(01-05-2014 11:14 AM)Joe1 Wrote:  

(01-04-2014 11:14 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(01-04-2014 10:00 PM)TigerBo Wrote:  

(01-04-2014 09:18 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(01-04-2014 06:31 PM)TigerBo Wrote:  I think JJ and Dixon on the court at the same time is just toxic and disruptive to our offense and overall play, and not just because they're both 6' or less. Maybe that's just me.

This team goes as Joe goes. Just look at the two blow out losses. In those games Joe has not played hard and at 100mph. For us to go deep Joe is going to have to play hard and at 100 mph.

If that's the case.. and I agree that it is, Josh needs to make it clear to everyone this is Joe's team, and tell Dixon to pull it back a little. And gawd would I hate to be the lone big on the floor with 4 small guards.

I think everyone knows it but when Joe doesn't play hard somebody has got to attack and Dixon seems to be the only one not afraid to attack and shoot.

Now I agree that Dixon has killed so many times, but so has Geron

this is silly to think Joe wasn't playing hard. while Joe wasn't playing hard he still managed to out score Dixon and Geron. Joe needs to stay on the floor in order for us to win, he is way to valuable. He shot 6 for 13. He should stay on the floor, him being on the floor gives us the best chance to win.

If you can't tell that Joe wasn't playing hard yesterday just go back and watch the south Florida game where he was limited because of fouls and then go watch yesterday's game again. There is a major difference in the way he played yesterday from how he played at USF.

I'll even give you an example from yesterday. There was a sequence layer in the second yesterday where Joe just stood in the corner and let the other guards just pass it and take a terrible shot. At first glance I thought they just weren't giving Joe the ball then I went back and watched it over and Joe didn't make an effort to come get the ball or get open. That was how Joe played against Oklahoma St the first time. If you remember in that game Joe had a nice stretch where he was able to get to the hole for easy buckets, but then as soon as they started denying him the ball he eventually sopped trying to get the ball

I'm sorry, but when Joe plays like that he doesn't give us any advantage while on the court. Also don't comeback with Dixon never passed or the other guards just took quick shots. This is Joe's team I know it, you know it, we all know it, the team knows it. With that being the case Joe needs to come get the ball on the offensive end, work to get open, work to get the ball, and get back on defense.

I like Joe and one defended him so many times during his time at Memphis, but when he doesn't play hard ( working to get the ball) he hurts us more than he helps.

(01-05-2014 11:59 AM)tigers0830 Wrote:  I'll even give you an example from yesterday. There was a sequence layer in the second yesterday where Joe just stood in the corner and let the other guards just pass it and take a terrible shot. At first glance I thought they just weren't giving Joe the ball then I went back and watched it over and Joe didn't make an effort to come get the ball or get open. That was how Joe played against Oklahoma St the first time. If you remember in that game Joe had a nice stretch where he was able to get to the hole for easy buckets, but then as soon as they started denying him the ball he eventually sopped trying to get the ball

I'm sorry, but when Joe plays like that he doesn't give us any advantage while on the court. Also don't comeback with Dixon never passed or the other guards just took quick shots. This is Joe's team I know it, you know it, we all know it, the team knows it. With that being the case Joe needs to come get the ball on the offensive end, work to get open, work to get the ball, and get back on defense.

I like Joe and one defended him so many times during his time at Memphis, but when he doesn't play hard ( working to get the ball) he hurts us more than he helps.

Crawford has been known to stand around over in the corner. Could be trying to get a quick rest, but seems it would be best to sub them out for a rest and put in another fresh player ready to force the defense to guard them.

(01-05-2014 11:59 AM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(01-05-2014 11:14 AM)Joe1 Wrote:  

(01-04-2014 11:14 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(01-04-2014 10:00 PM)TigerBo Wrote:  

(01-04-2014 09:18 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  This team goes as Joe goes. Just look at the two blow out losses. In those games Joe has not played hard and at 100mph. For us to go deep Joe is going to have to play hard and at 100 mph.

If that's the case.. and I agree that it is, Josh needs to make it clear to everyone this is Joe's team, and tell Dixon to pull it back a little. And gawd would I hate to be the lone big on the floor with 4 small guards.

I think everyone knows it but when Joe doesn't play hard somebody has got to attack and Dixon seems to be the only one not afraid to attack and shoot.

Now I agree that Dixon has killed so many times, but so has Geron

this is silly to think Joe wasn't playing hard. while Joe wasn't playing hard he still managed to out score Dixon and Geron. Joe needs to stay on the floor in order for us to win, he is way to valuable. He shot 6 for 13. He should stay on the floor, him being on the floor gives us the best chance to win.

If you can't tell that Joe wasn't playing hard yesterday just go back and watch the south Florida game where he was limited because of fouls and then go watch yesterday's game again. There is a major difference in the way he played yesterday from how he played at USF.

