
(01-08-2014 01:06 PM)DMT Wrote:  Except the UPS guy has better job security since he's with a union and he works way less.

Not so sure a UPS route driver works way less. In fact, I give major props to UPS, FedEx, Cintas, G&K, and any food route guys. My last job had us go out and work with these guys a few days a year. I put in many 14 to 16 hour days collecting uniforms, kicking up mats, and meeting the grocery manager at 4:00am. Did it in snowy Vermont last February, and in 100 degree temp in Charlotte in 2012. Those dudes work long and hard days. 04-rock
I wasn't with UPS that long, loading crew sucked. The hours were basically non-existent and the union stewards on the floor were annoying. Between them and management...
 
01-08-2014 01:29 PM
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Post: #73
RE: OT: Christys Gone
(01-08-2014 01:15 PM)Ragpicker Wrote:  
(01-08-2014 01:06 PM)DMT Wrote:  Except the UPS guy has better job security since he's with a union and he works way less.

Not so sure a UPS route driver works way less. In fact, I give major props to UPS, FedEx, Cintas, G&K, and any food route guys. My last job had us go out and work with these guys a few days a year. I put in many 14 to 16 hour days collecting uniforms, kicking up mats, and meeting the grocery manager at 4:00am. Did it in snowy Vermont last February, and in 100 degree temp in Charlotte in 2012. Those dudes work long and hard days. 04-rock

I worked for UPS back when I was at UC. It is hard work. I never drove but let me tell you everyone there is busting their hump. Physically it was the hardest work I have ever done. As noted managment was on your tail.

Got to be good friends with one of the day drivers. He had a business route and a typical week for him was 60 hours. He started at UPS right out of high school and at the time was in hislate 30s. Back in the mid-90s he was making 75-80K a year. It made me think long and hard about what I wanted to do with my life. One could make a comfortable living on that kind of income. The physcial nature of the job results in you staying in shape.

I chose to continue my education and work in a different setting. I earn more money than he did (not a whole heck of a lot) and I log just as many hours. My job is much more mentally and emotionally taxing. Sometimes I wonder if I made the right choice.
 
(This post was last modified: 01-08-2014 01:33 PM by CliftonAve.)
01-08-2014 01:32 PM
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Post: #74
RE: OT: Christys Gone
(01-08-2014 12:34 PM)bearcatmill Wrote:  
(01-08-2014 11:41 AM)DMT Wrote:  
(01-08-2014 11:28 AM)bearcatmill Wrote:  I'm not sure how you went from plumbers and food service managers to artificial insemination of pigs and toilet scrubbers. Plumbers and managers are considered professional occupations. The later category are hourly employees, which requires no education.

I know some plumbers who make great coin. In many instances better coin than many of my college and professional friends. To say a field, such as plumbing, is a lesser occupation is extremely ignorant on your part. Craftsmen, ie plumbers, carpenters, welders, electricians, can make some great money/career, if they are good at their jobs.

I really do not think you are pompous, as much as you look extremely ignorant on these matters.

Again, the average salary for plumbers is just shy of 42 grand a year, same with the management role discussed earlier. I'm sure there may be a well off plumber or electrician some place but they're the exception not the rule.
At the point you're working much harder for equal pay, it just seems like you've been had. I assure you, I'm not stopping people from going into trade school to be a plumber or electrician, I'm just saying, there are much better careers, almost all of which require a degree.
When you tell people "take up a trade" rather than "go to college", you're basically telling them to lie in a rut and die there.
It's not a lovely proposition and most aren't going to want to do it. It's human nature, if people don't want to do it, they won't do it.


As far as the examples I used, I just used the lowest end I could think of to demonstrate that the statement by Teakwood " You do not matter more or are any more important than anyone else." while well meaning, is a load of sentimental non-sense we say to make ourselves feel less guilty. We're not all equal, to say we are is monstrous and cruel. If we were all equal, what would we strive for, what would be the point?

Life's about the end result. Not the journey.

I am not advocating for someone to "take up a trade" rather than "go to college." In today's economic climate a college degree or even an advanced degree does not guarantee economic success.

