28-24 (thus far) in his last 4 years
1-4 (thus far) in bowl games
1-5 against Georgia included losing a 20 point lead this year

This is year #6 and there hasn't been any improvement. Someone explain why GT still employs him. Swagger....where are you?? Shed some light on this.

He showed in just two years he could go to the top with just a handful of NFL players Gailey recruited. He beat UGAg his very first year..

However, his recruiting has always been bad. The blame here doesn't rest just on Johnson. The Hill (GT academic administration) has imposed academic restrictions that make it near impossible for GT to compete with the big boys. They have entrance SAT, ACT, and GPA requirements above NCAA and ACC minimums. Everybody has to take calculus regardless of major. Imagine the decimation to the LSU or UGAg roster if they had to take GT level calculus to stay in school. There are no liberal arts majors to hide people in. Liberal Arts gives many BS majors to hide people in. Even Stanford has the "Easy A" list of liberal arts classes ( http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/bl...aaf-331860 ).

Some background behind the GT academic restrictions: O'Leary was granted academic exemptions, but he watched his players like a hawk. He had runners checking up on every player's classes. If you missed a class, O'Leary knew it before the class even ended. When Chan Gailey came in after O'Leary went to Notre Dame, what with all his impressive ZERO years of experience as a major CFB head coach, he kept that NFL hands off approach. With lesser academic players suddenly not being watched, there was a massive flunkout of MANY players in Gailey's first year ("flunkgate"). The Hill dropped the hammer with restrictions thereafter. Gailey was granted precious few exemptions towards the very end of his tenure in '06-'07 recruiting season, and that is where Demaryius Thomas, Morgan Burnett, Derrick Morgan, and all the other stars that defined the '09 Orange Bowl team (and are now NFL starters) came from. Dave Braine, the former AD who came to GT from VT, who hired Beamer at VT, said GT will never again be a consistent 9/10 win team. That statement was obviously not popular with fans, and used heavily against GT in recruiting. But he knew very well the academic situation. Dan Radakovich, former AD, current Clemson AD, got the hell out of dodge after doing nothing but fundraising and building new facilities. His hire of Johnson came out of the Naval Academy being one of maybe 3 programs where the recruiting restrictions are genuinely tougher than GT (Army, Navy, Air Force). At Navy for example, you cannot be over 250 ibs and graduate the academy. Linemen are granted an exemption, but have just 6 months (!!) after the end of their playing career to meet weigh in or they flunk out of the academy. That's even more ridiculous than GT.

I honestly don't know if ANYBODY can make GT a winner with the restrictions. The knock on Johnson had always been his DC hiring. With Roof back that is finally fixed, but sadly it may be too late to matter. I think next year will be his last. Gailey got the axe after 7 win season #5 and consecutive loss to UGAg #6. Johnson just collected 7 win season #4 (if you cancel 8 wins out with 6), and consecutive loss to UGAg #5. I went to the VT game this year. The place was packed. I watched a comedy of errors of like 12 f*cking false starts. GT fans can take losing ... but we CANNOT STAND self destruction. I left so pissed I refused to go to another game that year. After the UGAg implosion, I'm now in full boycott of the GTAA until they fix the football program. I'm not the only one. After VT, attendance imploded down 15,000 and didn't recover (unless you count UGAg fans). This is what will catch up to Johnson. Gailey's last year was marked by 10,000-20,000 empty seats. That is lost revenue of well over $1,000,000 a home game. At that point, it became more expensive to keep Gailey than fire him. The math turned on Paul Johnson after that VT game. And if he doesn't get it turned around, math will be the end of his career too. Oddly, VT seems to be the beginning of the end for GT coaches who slip into endless mediocrity. In Gailey's next to last season, VT blew him out at home ugly and Gailey's don't-drink-and-drive jumbotron commercial got deafening boos. That was the beginning of the end. It would not be surprising if Paul's endless parade of false starts this year against VT was an identical year before beginning of the end moment.

See the academics is where I don't buy it. I see Duke making it to 10 wins. I see Stanford in BCS bowls. I see Vandy being competitive in the SEC. BC appears to be on a better trajectory than GT.

I do believe it has more to do with the style of play. Most of the better athletes that are more academically minded don't want to play the style. It's predicated on you not being prepared for it. So of course teams with bye weeks or the month to prepare in bowl season seem to have the advantage.

I'm sitting here watching this game and it doesn't appear that Ol' Miss' players are that much better. They've figured out the scheme just like most teams have in the past few years.

(12-30-2013 05:36 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  See the academics is where I don't buy it. I see Duke making it to 10 wins. I see Stanford in BCS bowls. I see Vandy being competitive in the SEC. BC appears to be on a better trajectory than GT.

I do believe it has more to do with the style of play. Most of the better athletes that are more academically minded don't want to play the style. It's predicated on you not being prepared for it. So of course teams with bye weeks or the month to prepare in bowl season seem to have the advantage.

Both Duke & Stanford have multiple liberal arts fields for their players to major while tech basically only has a business school for most athletes to major in

(12-30-2013 05:53 PM)mj4life Wrote:  

(12-30-2013 05:36 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  See the academics is where I don't buy it. I see Duke making it to 10 wins. I see Stanford in BCS bowls. I see Vandy being competitive in the SEC. BC appears to be on a better trajectory than GT.

I do believe it has more to do with the style of play. Most of the better athletes that are more academically minded don't want to play the style. It's predicated on you not being prepared for it. So of course teams with bye weeks or the month to prepare in bowl season seem to have the advantage.