I'll even give you an example from yesterday. There was a sequence layer in the second yesterday where Joe just stood in the corner and let the other guards just pass it and take a terrible shot. At first glance I thought they just weren't giving Joe the ball then I went back and watched it over and Joe didn't make an effort to come get the ball or get open. That was how Joe played against Oklahoma St the first time. If you remember in that game Joe had a nice stretch where he was able to get to the hole for easy buckets, but then as soon as they started denying him the ball he eventually sopped trying to get the ball

I'm sorry, but when Joe plays like that he doesn't give us any advantage while on the court. Also don't comeback with Dixon never passed or the other guards just took quick shots. This is Joe's team I know it, you know it, we all know it, the team knows it. With that being the case Joe needs to come get the ball on the offensive end, work to get open, work to get the ball, and get back on defense.

I like Joe and one defended him so many times during his time at Memphis, but when he doesn't play hard ( working to get the ball) he hurts us more than he helps.

taking him out of the game is waving the white towel. you can not take your best player out of the game. the coach has to find a way to get out of him what he wants, not throw in the towel and get mad at him and sit him on the bench. call him over put your hands on both his shoulders and look him in his eyes and tell him "I need you, you got to help us, you are my guy, we cant win this with out you, ect." this is coaching this is getting the most out of a player, this is getting the most out of a bad situation. Dana Kirk was a master at it, Cal was awesome and still is at it. its reaching a guy with out creating divide. thus giving you and your team the BEST chance to win. I personally want to win. im not taking my best player out. punish him somewhere else. this is a people job. every player is different and has a different back ground. the great leaders can work with anyone.

(01-05-2014 10:26 AM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  

(01-05-2014 01:46 AM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(01-05-2014 12:22 AM)Tiger46 Wrote:  Austin was out muscled a bit today, but sitting him on the bench isn't going to fix that. He needs to play. If we were playing a true center, PF and SF, he would get more help and be more productive.

Austin hasn't produced enough lately to warrant more playing time. This is a production type game. It's great that he blocks shots, but when he doesn't rebound he isn't much use.

For example today Cincy killed us on the offensive glass in the first half where Nichols played all his minutes. Now in the second half with Pellom playing the most we reversed the offensive glass woes. I like Nichols but he his majorly struggling right now. I honestly think it might be good to let him see the game at the start from the bench and then come in and ready to go to work.


Another thing everyone knew coming into the year we were going to live and die with the for guards, but it seems the majority are shocked when we don't play with a natural lineup. The four guards are the strength of the team we play to it it's that simple. So when they play bad we look really bad but when they play well we look really good. Other than two games they have played well.

I still say this team goes as Joe goes

I agree with Tiger46 that playing a true 5, 4, and a TRUE 3, would vastly help the frontcourt and the overall team.

Opposing teams knew little about Austin until they saw what he could do in Orlando. Now they are fronting & doubling him the entire game. Put in Nick King and he would either help free up Austin +/Shaq/Pellom/Big Dom, or find himself open to attack the basket or dish. The other plus is King will hit the glass. Iverson and Wilson can help too.

Austin has hit the wall? Shaq played well in the beginning last year when he was in with Tarik. Shaq hit the wall when we went 1-4 and he was the only true big in the game.

Also, I wasn’t a fan of living or dying with the 4 guards. We had 7 new cleared players so I knew we had other options. Again, Austin & Shaq played very well in Orlando with Shaq being MVP. Without them we probably don’t get past LSU. So what happens when our guards are off, just throw in the towel?

Sorry. Balanced teams win big games, get good seeds, and roll in March.

While I agree balanced teams are better there are always exceptions. Villanova being the most recent exception. I believe it was the '05/'06 season they played with for guards and everyone thought Wright was insane and that it wasn't going to work. Well they lost the games ask year and made it to the elite 8.

It's not conventional but it can work. I am fine with living and dying written these guards because they are the strength of the team. By playing a normal style and lineup we eliminate our advantage that we have with playing the guards or four guards.

The problem is right now we aren't sporting well at all from three. Well all teams are going to do is sag in the paint to take away the easy buckets and make is hot outside shots. Until we start hitting them this is going to be the result in some games.

Most freshman hit a wall is natural. Ross hit one whole he was here, Tyreke hit one whole he was here, and Austin has hit one now. He will be fine and will help us, but right now he is getting pushed around in the post

(01-05-2014 12:09 PM)Joe1 Wrote:  

(01-05-2014 11:59 AM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(01-05-2014 11:14 AM)Joe1 Wrote:  

(01-04-2014 11:14 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(01-04-2014 10:00 PM)TigerBo Wrote:  If that's the case.. and I agree that it is, Josh needs to make it clear to everyone this is Joe's team, and tell Dixon to pull it back a little. And gawd would I hate to be the lone big on the floor with 4 small guards.

I think everyone knows it but when Joe doesn't play hard somebody has got to attack and Dixon seems to be the only one not afraid to attack and shoot.

