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New OC for Owl football
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #301
RE: New OC for Owl football
(01-20-2014 08:41 PM)Vegas Owl Wrote:  
(01-20-2014 07:13 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-19-2014 11:05 PM)Vegas Owl Wrote:  Rice has "macro" problems, no doubt. But this writer's observation (and others apparently) is that football needs to be "gotten right" as far as the athletic dept finances go. Winning consistently, far above expectations, is the path to putting people into the stadium, and starting to right the financial ship. So there are those of us that are looking outside the box, because the inside the box thinking hasn't gotten us there in the last 20 years.

But that is not the "Rice way." At least it hasn't been. And even the best Dr. K can do is not going to change that overnight. And it's at least 40 years, not 20. The last 20 have actually been an improvement over the prior 20.

If you don't know where you are going, the path of least resistance will get you there.

I know the problem has existed for longer than 20 years, but I did not want to overstate my case. I've only been a donating Owl Club member for about 20 years. I'd hate for someone to jump on my words for some "overreach".

Fair enough, but trust me, you wouldn't be overreaching.

What's really amazing is how much better the last 20 years have been than the 20 that preceded them. Until Ranger Rick, we were down to about 3 or 4 truly head scratcher, "WTF could they possibly have been thinking," moves per year. That was pretty close to the weekly output from about 1968 to 1988.
01-20-2014 11:54 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #302
RE: New OC for Owl football
(01-20-2014 08:41 PM)Vegas Owl Wrote:  
(01-20-2014 07:13 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-19-2014 11:05 PM)Vegas Owl Wrote:  Rice has "macro" problems, no doubt. But this writer's observation (and others apparently) is that football needs to be "gotten right" as far as the athletic dept finances go. Winning consistently, far above expectations, is the path to putting people into the stadium, and starting to right the financial ship. So there are those of us that are looking outside the box, because the inside the box thinking hasn't gotten us there in the last 20 years.

But that is not the "Rice way." At least it hasn't been. And even the best Dr. K can do is not going to change that overnight. And it's at least 40 years, not 20. The last 20 have actually been an improvement over the prior 20.

If you don't know where you are going, the path of least resistance will get you there.

I know the problem has existed for longer than 20 years, but I did not want to overstate my case. I've only been a donating Owl Club member for about 20 years. I'd hate for someone to jump on my words for some "overreach".

Vegas is right, and the last 20 or 40 years do not matter. what matters is to start doing it correctly NOW, and making that the new
Rice way. This is the key: "Winning consistently, far above expectations, is the path to putting people into the stadium, and starting to right the financial ship."

I don't care if you have been a contributor for only the last 20 minutes, if you're right, you're right, and I don't see much use in comparing who has the biggest, uh, tax deduction.

So when you are through thinking outside the box and have some ideas, let's hear them.
(This post was last modified: 01-21-2014 12:09 AM by OptimisticOwl.)
01-21-2014 12:08 AM
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ruowls Offline
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Post: #303
RE: New OC for Owl football
Thanks to everyone for the posts. Obviously, if I want a job at Rice, I need to go to Kansas first (that's a joke).

Both Chad Morris and Gus Malzahn went from HS coach to college OC without having been a GA or position coach. Interestingly, Malzahn was a receiver at Arkansas in 84 and 85 (same years I was at Rice with both in the SWC). If you have the talent, you have the talent. I'd take a pay cut to give Rice something of value that I have. However, I'd be nuts if I gave up everything. How many of you would give up a job you like that pays very well for a job that pays nothing?

Interestingly, I have pretty strong similarities to a current Rice coach. We grew up about 30 miles apart and had contact with many of the same coaches in the area. We were just about a decade apart. A JC quarterback teammate of his is a friend of mine now and someone I coached against in the HS ranks.
01-21-2014 01:19 AM
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d1owls4life Offline
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Post: #304
RE: New OC for Owl football
(01-21-2014 01:19 AM)ruowls Wrote:  Thanks to everyone for the posts. Obviously, if I want a job at Rice, I need to go to Kansas first (that's a joke).

