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Doesn't Caupain have to be our starting PG going forward?
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handwaver Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Doesn't Caupain have to be our starting PG going forward?
Duh! Starting or not, Caupain needs 30 minutes - that's how many Kilpatrick plays and Caupain's ability to provide assists will only feed SK's stats. Everyone touts Guyn's defense....but I want the player who has: 3 times as many assists (35-12), 6 times as many steals (18-3), and a lot more points (102-71), not to mention shoots free throws at 80% as opposed to 60%, something really important in a point guard. Guyn is still a valuable player...no one survives with just one capable point. (people forget, the UC final four team had Nick Van Exel at point, but another guard, A.D. Jackson, had been a point guard too)

Bottom line is that Caupain has deserved the bulk of the minutes. Cronin has eyes, he knows what's happening - he's being cautious, bringing Troy along as he is ready and not throwing Guyn aside and trashing his condfidence. I think, barring any setbacks, we'll see Caupain creep up to 22-25 minutes in the next 5-7 games, and if he keeps developing at a rapid rate (esp. on defense), he'll be up to 25-30 by March.


On a different note, am I the only one on this board who can't stand to try to read black text on a gray background?
 
(This post was last modified: 01-06-2014 11:10 AM by handwaver.)
01-06-2014 11:09 AM
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ucbrownsfan Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Doesn't Caupain have to be our starting PG going forward?
(01-06-2014 11:09 AM)handwaver Wrote:  " (people forget, the UC final four team had Nick Van Exel at point, but another guard, A.D. Jackson, had been a point guard too)"

And it was the 15th game of the season when Nicky V took over the starting PG duties. Jackson had started the whole year prior. Huggins made the right move, and it led to a FF. Hopefully Cronin follows suit both regards.
 
01-06-2014 11:25 AM
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mikecat Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Doesn't Caupain have to be our starting PG going forward?
caupain should be starting and KJ should gets Guyn's minutes,its doesn't make sense to start your 11th best player,you can justify defense or whatever but bottom line he is our 10 or 11th best player should be getting 2-5 minutes a game!!!!
 
01-06-2014 03:07 PM
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subflea Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Doesn't Caupain have to be our starting PG going forward?
I am usually a fan of saying go with what is working, but in this case, I think Caupain needs to start. I would love for us to get some early momentum in a game for a change. I would rather bring Guyn in for his defense after getting off to a decent start on offense.
 
01-06-2014 03:16 PM
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CincyBro Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Doesn't Caupain have to be our starting PG going forward?
Three guard rotation, Caupain, Johnson and Kilpatrick. Time to shorten the bench.
 
(This post was last modified: 01-06-2014 03:26 PM by CincyBro.)
01-06-2014 03:26 PM
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rath v2.0 Offline
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RE: Doesn't Caupain have to be our starting PG going forward?
(01-06-2014 03:16 PM)subflea Wrote:  I am usually a fan of saying go with what is working, but in this case, I think Caupain needs to start. I would love for us to get some early momentum in a game for a change. I would rather bring Guyn in for his defense after getting off to a decent start on offense.


I am with you. I think that is the plan as the year unfolds. Perhaps this is a way to let the game come to him early on versus having him hopped up for being out there for the opening tipoff.

Guyn is such a drop off from the freshmen, IMO. No knock intended. I love his effort. I just think the young man's all around game is much better suited to a smaller conference program.
 
01-07-2014 05:42 AM
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BeerCat Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Doesn't Caupain have to be our starting PG going forward?
(01-06-2014 03:16 PM)subflea Wrote:  I am usually a fan of saying go with what is working, but in this case, I think Caupain needs to start. I would love for us to get some early momentum in a game for a change. I would rather bring Guyn in for his defense after getting off to a decent start on offense.

This. The team looks like it's playing in a foot of mud for the first 4 minutes every game. Caupain changes that immediately. I can't believe how comfortable he looks out there, and how uncomfortable Guyn looks out ther constantly pulling the ball back out to the top of the key and looking to Cronin for a play call. Caupain is the first guy since Downey to constantly put pressure on a defense.
 
01-07-2014 08:05 AM
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mikecat Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Doesn't Caupain have to be our starting PG going forward?
(01-07-2014 08:05 AM)BeerCat Wrote:  
(01-06-2014 03:16 PM)subflea Wrote:  I am usually a fan of saying go with what is working, but in this case, I think Caupain needs to start. I would love for us to get some early momentum in a game for a change. I would rather bring Guyn in for his defense after getting off to a decent start on offense.

