(01-03-2014 12:36 AM)olddawg Wrote:  

(01-02-2014 03:07 PM)JMU1985 Wrote:  So, it is not so much the coach but the school and the program? Can I make that transition with your statement? If so, I think it is mostly false. It is my experience that most organization succeed or fail based on current leadership. You can make the argument that the entire Alabama football tradition started with a coach named Bear Bryant. One man, at the lead, with a vision, making a difference. Keeping it going requires the same type of individual. There are dozens of programs waiting for a weakness on which to grab recruits and become the next Alabama. You are right in that Nick Saban has a lot of resources but he also makes a difference. Now, the real trick is finding someone with the same abilities/talent who does not command the same price tag as Nick and get them as the coach - risk/reward. Of course, then his price goes up. Ask UVA if they miss George Welsh. He built a program that ended with only two schools tied for having some number (I forget how many) consecutive 10 game winning seasons, Michigan and U of Virginia. That is amazing because historically those two schools and football don't belong together. The next coach did not have the same abilities. Now, three coaches removed and they can't win three games in a season and I don't think it is because of talent alone. Let us hope that Coach Withers is cut from the same cloth as George, Nick and other great football coaches.

Ask UVA how they liked George Welsh's 1st home game (JMU 21-UVA 17)

Yes, I was at that game. What a game. That one was almost the Gary Clark show.

let's not forget that Saban's BASE salary is only $245,000

http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...-extension

i'm not sure how that relates to professors at the university or the president, but i'm sure it's not the top salary and in line with other tenured members.

the rest of his salary comes from revenue directly raised by the football/athletics program and because of his efforts, as is the case for almost all athletics coaches.

if a chemistry professor or chinese religion professor can produce $73 million in net revenue for the school, I'm sure some external funds would be made available to that professor as well.

(01-04-2014 06:15 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  let's not forget that Saban's BASE salary is only $245,000

http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...-extension

i'm not sure how that relates to professors at the university or the president, but i'm sure it's not the top salary and in line with other tenured members.

the rest of his salary comes from revenue directly raised by the football/athletics program and because of his efforts, as is the case for almost all athletics coaches.

if a chemistry professor or chinese religion professor can produce $73 million in net revenue for the school, I'm sure some external funds would be made available to that professor as well.

EXACTLY!!

And let's not forget the relative job security enjoyed by a tenured professor, as opposed to the stressful, turnstile professional life of a football coach. A professor might get away with trashing his university in a crybaby hit piece, but I guarantee you a college football coach won't.

(01-03-2014 08:56 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  So you're alright with a guy insinuating that kids are committing sexual assault when it simply hasn't happened? That kind of **** has to go.

I'm not alright with it but I know that 1) the article won't affect what JMU does with regard to a conference move. 2) As Horn has pointed out, the faculty that would vote no to a 1A move love this prof and his article and the attention it has gotten.

After today, this thread drops off and JMU is one day closer to 1A. The prof goes back to educating pacific rim business travels about religion and culture on the Asian continent which I expect he does well...As much as I disagree with this prof, I like that there are places (University) that allow and encourage all types to address all issues for thought and discussion.

In think the real problem with the piece is that it was neither well reasoned nor well formulated. It was a poor representation of his school in that he published a piece under the JMU brand that showed an incredible lack of critical thinking from a professor in a critical thinking discipline. This was something of the quality that a high-school journalism student might produce. If this professor can't do any better this piece, he should refrain from all future attempts at being published.

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It's not just the ridiculously stupid sexual assault comparison he made but he comes in here and becomes more ridiculous with other awful comparisons:

"Look, here's the issue: Sports are fine, and you can learn great things from playing them. But you can also learn about business and teamwork working at a casino. That doesn't mean universities should be attached to giant casinos and the highest paid employees on campus should be the owners of the casinos. This remains the case even if alumni *LOVE* their casinos and the casinos bring in tons of money."

This is mind-boggling stupidity at it's finest from an adult. It's the kind of debate tactic that a child might try to use.