Both Chad Morris and Gus Malzahn went from HS coach to college OC without having been a GA or position coach. Interestingly, Malzahn was a receiver at Arkansas in 84 and 85 (same years I was at Rice with both in the SWC). If you have the talent, you have the talent. I'd take a pay cut to give Rice something of value that I have. However, I'd be nuts if I gave up everything. How many of you would give up a job you like that pays very well for a job that pays nothing?

Interestingly, I have pretty strong similarities to a current Rice coach. We grew up about 30 miles apart and had contact with many of the same coaches in the area. We were just about a decade apart. A JC quarterback teammate of his is a friend of mine now and someone I coached against in the HS ranks.

True about Morris and Malzahn, but both had been high school coaches for about 15 years before jumping to college. I didn't get the impression you had been a high school coach that long, but I obviously could be wrong.

And yeah, I don't blame you. I wouldn't give up a job I love like that either.
(This post was last modified: 01-21-2014 07:57 AM by d1owls4life.)
01-21-2014 07:56 AM
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MemOwl Offline
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Post: #305
RE: New OC for Owl football
One thing that is floating in other threads about McGuffie and Willson/McDonald but hasn't landed explicitly here in this OC thread:

We had elite (for CUSA) skill talent on our 2012 team but for the QB position (Willson, McDonald, McGuffie, Ross, J Taylor), yet we ranked 5th in scoring offense, 4th in total offense, and went 6-6.

I can't find the dead horse emoticon, but I guess I need it. I just don't see that STAY THE COURSE; ALL IS WELL is the summary I would give of the Rice offensive scheme and coaching staff.
01-21-2014 04:04 PM
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d1owls4life Offline
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Post: #306
RE: New OC for Owl football
(01-21-2014 04:04 PM)MemOwl Wrote:  One thing that is floating in other threads about McGuffie and Willson/McDonald but hasn't landed explicitly here in this OC thread:

We had elite (for CUSA) skill talent on our 2012 team but for the QB position (Willson, McDonald, McGuffie, Ross, J Taylor), yet we ranked 5th in scoring offense, 4th in total offense, and went 6-6.

I can't find the dead horse emoticon, but I guess I need it. I just don't see that STAY THE COURSE; ALL IS WELL is the summary I would give of the Rice offensive scheme and coaching staff.

Understand your point and agree there was some nice skill talent there, but to be accurate, Luke and Vance were both hurt in 2012. Luke was never the same after his ankle injury and Vance missed 3 regular season games with injury.

41st nationally in scoring offense, 44th in total offense.
01-21-2014 04:14 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #307
RE: New OC for Owl football
Editing to focus on a few points

(01-20-2014 02:09 PM)ruowls Wrote:  As you go up in coaching levels, the perception is that sophistication increases. The "system" may become more sophisticated but the dynamics of the game remain constant. So, one has basically developed a more convoluted way of dealing with a fixed issue.

Bingo. And demonstrable increased sophistication requires more money, unless you have an 'in'.

Quote:What is the one thing a defense can never take away? An offense's ability to think. Therefore, if that is what you do best, the defense can never take away what you do best.

Something where Rice should ALWAYS have a recruiting advantage. I'm not saying other schools don't have some smart kids... I'm saying that players who CHOOSE the tougher academic path by playing at Rice (whether their alternative is UH in the AAC, MSU in the SEC, N Tx in CUSA or Sam Houston in the Lone Star) have demonstrated a superior RELIANCE on and willingness to focus upon their intelligence. Further, I think our alums and fans, not only of Rice but those who simply share our academic interests would enjoy and appreciate a more 'academic' discussion about sports in these terms. When Duke somewhat sells-out their academics in basketball to put a better product on the court, it doesn't really attract people from say U-Chicago to Duke... but when Rice USES their academics to put a better product on the field, it might.

Quote:I'll use a play from last night's Seahawk-49er game as another illustration.

The called play had no one in the flat to hold the flat coverage and the QB and receiver didn't recognize this.

If the receiver had just looked in as he released, he could have seen the flat defender flying out and then extend his route vertically and create a throwing lane further inside instead of doing what he did. This is the problem with teaching football. The emphasis is on the play and what route you run. The emphasis isn't on the elements that you are attacking.