Now I agree that Dixon has killed so many times, but so has Geron

this is silly to think Joe wasn't playing hard. while Joe wasn't playing hard he still managed to out score Dixon and Geron. Joe needs to stay on the floor in order for us to win, he is way to valuable. He shot 6 for 13. He should stay on the floor, him being on the floor gives us the best chance to win.

If you can't tell that Joe wasn't playing hard yesterday just go back and watch the south Florida game where he was limited because of fouls and then go watch yesterday's game again. There is a major difference in the way he played yesterday from how he played at USF.

I'll even give you an example from yesterday. There was a sequence layer in the second yesterday where Joe just stood in the corner and let the other guards just pass it and take a terrible shot. At first glance I thought they just weren't giving Joe the ball then I went back and watched it over and Joe didn't make an effort to come get the ball or get open. That was how Joe played against Oklahoma St the first time. If you remember in that game Joe had a nice stretch where he was able to get to the hole for easy buckets, but then as soon as they started denying him the ball he eventually sopped trying to get the ball

I'm sorry, but when Joe plays like that he doesn't give us any advantage while on the court. Also don't comeback with Dixon never passed or the other guards just took quick shots. This is Joe's team I know it, you know it, we all know it, the team knows it. With that being the case Joe needs to come get the ball on the offensive end, work to get open, work to get the ball, and get back on defense.

I like Joe and one defended him so many times during his time at Memphis, but when he doesn't play hard ( working to get the ball) he hurts us more than he helps.

taking him out of the game is waving the white towel. you can not take your best player out of the game. the coach has to find a way to get out of him what he wants, not throw in the towel and get mad at him and sit him on the bench. call him over put your hands on both his shoulders and look him in his eyes and tell him "I need you, you got to help us, you are my guy, we cant win this with out you, ect." this is coaching this is getting the most out of a player, this is getting the most out of a bad situation. Dana Kirk was a master at it, Cal was awesome and still is at it. its reaching a guy with out creating divide. thus giving you and your team the BEST chance to win. I personally want to win. im not taking my best player out. punish him somewhere else. this is a people job. every player is different and has a different back ground. the great leaders can work with anyone.

Um dude even Cal would've benched Joe yesterday as soon as he saw he wasn't getting back on defense. I don't know how else to say this but Joe was hurting more than helping yesterday. He was letting his man by constantly on defense or letting his man beat him down the court.

As huge as we all know Cal is on defense Joe would've been on the bench in no time

Maybe Joe was sick

(01-05-2014 12:06 PM)dan o Wrote:  

(01-05-2014 11:59 AM)tigers0830 Wrote:  I'll even give you an example from yesterday. There was a sequence layer in the second yesterday where Joe just stood in the corner and let the other guards just pass it and take a terrible shot. At first glance I thought they just weren't giving Joe the ball then I went back and watched it over and Joe didn't make an effort to come get the ball or get open. That was how Joe played against Oklahoma St the first time. If you remember in that game Joe had a nice stretch where he was able to get to the hole for easy buckets, but then as soon as they started denying him the ball he eventually sopped trying to get the ball

I'm sorry, but when Joe plays like that he doesn't give us any advantage while on the court. Also don't comeback with Dixon never passed or the other guards just took quick shots. This is Joe's team I know it, you know it, we all know it, the team knows it. With that being the case Joe needs to come get the ball on the offensive end, work to get open, work to get the ball, and get back on defense.

I like Joe and one defended him so many times during his time at Memphis, but when he doesn't play hard ( working to get the ball) he hurts us more than he helps.

Crawford has been known to stand around over in the corner. Could be trying to get a quick rest, but seems it would be best to sub them out for a rest and put in another fresh player ready to force the defense to guard them.

I agree with that about Crawford, but Chris I believe sometimes stands in the corner waiting for the kickoff three attempt

(01-05-2014 12:18 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(01-05-2014 12:09 PM)Joe1 Wrote:  

(01-05-2014 11:59 AM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(01-05-2014 11:14 AM)Joe1 Wrote:  

(01-04-2014 11:14 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  I think everyone knows it but when Joe doesn't play hard somebody has got to attack and Dixon seems to be the only one not afraid to attack and shoot.

Now I agree that Dixon has killed so many times, but so has Geron

this is silly to think Joe wasn't playing hard. while Joe wasn't playing hard he still managed to out score Dixon and Geron. Joe needs to stay on the floor in order for us to win, he is way to valuable. He shot 6 for 13. He should stay on the floor, him being on the floor gives us the best chance to win.

If you can't tell that Joe wasn't playing hard yesterday just go back and watch the south Florida game where he was limited because of fouls and then go watch yesterday's game again. There is a major difference in the way he played yesterday from how he played at USF.

I'll even give you an example from yesterday. There was a sequence layer in the second yesterday where Joe just stood in the corner and let the other guards just pass it and take a terrible shot. At first glance I thought they just weren't giving Joe the ball then I went back and watched it over and Joe didn't make an effort to come get the ball or get open. That was how Joe played against Oklahoma St the first time. If you remember in that game Joe had a nice stretch where he was able to get to the hole for easy buckets, but then as soon as they started denying him the ball he eventually sopped trying to get the ball

I'm sorry, but when Joe plays like that he doesn't give us any advantage while on the court. Also don't comeback with Dixon never passed or the other guards just took quick shots. This is Joe's team I know it, you know it, we all know it, the team knows it. With that being the case Joe needs to come get the ball on the offensive end, work to get open, work to get the ball, and get back on defense.