(01-04-2014 02:01 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  In think the real problem with the piece is that it was neither well reasoned nor well formulated. It was a poor representation of his school in that he published a piece under the JMU brand that showed an incredible lack of critical thinking from a professor in a critical thinking discipline. This was something of the quality that a high-school journalism student might produce. If this professor can't do any better this piece, he should refrain from all future attempts at being published.

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk 4

God, I hate to agree with a Butterfly fan, I feel dirty now, but this is pretty much where I am as well. It reads like a 4 a.m. rant fueled by some kind of personal animus towards athletes, athletics or simply sports.

To make a charge like he did that simply says- more athletes (specifically more Football players) will bring in more crime is not only a cheap shot, it is intellectually lazy and simply picking the low hanging fruit. There's no analysis there, no respect for what the vast majority of these athletes do in the wider community and certainly no real basis in fact. It smacks instead of a "feeling" he may have, or based on "something I may have read once".

I'd love to see what empirical evidence he has to back up this claim, and if he has none then it should be retracted. It is about as disrespectful a notion as one could put forth, and taken further could lead to questions about who exactly and what population specifically is he referring to?

Careless at best. That it was "published" by Slate is a whole 'nother issue...

(01-04-2014 02:27 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(01-04-2014 02:01 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  In think the real problem with the piece is that it was neither well reasoned nor well formulated. It was a poor representation of his school in that he published a piece under the JMU brand that showed an incredible lack of critical thinking from a professor in a critical thinking discipline. This was something of the quality that a high-school journalism student might produce. If this professor can't do any better this piece, he should refrain from all future attempts at being published.

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk 4

God, I hate to agree with a Butterfly fan, I feel dirty now, but this is pretty much where I am as well. It reads like a 4 a.m. rant fueled by some kind of personal animus towards athletes, athletics or simply sports.

To make a charge like he did that simply says- more athletes (specifically more Football players) will bring in more crime is not only a cheap shot, it is intellectually lazy and simply picking the low hanging fruit. There's no analysis there, no respect for what the vast majority of these athletes do in the wider community and certainly no real basis in fact. It smacks instead of a "feeling" he may have, or based on "something I may have read once".

I'd love to see what empirical evidence he has to back up this claim, and if he has none then it should be retracted. It is about as disrespectful a notion as one could put forth, and taken further could lead to questions about who exactly and what population specifically is he referring to?

Careless at best. That it was "published" by Slate is a whole 'nother issue...

Welcome to the dark side. Haha.

"Intellectually lazy" is probably the best possible description for the article.

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk 4

His line about "endemic sexism and sexual assault" is borderline defamation to our football student-athletes. He went to a national online publication and published that without evidence or support in a rather reckless manner. The rest of it is fine, but that crossed the line. If he receives any heat, it should be for that line alone.

(01-04-2014 04:46 PM)JMUDuke2002 Wrote:  His line about "endemic sexism and sexual assault" is borderline defamation to our football student-athletes. He went to a national online publication and published that without evidence or support in a rather reckless manner. The rest of it is fine, but that crossed the line. If he receives any heat, it should be for that line alone.

Here's the evidence of sexism and higher rates of sexual assault that prompted me to write that line. (There's more.) Read it and get back to me with your own evidence:

http://www.campussafetymagazine.com/Chan...Myths.aspx

http://www.humankinetics.com/excerpts/ex...d-violence

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment...en/280004/

http://www.ctpost.com/sports/article/Kev...950151.php

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.c...ug=1941170

http://www.campushealthandsafety.org/aud.../athletes/

http://www.motherjones.com/media/2013/12...is-winston

(01-04-2014 02:12 PM)JMUDuke25 Wrote:  It's not just the ridiculously stupid sexual assault comparison he made but he comes in here and becomes more ridiculous with other awful comparisons:

"Look, here's the issue: Sports are fine, and you can learn great things from playing them. But you can also learn about business and teamwork working at a casino. That doesn't mean universities should be attached to giant casinos and the highest paid employees on campus should be the owners of the casinos. This remains the case even if alumni *LOVE* their casinos and the casinos bring in tons of money."

This is mind-boggling stupidity at it's finest from an adult. It's the kind of debate tactic that a child might try to use.