An example is my profession - law. There are a great number of attorneys facing huge student loan debt and in many instances underemployment or unemployment. I need to go back and find the specific article, however the ABA did a piece, in the last couple years, discussing how the vast majority of recent law/medical school graduates are not going to be able to payback their loans.

Undergraduate degrees today do not offer the security they once possessed. On top of this prospect the majority of students today are taking out loans for a majority of their schooling.

Just food for thought.

But us lawyers can take solace in the fact that we're living a more significant and meaningful life than the plumbers, electricians, and restaurant owners that pay us, right? 03-banghead

I
 
01-08-2014 01:57 PM
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RE: OT: Christys Gone
(01-08-2014 12:42 PM)DMT Wrote:  
(01-08-2014 12:05 PM)subflea Wrote:  The winner of the game of life isn't the one who has the most money when they die. It is the one who enjoyed playing it the most. The one who soaked in the journey. You can most definitely enjoy life as a plumber, an electrician, or a manager of Panda Express.

And it's that mentality that keeps the lower class looking up at you. Trust me, the plumber isn't happy, the manager at Panda Express smells and nobody, outside of their kids and ex-wives who don't respect them will remember who they are.
Why does the christian do what he does? To earn his seat next to the ancient of days in paradise. Why does the Buddhist shun worldly things and follow a path of enlightenment? So he can end the cycle of death and rebirth and his suffering in the process. Why did people sail into new waters? To find land. Why does the secular humanist spend his time pursuing peace? Because he wants a world where he won't get hurt.

It wasn't enough to put a Leprechaun at the end of the rainbow. He had to have a pot of gold. There's an end to every endeavor, if there wasn't, we wouldn't bother. That's life, if people don't care for it; they're free to off themselves.

I am all for upward mobility. You just seem to think it only exists with a college degree. There is plenty of upward mobility in the trade industry.

Your mentality is what keeps the lower class looking up. The thought that anyone who works hard is a chump. You seem to want to get maximum pay for minimal effort. Sorry, but in order to move anywhere in this world you have "embrace the suck". That is part of the journey. I know plenty of people who are in supervisory positions in working class jobs who do not have college degrees. While they admit it sucked for the several years where they were working hard and making little money, none of them would trade those experiences for anything.

Even the examples you gave me, the lottery winner, the leprechaun, are both examples of trying to get the maximum payout with the least amount of work. Of course the lottery winner doesn't look back fondly at the walk to buy the ticket. It is because he did minimal work for a huge payout. I guarantee the guy who is a plumber and in charge of several crews of guys looks back fondly at his days of driving a van and sticking his hands inside a toilet full of ****.
 
01-08-2014 01:59 PM
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RE: OT: Christys Gone
(01-08-2014 11:41 AM)DMT Wrote:  
(01-08-2014 11:28 AM)bearcatmill Wrote:  I'm not sure how you went from plumbers and food service managers to artificial insemination of pigs and toilet scrubbers. Plumbers and managers are considered professional occupations. The later category are hourly employees, which requires no education.

I know some plumbers who make great coin. In many instances better coin than many of my college and professional friends. To say a field, such as plumbing, is a lesser occupation is extremely ignorant on your part. Craftsmen, ie plumbers, carpenters, welders, electricians, can make some great money/career, if they are good at their jobs.

I really do not think you are pompous, as much as you look extremely ignorant on these matters.

Again, the average salary for plumbers is just shy of 42 grand a year, same with the management role discussed earlier. I'm sure there may be a well off plumber or electrician some place but they're the exception not the rule.
At the point you're working much harder for equal pay, it just seems like you've been had. I assure you, I'm not stopping people from going into trade school to be a plumber or electrician, I'm just saying, there are much better careers, almost all of which require a degree.
When you tell people "take up a trade" rather than "go to college", you're basically telling them to lie in a rut and die there.
It's not a lovely proposition and most aren't going to want to do it. It's human nature, if people don't want to do it, they won't do it.