I like Joe and one defended him so many times during his time at Memphis, but when he doesn't play hard ( working to get the ball) he hurts us more than he helps.

taking him out of the game is waving the white towel. you can not take your best player out of the game. the coach has to find a way to get out of him what he wants, not throw in the towel and get mad at him and sit him on the bench. call him over put your hands on both his shoulders and look him in his eyes and tell him "I need you, you got to help us, you are my guy, we cant win this with out you, ect." this is coaching this is getting the most out of a player, this is getting the most out of a bad situation. Dana Kirk was a master at it, Cal was awesome and still is at it. its reaching a guy with out creating divide. thus giving you and your team the BEST chance to win. I personally want to win. im not taking my best player out. punish him somewhere else. this is a people job. every player is different and has a different back ground. the great leaders can work with anyone.

Um dude even Cal would've benched Joe yesterday as soon as he saw he wasn't getting back on defense. I don't know how else to say this but Joe was hurting more than helping yesterday. He was letting his man by constantly on defense or letting his man beat him down the court.

As huge as we all know Cal is on defense Joe would've been on the bench in no time

I tried my best to explain. we will have to respectfully disagree. you seem to know about the game, I know I do. I have only been going since James Bradley days. again, the coach has to reach his players, especially the ones that will make or break his own butt. lastly, the issue you are speaking of applied to everyone out on the floor. time and time again I watch Dixon, Crawford, Johnson turn the ball over take piss poor shots and mostly never stay in front of the guy they are guarding. so, what you are saying applies to them all. Dixon by himself was killing us, yet stayed in the game. People in my section were screaming get Dixon out of the game. the same standards should apply to each player. piss poor play means come out. Calkins said it in this morning paper, there seems to be a double standard. but hey, im ok with you having your thoughts and opinion and please let me have mine and we can still get along.

oh by the way, Josh is hurting us too. so lets not give him a pass. his coaching yesterday was very bad. he was flat out, out coached.

(01-05-2014 12:18 PM)dan o Wrote:  Maybe Joe was sick

Good teams must have one leader, a coach on the floor, ideally your PG. IMO.. Joe cannot accomplish this with another 6' guard on the floor running amuck. JJ has not been given control of this team and I think that's part of the problem. How can Josh have such a leash on JJ and have another out there like a chicken with his head cut off and let him run wild with little or no consequences? I would have to think frustration set in with Joe yesterday, and I don't blame him. We should have one of the best PG/backup PG situations in the nation, but instead we play them together which I think screws up chemistry on this team while also making us too small at the 1 and 2.. then we also go small at the 3 and sometimes 4, so.. it is what it is, as some like to say.

And... I like Josh and want him to be hugely successful, and think he probably will be in time, but I would be awfully curious what a crafty veteran coach would/could do with this roster.

(01-05-2014 12:49 PM)TigerBo Wrote:  

(01-05-2014 12:18 PM)dan o Wrote:  Maybe Joe was sick

Good teams must have one leader, a coach on the floor, ideally your PG. IMO.. Joe cannot accomplish this with another 6' guard on the floor running amuck. JJ has not been given control of this team and I think that's part of the problem. How can Josh have such a leash on JJ and have another out there like a chicken with his head cut off and let him run wild with little or no consequences? I would have to think frustration set in with Joe yesterday, and I don't blame him. We should have one of the best PG/backup PG situations in the nation, but instead we play them together which I think screws up chemistry on this team while also making us too small at the 1 and 2.. then we also go small at the 3 and sometimes 4, so.. it is what it is, as some like to say.

And... I like Josh and want him to be hugely successful, and think he probably will be in time, but I would be awfully curious what a crafty veteran coach would/could do with this roster.

very good post. some really good points.

(01-05-2014 12:31 PM)Joe1 Wrote:  

(01-05-2014 12:18 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(01-05-2014 12:09 PM)Joe1 Wrote:  

(01-05-2014 11:59 AM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(01-05-2014 11:14 AM)Joe1 Wrote:  this is silly to think Joe wasn't playing hard. while Joe wasn't playing hard he still managed to out score Dixon and Geron. Joe needs to stay on the floor in order for us to win, he is way to valuable. He shot 6 for 13. He should stay on the floor, him being on the floor gives us the best chance to win.

If you can't tell that Joe wasn't playing hard yesterday just go back and watch the south Florida game where he was limited because of fouls and then go watch yesterday's game again. There is a major difference in the way he played yesterday from how he played at USF.

