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WIowl Offline
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SMU basketball
Already 11-3 this year and just defeated UCONN in front of 7,000+ fans in Moody. Quick fix at SMU, wish we could get that at Rice.
01-04-2014 06:00 PM
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wrysal Offline
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RE: SMU basketball
It really helps in basketball to have no recruiting standards.
01-04-2014 06:14 PM
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Traveler413 Offline
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RE: SMU basketball
Last year (Brown's first), they were 15-17 (5-11 in CUSA), so it is indeed demonstrative of how quickly a change in culture and leadership can change things. I don't think we'd be able to match the 7,000+ fans part so quickly, only partly because Tudor's capacity is lower, but there is no question that a basketball empire could be built much faster and easier than what we have spent years accumulating in football... and we will need basketball to come around to help our conference upgrade hopes, unless we plan on becoming perennial top 20 contenders in football every year. We have proven we can recruit good players that meet our academic standards; we just need to continue finding ones that want to stay at Rice and can accept the associated challenges that we currently face.

(01-04-2014 06:00 PM)WIowl Wrote:  Already 11-3 this year and just defeated UCONN in front of 7,000+ fans in Moody. Quick fix at SMU, wish we could get that at Rice.
01-04-2014 06:19 PM
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Fort Bend Owl Online
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RE: SMU basketball
UH upset UConn also earlier this week, although it was maybe half that many folks in the stands (and that might be generous). SMU is doing better than I thought under Larry Brown but he made some good assistant coaching hires. They did just lose a transfer to A&M.

Hopefully we'll have some folks at Tudor tonight for Harvard. They always seem to bring out a few local alums (and they're 11-1 and a pretty good team).
01-04-2014 06:22 PM
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Antarius Offline
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RE: SMU basketball
(01-04-2014 06:14 PM)wrysal Wrote:  It really helps in basketball to have no recruiting standards.

This doesn't explain how Harvard managed to punk us so badly though last year.
(This post was last modified: 01-04-2014 06:26 PM by Antarius.)
01-04-2014 06:25 PM
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Fort Bend Owl Online
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RE: SMU basketball
Well I hate to rehash the whole basketball transfer deal yet again but I'd say a Rice starting lineup of Max Guercy, Dylan Ennis, Jarelle Reischel, Sean Obi and Omar Oraby would have roughly the same record as SMU and very easily could challenge for an NCAA appearance. Although I did notice the other day that certain Rice transfers aren't exactly lighting it up for their new teams (David Chadwick for example at Valporaiso has about the same minutes played average there as he had at Rice and his whole reason for leaving Rice was to get more playing time elsewhere).

It's easier to get it done in hoops at a school like Harvard or Rice than other sports. In fact, Harvard and Princeton might just be the two best teams we play all year long.
(This post was last modified: 01-04-2014 06:37 PM by Fort Bend Owl.)
01-04-2014 06:37 PM
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RiceLad15 Offline
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RE: SMU basketball
(01-04-2014 06:25 PM)Antarius Wrote:  
(01-04-2014 06:14 PM)wrysal Wrote:  It really helps in basketball to have no recruiting standards.

This doesn't explain how Harvard managed to punk us so badly though last year.

IIRC, Harvard has actually started playing some games with their recruiting to avoid a lot of the challenges their academics and Ivy League status create.
01-04-2014 06:47 PM
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Antarius Offline
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RE: SMU basketball
(01-04-2014 06:47 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(01-04-2014 06:25 PM)Antarius Wrote:  
(01-04-2014 06:14 PM)wrysal Wrote:  It really helps in basketball to have no recruiting standards.

This doesn't explain how Harvard managed to punk us so badly though last year.

IIRC, Harvard has actually started playing some games with their recruiting to avoid a lot of the challenges their academics and Ivy League status create.

Whats the source of this? I ask because there have been comments here and there about how much harder it is to get into Rice than Stanford, but I am not sure how this is determined.

While lower standards make things easier, it is clearly doable with higher standards. Really just wish we would stop using recruiting standards as a way to pooh-pooh at others success and somehow justify our shortcomings (general comment, not directed at you RiceLad)
(This post was last modified: 01-04-2014 07:11 PM by Antarius.)
01-04-2014 07:10 PM
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Traveler413 Offline
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RE: SMU basketball
Perhaps Ivy League schools are allowed a few exceptions to the academic index thresholds, but I am assuming that if Harvard could somehow "lower" its admission requirements relative to the Ivy League standards, they could (and probably would) still be higher than the Stanfords, Vanderbilts, Northwesterns, and Rices of the world. If that isn't true, I would be happy to be corrected.