This. The team looks like it's playing in a foot of mud for the first 4 minutes every game. Caupain changes that immediately. I can't believe how comfortable he looks out there, and how uncomfortable Guyn looks out ther constantly pulling the ball back out to the top of the key and looking to Cronin for a play call. Caupain is the first guy since Downey to constantly put pressure on a defense.

Like I said Guyn starting screws up the whole rotation not only does Caupain sit for the first 4-5 minutes it moves KJ down to closer to the 10 minute mark.Guyn needs to be out of the rotation period unless we have some extreme foul trouble,the more time the kids get on the court the better they will be come March.IMO I see no benefit to Guyn playing.
 
01-07-2014 09:39 AM
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RealDeal Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Doesn't Caupain have to be our starting PG going forward?
Guyn needs to be part of the rotation. We have 4 scholarship guards and two are true freshmen. We can't wear those guys out by making them play 25-30 min per night. Now when we get to March do I agree with shortening the rotation and playing those guys more? Absolutely.
 
01-07-2014 09:48 AM
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Ring of Black Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Doesn't Caupain have to be our starting PG going forward?
(01-07-2014 05:42 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  
(01-06-2014 03:16 PM)subflea Wrote:  I am usually a fan of saying go with what is working, but in this case, I think Caupain needs to start. I would love for us to get some early momentum in a game for a change. I would rather bring Guyn in for his defense after getting off to a decent start on offense.


I am with you. I think that is the plan as the year unfolds. Perhaps this is a way to let the game come to him early on versus having him hopped up for being out there for the opening tipoff.

Guyn is such a drop off from the freshmen, IMO. No knock intended. I love his effort. I just think the young man's all around game is much better suited to a smaller conference program.

I am not advocating "waiving" Guyn (this ain't the NBA), but I agree with you both. I don't completely buy into the whole "it's not who starts, it's who finishes" thing. Finishing is more important, but getting off to a good start is pretty important too.
 
01-07-2014 09:50 AM
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bearcatlawjd Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Doesn't Caupain have to be our starting PG going forward?
I think Guyn has been dealing with an injury too. He isn't a true point guard but he is a physical guard that can knock down a three or get to the basket he reserve level type minutes. There is going to be a game or two where Troy and Kevin don't play well and UC is going to need Guyn play more minutes and come through.

So far Mick is doing a good job defining the roles on this team. Much better than last year season when he couldn't settle on offensive philosophy or rotation. Titus Rubles and Justin Jackson are not big guards this season.
 
01-07-2014 09:55 AM
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cinbinsportsfan Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Doesn't Caupain have to be our starting PG going forward?
I fully understand the concept of jumping out to a lead by starting your best offensive point guard and I won't argue against those points. But I'm okay with Ge'Lawn Guyn starting over Troy Caupain because 1) Caupain garners more minutes up during the game 2) the time he spends on the floor are critical moments and 3) he provides a spark off the bench.

I like having a 6th man Mick Cronin can go to who can swing momentum early in the game much like Sean Kilpatrick 4 years ago. Cronin can start Guyn then throw Caupain on the court to completely turn the game on its head. It's a nice Ace for Cronin to have up his sleeve.
 
01-07-2014 10:16 AM
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ucbrownsfan Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Doesn't Caupain have to be our starting PG going forward?
(01-07-2014 10:16 AM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  I fully understand the concept of jumping out to a lead by starting your best offensive point guard and I won't argue against those points. But I'm okay with Ge'Lawn Guyn starting over Troy Caupain because 1) Caupain garners more minutes up during the game 2) the time he spends on the floor are critical moments and 3) he provides a spark off the bench.

I like having a 6th man Mick Cronin can go to who can swing momentum early in the game much like Sean Kilpatrick 4 years ago. Cronin can start Guyn then throw Caupain on the court to completely turn the game on its head. It's a nice Ace for Cronin to have up his sleeve.

Right now Jermaine Sanders fits the offensive 6th man role well, IMO. Even Kevin Johnson. Sanders is 2nd on our team in made 3's and 3rd on our team in offensive rebounds.

The big problem is Shaq Thomas/ Guyn combine for 27 Assists and 32 TO's, while Sanders and Caupain combine for 50 Assists and 25 TO's.
 