You don't have to change schemes or even nomenclature to be more effective. Honestly, I could come in and learn the Rice playbook in about half a day. I could use their same nomenclature and plays and still make it a more productive offense. The problem is that most coaches don't think my way. The emphasis is on the plays and their adjustments as opposed to emphasizing the basic elements of a defense and how you defeat these.

Leaving these together because they make my point. You don't need to change the plays whatsoever. The only necessary difference between Reagan or RU at 'OC' is how the play is run... whether the ball is thrown 7 yards down field and to the sideline or 11 yards down field and closer to the numbers. That, plus the increased probability of success based on putting the players in better spatial relationships.

My point being that it isn't the play being called that MUST change (though it certainly CAN be)... but if we focus on the elements being attacked and change that one part, then the effectiveness of the offense changes dramatically.

[/quote]An OC's real job is to unify the elements into a cohesive package for the players to understand and exploit.

I have an honest question. How many here would trust me to be the OC at Rice? I know I don't have the resume for it. However, I know I have the intelligence for it.
[/quote]

While that is OFTEN the OC's job, is it necessarily? Of course you know I trust your abilities... but for those that don't... you've already (and often on here) taken an existing play-call and adjustment and verbally demonstrated a better adjustment that would have been more effective. If this took us from say a 50% completion rate to a 60% one (not an impossible number) it is likely that lots of OTHER details change as well. Instead of 30% on 3rd and 5+'s, maybe we are 40%. Instead of 60/40 TD/FG we're 70/30. That alone would change our effectiveness and competitiveness... WITHOUT necessarily changing one single play-call. This sounds to me as if it could be done by the passing game coordinator or even WR coach. Now I fully believe that you have the skills to call the plays as well... but Bailiff obviously likes to rely on people he knows well, even if they lack the sort of complex understanding that would really help him out...

In no small part (imo) because a big part of David's charge to the OC is to help make his defense more effective by (among other things) controlling the clock, even sometimes it appears at the risk of completing fewer passes and scoring somewhat less.

If the passing game were more effective, David could throw less and run more. I think he'd like that a lot.
(This post was last modified: 01-21-2014 06:11 PM by Hambone10.)
01-21-2014 06:10 PM
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GoodOwl Offline
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Post: #308
RE: New OC for Owl football
(01-08-2014 02:40 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(01-08-2014 02:37 PM)At Ease Wrote:  This is going to be a long offseason.

C'mon, we've got to get creative in how we complain now. We won a conference title and don't appear poised to fall off of a cliff next year. Based on recent history, this is pretty much uncharted territory.

Okay. I just hope we (read: DB and staff of whoever it is) learn from what happened to us in the Liberty Bowl to help with next season and beyond in lifting the program. Hambone made a comment that this particular loss may turn out to be a blessing long-term by exposing, or rather, helping us measure where we are.

Based on what I saw from the stands, it wasn't in the cards for us to win on that day. You had their QB lose his mother and he played a hell of a game, he really did. Hat's off to MSU they played us great on that day. But to me, the key was MSU's drive on their second score that wore our D out (due to their increased size/physicality, perhaps?) I left to get a soda and hot dogs for my son and I and stood in line longer than I anticipated. When I came back, we looked flat. I could hear the crowd and cowbells at the concession stand, and I saw the score when I returned.

How's that for being more creative? I think you're right, if we expect the coaches to take a step up in their performance/achievement, we have to step up our complaints to be a bit more sophisticated. But overall, I'm okay with the loss. Would have liked to have won, but hope it takes us forward in the long run. The MSU fans were pretty decent and we enjoyed going to the game.

BTW- I am thoroughly enjoying reading the RUOWLS and other's football-centric explanations and evaluations in this thread. I don't pretend to understand them all, but they make me think about the reality that football is more complicated than we fans sometimes think, and I tend to forget that a lot myself.
01-22-2014 06:10 PM
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GoodOwl Offline
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Post: #309
RE: New OC for Owl football
(01-20-2014 06:29 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(01-20-2014 02:14 PM)d1owls4life Wrote:  
(01-20-2014 02:09 PM)ruowls Wrote:  I have an honest question. How many here would trust me to be the OC at Rice? I know I don't have the resume for it. However, I know I have the intelligence for it.

I would love for you to have a shot on that staff.

