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g5 playoff vs bowl games.
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cleburneslim Offline
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Post: #1
g5 playoff vs bowl games.
I was thinking a playoff from g5 schools only to get a representative for fbs playoff spot.
Lends interest nd gives meaning to lesser bowl games maybe generate larger following and gives teams a shot at something more than a pity bowl.

Any thoughts?
(This post was last modified: 12-29-2013 07:09 PM by cleburneslim.)
12-29-2013 07:07 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #2
RE: g5 playoff vs bowl games.
The Go5 schools aren't getting a representative in the FBS playoff spot, unless that school happens to be highly enough ranked to be picked as one of the four, so playing off for a non-existent spot wouldn't have much appeal.
12-29-2013 07:14 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #3
RE: g5 playoff vs bowl games.
The new format means the G5 may as well be FCS teams. It sucks but its the truth.
12-29-2013 07:20 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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RE: g5 playoff vs bowl games.
(12-29-2013 07:20 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  The new format means the G5 may as well be FCS teams. It sucks but its the truth.
You mean in that they have a faint hope of getting into the playoff versus no hope under the current system, and a guaranteed spot in a big bowl versus the "spot if you get this BCS ranking, or that BCS rank and better than an AQ champion" like the current system?
12-29-2013 07:26 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #5
RE: g5 playoff vs bowl games.
(12-29-2013 07:26 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(12-29-2013 07:20 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  The new format means the G5 may as well be FCS teams. It sucks but its the truth.
You mean in that they have a faint hope of getting into the playoff versus no hope under the current system, and a guaranteed spot in a big bowl versus the "spot if you get this BCS ranking, or that BCS rank and better than an AQ champion" like the current system?

If the new system had used the same formula as we have now there would be a better shot at being in the top four than now where a committee will never let a G5 school in.

It's less likely than ever that you'll see a G5 school in the big games now.
12-29-2013 07:28 PM
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cleburneslim Offline
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RE: g5 playoff vs bowl games.
Just speaking in theory. Something to demand when the official split comes.
12-29-2013 07:30 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #7
RE: g5 playoff vs bowl games.
Under the current system there is zero value in a G5 playoff. Where I can see value is for the G5 to band together to create 3 mid-tier quality games for their 5 G5 champs. We made a horrible mistake creating bottom tier bowls like Miami and Boca.

What I envision is 3 new mid-tier bowls that would be created and owned by the G5 as a group. Each bowl would paying each G5 participate 1 million plus a 25% share of the profits from the bowl they actually play in. The bowls would pay P-5 participants 2.5 million each. The money to fund the bowls (9 million) would initially come from the 85 million dollar fund that is being split by the G5 from the new college playoff. Hopefully, these bowls would cover their costs and be self funding after the first year. In the future, the G5 would split any profit remaining after the participating teams are paid their cut and all expenses are paid.

In order to work, the G5 champions would need to commit to "The Challenger Bowl Championship Series". The CBCS would be filled as follows--

#1 G5 Champ---(if not in playoff) plays in BCS vs high ranking G5 team

#2 G5 Champ--plays in #1 Challenger Bowl vs a #3-4 from a P5 (whatever 2.5 million will buy you).

#3 G5 Champ--plays in #2 Challenger Bowl vs a #3/4 from a P5 conference (whatever 2.5 million will buy you)

#4 and #5 G5 Champs---play against each other in the #3 Challenger Bowl.

These bowl would offer low ticket allotments and minimal occupancy requirements. They would be an AD's dream. With good payouts and low expenses, they would be very attractive to P-5 conferences. The purpose of these bowls is not to make a fortune---but to create a quality landing spot for each G5 champ. The idea is for a G5 championship to mean something and to have a quality reward every year. If they make money--great (and they probably would make money by the way). But as long as they just come close to breaking even, the 9 million dollars a year used from the G5 share of BCS money can be returned to the G5 payout pool and spit among us. In other words, the plan should cost the G5 next to nothing while adding 2 upper mid-tier payouts to the P5 roster of bowls.
(This post was last modified: 12-29-2013 07:51 PM by Attackcoog.)
12-29-2013 07:44 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #8
RE: g5 playoff vs bowl games.
(12-29-2013 07:28 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  If the new system had used the same formula as we have now there would be a better shot at being in the top four than now where a committee will never let a G5 school in.
Compare actual systems, not "would have been" systems. There is, in the current BCS system, essentially 0.0% chance that a Go5 school would be picked to be in the NCG. The school could be 1st in the computer rankings, and the two polls would place them where they would end up 3rd in the BCS. There's a faint chance that an undefeated Go5 champion including upset wins over ranked opposition might make it into the CFP. More importantly, every year there will be a Go5 school in the set of six big bowls.

Quote: It's less likely than ever that you'll see a G5 school in the big games now.
Its guaranteed that there will be one Go5 school in one of the six big bowl games every year. That's a step up from the 12th & 16th BCS ranking qualifier that was in place before, which itself was a step up from the "take your chances on an at-large bid against big brand name schools" that was in place before.