I'll even give you an example from yesterday. There was a sequence layer in the second yesterday where Joe just stood in the corner and let the other guards just pass it and take a terrible shot. At first glance I thought they just weren't giving Joe the ball then I went back and watched it over and Joe didn't make an effort to come get the ball or get open. That was how Joe played against Oklahoma St the first time. If you remember in that game Joe had a nice stretch where he was able to get to the hole for easy buckets, but then as soon as they started denying him the ball he eventually sopped trying to get the ball

I'm sorry, but when Joe plays like that he doesn't give us any advantage while on the court. Also don't comeback with Dixon never passed or the other guards just took quick shots. This is Joe's team I know it, you know it, we all know it, the team knows it. With that being the case Joe needs to come get the ball on the offensive end, work to get open, work to get the ball, and get back on defense.

I like Joe and one defended him so many times during his time at Memphis, but when he doesn't play hard ( working to get the ball) he hurts us more than he helps.

taking him out of the game is waving the white towel. you can not take your best player out of the game. the coach has to find a way to get out of him what he wants, not throw in the towel and get mad at him and sit him on the bench. call him over put your hands on both his shoulders and look him in his eyes and tell him "I need you, you got to help us, you are my guy, we cant win this with out you, ect." this is coaching this is getting the most out of a player, this is getting the most out of a bad situation. Dana Kirk was a master at it, Cal was awesome and still is at it. its reaching a guy with out creating divide. thus giving you and your team the BEST chance to win. I personally want to win. im not taking my best player out. punish him somewhere else. this is a people job. every player is different and has a different back ground. the great leaders can work with anyone.

Um dude even Cal would've benched Joe yesterday as soon as he saw he wasn't getting back on defense. I don't know how else to say this but Joe was hurting more than helping yesterday. He was letting his man by constantly on defense or letting his man beat him down the court.

As huge as we all know Cal is on defense Joe would've been on the bench in no time

I tried my best to explain. we will have to respectfully disagree. you seem to know about the game, I know I do. I have only been going since James Bradley days. again, the coach has to reach his players, especially the ones that will make or break his own butt. lastly, the issue you are speaking of applied to everyone out on the floor. time and time again I watch Dixon, Crawford, Johnson turn the ball over take piss poor shots and mostly never stay in front of the guy they are guarding. so, what you are saying applies to them all. Dixon by himself was killing us, yet stayed in the game. People in my section were screaming get Dixon out of the game. the same standards should apply to each player. piss poor play means come out. Calkins said it in this morning paper, there seems to be a double standard. but hey, im ok with you having your thoughts and opinion and please let me have mine and we can still get along.

The difference between those guys it's that they attacked they wanted the ball. Joe just didn't want the ball yesterday case in point his lack of effort to come get it.

Wow big dog you've been watching games a longer period. I have seen you defend Joe over the last few years even when he plays awful you think he is being mistreated. Joe did not play well and did not play hard yesterday even Jason Smith talked about it. I bet Joe would even say he didn't play well yesterday and needs to play harder

(01-05-2014 12:52 PM)Joe1 Wrote:  

(01-05-2014 12:49 PM)TigerBo Wrote:  

(01-05-2014 12:18 PM)dan o Wrote:  Maybe Joe was sick

Good teams must have one leader, a coach on the floor, ideally your PG. IMO.. Joe cannot accomplish this with another 6' guard on the floor running amuck. JJ has not been given control of this team and I think that's part of the problem. How can Josh have such a leash on JJ and have another out there like a chicken with his head cut off and let him run wild with little or no consequences? I would have to think frustration set in with Joe yesterday, and I don't blame him. We should have one of the best PG/backup PG situations in the nation, but instead we play them together which I think screws up chemistry on this team while also making us too small at the 1 and 2.. then we also go small at the 3 and sometimes 4, so.. it is what it is, as some like to say.

And... I like Josh and want him to be hugely successful, and think he probably will be in time, but I would be awfully curious what a crafty veteran coach would/could do with this roster.

very good post. some really good points.

That is complete crap. Pastner has already said this team goes as Joe goes. He has said that we are only as good as Joe and for us to be good Joe has to be good. I dint know what else you guys want him to say to make it clear to you that Joe is the guy. Joe played poor yesterday period. I don't care if he scored 13pts. He scored most of that in the first part of the first half. Dixon score 12 so not much difference except that Dixon wanted the ball.

Again I like Joe and have defended him a ton, but to take a line from remember the titans. If Joe wants to be a star he needs to give a star effort. Go whatever reason that effort just wasn't there yesterday.

If you want to know what I think I feel that he got frustrated that when he drove to the basket he thought he was getting fouled but wasn't getting called so he started to do what he has done his entire career which is disappear. Joe wants to be a leader and wants to be the guy then he can't play with the effort he gave yesterday.