I'm in, also, but be warned that D1 and I (along with Ham and Doc) may be your only friends the first time one of your wide receivers drops a pass. Well, probably Rick, too.

Buddy, you could still be co-OC with RUOwls and institute your earlier stated policy of removing any unsuccessful plays from the playbook to appease the board!

I'd vote for RUOwls to be somewhere on the staff, even if not OC.
01-22-2014 06:31 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #310
RE: New OC for Owl football
(01-22-2014 06:31 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  
(01-20-2014 06:29 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(01-20-2014 02:14 PM)d1owls4life Wrote:  
(01-20-2014 02:09 PM)ruowls Wrote:  I have an honest question. How many here would trust me to be the OC at Rice? I know I don't have the resume for it. However, I know I have the intelligence for it.

I would love for you to have a shot on that staff.

I'm in, also, but be warned that D1 and I (along with Ham and Doc) may be your only friends the first time one of your wide receivers drops a pass. Well, probably Rick, too.

Buddy, you could still be co-OC with RUOwls and institute your earlier stated policy of removing any unsuccessful plays from the playbook to appease the board!

I'd vote for RUOwls to be somewhere on the staff, even if not OC.


Buddy would be "quality control"
01-22-2014 07:03 PM
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GoodOwl Offline
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Post: #311
RE: New OC for Owl football
(01-22-2014 07:03 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(01-22-2014 06:31 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  Buddy, you could still be co-OC with RUOwls and institute your earlier stated policy of removing any unsuccessful plays from the playbook to appease the board!

I'd vote for RUOwls to be somewhere on the staff, even if not OC.


Buddy would be "quality control"

LOL!02-13-banana
01-22-2014 07:51 PM
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RiceDoc Offline
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Post: #312
RE: New OC for Owl football
(01-22-2014 07:03 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(01-22-2014 06:31 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  
(01-20-2014 06:29 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(01-20-2014 02:14 PM)d1owls4life Wrote:  
(01-20-2014 02:09 PM)ruowls Wrote:  I have an honest question. How many here would trust me to be the OC at Rice? I know I don't have the resume for it. However, I know I have the intelligence for it.

I would love for you to have a shot on that staff.

I'm in, also, but be warned that D1 and I (along with Ham and Doc) may be your only friends the first time one of your wide receivers drops a pass. Well, probably Rick, too.

Buddy, you could still be co-OC with RUOwls and institute your earlier stated policy of removing any unsuccessful plays from the playbook to appease the board!

I'd vote for RUOwls to be somewhere on the staff, even if not OC.


Buddy would be "quality control"

Is that like "guy in charge of making sure all receivers have more stick 'em on them than Lester Hayes ever used"? 05-stirthepot
01-22-2014 08:23 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #313
RE: New OC for Owl football
(01-22-2014 06:31 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  Buddy, you could still be co-OC with RUOwls and institute your earlier stated policy of removing any unsuccessful plays from the playbook to appease the board!

I think appeasement will carry me only so far, as I think this board is impossible to please.

Well, to start with, the QB would be under center for every play, and to minimize mistakes, they would all be QB sneaks.

We would fake punt every time we were outside our 30. Catch 'em by surprise every time, I bet.

To paraphrase Darrell Royal, if you play from the shotgun, there are dozens of things that can happen and all of them are bad or worse.

Seriously, I have seen Bailiff deliver things that the Parliament had been clamoring for, and get dissed for it. More downfield passing, less, more first down passes, less please, yada, yada, yada. I have come to the conclusion that the only person on here who would make a good OC could double as the team doctor. I have also come to the conclusion that I would not wish the HC, OC, or DC jobs on my worst enemy.

As for quality control, I don't know what that is, but make me an offer.
(This post was last modified: 01-23-2014 02:01 AM by OptimisticOwl.)
01-23-2014 01:59 AM
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Tomball Owl Offline
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Post: #314
RE: New OC for Owl football
(01-22-2014 08:23 PM)RiceDoc Wrote:  
(01-22-2014 07:03 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(01-22-2014 06:31 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  
(01-20-2014 06:29 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(01-20-2014 02:14 PM)d1owls4life Wrote:  I would love for you to have a shot on that staff.