(12-29-2013 07:30 PM)cleburneslim Wrote:  Just speaking in theory. Something to demand when the official split comes.
If they take the CFP to eight games, the thing to demand is that there is a path for the best Go5 champion to be among the eight.
(This post was last modified: 12-29-2013 08:29 PM by BruceMcF.)
12-29-2013 08:26 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #9
RE: g5 playoff vs bowl games.
(12-29-2013 08:26 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(12-29-2013 07:28 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  If the new system had used the same formula as we have now there would be a better shot at being in the top four than now where a committee will never let a G5 school in.
Compare actual systems, not "would have been" systems. There is, in the current BCS system, essentially 0.0% chance that a Go5 school would be picked to be in the NCG. The school could be 1st in the computer rankings, and the two polls would place them where they would end up 3rd in the BCS. There's a faint chance that an undefeated Go5 champion including upset wins over ranked opposition might make it into the CFP. More importantly, every year there will be a Go5 school in the set of six big bowls.

Quote: It's less likely than ever that you'll see a G5 school in the big games now.
Its guaranteed that there will be one Go5 school in one of the six big bowl games every year. That's a step up from the 12th & 16th BCS ranking qualifier that was in place before, which itself was a step up from the "take your chances on an at-large bid against big brand name schools" that was in place before.

Are you talking about playing for a NC and being in the four team playoff or just getting a decent bowl?

A G5 team will be an even longer shot to make the top 4 now with the committee than to be 12-16 and get into one of the top bowls.
12-29-2013 08:30 PM
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cleburneslim Offline
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Post: #10
RE: g5 playoff vs bowl games.
These meeting will begin in jan. Demands made after that would be useless.
(This post was last modified: 12-29-2013 08:36 PM by cleburneslim.)
12-29-2013 08:35 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #11
RE: g5 playoff vs bowl games.
(12-29-2013 08:30 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  A G5 team will be an even longer shot to make the top 4 now with the committee than to be 12-16 and get into one of the top bowls.
But a Go5 school will no longer need to be 12-16 to get into one of the six big bowls ~ the best Go5 school gets a spot, no matter what their ranking.

That's the apples and oranges comparison ~ the comparison of the CFP is with the two-team NCG, and there is at present no chance of a Go5 school getting into the two-team NCG ... so its impossible to be a longer shot than that with the four team CFP.
12-29-2013 08:35 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #12
RE: g5 playoff vs bowl games.
(12-29-2013 08:35 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(12-29-2013 08:30 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  A G5 team will be an even longer shot to make the top 4 now with the committee than to be 12-16 and get into one of the top bowls.
But a Go5 school will no longer need to be 12-16 to get into one of the six big bowls ~ the best Go5 school gets a spot, no matter what their ranking.

That's the apples and oranges comparison ~ the comparison of the CFP is with the two-team NCG, and there is at present no chance of a Go5 school getting into the two-team NCG ... so its impossible to be a longer shot than that with the four team CFP.

Enter the committee... It is apples to oranges but because the ranking systems between the two aren't equal like I said.

The committee will always be against a G5 school; we all know that.
12-29-2013 08:39 PM
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MWC Tex Offline
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Post: #13
RE: g5 playoff vs bowl games.
(12-29-2013 08:26 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(12-29-2013 07:28 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  If the new system had used the same formula as we have now there would be a better shot at being in the top four than now where a committee will never let a G5 school in.
Compare actual systems, not "would have been" systems. There is, in the current BCS system, essentially 0.0% chance that a Go5 school would be picked to be in the NCG. The school could be 1st in the computer rankings, and the two polls would place them where they would end up 3rd in the BCS. There's a faint chance that an undefeated Go5 champion including upset wins over ranked opposition might make it into the CFP. More importantly, every year there will be a Go5 school in the set of six big bowls.

Quote: It's less likely than ever that you'll see a G5 school in the big games now.
Its guaranteed that there will be one Go5 school in one of the six big bowl games every year. That's a step up from the 12th & 16th BCS ranking qualifier that was in place before, which itself was a step up from the "take your chances on an at-large bid against big brand name schools" that was in place before.

(12-29-2013 07:30 PM)cleburneslim Wrote:  Just speaking in theory. Something to demand when the official split comes.
If they take the CFP to eight games, the thing to demand is that there is a path for the best Go5 champion to be among the eight.

I agree with your points. Expanding to 8 teams gives the Go5 champ a better shot to make in the top 8. BSU and TCU/Utah both proved it can reach that high being in the WAC and MW.
But, I definitely agree that this setup is better than the current. I may be biased as a fan of the MW, I know they will get that spot more often than not base on past history. I am not complaining as I'm just glad a playoff finally got established in the FBS level.
12-29-2013 09:53 PM
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cleburneslim Offline
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Post: #14
RE: g5 playoff vs bowl games.
I believe the g5 should start thinking about what they will do separate of the p5. I think that's what the p5 is doing figuring out how to get along without the g5.
12-29-2013 10:19 PM
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RE: g5 playoff vs bowl games.
(12-29-2013 09:53 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(12-29-2013 08:26 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(12-29-2013 07:28 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  If the new system had used the same formula as we have now there would be a better shot at being in the top four than now where a committee will never let a G5 school in.
Compare actual systems, not "would have been" systems. There is, in the current BCS system, essentially 0.0% chance that a Go5 school would be picked to be in the NCG. The school could be 1st in the computer rankings, and the two polls would place them where they would end up 3rd in the BCS. There's a faint chance that an undefeated Go5 champion including upset wins over ranked opposition might make it into the CFP. More importantly, every year there will be a Go5 school in the set of six big bowls.