Here's the evidence of sexism and higher rates of sexual assault that prompted me to write that line. Read it and get back to me with your own evidence:

http://www.campussafetymagazine.com/Chan...Myths.aspx

http://www.humankinetics.com/excerpts/ex...d-violence

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment...en/280004/

http://www.ctpost.com/sports/article/Kev...950151.php

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.c...ug=1941170

http://www.campushealthandsafety.org/aud.../athletes/

http://www.motherjones.com/media/2013/12...is-winston

(01-03-2014 08:30 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  He doesn't deserve a break. Some of the things he said....he just doesn't deserve anywhere close to a break. Any time you say some garbage like this, there is no break. I say get him the F off the campus.

Quote:Are they willing to stomach endemic sexism and the scourge of campus sexual assault?

Here's the evidence of sexism and higher rates of sexual assault that prompted me to write that line. Read it and get back to me with your own evidence:

http://www.campussafetymagazine.com/Chan...Myths.aspx

http://www.humankinetics.com/excerpts/ex...d-violence

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment...en/280004/

http://www.ctpost.com/sports/article/Kev...950151.php

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.c...ug=1941170

http://www.campushealthandsafety.org/aud.../athletes/

http://www.motherjones.com/media/2013/12...is-winston

(01-04-2014 09:47 PM)Alan Levinovitz Wrote:  

(01-03-2014 08:30 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  He doesn't deserve a break. Some of the things he said....he just doesn't deserve anywhere close to a break. Any time you say some garbage like this, there is no break. I say get him the F off the campus.

Quote:Are they willing to stomach endemic sexism and the scourge of campus sexual assault?

Here's the evidence of sexism and higher rates of sexual assault that prompted me to write that line. Read it and get back to me with your own evidence:

http://www.campussafetymagazine.com/Chan...Myths.aspx

http://www.humankinetics.com/excerpts/ex...d-violence

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment...en/280004/

http://www.ctpost.com/sports/article/Kev...950151.php

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.c...ug=1941170

http://www.campushealthandsafety.org/aud.../athletes/

http://www.motherjones.com/media/2013/12...is-winston

So are you ready to go after the Greek system as well? Of course not... Because the Greek system doesn't draw resources from academics, right?

Your argument is academic in nature. It is a good discussion piece, but holds no relevancy. Athletics will remain, and FBS teams generally aren't much bigger than FCS teams. In FCS, scholarships can be split among many players. In FBS, you are fully funded or not at all. Teams aren't bigger in FBS.

Your sexual assault argument is BS. Go after the Greek system with the same vitriol if that's your real motivation.

Be careful though. Greeks and athletes statistically donate a lot more to their alma maters than the average student.

Is this the beginning of a TPI ? Triple Post Ignre
Double post ignre has lived its useful life.

(01-04-2014 10:06 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  

(01-04-2014 09:47 PM)Alan Levinovitz Wrote:  

(01-03-2014 08:30 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  He doesn't deserve a break. Some of the things he said....he just doesn't deserve anywhere close to a break. Any time you say some garbage like this, there is no break. I say get him the F off the campus.

Quote:Are they willing to stomach endemic sexism and the scourge of campus sexual assault?

Here's the evidence of sexism and higher rates of sexual assault that prompted me to write that line. Read it and get back to me with your own evidence:

http://www.campussafetymagazine.com/Chan...Myths.aspx

http://www.humankinetics.com/excerpts/ex...d-violence

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment...en/280004/

http://www.ctpost.com/sports/article/Kev...950151.php

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.c...ug=1941170

http://www.campushealthandsafety.org/aud.../athletes/

http://www.motherjones.com/media/2013/12...is-winston

So are you ready to go after the Greek system as well? Of course not... Because the Greek system doesn't draw resources from academics, right?

Your argument is academic in nature. It is a good discussion piece, but holds no relevancy. Athletics will remain, and FBS teams generally aren't much bigger than FCS teams. In FCS, scholarships can be split among many players. In FBS, you are fully funded or not at all. Teams aren't bigger in FBS.

Your sexual assault argument is BS. Go after the Greek system with the same vitriol if that's your real motivation.

Be careful though. Greeks and athletes statistically donate a lot more to their alma maters than the average student.

