Prior to 1991 the conference included Georgia Tech, St Louis, Cincinnati, Memphis, Louisville, Tulane, Florida State, Virginia Tech, Southern Miss and South Carolina. Georgia Tech left in 79. St Louis Left in 82.

Some very good football and basketball teams in that list. FSU, GT and SC field very good baseball teams. I don't know if they would have progressed to where they are today but, if the Metro had remained intact, it would be a very strong conference.

$$$

HTH

The Metro did not sponsor football. Also, they did not equally share revenue. There were discussions about correcting these two weaknesses in the late 80s, but rumor has it that Louisville objected to sharing basketball revenue and FSU objected to sharing football revenue.

The breakdown of these talks (which may or may not have been very serious) led SC to accept a bid to the SEC and FSU to accept a bid to the ACC. After this, UC, Memphis, and SLU left to form the Great Midwest along with Dayton, Depaul, Marquette, and UAB. The remaining schools added Charlotte, VCU, and USF.

The death knell was when Virginia Tech left for the Big East 2 years later. The remaining schools merged with the Great Midwest to form C-USA (although Dayton and VCU chose to look elsewhere at this point).

Metro had a great expansion plan, BosColl, Pitt, Syc & EastCar for FB only
Temple, Mia, Rutgers & WestVa for allsports
to join, Louv, Cin, Memphis, FSU, SoCar, VT, SoMiss & Tulane

FSU - that is what happened.

(12-30-2013 02:42 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  The Metro did not sponsor football. Also, they did not equally share revenue. There were discussions about correcting these two weaknesses in the late 80s, but rumor has it that Louisville objected to sharing basketball revenue and FSU objected to sharing football revenue.

The breakdown of these talks (which may or may not have been very serious) led SC to accept a bid to the SEC and FSU to accept a bid to the ACC. After this, UC, Memphis, and SLU left to form the Great Midwest along with Dayton, Depaul, Marquette, and UAB. The remaining schools added Charlotte, VCU, and USF.

The death knell was when Virginia Tech left for the Big East 2 years later. The remaining schools merged with the Great Midwest to form C-USA (although Dayton and VCU chose to look elsewhere at this point).

Mostly correct, but Va. Tech, VCU and Dayton were not invited to C-USA, Tech because it was understood they were looking for an all-sports home that included football, VCU and Dayton because there was no room at the inn. Tech was invited to the Big East as a football-only member, but joined Dayton as new A-10 members while VCU fell to the CAA.

(12-30-2013 04:03 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Mostly correct, but Va. Tech, VCU and Dayton were not invited to C-USA, Tech because it was understood they were looking for an all-sports home that included football, VCU and Dayton because there was no room at the inn. Tech was invited to the Big East as a football-only member, but joined Dayton as new A-10 members while VCU fell to the CAA.

C-USA would've been happy to accept Virginia Tech for all-sports, but they were only willing to join for non-football. C-USA (properly in my opinion) said no thanks to that.

Dayton and VCU were treated very shabbily by C-USA. Other non-football schools were invited; there was no good reason to leave them out. Can't say for sure, but I've heard that VCU looks skeptically on the idea of joining AAC because of bitter memories. Very understandable, if true.

(12-30-2013 07:09 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(12-30-2013 04:03 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Mostly correct, but Va. Tech, VCU and Dayton were not invited to C-USA, Tech because it was understood they were looking for an all-sports home that included football, VCU and Dayton because there was no room at the inn. Tech was invited to the Big East as a football-only member, but joined Dayton as new A-10 members while VCU fell to the CAA.

C-USA would've been happy to accept Virginia Tech for all-sports, but they were only willing to join for non-football. C-USA (properly in my opinion) said no thanks to that.

Dayton and VCU were treated very shabbily by C-USA. Other non-football schools were invited; there was no good reason to leave them out. Can't say for sure, but I've heard that VCU looks skeptically on the idea of joining AAC because of bitter memories. Very understandable, if true.