Quote: It's less likely than ever that you'll see a G5 school in the big games now.
Its guaranteed that there will be one Go5 school in one of the six big bowl games every year. That's a step up from the 12th & 16th BCS ranking qualifier that was in place before, which itself was a step up from the "take your chances on an at-large bid against big brand name schools" that was in place before.

(12-29-2013 07:30 PM)cleburneslim Wrote:  Just speaking in theory. Something to demand when the official split comes.
If they take the CFP to eight games, the thing to demand is that there is a path for the best Go5 champion to be among the eight.

I agree with your points. Expanding to 8 teams gives the Go5 champ a better shot to make in the top 8. BSU and TCU/Utah both proved it can reach that high being in the WAC and MW.
But, I definitely agree that this setup is better than the current. I may be biased as a fan of the MW, I know they will get that spot more often than not base on past history. I am not complaining as I'm just glad a playoff finally got established in the FBS level.

I also agree. Although the money gap between the P5 and G5 conferences continues to grow, the new setup does put the G5 in a marginally better position with respect to postseason competition.

My main concern is what happens when the CFP expands from 4 to 8 teams, which I think will happen sooner than later. I expect the P5 to push for a format that guarantees playoff berths to each of the P5 champions and allows a committee to pick 3 at-large participants. I think this would hurt the G5 because it would allow P5 champions that aren't among the top 8 teams in the country to take playoff spots away from G5 teams that finish in the top 8. The best outcome for the G5 would be a playoff that takes the top 8 teams regardless of conference affiliation.
(This post was last modified: 12-30-2013 02:41 AM by HawaiiMongoose.)
12-29-2013 11:09 PM
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Cnelson203 Offline
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Post: #16
RE: g5 playoff vs bowl games.
(12-29-2013 07:44 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Under the current system there is zero value in a G5 playoff. Where I can see value is for the G5 to band together to create 3 mid-tier quality games for their 5 G5 champs. We made a horrible mistake creating bottom tier bowls like Miami and Boca.

What I envision is 3 new mid-tier bowls that would be created and owned by the G5 as a group. Each bowl would paying each G5 participate 1 million plus a 25% share of the profits from the bowl they actually play in. The bowls would pay P-5 participants 2.5 million each. The money to fund the bowls (9 million) would initially come from the 85 million dollar fund that is being split by the G5 from the new college playoff. Hopefully, these bowls would cover their costs and be self funding after the first year. In the future, the G5 would split any profit remaining after the participating teams are paid their cut and all expenses are paid.

In order to work, the G5 champions would need to commit to "The Challenger Bowl Championship Series". The CBCS would be filled as follows--

#1 G5 Champ---(if not in playoff) plays in BCS vs high ranking G5 team

#2 G5 Champ--plays in #1 Challenger Bowl vs a #3-4 from a P5 (whatever 2.5 million will buy you).

#3 G5 Champ--plays in #2 Challenger Bowl vs a #3/4 from a P5 conference (whatever 2.5 million will buy you)

#4 and #5 G5 Champs---play against each other in the #3 Challenger Bowl.

These bowl would offer low ticket allotments and minimal occupancy requirements. They would be an AD's dream. With good payouts and low expenses, they would be very attractive to P-5 conferences. The purpose of these bowls is not to make a fortune---but to create a quality landing spot for each G5 champ. The idea is for a G5 championship to mean something and to have a quality reward every year. If they make money--great (and they probably would make money by the way). But as long as they just come close to breaking even, the 9 million dollars a year used from the G5 share of BCS money can be returned to the G5 payout pool and spit among us. In other words, the plan should cost the G5 next to nothing while adding 2 upper mid-tier payouts to the P5 roster of bowls.

I actually like this concept, particularly if you could move the Challenger Bowls around to take advantage of as much regionalization as you could for fan support.
12-29-2013 11:50 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #17
RE: g5 playoff vs bowl games.
(12-29-2013 10:19 PM)cleburneslim Wrote:  I believe the g5 should start thinking about what they will do separate of the p5. I think that's what the p5 is doing figuring out how to get along without the g5.

Why? If it gets to that there is no real future for the G5. Essentially the G5 becomes the new FCS. TV value would plunge, ticket sales would plummet, donations would collapse.

Cost cutting would ensue. Some programs would shut down, some would to FCS, and the rest would create tiny very regional conferences that cut cost and have little tv value. You don't need to plan for that--it wil just happen.
12-29-2013 11:56 PM
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