If you don't think that sexism and sexual assault happens at higher rates for athletes, then you are just being ignorant so you don't have to change your belief system about football. You're right, the greek system is terrible and one that should be expunged....but athletics (football in particular) play a big part too and to ignore it is ignorant.

(01-04-2014 10:27 PM)jmu@uva Wrote:  

(01-04-2014 10:06 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  

(01-04-2014 09:47 PM)Alan Levinovitz Wrote:  

(01-03-2014 08:30 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  He doesn't deserve a break. Some of the things he said....he just doesn't deserve anywhere close to a break. Any time you say some garbage like this, there is no break. I say get him the F off the campus.

Quote:Are they willing to stomach endemic sexism and the scourge of campus sexual assault?

Here's the evidence of sexism and higher rates of sexual assault that prompted me to write that line. Read it and get back to me with your own evidence:

http://www.campussafetymagazine.com/Chan...Myths.aspx

http://www.humankinetics.com/excerpts/ex...d-violence

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment...en/280004/

http://www.ctpost.com/sports/article/Kev...950151.php

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.c...ug=1941170

http://www.campushealthandsafety.org/aud.../athletes/

http://www.motherjones.com/media/2013/12...is-winston

So are you ready to go after the Greek system as well? Of course not... Because the Greek system doesn't draw resources from academics, right?

Your argument is academic in nature. It is a good discussion piece, but holds no relevancy. Athletics will remain, and FBS teams generally aren't much bigger than FCS teams. In FCS, scholarships can be split among many players. In FBS, you are fully funded or not at all. Teams aren't bigger in FBS.

Your sexual assault argument is BS. Go after the Greek system with the same vitriol if that's your real motivation.

Be careful though. Greeks and athletes statistically donate a lot more to their alma maters than the average student.

If you don't think that sexism and sexual assault happens at higher rates for athletes, then you are just being ignorant so you don't have to change your belief system about football. You're right, the greek system is terrible and one that should be expunged....but athletics (football in particular) play a big part too and to ignore it is ignorant.

While we're at it, lets outlaw the use of alcohol, tobacco, guns, cars, flying, unhealthy foods, sports and any other activities that could result in injury or death. SMH.

Can this thread just die?

(01-04-2014 10:27 PM)jmu@uva Wrote:  

(01-04-2014 10:06 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  

(01-04-2014 09:47 PM)Alan Levinovitz Wrote:  

(01-03-2014 08:30 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  He doesn't deserve a break. Some of the things he said....he just doesn't deserve anywhere close to a break. Any time you say some garbage like this, there is no break. I say get him the F off the campus.

Quote:Are they willing to stomach endemic sexism and the scourge of campus sexual assault?

Here's the evidence of sexism and higher rates of sexual assault that prompted me to write that line. Read it and get back to me with your own evidence:

http://www.campussafetymagazine.com/Chan...Myths.aspx

http://www.humankinetics.com/excerpts/ex...d-violence

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment...en/280004/

http://www.ctpost.com/sports/article/Kev...950151.php

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.c...ug=1941170

http://www.campushealthandsafety.org/aud.../athletes/

http://www.motherjones.com/media/2013/12...is-winston

So are you ready to go after the Greek system as well? Of course not... Because the Greek system doesn't draw resources from academics, right?

Your argument is academic in nature. It is a good discussion piece, but holds no relevancy. Athletics will remain, and FBS teams generally aren't much bigger than FCS teams. In FCS, scholarships can be split among many players. In FBS, you are fully funded or not at all. Teams aren't bigger in FBS.

Your sexual assault argument is BS. Go after the Greek system with the same vitriol if that's your real motivation.

Be careful though. Greeks and athletes statistically donate a lot more to their alma maters than the average student.

If you don't think that sexism and sexual assault happens at higher rates for athletes, then you are just being ignorant so you don't have to change your belief system about football. You're right, the greek system is terrible and one that should be expunged....but athletics (football in particular) play a big part too and to ignore it is ignorant.

You "might" have missed my point.

Anywho...

I really wonder what the true intent was for Mr. Levinovitz's submitting this article for publication. Was it for the sake of research or to undermine or influence his employer?