You can talk all you want about Dixon and Geron, but every time they step out on the court they give maximum effort

(01-05-2014 12:49 PM)TigerBo Wrote:  

(01-05-2014 12:18 PM)dan o Wrote:  Maybe Joe was sick

Good teams must have one leader, a coach on the floor, ideally your PG. IMO.. Joe cannot accomplish this with another 6' guard on the floor running amuck. JJ has not been given control of this team and I think that's part of the problem. How can Josh have such a leash on JJ and have another out there like a chicken with his head cut off and let him run wild with little or no consequences? I would have to think frustration set in with Joe yesterday, and I don't blame him. We should have one of the best PG/backup PG situations in the nation, but instead we play them together which I think screws up chemistry on this team while also making us too small at the 1 and 2.. then we also go small at the 3 and sometimes 4, so.. it is what it is, as some like to say.

And... I like Josh and want him to be hugely successful, and think he probably will be in time, but I would be awfully curious what a crafty veteran coach would/could do with this roster.

I'm no veteran coach, but everyone that knows basketball, can see when you are being pushed around under the basket, players crashing the boards, and a very physical game down low, what you need is size. Four guards may work when you play a team that thinks they can run with you or that is not very quick. But all things being equal, size wins every time. Why does the NBA draft the biggest players? Ever seen an NBA game with four little guys running around jacking up bricks or getting their shots swatted?
Cronin just showed every team in America that all you have to do to beat Memphis is play your biggest five guys, throw it toward the rim, and crash the boards for the tip. Memphis will have nobody at the rim to stop you.
I like our team and I like Josh. But when something is not working I would expect adjustments. It worries me that post game Josh is blaming the guard play for the team being out muscled.

(01-05-2014 12:14 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(01-05-2014 10:26 AM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  

(01-05-2014 01:46 AM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(01-05-2014 12:22 AM)Tiger46 Wrote:  Austin was out muscled a bit today, but sitting him on the bench isn't going to fix that. He needs to play. If we were playing a true center, PF and SF, he would get more help and be more productive.

Austin hasn't produced enough lately to warrant more playing time. This is a production type game. It's great that he blocks shots, but when he doesn't rebound he isn't much use.

For example today Cincy killed us on the offensive glass in the first half where Nichols played all his minutes. Now in the second half with Pellom playing the most we reversed the offensive glass woes. I like Nichols but he his majorly struggling right now. I honestly think it might be good to let him see the game at the start from the bench and then come in and ready to go to work.


Another thing everyone knew coming into the year we were going to live and die with the for guards, but it seems the majority are shocked when we don't play with a natural lineup. The four guards are the strength of the team we play to it it's that simple. So when they play bad we look really bad but when they play well we look really good. Other than two games they have played well.

I still say this team goes as Joe goes

I agree with Tiger46 that playing a true 5, 4, and a TRUE 3, would vastly help the frontcourt and the overall team.

Opposing teams knew little about Austin until they saw what he could do in Orlando. Now they are fronting & doubling him the entire game. Put in Nick King and he would either help free up Austin +/Shaq/Pellom/Big Dom, or find himself open to attack the basket or dish. The other plus is King will hit the glass. Iverson and Wilson can help too.

Austin has hit the wall? Shaq played well in the beginning last year when he was in with Tarik. Shaq hit the wall when we went 1-4 and he was the only true big in the game.

Also, I wasn’t a fan of living or dying with the 4 guards. We had 7 new cleared players so I knew we had other options. Again, Austin & Shaq played very well in Orlando with Shaq being MVP. Without them we probably don’t get past LSU. So what happens when our guards are off, just throw in the towel?

Sorry. Balanced teams win big games, get good seeds, and roll in March.

While I agree balanced teams are better there are always exceptions. Villanova being the most recent exception. I believe it was the '05/'06 season they played with for guards and everyone thought Wright was insane and that it wasn't going to work. Well they lost the games ask year and made it to the elite 8.

It's not conventional but it can work. I am fine with living and dying written these guards because they are the strength of the team. By playing a normal style and lineup we eliminate our advantage that we have with playing the guards or four guards.

The problem is right now we aren't sporting well at all from three. Well all teams are going to do is sag in the paint to take away the easy buckets and make is hot outside shots. Until we start hitting them this is going to be the result in some games.

Most freshman hit a wall is natural. Ross hit one whole he was here, Tyreke hit one whole he was here, and Austin has hit one now. He will be fine and will help us, but right now he is getting pushed around in the post

ONE recent example is all you have about a 4 guard lineup working. 3 of those guards got drafted and 2 are still playng in the NBA. Those guards were way more skilled and were tenacious rebounders. Unfair comparison IMO

(01-05-2014 01:27 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(01-05-2014 12:52 PM)Joe1 Wrote:  

(01-05-2014 12:49 PM)TigerBo Wrote:  

(01-05-2014 12:18 PM)dan o Wrote:  Maybe Joe was sick

Good teams must have one leader, a coach on the floor, ideally your PG. IMO.. Joe cannot accomplish this with another 6' guard on the floor running amuck. JJ has not been given control of this team and I think that's part of the problem. How can Josh have such a leash on JJ and have another out there like a chicken with his head cut off and let him run wild with little or no consequences? I would have to think frustration set in with Joe yesterday, and I don't blame him. We should have one of the best PG/backup PG situations in the nation, but instead we play them together which I think screws up chemistry on this team while also making us too small at the 1 and 2.. then we also go small at the 3 and sometimes 4, so.. it is what it is, as some like to say.