Both Duke & Stanford have multiple liberal arts fields for their players to major while tech basically only has a business school for most athletes to major in

This. Let me say this again to be clear ... LIBERAL ARTS DOESN'T EXIST AT GEORGIA TECH. The liberal arts school became Georgia State. And if you're cynical, the Georgia Board of Regents which is dominated by UGAg made that move to split liberal arts off into Georgia State for a reason. And just a few years ago, the GABOR gave UGAg an Engineering School. As far as I'm concerned all bets are off after that happened. GT should move to become private or bring Georgia State back in as the GT Liberal Arts College.

You're missing my point. I watch the games. There's not that much difference the talent levels (unless it's Clemson, FSU, most years UGA) Teams have figured out the schemes and how to prepare for it.

This is year #6 so at this point there should be some upward trajectory.

That play call is why PJ should be fired.

(12-30-2013 06:10 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  You're missing my point. I watch the games. There's not that much difference the talent levels (unless it's Clemson, FSU, most years UGA) Teams have figured out the schemes and how to prepare for it.

This is year #6 so at this point there should be some upward trajectory.

Not much difference????? Our OL routinely gets blown the hell up! Attaouchu and Gotsis are the only people who ever get a consistent pass rush. There is nobody on the roster capable of being a consistent passer even on slants and midrange garbage. Despite having twice as many running backs as a typical roster, Godhigh (a WALK ON) is the only guy who could see significant playing time on just about any other ACC roster. The disparity is staggering!

(12-30-2013 06:18 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  That play call is why PJ should be fired.

Who do you have in your cubbard who could go to GT with all the restrictions and out-recruit the SEC and ACC powers, beat Clemson, beat UGAg, beat VT, beat FSU, and beat Miami?

I only have maybe 3 candidates, and NONE are obvious homeruns. So I'd love to know who you have in mind.

You don't have to consistently beat FSU. You're not in the same division. You already know you are competitive with VT. Most of the games are close. You lost a 20 point lead to UGA last month.

I expect GT to be a 8-9 win team each year..not a 6-7 win team each year. That difference is coaching.

As for who can take PJ's place...Ralph Friedgen

(12-30-2013 06:21 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(12-30-2013 06:10 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  You're missing my point. I watch the games. There's not that much difference the talent levels (unless it's Clemson, FSU, most years UGA) Teams have figured out the schemes and how to prepare for it.

This is year #6 so at this point there should be some upward trajectory.

Not much difference????? Our OL routinely gets blown the hell up! Attaouchu and Gotsis are the only people who ever get a consistent pass rush. There is nobody on the roster capable of being a consistent passer even on slants and midrange garbage. Despite having twice as many running backs as a typical roster, Godhigh (a WALK ON) is the only guy who could see significant playing time on just about any other ACC roster. The disparity is staggering!

Your line gets blown up because the defense knows the schemes. It's the triple option. You have a month to prepare for it that's what's going to happen.

(12-30-2013 06:28 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  You don't have to consistently beat FSU. You're not in the same division. You already know you are competitive with VT. Most of the games are close. You lost a 20 point lead to UGA last month.

I expect GT to be a 8-9 win team each year..not a 6-7 win team each year. That difference is coaching.

As for who can take PJ's place...Ralph Friedgen

Ralph and O'Leary are a package deal. They proved together they are outstanding. Separated not so much.

(12-30-2013 06:29 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  Your line gets blown up because the defense knows the schemes. It's the triple option. You have a month to prepare for it that's what's going to happen.

Do you think the triple option is blocked some unique way you never see anywhere else? It's the same blocking schemes you see in every other run game ... stunts, pulls, kick outs, etc. The most glaring place the disparity is obvious is straight man-on-man pass blocking. Vad Lee almost never can complete a 3 step drop without somebody being a few steps away.

Triple option is more effective when you don't have time to prepare. That's why PJ is 1-5 in bowl games including losses to Air Force and Utah. I watched Mid Tenn St blow this team up last year. BYU has blown it up 2 years in a row. There's just no excuse for some of the play calling.

Judging by the largely venomous reaction so far, it seems the this game is another big shift in the fan base. The VT game pushed me and many others from the fence to boycott. UGAg did a lot more damage. I suspect that largely garbage performance after this season is going to cost GT a solid 2,500 to 5,000 season tickets. It is going to be ugly attendance figures next year. Clemson will be the only home sellout ... and I expect it to be a solid 12,500 Clemson fans making that happen. Duke and Virginia will be at least 15,000 below capacity. Miami and Georgia Southern will be 10,000 below capacity. Wofford may be approaching 20,000 below capacity.

I feel your pain Swag. I actually root for GT quite often so this mediocrity is frustrating, especially since I believe they can be better.

(12-30-2013 06:00 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  ...if you're cynical, the Georgia Board of Regents which is dominated by UGAg made that move to split liberal arts off into Georgia State for a reason. And just a few years ago, the GABOR gave UGAg an Engineering School. As far as I'm concerned all bets are off after that happened. GT should move to become private or bring Georgia State back in as the GT Liberal Arts College.

BINGO, though I'd flip-flop those 2 options:
1) see if you can essentially recombine Ga State with Ga Tech, or
2) go private and then do what you want.

It just seems like UGa is trying to sabotage Ga Tech athletics through political maneuvering.

I was thinking the same thing about London at UVA. No recruiting class is worth how bad UVA has become during his tenure. 2-10 and 0-8 in conference.... what am I missing??

(12-30-2013 10:11 PM)ACCslater Wrote:  I was thinking the same thing about London at UVA. No recruiting class is worth how bad UVA has become during his tenure. 2-10 and 0-8 in conference.... what am I missing??

You're missing the expense of his buy out clause and how much it decreases with another year.

Sometimes you have to live with a bad hire longer than you would wish. Especially if it leaves you in better shape to make a quality replacement.

See Wake Forest basketball and Jeff Bzdelik.

Ugly stats are ugly.