Would make sense to say no to VT if they weren't bringing their football along, which was an emerging power but far from a top 10 regular back then. Not sure why they wouldn't have taken Dayton and VCU to go to 14, unless they were just so enamored with their four-team Red, White and Blue divisions that the couldn't bear to mess with them

(12-30-2013 09:00 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Not sure why they wouldn't have taken Dayton and VCU to go to 14, unless they were just so enamored with their four-team Red, White and Blue divisions that the couldn't bear to mess with them

Conference USA has changed so much over the past 19 years, that it's worth looking back to remember who the original charter members were when the league was announced back in 1995:

(All-Sports)
Cincinnati
Louisville
Memphis
Southern Miss
Tulane

(non-football)
Charlotte
DePaul
Marquette
Saint Louis
South Florida
UAB

Those 11 simply believed that Dayton and VCU were beneath them. And Virginia Tech believed that those 11 were beneath them.

(12-30-2013 09:46 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(12-30-2013 09:00 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Not sure why they wouldn't have taken Dayton and VCU to go to 14, unless they were just so enamored with their four-team Red, White and Blue divisions that the couldn't bear to mess with them

Conference USA has changed so much over the past 19 years, that it's worth looking back to remember who the original charter members were when the league was announced back in 1995:

(All-Sports)
Cincinnati
Louisville
Memphis
Southern Miss
Tulane

(non-football)
Charlotte
DePaul
Marquette
Saint Louis
South Florida
UAB

Those 11 simply believed that Dayton and VCU were beneath them. And Virginia Tech believed that those 11 were beneath them.

Oh yeah, I forgot that Houston wasn't invited until a couple months later.

As a VCU student, I didn't understand why UNC Charlotte and South Florida were considered so much more desirable (USF was in the process of starting football, but they didn't go I-A until 2001 and didn't join C-USA in that sport until 2003). I guess I got that USF was in a rapid-growth sector so that made sense, but UNCC and VCU were pretty similar, so sending one off to the conference of Louisville, Memphis and Cincinnati while sending the other off to the likes of American, William & Mary and UNC Wilmington was puzzling.

16 years later, I guess it worked out eventually.

(12-30-2013 09:50 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(12-30-2013 09:46 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  Conference USA has changed so much over the past 19 years, that it's worth looking back to remember who the original charter members were when the league was announced back in 1995:

(All-Sports)
Cincinnati
Louisville
Memphis
Southern Miss
Tulane

(non-football)
Charlotte
DePaul
Marquette
Saint Louis
South Florida
UAB

Oh yeah, I forgot that Houston wasn't invited until a couple months later.

I forget how everything was arranged in public. But in private reality, everyone involved understood that Houston was going to join as soon as the SWC officially turned out the lights. Maybe there was a legal reason to not make a formal announcement of that fact at first. But there was never any question that UH was joining. A sixth football member was crucial.

(12-30-2013 02:20 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  Prior to 1991 the conference included Georgia Tech, St Louis, Cincinnati, Memphis, Louisville, Tulane, Florida State, Virginia Tech, Southern Miss and South Carolina. Georgia Tech left in 79. St Louis Left in 82.

Some very good football and basketball teams in that list. FSU, GT and SC field very good baseball teams. I don't know if they would have progressed to where they are today but, if the Metro had remained intact, it would be a very strong conference.

There was a traitor among them, or Yoko Ono.

(12-30-2013 10:27 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(12-30-2013 02:20 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  Prior to 1991 the conference included Georgia Tech, St Louis, Cincinnati, Memphis, Louisville, Tulane, Florida State, Virginia Tech, Southern Miss and South Carolina. Georgia Tech left in 79. St Louis Left in 82.

Some very good football and basketball teams in that list. FSU, GT and SC field very good baseball teams. I don't know if they would have progressed to where they are today but, if the Metro had remained intact, it would be a very strong conference.

There was a traitor among them, or Yoko Ono.

The basic gist is that Florida State did not want to be in a football conference until 3 things happened: Notre Dame signed their first contract with NBC, Penn State joined the B1G, and the SEC indicated that it wanted to expand from its then-base of 10 schools. The combined weight of those events made it clear that the days of staying Independent in football were coming to an end for everyone except Notre Dame and Army/Navy. At that point, FSU looked around and realized it could make more $$$ in the SEC or ACC than a football-version of the Metro. And it selected the ACC because it wanted to be the Big Dog on its block, and not have to worry about going 7-5 in a down year. People forget now, but FSU absolutely dominated ACC football for about 10 years after joining. That wouldn't have happened if they had to deal with the usual suspects in the SEC.