And... I like Josh and want him to be hugely successful, and think he probably will be in time, but I would be awfully curious what a crafty veteran coach would/could do with this roster.

very good post. some really good points.

That is complete crap. Pastner has already said this team goes as Joe goes. He has said that we are only as good as Joe and for us to be good Joe has to be good. I dint know what else you guys want him to say to make it clear to you that Joe is the guy. Joe played poor yesterday period. I don't care if he scored 13pts. He scored most of that in the first part of the first half. Dixon score 12 so not much difference except that Dixon wanted the ball.

Again I like Joe and have defended him a ton, but to take a line from remember the titans. If Joe wants to be a star he needs to give a star effort. Go whatever reason that effort just wasn't there yesterday.

If you want to know what I think I feel that he got frustrated that when he drove to the basket he thought he was getting fouled but wasn't getting called so he started to do what he has done his entire career which is disappear. Joe wants to be a leader and wants to be the guy then he can't play with the effort he gave yesterday.

You can talk all you want about Dixon and Geron, but every time they step out on the court they give maximum effort

this is total crap. why don't we take the best player on the team and take him out of the starting lineup and give him big dom minutes. maybe then you would be happy. playing like crap and playing hard still means you play like crap. wild shots, air balls that land out of bounds, dribbling off your knee out of bounds, throwing it away, ect. doesn't mean you get to stay on the floor all because certain folks proclaim so n so is playing real hard. you are full of it.

(01-05-2014 12:14 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(01-05-2014 10:26 AM)BealeStreetTiger Wrote:  

(01-05-2014 01:46 AM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(01-05-2014 12:22 AM)Tiger46 Wrote:  Austin was out muscled a bit today, but sitting him on the bench isn't going to fix that. He needs to play. If we were playing a true center, PF and SF, he would get more help and be more productive.

Austin hasn't produced enough lately to warrant more playing time. This is a production type game. It's great that he blocks shots, but when he doesn't rebound he isn't much use.

For example today Cincy killed us on the offensive glass in the first half where Nichols played all his minutes. Now in the second half with Pellom playing the most we reversed the offensive glass woes. I like Nichols but he his majorly struggling right now. I honestly think it might be good to let him see the game at the start from the bench and then come in and ready to go to work.


Another thing everyone knew coming into the year we were going to live and die with the for guards, but it seems the majority are shocked when we don't play with a natural lineup. The four guards are the strength of the team we play to it it's that simple. So when they play bad we look really bad but when they play well we look really good. Other than two games they have played well.

I still say this team goes as Joe goes

I agree with Tiger46 that playing a true 5, 4, and a TRUE 3, would vastly help the frontcourt and the overall team.

Opposing teams knew little about Austin until they saw what he could do in Orlando. Now they are fronting & doubling him the entire game. Put in Nick King and he would either help free up Austin +/Shaq/Pellom/Big Dom, or find himself open to attack the basket or dish. The other plus is King will hit the glass. Iverson and Wilson can help too.

Austin has hit the wall? Shaq played well in the beginning last year when he was in with Tarik. Shaq hit the wall when we went 1-4 and he was the only true big in the game.

Also, I wasn’t a fan of living or dying with the 4 guards. We had 7 new cleared players so I knew we had other options. Again, Austin & Shaq played very well in Orlando with Shaq being MVP. Without them we probably don’t get past LSU. So what happens when our guards are off, just throw in the towel?

Sorry. Balanced teams win big games, get good seeds, and roll in March.

While I agree balanced teams are better there are always exceptions. Villanova being the most recent exception. I believe it was the '05/'06 season they played with for guards and everyone thought Wright was insane and that it wasn't going to work. Well they lost the games ask year and made it to the elite 8.

It's not conventional but it can work. I am fine with living and dying written these guards because they are the strength of the team. By playing a normal style and lineup we eliminate our advantage that we have with playing the guards or four guards.

The problem is right now we aren't sporting well at all from three. Well all teams are going to do is sag in the paint to take away the easy buckets and make is hot outside shots. Until we start hitting them this is going to be the result in some games.

Most freshman hit a wall is natural. Ross hit one whole he was here, Tyreke hit one whole he was here, and Austin has hit one now. He will be fine and will help us, but right now he is getting pushed around in the post

As has already been stated Villanova had “Pro” guards that season which isn’t the norm. But all you have to do is ask one of our current Tigers.

Michael Dixon’s 2011-12 Missouri team was guard centered, highly ranked, and won their conference. What happened when they got to the dance?

They lost to Norfolk State in the first game.

BTW teams who live or die by the 3 usually end up biting the dust in the end. We have way too much other talent to rely on guards to determine if we win or not.