(01-04-2014 06:47 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(01-04-2014 06:25 PM)Antarius Wrote:  
(01-04-2014 06:14 PM)wrysal Wrote:  It really helps in basketball to have no recruiting standards.

This doesn't explain how Harvard managed to punk us so badly though last year.

IIRC, Harvard has actually started playing some games with their recruiting to avoid a lot of the challenges their academics and Ivy League status create.
01-04-2014 07:18 PM
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At Ease Offline
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RE: SMU basketball
(01-04-2014 06:14 PM)wrysal Wrote:  It really helps in basketball to have no recruiting standards.

When you offer Demarcus Cousins I think you lose the right to play this card.
01-04-2014 07:19 PM
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georgewebb Offline
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Post: #11
RE: SMU basketball
(01-04-2014 07:18 PM)Traveler413 Wrote:  I am assuming that if Harvard could somehow "lower" its admission requirements relative to the Ivy League standards, they could (and probably would) still be higher than the Stanfords, Vanderbilts, Northwesterns, and Rices of the world.
What makes you think that? It certainly can't be the caliber of students or alumni you've encountered from the ivies compared to Rice or Stanford.
01-04-2014 07:35 PM
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WIowl Offline
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RE: SMU basketball
(01-04-2014 06:14 PM)wrysal Wrote:  It really helps in basketball to have no recruiting standards.

Or

Larry Brown, Tommy Amaker >>>> Ben Braun
01-04-2014 07:45 PM
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Gravy Owl Offline
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RE: SMU basketball
(01-04-2014 06:37 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  David Chadwick for example at Valporaiso has about the same minutes played average there as he had at Rice and his whole reason for leaving Rice was to get more playing time elsewhere

Well, that was the publicly announced reason. I was skeptical of it even at the time and I am more skeptical of it in hindsight. But I agree with your bigger points.

(01-04-2014 07:19 PM)At Ease Wrote:  When you offer Demarcus Cousins I think you lose the right to play this card.

Well put. At this point it should be clear that entrance requirements are far down the list of our problems, but for Rice fans it's a Pavlovian response.
01-04-2014 07:53 PM
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RiceLad15 Offline
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RE: SMU basketball
(01-04-2014 07:10 PM)Antarius Wrote:  
(01-04-2014 06:47 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(01-04-2014 06:25 PM)Antarius Wrote:  
(01-04-2014 06:14 PM)wrysal Wrote:  It really helps in basketball to have no recruiting standards.

This doesn't explain how Harvard managed to punk us so badly though last year.

IIRC, Harvard has actually started playing some games with their recruiting to avoid a lot of the challenges their academics and Ivy League status create.

Whats the source of this? I ask because there have been comments here and there about how much harder it is to get into Rice than Stanford, but I am not sure how this is determined.

While lower standards make things easier, it is clearly doable with higher standards. Really just wish we would stop using recruiting standards as a way to pooh-pooh at others success and somehow justify our shortcomings (general comment, not directed at you RiceLad)

There have been suspicions about lower academic standards, but my memory did serve correct in the fact that they are basically giving out basketball scholarships now due to changes in financial aid, and how it is awarded university wide.

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2012/3...ge=single#

http://deadspin.com/5892921/is-harvard-n...juggernaut

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/2012/01/cr...owerhouse/
01-04-2014 07:59 PM
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Antarius Offline
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RE: SMU basketball
(01-04-2014 07:59 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(01-04-2014 07:10 PM)Antarius Wrote:  
(01-04-2014 06:47 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(01-04-2014 06:25 PM)Antarius Wrote:  
(01-04-2014 06:14 PM)wrysal Wrote:  It really helps in basketball to have no recruiting standards.

This doesn't explain how Harvard managed to punk us so badly though last year.

IIRC, Harvard has actually started playing some games with their recruiting to avoid a lot of the challenges their academics and Ivy League status create.

Whats the source of this? I ask because there have been comments here and there about how much harder it is to get into Rice than Stanford, but I am not sure how this is determined.