(12-30-2013 10:37 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(12-30-2013 10:27 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(12-30-2013 02:20 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  Prior to 1991 the conference included Georgia Tech, St Louis, Cincinnati, Memphis, Louisville, Tulane, Florida State, Virginia Tech, Southern Miss and South Carolina. Georgia Tech left in 79. St Louis Left in 82.

Some very good football and basketball teams in that list. FSU, GT and SC field very good baseball teams. I don't know if they would have progressed to where they are today but, if the Metro had remained intact, it would be a very strong conference.

There was a traitor among them, or Yoko Ono.

The basic gist is that Florida State did not want to be in a football conference until 3 things happened: Notre Dame signed their first contract with NBC, Penn State joined the B1G, and the SEC indicated that it wanted to expand from its then-base of 10 schools. The combined weight of those events made it clear that the days of staying Independent in football were coming to an end for everyone except Notre Dame and Army/Navy. At that point, FSU looked around and realized it could make more $$$ in the SEC or ACC than a football-version of the Metro. And it selected the ACC because it wanted to be the Big Dog on its block, and not have to worry about going 7-5 in a down year. People forget now, but FSU absolutely dominated ACC football for about 10 years after joining. That wouldn't have happened if they had to deal with the usual suspects in the SEC.

Bobby Bowden wanted the ACC over the SEC and made sure it happened. He wanted the best shot at getting himself the all-time I-A record for coaching wins.

(12-30-2013 10:01 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(12-30-2013 09:50 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(12-30-2013 09:46 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  Conference USA has changed so much over the past 19 years, that it's worth looking back to remember who the original charter members were when the league was announced back in 1995:

(All-Sports)
Cincinnati
Louisville
Memphis
Southern Miss
Tulane

(non-football)
Charlotte
DePaul
Marquette
Saint Louis
South Florida
UAB

Oh yeah, I forgot that Houston wasn't invited until a couple months later.

I forget how everything was arranged in public. But in private reality, everyone involved understood that Houston was going to join as soon as the SWC officially turned out the lights. Maybe there was a legal reason to not make a formal announcement of that fact at first. But there was never any question that UH was joining. A sixth football member was crucial.

If I remember correctly, it was announced and official. Houston jut couldn't come until the SWC finished its final season. It was no different than Louisville or Rutgers this year. It was wierd becuase i was under the impression that you needed 8 football teams to have a conference. I never liked the move. I preferred that the SWC be rebuilt--but apparently nobody had enough leadership ability to do that. My second choice was to stick with the other remaining SWC schools and move to the WAC. The CUSA option was my least preferred option. Nothing against the schools involved---I just preferred the idea of keeping some old SWC foes around.

You only need 6 for a football conference then and they didn't even have to be members in other sports. Eight full members playing football was expected (hoped) to kill the Sun Belt when it was adopted. The Sun Belt started with 7 members but only 5 were full members then it was 8 members with 5 full. When the rule was adopted the league added Troy as a full member (had been playing as an indy in football) and Idaho and Utah State. When the WAC added USU and NMSU the Sun Belt moved ULM from football only to full member, convinced then non-football FIU to accelerate their move to FBS and added FAU as a full member which gave enough schools even with Idaho eventually getting a WAC invite before entering as a full member.

(12-30-2013 10:37 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(12-30-2013 10:27 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(12-30-2013 02:20 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  Prior to 1991 the conference included Georgia Tech, St Louis, Cincinnati, Memphis, Louisville, Tulane, Florida State, Virginia Tech, Southern Miss and South Carolina. Georgia Tech left in 79. St Louis Left in 82.

Some very good football and basketball teams in that list. FSU, GT and SC field very good baseball teams. I don't know if they would have progressed to where they are today but, if the Metro had remained intact, it would be a very strong conference.

There was a traitor among them, or Yoko Ono.

The basic gist is that Florida State did not want to be in a football conference until 3 things happened: Notre Dame signed their first contract with NBC, Penn State joined the B1G, and the SEC indicated that it wanted to expand from its then-base of 10 schools. The combined weight of those events made it clear that the days of staying Independent in football were coming to an end for everyone except Notre Dame and Army/Navy. At that point, FSU looked around and realized it could make more $$$ in the SEC or ACC than a football-version of the Metro. And it selected the ACC because it wanted to be the Big Dog on its block, and not have to worry about going 7-5 in a down year. People forget now, but FSU absolutely dominated ACC football for about 10 years after joining. That wouldn't have happened if they had to deal with the usual suspects in the SEC.