(01-05-2014 01:00 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(01-05-2014 12:31 PM)Joe1 Wrote:  

(01-05-2014 12:18 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(01-05-2014 12:09 PM)Joe1 Wrote:  

(01-05-2014 11:59 AM)tigers0830 Wrote:  If you can't tell that Joe wasn't playing hard yesterday just go back and watch the south Florida game where he was limited because of fouls and then go watch yesterday's game again. There is a major difference in the way he played yesterday from how he played at USF.

I'll even give you an example from yesterday. There was a sequence layer in the second yesterday where Joe just stood in the corner and let the other guards just pass it and take a terrible shot. At first glance I thought they just weren't giving Joe the ball then I went back and watched it over and Joe didn't make an effort to come get the ball or get open. That was how Joe played against Oklahoma St the first time. If you remember in that game Joe had a nice stretch where he was able to get to the hole for easy buckets, but then as soon as they started denying him the ball he eventually sopped trying to get the ball

I'm sorry, but when Joe plays like that he doesn't give us any advantage while on the court. Also don't comeback with Dixon never passed or the other guards just took quick shots. This is Joe's team I know it, you know it, we all know it, the team knows it. With that being the case Joe needs to come get the ball on the offensive end, work to get open, work to get the ball, and get back on defense.

I like Joe and one defended him so many times during his time at Memphis, but when he doesn't play hard ( working to get the ball) he hurts us more than he helps.

taking him out of the game is waving the white towel. you can not take your best player out of the game. the coach has to find a way to get out of him what he wants, not throw in the towel and get mad at him and sit him on the bench. call him over put your hands on both his shoulders and look him in his eyes and tell him "I need you, you got to help us, you are my guy, we cant win this with out you, ect." this is coaching this is getting the most out of a player, this is getting the most out of a bad situation. Dana Kirk was a master at it, Cal was awesome and still is at it. its reaching a guy with out creating divide. thus giving you and your team the BEST chance to win. I personally want to win. im not taking my best player out. punish him somewhere else. this is a people job. every player is different and has a different back ground. the great leaders can work with anyone.

Um dude even Cal would've benched Joe yesterday as soon as he saw he wasn't getting back on defense. I don't know how else to say this but Joe was hurting more than helping yesterday. He was letting his man by constantly on defense or letting his man beat him down the court.

As huge as we all know Cal is on defense Joe would've been on the bench in no time

I tried my best to explain. we will have to respectfully disagree. you seem to know about the game, I know I do. I have only been going since James Bradley days. again, the coach has to reach his players, especially the ones that will make or break his own butt. lastly, the issue you are speaking of applied to everyone out on the floor. time and time again I watch Dixon, Crawford, Johnson turn the ball over take piss poor shots and mostly never stay in front of the guy they are guarding. so, what you are saying applies to them all. Dixon by himself was killing us, yet stayed in the game. People in my section were screaming get Dixon out of the game. the same standards should apply to each player. piss poor play means come out. Calkins said it in this morning paper, there seems to be a double standard. but hey, im ok with you having your thoughts and opinion and please let me have mine and we can still get along.

The difference between those guys it's that they attacked they wanted the ball. Joe just didn't want the ball yesterday case in point his lack of effort to come get it.

Wow big dog you've been watching games a longer period. I have seen you defend Joe over the last few years even when he plays awful you think he is being mistreated. Joe did not play well and did not play hard yesterday even Jason Smith talked about it. I bet Joe would even say he didn't play well yesterday and needs to play harder

you are Damn right I defend Joe Jackson, so does Mr. Draper (not the walk on player). you are damn right I think he was and sometimes still is mistreated, so does Larry Finch's brother, whom I spoke to right after the game. he didn't come up to me and start telling me a bunch of crap about how this is all on Joe for not playing Hard. No, he said some stuff I don't want to type. that would be for him to say. saying the difference between those guys and Joe are they attacked and they wanted the ball, does not make you right about this. they PLAYED like DOG CRAP, so saying that they were out there attacking and playing hard doesn't give them the right to stay on the floor when you are stinking up the gym. Joe had 11 points in the first half. if coached up right he could have ended up with 20 easy, but NO. you give Josh a pass and you give Dixon a pass and you give Johnson a pass, they all graded out an F. but since they were trying hard lets give them a pass and throw Joe away. classic. at the end of the day, Joe will end up no worse than 7th all time scorer at the school, he will have 2 degrees but lets pound on him and lets let the players who wont have any of those things do what the hell they want. beautiful

As has already been stated Villanova had “Pro” guards that season which isn’t the norm. But all you have to do is ask one of our current Tigers.

Michael Dixon’s 2011-12 Missouri team was guard centered, highly ranked, and won their conference. What happened when they got to the dance?

They lost to Norfolk State in the first game.

BTW teams who live or die by the 3 usually end up biting the dust in the end. We have way too much other talent to rely on guards to determine if we win or not.
[/quote]

Bam.. Shut er down.

Coach messed up big time yesterday. He better figure out what our bread and butter is. JJ and Austin should have had more minutes. Oh and forget this four guard crap.