01-07-2014 10:42 AM
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cinbinsportsfan Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Doesn't Caupain have to be our starting PG going forward?
(01-07-2014 10:42 AM)ucbrownsfan Wrote:  
(01-07-2014 10:16 AM)cinbinsportsfan Wrote:  I fully understand the concept of jumping out to a lead by starting your best offensive point guard and I won't argue against those points. But I'm okay with Ge'Lawn Guyn starting over Troy Caupain because 1) Caupain garners more minutes up during the game 2) the time he spends on the floor are critical moments and 3) he provides a spark off the bench.

I like having a 6th man Mick Cronin can go to who can swing momentum early in the game much like Sean Kilpatrick 4 years ago. Cronin can start Guyn then throw Caupain on the court to completely turn the game on its head. It's a nice Ace for Cronin to have up his sleeve.

Right now Jermaine Sanders fits the offensive 6th man role well, IMO. Even Kevin Johnson. Sanders is 2nd on our team in made 3's and 3rd on our team in offensive rebounds.

The big problem is Shaq Thomas/ Guyn combine for 27 Assists and 32 TO's, while Sanders and Caupain combine for 50 Assists and 25 TO's.

Yea I could see Sanders, Caupain, or Johnson filling that 6th man role. And again I totally understand the argument for starting Caupain and rejiggering the lineup in general. But I'm okay with how things are now. I'm really not sure why. Heck, maybe it's because they're winning...
 
(This post was last modified: 01-07-2014 11:05 AM by cinbinsportsfan.)
01-07-2014 11:04 AM
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Post: #35
RE: Doesn't Caupain have to be our starting PG going forward?
Just a thought guys - but I would bet dimes to donuts Guyn is an important guy for us this year and even more so next year. Senior guards are a coveted asset in this game.

Maybe it is better for Caupain to develop into "the guy" without having to be "the guy" from day one. The guy I saw tonight in Houston was a talented player not ready for the dominant takeover role.

Just my .02 and obviously no one ever listens to me - but go easy on Guyn. He has improved every year and we need what he does. Next year we will still need what he does and he will be even better.

Doesn't take an ounce away from Troy C. and what he might develop into.
 
01-08-2014 01:11 AM
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mikecat Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Doesn't Caupain have to be our starting PG going forward?
I don't want Guyn taking the 2nd most shots like he did last night,that I know for sure.
 
01-08-2014 08:01 AM
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@ES Trader Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Doesn't Caupain have to be our starting PG going forward?
Maybe guyn works harder in the offseason...i'm sure he has noticed the difference it made for jackson.
 
01-08-2014 08:14 AM
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RealDeal Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Doesn't Caupain have to be our starting PG going forward?
Totally unrelated to his basketball skills did you hear them say last night that he had a 45.5 inch vertical leap? Is that right? I knew he was a good athlete but that's crazy.
 
01-08-2014 08:18 AM
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Mark Wolfram Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Doesn't Caupain have to be our starting PG going forward?
(01-08-2014 01:11 AM)Eastside_J Wrote:  Just a thought guys - but I would bet dimes to donuts Guyn is an important guy for us this year and even more so next year. Senior guards are a coveted asset in this game.

Maybe it is better for Caupain to develop into "the guy" without having to be "the guy" from day one. The guy I saw tonight in Houston was a talented player not ready for the dominant takeover role.

Just my .02 and obviously no one ever listens to me - but go easy on Guyn. He has improved every year and we need what he does. Next year we will still need what he does and he will be even better.

Doesn't take an ounce away from Troy C. and what he might develop into.

Eastside I saw the same thing.
 
01-08-2014 09:27 AM
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RE: Doesn't Caupain have to be our starting PG going forward?
(01-08-2014 09:27 AM)Mark Wolfram Wrote:  
(01-08-2014 01:11 AM)Eastside_J Wrote:  Just a thought guys - but I would bet dimes to donuts Guyn is an important guy for us this year and even more so next year. Senior guards are a coveted asset in this game.

Maybe it is better for Caupain to develop into "the guy" without having to be "the guy" from day one. The guy I saw tonight in Houston was a talented player not ready for the dominant takeover role.

Just my .02 and obviously no one ever listens to me - but go easy on Guyn. He has improved every year and we need what he does. Next year we will still need what he does and he will be even better.

Doesn't take an ounce away from Troy C. and what he might develop into.

Eastside I saw the same thing.

x3
 
01-08-2014 09:37 AM
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