I'm in, also, but be warned that D1 and I (along with Ham and Doc) may be your only friends the first time one of your wide receivers drops a pass. Well, probably Rick, too.

Buddy, you could still be co-OC with RUOwls and institute your earlier stated policy of removing any unsuccessful plays from the playbook to appease the board!

I'd vote for RUOwls to be somewhere on the staff, even if not OC.


Buddy would be "quality control"

Is that like "guy in charge of making sure all receivers have more stick 'em on them than Lester Hayes ever used"? 05-stirthepot

Quality Control is shorter, but yes!
01-23-2014 10:11 AM
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ruowls Offline
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Post: #315
RE: New OC for Owl football
(01-23-2014 01:59 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(01-22-2014 06:31 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  Buddy, you could still be co-OC with RUOwls and institute your earlier stated policy of removing any unsuccessful plays from the playbook to appease the board!

I think appeasement will carry me only so far, as I think this board is impossible to please.

Well, to start with, the QB would be under center for every play, and to minimize mistakes, they would all be QB sneaks.
We would fake punt every time we were outside our 30. Catch 'em by surprise every time, I bet.

To paraphrase Darrell Royal, if you play from the shotgun, there are dozens of things that can happen and all of them are bad or worse.

Seriously, I have seen Bailiff deliver things that the Parliament had been clamoring for, and get dissed for it. More downfield passing, less, more first down passes, less please, yada, yada, yada. I have come to the conclusion that the only person on here who would make a good OC could double as the team doctor. I have also come to the conclusion that I would not wish the HC, OC, or DC jobs on my worst enemy.

As for quality control, I don't know what that is, but make me an offer.

Ah yes...The Tommy Maples 1978 Selma Bear offense. Good enough for 1-9. I also seem to recall someone fumbling and turning the ball over on a QB sneak this past year. If that's the case, AIR IT OUT!

Your quality control job is to enlighten everyone to the method of my madness thus proving my decsions to in fact be of high quality.
01-23-2014 12:06 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #316
RE: New OC for Owl football
(01-23-2014 12:06 PM)ruowls Wrote:  
(01-23-2014 01:59 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(01-22-2014 06:31 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  Buddy, you could still be co-OC with RUOwls and institute your earlier stated policy of removing any unsuccessful plays from the playbook to appease the board!

I think appeasement will carry me only so far, as I think this board is impossible to please.

Well, to start with, the QB would be under center for every play, and to minimize mistakes, they would all be QB sneaks.
We would fake punt every time we were outside our 30. Catch 'em by surprise every time, I bet.

To paraphrase Darrell Royal, if you play from the shotgun, there are dozens of things that can happen and all of them are bad or worse.

Seriously, I have seen Bailiff deliver things that the Parliament had been clamoring for, and get dissed for it. More downfield passing, less, more first down passes, less please, yada, yada, yada. I have come to the conclusion that the only person on here who would make a good OC could double as the team doctor. I have also come to the conclusion that I would not wish the HC, OC, or DC jobs on my worst enemy.

As for quality control, I don't know what that is, but make me an offer.

Ah yes...The Tommy Maples 1978 Selma Bear offense. Good enough for 1-9. I also seem to recall someone fumbling and turning the ball over on a QB sneak this past year. If that's the case, AIR IT OUT!

Your quality control job is to enlighten everyone to the method of my madness thus proving my decsions to in fact be of high quality.

I can do that, providing the money is right.
01-23-2014 05:21 PM
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Vegas Owl Offline
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Post: #317
RE: New OC for Owl football
(01-23-2014 12:06 PM)ruowls Wrote:  I also seem to recall someone fumbling and turning the ball over on a QB sneak this past year. If that's the case, AIR IT OUT!

Zing!!!! 04-rock
01-23-2014 10:29 PM
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RiceDad Offline
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Post: #318
RE: New OC for Owl football
Can we stop this thread? It seems to have lost its head!,
01-24-2014 01:24 AM
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Post: #319
RE: New OC for Owl football
Please
01-25-2014 12:42 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #320
RE: New OC for Owl football
Well, until we have a new OC to complain about can't we just have a little fun?
01-25-2014 11:58 AM
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