As far as the examples I used, I just used the lowest end I could think of to demonstrate that the statement by Teakwood " You do not matter more or are any more important than anyone else." while well meaning, is a load of sentimental non-sense we say to make ourselves feel less guilty. We're not all equal, to say we are is monstrous and cruel. If we were all equal, what would we strive for, what would be the point?

Life's about the end result. Not the journey.

Oh please.

You dish out smug elitism as if others have been had and yet you cling to the thought that in order to succeed you need to do a 4 year dance and get your card punched with a degree. Sounds to me like you are every bit a herd member who simply sees his herd as better than others.

Isn't that just the collective storyline you were fed? Aren't you just regurgitating your own socio-economic meme?
 
01-08-2014 02:15 PM
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Post: #77
RE: OT: Christys Gone
(01-08-2014 01:59 PM)subflea Wrote:  I am all for upward mobility. You just seem to think it only exists with a college degree. There is plenty of upward mobility in the trade industry.




That wasn't my point at all. My point was, the AVERAGE person leaving trade school, doesn't have a whole hell of a lot to look forward to. Meanwhile, someone like say a criminalist(not to be confused with a criminologist) can end up with a greater salary, with a far less labor intensive and far more mentally stimulating occupation. A person with a degree is likely to be in a better position without one and as I said before, skill trades are hard. Sometimes even mindless.

Quote:Your mentality is what keeps the lower class looking up. The thought that anyone who works hard is a chump. You seem to want to get maximum pay for minimal effort. Sorry, but in order to move anywhere in this world you have "embrace the suck". That is part of the journey. I know plenty of people who are in supervisory positions in working class jobs who do not have college degrees. While they admit it sucked for the several years where they were working hard and making little money, none of them would trade those experiences for anything.


That's not what I said. I said, that those who worker harder for equal or less pay, are chumps. If I offered to pay you $100
to help me move a couch, then offered a friend of yours $1,000 to help me move a bar coaster, you'd bust a fking gasket. And rightfully so. It's a mean thing to do.
Beyond that, the lower/welfare class, is content to live in a rut. They are not striving to get high earning careers and if they really valued their money, they'd stop popping out kids left and right.

And who can blame them? In a world where everyone is just great and nobody keeps score, even in little league games; what's their motivation? A pat on the back? Sentimental sweet little nothings, it's the same thing priests do. Egalitarianism is a cult. Cash is something I can hold, what is your journey? A lovely talking point and an evil ideology that makes us content. Contentment needs to die.
Quote:Even the examples you gave me, the lottery winner, the leprechaun, are both examples of trying to get the maximum payout with the least amount of work. Of course the lottery winner doesn't look back fondly at the walk to buy the ticket. It is because he did minimal work for a huge payout. I guarantee the guy who is a plumber and in charge of several crews of guys looks back fondly at his days of driving a van and sticking his hands inside a toilet full of ****.

And that's his reward, a pot full of **** and a lovely conversation with even more schmoes.
 
(This post was last modified: 01-08-2014 02:53 PM by DMT.)
01-08-2014 02:18 PM
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RE: OT: Christys Gone
So, I hear they tore down Christy's...03-lmfao
 
01-08-2014 02:52 PM
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RE: OT: Christys Gone
(01-08-2014 02:52 PM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  So, I hear they tore down Christy's...03-lmfao

Pics or it didn't happen. By the way, who knew there were so many (actual) lawyers on this board?
 
01-08-2014 02:57 PM
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RE: OT: Christys Gone
(01-08-2014 02:57 PM)AZBCAT Wrote:  
(01-08-2014 02:52 PM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  So, I hear they tore down Christy's...03-lmfao

Pics or it didn't happen. By the way, who knew there were so many (actual) lawyers on this board?

It truly is amazing. I nearly had to get one on retainer on another board when a sincere wish of mine to meet/speak with...a certain...odd...period-filled poster...with random...sometimes outrageous...thoughts...mistook it as a physical threat! 03-cool - its the closest I could find to a pirate smiley.
 
01-08-2014 03:23 PM
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