(12-30-2013 10:45 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-30-2013 10:37 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(12-30-2013 10:27 PM)ArQ Wrote:  

(12-30-2013 02:20 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  Prior to 1991 the conference included Georgia Tech, St Louis, Cincinnati, Memphis, Louisville, Tulane, Florida State, Virginia Tech, Southern Miss and South Carolina. Georgia Tech left in 79. St Louis Left in 82.

Some very good football and basketball teams in that list. FSU, GT and SC field very good baseball teams. I don't know if they would have progressed to where they are today but, if the Metro had remained intact, it would be a very strong conference.

There was a traitor among them, or Yoko Ono.

The basic gist is that Florida State did not want to be in a football conference until 3 things happened: Notre Dame signed their first contract with NBC, Penn State joined the B1G, and the SEC indicated that it wanted to expand from its then-base of 10 schools. The combined weight of those events made it clear that the days of staying Independent in football were coming to an end for everyone except Notre Dame and Army/Navy. At that point, FSU looked around and realized it could make more $$$ in the SEC or ACC than a football-version of the Metro. And it selected the ACC because it wanted to be the Big Dog on its block, and not have to worry about going 7-5 in a down year. People forget now, but FSU absolutely dominated ACC football for about 10 years after joining. That wouldn't have happened if they had to deal with the usual suspects in the SEC.

Bobby Bowden wanted the ACC over the SEC and made sure it happened. He wanted the best shot at getting himself the all-time I-A record for coaching wins.

Revisionist history.

When FSU agreed to join the ACC Clemson was at the tail end of a string of four straight 10 win season that included wins over Penn State, Oklahoma, UGA, and FSU. While we had just ran off Danny Ford we had hired Ken Hatfield who had won 48 games with two SWC titles in the five years prior. Unless FSU had the world's best fortune teller they wouldn't have had any idea that Clemson would simply fall off the map.

Good read on FSU's decision to join the ACC over the SEC ten years after the fact. Bowden actually wanted to join the SEC initially, as did many at FSU. The FSU AD wanted the ACC and he and the reps of the ACC won them over eventually, however.

http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/storie...60687.html

While conference affiliation would impact FSU's entire athletic program, suggesting that football was anything less than a major factor in expansion talk would be naive. So while Bowden was not directly involved in the decision, his support was critical in the process.

Not surprisingly, the Birmingham born-and-raised Seminoles coach -- who spent one year as a quarterback at Alabama -- said the SEC was "emotionally" his first choice. Even so, he carefully weighed all options.

"I was probably involved just about as much as anybody in that I agreed to [the ACC]," Bowden said. "I think if I would have wanted to fight for the SEC it might have caused some concerns for everybody, but I didn't feel that way.

"When you started looking at it from a financial perspective and what's best for us, I felt pretty sure what we should do is go ahead and join the ACC. ... Bob [Goin] had it laid out pretty good. I'll be honest with you, it was a no-brainer."

Haggard, like many on the advisory committee, valued Bowden's view on the choice of conference.

"Bobby was totally SEC when it started," Haggard said. "As Bobby's thinking changed, our thinking changed. It ended up unanimous ACC."

By the time a contingent of ACC school and league officials made their Sept. 2 tour of FSU's campus, the league had already made substantial gains on the SEC's initial foothold. Finances, football and basketball prowess aside, the ACC's overall image -- specifically its academic reputation -- had left a strong impression.

"More people here wanted the ACC; that's what really changed me," Sliger said. "The faculty really wanted the ACC. There were very few [faculty members] that had gone to the SEC, but many of them had gone to North Carolina and Virginia, places like that."

These schools are going to have to adapt to the new reality that conferences may not be long term commitments after all.

(12-31-2013 01:15 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  These schools are going to have to adapt to the new reality that conferences may not be long term commitments after all.

There has actually been very little stability in most of Division I at any time. Every time the marketplace changes, leagues change, the irony is over time you see the same groups of schools clumping together over and over.