While lower standards make things easier, it is clearly doable with higher standards. Really just wish we would stop using recruiting standards as a way to pooh-pooh at others success and somehow justify our shortcomings (general comment, not directed at you RiceLad)

There have been suspicions about lower academic standards, but my memory did serve correct in the fact that they are basically giving out basketball scholarships now due to changes in financial aid, and how it is awarded university wide.

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2012/3...ge=single#

http://deadspin.com/5892921/is-harvard-n...juggernaut

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/2012/01/cr...owerhouse/

Which is on par with what we do. Unproven allegations aside, we have no justification for losing to them.

Thanks for the links. Interesting reads.
01-04-2014 08:19 PM
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Traveler413 Offline
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Post: #16
RE: SMU basketball
(01-04-2014 07:35 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  
(01-04-2014 07:18 PM)Traveler413 Wrote:  I am assuming that if Harvard could somehow "lower" its admission requirements relative to the Ivy League standards, they could (and probably would) still be higher than the Stanfords, Vanderbilts, Northwesterns, and Rices of the world.
What makes you think that? It certainly can't be the caliber of students or alumni you've encountered from the ivies compared to Rice or Stanford.

Sorry, I probably should have read that before posting... My intended contention was that no Division I schools outside of the Ivies have as oppressive academic standards for athletes as those imposed by the Ivy academic index. However, I should not have made that supposition since I doubt any available data exists to support it. In fact, no one here would or could refute that we have the most talented (academically and otherwise) student athletes in the country, and we recruit mostly the same athletes as the Ivies. Now, whether Ennis, Reischel, Kazemi, Ibrahim could/would have qualified for Harvard/Princeton is an interesting question, but it is one that we cannot answer. I also do not know enough about Harvard/Princeton's programs to speak to the frequency of players transferring to junior colleges or the likes of Florida Gulf Coast, but there are many reasons for recent Rice transfers, including more playing time and proximity to home.
01-04-2014 08:30 PM
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Tiki Owl Offline
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RE: SMU basketball
Well Morcos was telling everyone he talked to they could get into Rice.
01-04-2014 08:36 PM
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MemOwl Offline
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RE: SMU basketball
Not sure if this belongs here or on the Harvard game thread once they blow us out, but here goes:

1. Any basketball player who suits up for Harvard would be admissible at Rice.

2. Amaker can offer players with household income below $60k a full ride.

3. Any student admitted to Harvard from a household with income below $60k gets a full ride. That is, the guiding principle of financial aid in the Ivies is that it is need based and athletic participation is not a factor.

4. Amaker's troubles are more of a technicality variety. He was accused of not being transparent with recruits about the fact that Admissions must sign off on every player.

Bottom line--we aren't Harvard, but there are enough basketball players out there who can get in to Rice. We need to recruit them and keep them.
01-04-2014 08:39 PM
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RiceDoc Offline
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RE: SMU basketball
(01-04-2014 08:39 PM)MemOwl Wrote:  Not sure if this belongs here or on the Harvard game thread once they blow us out, but here goes:

1. Any basketball player who suits up for Harvard would be admissible at Rice.

2. Amaker can offer players with household income below $60k a full ride.

3. Any student admitted to Harvard from a household with income below $60k gets a full ride. That is, the guiding principle of financial aid in the Ivies is that it is need based and athletic participation is not a factor.

4. Amaker's troubles are more of a technicality variety. He was accused of not being transparent with recruits about the fact that Admissions must sign off on every player.

Bottom line--we aren't Harvard, but there are enough basketball players out there who can get in to Rice. We need to recruit them and keep them.

This has been true for years, at least as far back as when I was recruited by the Ivies in the early 80's. They were all guaranteeing X% based on household income level plus Y% based on academic standing, where X+Y=100. So no athletic scholarships, but full rides nonetheless. That was for football, but their entire athletic departments ran that way. Harvard was among the more aggressive on making sure you understood that if you inked the LOI with them, they would get you the non-athletic based scholarship money. They wouldn't flat out say it, but it was clear that the two were inextricably intertwined too.
01-04-2014 10:44 PM
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MemOwl Offline
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RE: SMU basketball
(01-04-2014 06:37 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I did notice the other day that certain Rice transfers aren't exactly lighting it up for their new teams

On Thursday, Jarrelle Reischel got 4 minutes in a 9 point win over Brown, a lower tier Ivy league team. sigh.

http://brownbears.com/sports/m-baskbl/20...2_5a8k.xml
01-04-2014 11:05 PM
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